Language of Sclavenes vs Language of Rus (De administrando imperio)

[Nik]

Mind you,i do not answer a question to you,neither i want to have conversation with people with behavior like yours,so do not reply to my comments even if you don't like them.
And if admins tolerate every post about Slavic people to be ruined by someone with Albanian nationalist purposes,plus to insult other people while conversation,well good for them and for the forum.

Actually the topic was started by Garrick pointing out that the Albanian word for pelican "nosit" proves that Albanians lived in Northern Romania and Moldavia, instead of just determining a possible northern border of Proto-Albanian extending further South. But no, they lived only there, otherwise your fears of Great Albania will increase.

And yes, I mentioned Herzegovina and I will mention Lika too. And these settlements are not only Christian, but pre-Ottoman as well, living side by side with Vlachs.

 

[Milan]

Actually the topic was started by Garrick pointing out that the Albanian word for pelican "nosit" proves that Albanians lived in Northern Romania and Moldavia, instead of just determining a possible northern border of Proto-Albanian extending further South. But no, they lived only there, otherwise your fears of Great Albania will increase.

And yes, I mentioned Herzegovina and I will mention Lika too. And these settlements are not only Christian, but pre-Ottoman as well, living side by side with Vlachs.

You was the one that brought "Albanian" language in discusion where nowhere here it is mentioned,not only also political topic of Yugoslavia again "Albanian origin" by you guys.
What kind greater Albania do not be funny with this ideas all of you,everyone that wanted something greater in Balkans was becoming smaller,instead cooperate,there is the solution in cooperation,there is nothing greater in miserable nationalism.

 

[LABERIA]

Mind you,i do not answer a question to you,neither i want to have conversation with people with behavior like yours,so do not reply to my comments even if you don't like them.
And if admins tolerate every post about Slavic people to be ruined by someone with Albanian nationalist purposes,plus to insult other people while conversation,well good for them and for the forum.

I don't have any nationalist purpose. But i can not allow to you to continue your falsification of the history of my country.

 

[LABERIA]

You was the one that brought "Albanian" language in discusion where nowhere here it is mentioned,not only also political topic of Yugoslavia again "Albanian origin" by you guys.
What kind greater Albania do not be funny with this ideas all of you,everyone that wanted something greater in Balkans was becoming smaller,instead cooperate,there is the solution in cooperation,there is nothing greater in miserable nationalism.

Pick a name from the basket for your country first.

 

[Milan]

I don't have any nationalist purpose. But i can not allow to you to continue your falsification of the history of my country.

The mythical or which one,well myths are made from people so they are changed from them.

 

[LABERIA]

The mythical or which one,well myths are made from people so they are changed from them.

I gave you an advice if you remember. Forget what you discuss in your forums. Here you are in an international forum. People read carefully everything is posted here. Even a single word can put in discussion your reputation. When you say that Albanians arrived in Kosova after the great migration of Serbs, you have to prove that there was an serb migration. Because the modern serb scholars, for different reasons don't accept this "theory". It's one of the many serb myths.

 

[Milan]

Pick a name from the basket for your country first.

First start using name that you call yourself instead of exonym of region given by others,don't shame from it,i have choosed the country if you do not see well.

 

[Milan]

I gave you an advice if you remember. Forget what you discuss in your forums. Here you are in an international forum. People read carefully everything is posted here. Even a single word can put in discussion your reputation. When you say that Albanians arrived in Kosova after the great migration of Serbs, you have to prove that there was an serb migration. Because the modern serb scholars, for different reasons don't accept this "theory". It's one of the many serb myths.

Where you saw such a claim and who mention any Kosovo in my comment,the Kosovo name was Arnautluk in Ottoman empire,Kosovo was in middle ages and later on,migrations out of Ottoman empire are well documented,i mention even the Albanian migrations,but apparanetly your one sided view is killing you.

 

[Nik]

Where you saw such a claim and who mention any Kosovo in my comment,the Kosovo name was Arnautluk in Ottoman empire,Kosovo was in middle ages and later on,migrations out of Ottoman empire are well documented,i mention even the Albanian migrations,but apparanetly your one sided view is killing you.

