Kosovo

[Ike]

With this poor you have compared "greece with other country of balkan". For poor what "mean"?

No, that's was not a comparison. Why would I do that? It is totally pointless, and has nothing to do with this conversation.

And then what did you mean before the empire turkish? Do you fish?

Exactly what was writtem. Before Turkish empire. That's precise enough.

OMG! For latin culture is mean "language". Albanian language is the only with a majority words (for words i means latin culture) latin.

I thought those were loanwords.

For prove? This a prove, just with a latin culture have confirmed albanian stay in balkan for of slavs.The latin culture where thay have take? obviously to settlements romanian.

Don't understand you. Try again.

This is just the answer what you mean "for slavs".

Maybe it is, but this is not Slavic thread. Go there and tell them that. For now, this adheres to Albanians.

Is have just said, don't is a game. For prove? Yea, the latin culture.

What does Latin culture has to do with Kosovars?

For linguistic is connected to roman empire (majority of words latin in albanian language).The lost of culture is normal in a under empire, french are celtics, but they don't show a celtics culture, they show a latin culture.

So, what is the idea? Dude, explain yourself? What's the relation of Latin culture and language, Kosovo region, E-V13 and ALbanians? I totally don't understand you. How do Latin loanwords in todays Albanian language relate to ethnic constitution of Kosovo?

 

[Bardhyl]

Albanian Families who have been forced to leave kosovo in the time of rankovich read on wiki, thousands of families went away of kosovo and nearby region of serbia, and went to turkey, or albania, yeah i am part of one of those families, im 1963/64 my family was forced to go away of kosovo, my family lived in shterpce in kosovo, look how many percent albanians live today there almost zero. People trade which serbia tried to do with albania (sending albanians from kosovo to albania, while getting some low percentage of serbs of albania) like it was once done between greece and turkey, but was happily stopped because of the world war 2. READ.
1 population should be 1 language 1 culture, and no one can say that we are same like serbs ? Its like comparing apples with dardha (pear).
Dont take religion into consideration, which were and still are weapons to frighten people. To occupy people, and to control people.

 

[Ike]

Yeah, I remember what happened after WWII, during Rankovich, and through communist "regime":

Kosovo, always considered one of the "underdeveloped" areas of Yugoslavia, now received priority treatment. In a five year period in the 1970s, for instance, some 150 million dollars were pumped into it annually. Moreover, of one billion dollars of World Bank development credit to Yugoslavia, Kosovo got 240 million or 24 percent. It is estimated that within the past decade, some 2,100 million dollars have been poured into the Kosovo economy. Much of the cultural support, social services, and educational aid was never to be repaid (i.e., financed by Serbia or the federation)."

Economically, Kosovo was moving ahead in unheard of leaps, with an annual industrial growth rate of 30 percent. With eight percent of the Yugoslav population, Kosovo was allocated up to 30 percent of the Federal Development Funds. The Kosovo authorities, it was discovered later, used large sums from these funds to buy up land from Serbs and give it to Albanians, clearly a misappropriation. Investment loans were given for periods as long as fifteen years, with a three year grace period, and an interest rate of a mere three percent.

Following the 1968 disorders, in which a number of persons were injured, most of the Albanian demands were met. One was not: republic status for Kosovo, but they soon got it, in fact if not in name. The 1968, 1971, and 1974 amendments to the Yugoslav constitution, one after another, granted Serbia's autonomous provinces the prerogatives of republics. Kosovo got its own supreme court and its own Albanian flag. Belgrade University extension departments at Prishtina were upgraded to the level of an independent university. This is when the leaders of Prishtina's youth turned away from Belgrade and toward Tirana. Belgrade could not provide either Albanian teachers or Albanian textbooks.

Tirana was more than glad to oblige. In ten years (1971 - 1981) it sent to Kosovo 240 university teachers, together with textbooks written in the Albanian literary language. At the same time came the aggressive folklore that Shukrija was talking about: Albanian historic and socialist movies, Albanian TV and radio hookups, sport and cultural exchange visits. The amalgamation was in full swing. In plain view of the Kosovo Albanian leaders. The latter did not wake up even in 1974, when an alleged "Cominform group" was discovered, or in 1976, when a "movement for the national liberation of Albania" surfaced. When Serbs complained of pressures and "reverse discrimination," their voices seemingly could not be heard because of the ever more vocal clamor of the Kosovo Albanians.


http://www.kosovo.net/history/kosovo_saga/saga15.html

 

[Bardhyl]

Yeah, I remember what happened after WWII, during Rankovich, and through communist "regime":

Kosovo, always considered one of the "underdeveloped" areas of Yugoslavia, now received priority treatment. In a five year period in the 1970s, for instance, some 150 million dollars were pumped into it annually. Moreover, of one billion dollars of World Bank development credit to Yugoslavia, Kosovo got 240 million or 24 percent. It is estimated that within the past decade, some 2,100 million dollars have been poured into the Kosovo economy. Much of the cultural support, social services, and educational aid was never to be repaid (i.e., financed by Serbia or the federation)."

Economically, Kosovo was moving ahead in unheard of leaps, with an annual industrial growth rate of 30 percent. With eight percent of the Yugoslav population, Kosovo was allocated up to 30 percent of the Federal Development Funds. The Kosovo authorities, it was discovered later, used large sums from these funds to buy up land from Serbs and give it to Albanians, clearly a misappropriation. Investment loans were given for periods as long as fifteen years, with a three year grace period, and an interest rate of a mere three percent.

Following the 1968 disorders, in which a number of persons were injured, most of the Albanian demands were met. One was not: republic status for Kosovo, but they soon got it, in fact if not in name. The 1968, 1971, and 1974 amendments to the Yugoslav constitution, one after another, granted Serbia's autonomous provinces the prerogatives of republics. Kosovo got its own supreme court and its own Albanian flag. Belgrade University extension departments at Prishtina were upgraded to the level of an independent university. This is when the leaders of Prishtina's youth turned away from Belgrade and toward Tirana. Belgrade could not provide either Albanian teachers or Albanian textbooks.

Tirana was more than glad to oblige. In ten years (1971 - 1981) it sent to Kosovo 240 university teachers, together with textbooks written in the Albanian literary language. At the same time came the aggressive folklore that Shukrija was talking about: Albanian historic and socialist movies, Albanian TV and radio hookups, sport and cultural exchange visits. The amalgamation was in full swing. In plain view of the Kosovo Albanian leaders. The latter did not wake up even in 1974, when an alleged "Cominform group" was discovered, or in 1976, when a "movement for the national liberation of Albania" surfaced. When Serbs complained of pressures and "reverse discrimination," their voices seemingly could not be heard because of the ever more vocal clamor of the Kosovo Albanians.


http://www.kosovo.net/history/kosovo_saga/saga15.html

And why did kosovo albanian families fleet because they had it so good right? (Irony on)They flee from kosovo because they didnt want to live well, they fleet because of the gentle treatment of SLAVS, and also in war in kosovo they weren't massacred, or before that in the 80's weren't killed either... (Irony off)

 

[Marko94]

No, that's was not a comparison. Why would I do that? It is totally pointless, and has nothing to do with this conversation. Exactly what was writtem. Before Turkish empire. That's precise enough.I thought those were loanwords.Don't understand you. Try again.Maybe it is, but this is not Slavic thread. Go there and tell them that. For now, this adheres to Albanians. What does Latin culture has to do with Kosovars?So, what is the idea? Dude, explain yourself? What's the relation of Latin culture and language, Kosovo region, E-V13 and ALbanians? I totally don't understand you. How do Latin loanwords in todays Albanian language relate to ethnic constitution of Kosovo?

If kosovar speak a language albanian there is a reason?
Maybe you do not have it figured out, but the fact of the Latin words in the Albanian language only confirms that the Albanians were in Europe at the time of the Roman Empire.
Maybe you did not understand, but the culture that they have a large Latin influence means that were subdued by the Roman Empire.
If it were not for the Roman Empire, in France you speak a Celtic language and etc.

 

[Ike]

And why did kosovo albanian families fleet because they had it so good right? (Irony on)They flee from kosovo because they didnt want to live well, they fleet because of the gentle treatment of SLAVS, and also in war in kosovo they weren't massacred, or before that in the 80's weren't killed either... (Irony off)

I get you dude, but numbers show a different trend since 1945. Number of Albanians in Kosovo rising rapidly, and number of other nationalities decreasing. Interesting.

If kosovar speak a language albanian there is a reason?
Maybe you do not have it figured out, but the fact of the Latin words in the Albanian language only confirms that the Albanians were in Europe at the time of the Roman Empire.
Maybe you did not understand, but the culture that they have a large Latin influence means that were subdued by the Roman Empire.
If it were not for the Roman Empire, in France you speak a Celtic language and etc.