The Albanian migration happened from Kosovo southwards and westwards 90% of the time and not the other way around.

Anyway, lets leave the arguing aside as according to all genetic studies we were almost all cousins a few centuries back. Then both groups evolved simultaneously due to different historic circumstances (invasions, religion, etc.) and ended up fighting who's got better rakia/rakija and who's race not only superior but also distinct, while everyone with a brain knows that all Serbs would pass unnoticed in Albania and vice-versa.

 

[LABERIA]

Where you saw such a claim and who mention any Kosovo in my comment,the Kosovo name was Arnautluk in Ottoman empire,Kosovo was in middle ages and later on,migrations out of Ottoman empire are well documented,i mention even the Albanian migrations,but apparanetly your one sided view is killing you.

Your post is full with inaccuracies. Than, elaborate pls, what kind of migrations are you talking. From my side, let me repeat something. There was not an great serb migration from Kosova.

 

[Milan]

Your post is full with inaccuracies. Than, elaborate pls, what kind of migrations are you talking. From my side, let me repeat something. There was not an great serb migration from Kosova.

Let's mention but one,far away from Kosovo which i never brought in discusion;
The modern population of Bessarabian Bulgarians settled in the region of southern Bessarabia at the end of the 18th and beginning of the 19th centuries, at the time of feudal sedition in the Ottoman Empire, and after the Russo-Turkish Wars of the period. Particularly strong waves of emigration emerged after the Russo-Turkish Wars of 1806–1812 and 1828-1829. The settlers came primarily from what is now eastern Bulgaria, but many were also descendants of Bulgarians of the western part of the country that had moved east in and before the 18th century. Among the Bulgarians who immigrated to Bessarabia were also a handful of Albanians who also had settled in eastern Bulgaria some time before.


When Russian Armies were reaching and crossing Danube during the Russian-Ottoman Wars, some local Bulgarians supported them. These people were compromised in the eyes of the Ottomans and therefore had a better chance moving to the Russian Empire.
In Ukraine, the number of Bessarabian Bulgarians is estimated at over 129,000 in Budjak (in the Odessa Oblast in the southern part of the country), and 75,000 elsewhere (mostly in other parts of Southern Ukraine), according to the 2001 Ukrainian Census, which counted a total of 204,600 Bulgarians in Ukraine.

You see there was Albanians too among them,but prior mythical origin of nations there was religion,as well Sharia law in the empire.
As you can see im not one sided like you.
How many were assimilated until today,this is one among countless smaller and some bigger migrations.
Do you want to tell me there was also no migration in the rebelions after battle of Vienna?When Ottomans severely punished and burned entire rebelling regions.
The deserted areas were populated by obedient Muslim population in the empire.
This also might be falsification,maybe want an interview? might be falsification but only if doesn't fit in your own present day myths.

 

[LABERIA]

Let's mention but one,far away from Kosovo which i never brought in discusion;
The modern population of Bessarabian Bulgarians settled in the region of southern Bessarabia at the end of the 18th and beginning of the 19th centuries, at the time of feudal sedition in the Ottoman Empire, and after the Russo-Turkish Wars of the period. Particularly strong waves of emigration emerged after the Russo-Turkish Wars of 1806–1812 and 1828-1829. The settlers came primarily from what is now eastern Bulgaria, but many were also descendants of Bulgarians of the western part of the country that had moved east in and before the 18th century. Among the Bulgarians who immigrated to Bessarabia were also a handful of Albanians who also had settled in eastern Bulgaria some time before.


When Russian Armies were reaching and crossing Danube during the Russian-Ottoman Wars, some local Bulgarians supported them. These people were compromised in the eyes of the Ottomans and therefore had a better chance moving to the Russian Empire.
In Ukraine, the number of Bessarabian Bulgarians is estimated at over 129,000 in Budjak (in the Odessa Oblast in the southern part of the country), and 75,000 elsewhere (mostly in other parts of Southern Ukraine), according to the 2001 Ukrainian Census, which counted a total of 204,600 Bulgarians in Ukraine.