You logic is flawed. Just use your head, and you will see that your scenario is jut one among many possible options. For example:

Greeks were also on Balkan at the time of Roman empire, why don't they speak Latin?
Slavs were on Balkan during Byzantine empire, why don't they speak Greek?
Ireland was not a part of Roman empire, but today they speak a language that has a vast number of Latin words.

 

[Marko94]

You logic is flawed. Just use your head, and you will see that your scenario is jut one among many possible options. For example:

Greeks were also on Balkan at the time of Roman empire, why don't they speak Latin?
Slavs were on Balkan during Byzantine empire, why don't they speak Greek?
Ireland was not a part of Roman empire, but today they speak a language that has a vast number of Latin words.

I have answer to you for latin, if don't exist roman empire the french don't speak a latin languane but a celtic language...........the albanian speak a language with so many word latin because they was conquered by roman.
In italian language you can find a word greek exemple:
Greek:krypte (place).
Latin: Crypta.
Italian: Cripta.
The influence in orient empire roman was greek.

In fact i think the emigration in balkan by slav don't was so little, is impossible that because you "must" speak a language latin or vanetian language not a slav language and your culture shoulde be latin.
Albanian language is mix with latin (majority),greek,slav,turkish and many other, but this influence is ok, because was a territory always won by someone.

What? Is the same domand with an influence greek, the greek don't have conquered nothing (the nothing is reffers to people) , but many language are influence by greek.
Ex:
The term terapy is take from greek.
Greek: θεραπεία (therapeìa).
Italian:Terapia.
Eng:Terapy.
Spanish:Terapia.
French: thérapie
And etc.

 

[Ike]

That doesn't mean that current population of Albania was there in the time of Romans.

Afro-Americans speak English language, but that doesn't prove anything about their origins in America. Yes, they could have gotten to America in 1000 BC in three ships, learn to speak native Indian and dwell there for centuries, only to be later conquered by whites. Did it happen like that? Is the fact that Afro-American speak English now a proof that they were already in America in the time of white colonization?

 

[Sile]

You're not right, under islamic rule were: Spaniards, Portuguese, Maltese, Sicilians, Hungarians, Croats, Lebanese Maronites, Filipinos, Goans in India etc. But only Albanians (large majority) converted to Islam.

And right numbers about Muslim Albanians gives American Pew Research Center:

features.pewforum.org/muslim-population/

Muslim Albanians:

Albania 82.1%
Kosovo 91.7%
Macedonia 34.9% (not only Albanians but Albanians are overwhelming majority of Muslims)

Forecast for 2030:

Albania 83.2%
Kosovo 93.5%
Macedonia 40.3%

Are you saying that the Ottoman empire moved a race/tribes from middle-east to albania to be Albanians.

the centre of albanian ethnicity is th eborder of albania and kosovo, .......coastal albania was more greek/epirote than albania

 

[Sile]

Maybe you did not understand, but the culture that they have a large Latin influence means that were subdued by the Roman Empire.

but the first known term of albanoi was written in 150AD. ..............so what was the history of the people before this.

Under macedonian government from 400BC to 168BC
Under Roman rule from 168BC .................but no script, language or culture mentioned in any Roman books.

Even illyrian language was dead by the time the Romans arrived ...............if it was still around the Romans would have recorded it. The Romans recorded only Thracian and Greek text from this time. So how was this Albanian language hidden for so long under Macedonian and Roman rule to come alive in the Byzantine period?

 

[Garrick]

Are you saying that the Ottoman empire moved a race/tribes from middle-east to albania to be Albanians.

the centre of albanian ethnicity is th eborder of albania and kosovo, .......coastal albania was more greek/epirote than albania

No, I didn't write that. I wrote that Albanians are only people in the world whose members mostly converted from Catholicism to Islam (in the time of Ottoman rule). Effort is of researchers to be found a reason why Albanians massively changed the faith. It is interesting that young Albanians massively converted to Islam and lived in house with their parents who remained Christians. In a relatively short time Albanians are mostly islamized. Of course the Turks brought Muslims from Anatolia and the Caucasus in the Balkans who have entered in the Albanian national body (there are researchers who write about big numbers people who Turks brought to the Balkans but I didn't spread topic about that). For example among the today's Albanians there are people whose ancestors were Circassians.

 

[Marko94]

but the first known term of albanoi was written in 150AD. ..............so what was the history of the people before this.

Under macedonian government from 400BC to 168BC
Under Roman rule from 168BC .................but no script, language or culture mentioned in any Roman books.

Even illyrian language was dead by the time the Romans arrived ...............if it was still around the Romans would have recorded it. The Romans recorded only Thracian and Greek text from this time. So how was this Albanian language hidden for so long under Macedonian and Roman rule to come alive in the Byzantine period?

But in fact albanian language have many words latin.
Albanian language is just a mix.
In Albanian language you can find words latin (for roman empire), venetian (like "ruga"=street and this term is used in albanian language),slav, greek,turk and many other.
The cause is simple, albania was a territory always won, and the empire have influenced the society albanian and that has caused "reboot" of identity.
Before of 1700\1600 albanian was called "arbaresh" and now "albanian".
The name "Montenegro" was taked by Venetian, but this name is for a region inhabited just by albanian and italian.
Or the "Stradioti", the stradioti was a marcenary compose by albanian and greek, but that albanian (i speak for that albanian) spoke greek and not albanian.
There are many questions and 0 answers.

 

[Garrick]

But in fact albanian language have many words latin.
Albanian language is just a mix.
In Albanian language you can find words latin (for roman empire), venetian (like "ruga"=street and this term is used in albanian language),slav, greek,turk and many other.
The cause is simple, albania was a territory always won, and the empire have influenced the society albanian and that has caused "reboot" of identity.
Before of 1700\1600 albanian was called "arbaresh" and now "albanian".
The name "Montenegro" was taked by Venetian, but this name is for a region inhabited just by albanian and italian.
Or the "Stradioti", the stradioti was a marcenary compose by albanian and greek, but that albanian (i speak for that albanian) spoke greek and not albanian.
There are many questions and 0 answers.

Sile told you that Albanian language is young.

Maybe it is younger than Albanians learn in school.

 

[Sile]

But in fact albanian language have many words latin.
Albanian language is just a mix.
In Albanian language you can find words latin (for roman empire), venetian (like "ruga"=street and this term is used in albanian language),slav, greek,turk and many other.
The cause is simple, albania was a territory always won, and the empire have influenced the society albanian and that has caused "reboot" of identity.
Before of 1700\1600 albanian was called "arbaresh" and now "albanian".
The name "Montenegro" was taked by Venetian, but this name is for a region inhabited just by albanian and italian.
Or the "Stradioti", the stradioti was a marcenary compose by albanian and greek, but that albanian (i speak for that albanian) spoke greek and not albanian.
There are many questions and 0 answers.

Ruga is not a street in venetian, its a minor noble family from Feltre, who had possessions in Durres and Treviso. In treviso, he had Borgo Ruga, Borgo is Borough in English, basically a walled Hamlet comprising of about 40 families, where artisans, blacksmiths, carpenters etc would create their works and sell to passing merchants.
Giacomo de Ruga di fu Lazzaro da Paderno
Bold means Giacomo of Ruga Family , son of deceased Lazzaro of Paderno ( Lazzaro being the father of Giacomo)

A paved street in venetian is a CALLE, an unpaved street is a TROI.

The stradioti where light cavalry usually mercenaries and where hired by Venice, Naples, France and a few other nations........they where very good cavalry but unreliable to follow orders in battle and always sought the baggage train of the enemy. They cost Venice a chance to capture the French King, Charles at the battle of Fornovo

 

[Marko94]

Sile told you that Albanian language is young.

Maybe it is younger than Albanians learn in school.

How you can said young language??
What you mean for "young language"???
Albanian language is just a mix, don't is a new language.

 

[Marko94]

Ruga is not a street in venetian, its a minor noble family from Feltre, who had possessions in Durres and Treviso. In treviso, he had Borgo Ruga, Borgo is Borough in English, basically a walled Hamlet comprising of about 40 families, where artisans, blacksmiths, carpenters etc would create their works and sell to passing merchants.
Giacomo de Ruga di fu Lazzaro da Paderno
Bold means Giacomo of Ruga Family , son of deceased Lazzaro of Paderno ( Lazzaro being the father of Giacomo)

A paved street in venetian is a CALLE, an unpaved street is a TROI.

The stradioti where light cavalry usually mercenaries and where hired by Venice, Naples, France and a few other nations........they where very good cavalry but unreliable to follow orders in battle and always sought the baggage train of the enemy. They cost Venice a chance to capture the French King, Charles at the battle of Fornovo

http://www.balcanicaucaso.org/aree/Albania/I-lemmi-italiani-della-lingua-albanese-145455

 

[Sile]

http://www.balcanicaucaso.org/aree/Albania/I-lemmi-italiani-della-lingua-albanese-145455

But italian is not venetian....2 different languages.........my relatives speak 3 languages, Venetian, Italian and English.

Ruga in Venetian means caterpillar or grub , it does not mean street.

Ruga in Italian means a wrinkle - if italians used it in albania , it must have meant a curved path or ditch

So your reference on ruga in Albania meaning street was in Italian language and since Mussolini times when Italians where in Albania, tirana, durres.

The only places venetians where in albania in venetian republic times was Duruzzo ( durres) and Butrint ( only there to prevent ottoman invasion jumping off point to Corfu)

BTW, your link states that in Albanian language Rruga means a street

 

[Marko94]

But italian is not venetian....2 different languages.........my relatives speak 3 languages, Venetian, Italian and English.

Ruga in Venetian means caterpillar or grub , it does not mean street.

Ruga in Italian means a wrinkle - if italians used it in albania , it must have meant a curved path or ditch

So your reference on ruga in Albania meaning street was in Italian language and since Mussolini times when Italians where in Albania, tirana, durres.

The only places venetians where in albania in venetian republic times was Duruzzo ( durres) and Butrint ( only there to prevent ottoman invasion jumping off point to Corfu)

BTW, your link states that in Albanian language Rruga means a street

I don't have said venetian dialect and italian language are the same language.
The title of book is "Rruga", this term is used in albanian language (i go to find on google translate and it exist) for indicate the street.
Also in venetian dialect is used that term, in this you can find the term "rùga": http://www.veneziasi.it/it/curiosita-venezia/dialetto-veneziano.html (find rùga).
In that book is divided in dialect->albanian (exemple ruga or another term used in a dialect venetian or another) and italian->albanian.

 

[Sile]

I don't have said venetian dialect and italian language are the same language.
The title of book is "Rruga", this term is used in albanian language (i go to find on google translate and it exist) for indicate the street.
Also in venetian dialect is used that term, in this you can find the term "rùga": http://www.veneziasi.it/it/curiosita-venezia/dialetto-veneziano.html (find rùga).
In that book is divided in dialect->albanian (exemple ruga or another term used in a dialect venetian or another) and italian->albanian.

firstly as per ALL linguistic professors, there are no languages, they are all dialects .

from your link
Rùga: deriva dal francese rue e indica alcune vie abbastanza larghe fiancheggiate da abitazioni e botteghe

Do, you know Italian, this is written in Italian,.............. it says.......from the french language, Rue indicating wide areas of homes and shops ( bottega in venetian ) .........but Borgo is the correct word

I do not know what type of drug this italian writer of your link was on , but these are all the meaning from middleages to present in venetian
troi/troj = dirt track
calle/cale = paved street ( pronounced kay)
dirt road = caveagna
secondary road = fodra
paved road = stradon
road edge = dejo

to conclude , you are only confirming to me that Albanian is a recent language to europe that needs to borrow words from others and fabricate a different meaning. I see no ancient text in the albanian language

 

[Marko94]

firstly as per ALL linguistic professors, there are no languages, they are all dialects .

from your link
Rùga: deriva dal francese rue e indica alcune vie abbastanza larghe fiancheggiate da abitazioni e botteghe

Do, you know Italian, this is written in Italian,.............. it says.......from the french language, Rue indicating wide areas of homes and shops ( bottega in venetian ) .........but Borgo is the correct word

I do not know what type of drug this italian writer of your link was on , but these are all the meaning from middleages to present in venetian
troi/troj = dirt track
calle/cale = paved street ( pronounced kay)
dirt road = caveagna
secondary road = fodra
paved road = stradon
road edge = dejo

to conclude , you are only confirming to me that Albanian is a recent language to europe that needs to borrow words from others and fabricate a different meaning. I see no ancient text in the albanian language

I don't understand you.
The albanian use a ruga term, this term is used for indicate the "street" but also the venetian used that term.
But where take that term? The albanian take a term from venetian and venetian take a term from french.
French (rua)->Venetian (rùga)->Albanian (ruga).
Now you have understand?
The link (http://www.veneziasi.it/it/curiosita-venezia/dialetto-veneziano.html) is just a explanatian where the venetian have take that term.
Rùga in venetian dialect is used for indicate the "large street" (vie abbastanza larghe).

to conclude , you are only confirming to me that Albanian is a recent language to europe that needs to borrow words from others and fabricate a different meaning.

I don't understand your affermation, according to you the french,spanish and other are a young language because it have take "words" from other language (latin)??

i see no ancient text in the albanian language

I think don't need, just a contamination of latin culture in albanian language is an answer.
The albanian language is just a mixture of many languages, and it is caused because they were always conquered.