You see there was Albanians too among them,but prior mythical origin of nations there was religion,as well Sharia law in the empire.
As you can see im not one sided like you.
How many were assimilated until today,this is one among countless smaller and some bigger migrations.
Do you want to tell me there was also no migration in the rebelions after battle of Vienna?When Ottomans severely punished and burned entire rebelling regions.
The deserted areas were populated by obedient Muslim population in the empire.
This also might be falsification,maybe want an interview? might be falsification but only if doesn't fit in your own present day myths.

Can you elaborate this migration after the battle of Vienna?

 

[Milan]

Can you elaborate this migration after the battle of Vienna?

I would say read yourself it will help you,have a nice day.

 

[LABERIA]

I would say read yourself it will help you,have a nice day.

I would prefer to read your arguments. I can not illustrate your opinion.

 

[Garrick]

How Russu interpret the migration scenario of free Dacians,under what circmustances happened?
What is weird to me is that all "Avar" hoards in Balkans are found in Albania,one in Vrap central Albania (Tirana) other in Erseke southern Albania.
There was many subject in that kingdom of mixed origin.The collapse of the Danube frontier happened sometime after Justinian(6th-7th century),otherwise any subsequent migration would have been recorced,or stopped unless Romans themselves brought people in.

Romanian and Bulgarian scientists reconstructed arrival of Free Dacians to today's Albania.

There was two different routs, maybe more.

It will be time, we will discuss about it.

What we don't know yet 100%, when newcomers, Carpi (Gheges) and probably another tribe successor of Tosks arrived to Albania who were natives.

And one my Greek friend told me his opinion how Carpi assimilated Greek native population.

Durres and surrounding were inhabited by Greeks before Carpi arrived, and Carpi first settled in area Mat, it means Carpi and Greeks were close, his opinion make sense and for some other areas of Albania, and Tosk areas.

He thinks, a lot of today's Albanians are assimilated Greeks.

...
But what is very interesting what derives from Romanian theory.

Illyrian is dead language in 2nd century.

But Thracian survived.

Which today's language is Neo-Thracian?

Two languages can compete: Old Church Slavonic and his successors and Albanian (both Tosk and Ghege).

It can be possible that both languages are Neo-Thracian languages, and according rigorous American study this two languages are the closest each other (plus Lithuanian).
...

What can be cons for Albanian. Yes it received many Latin words, but it has not lost Northern Thracian basis (we can go far in past, maybe original Proto Albanian was not Thracian but it doesn't matter for this discussion).

Cons for Old Church Slavonic is that there is opinion predecessor of Slavonic and Thracian were different and they are melted.

Things become very interesting,

In any case Albanian and Old Church Slavonic, one of them or both, will be placed as Neo Thracian.

So, in some forms, Thracian language survived to present days.

 

[Sile]

I gave you many proofs in the thread about Illyrians, Albanians. I quoted there primary sources. Do you know what is an primary source? Go in the said thread, read again what i have posted there and if you disagree with me explain your opinion. But pls, try to show some seriousness.

They are all "proofs" of less than 200 years ago ( all nationalistic propaganda like every nation practices )..............I want your ancient proofs which you like to combat on

 

[Sile]

And the last point, u all seem to be defending pretty well from Albanian theories with the fact that we dont know much about Illyrian, but when it comes to prove the opposite u all confidently claim that Albanians and Illyrians are not the same. U either have facts or u dont. U either know or u dont. But all I see is the continuous use the same fact of "knowing nothing about Illyrians" to disprove one theory and verify another.

Albanians cannot be the same as illyrians, because the Romans did not include albania in Illyricum , but placed it under Epirus Nova, a place where Greeks, Macedonians, Epirotes mixed over and over for 4 centuries

 

[LABERIA]

They are all "proofs" of less than 200 years ago ( all nationalistic propaganda like every nation practices )..............I want your ancient proofs which you like to combat on

No, this is trollling. What i have posted are documents from some of the most important scholars world wide. This people quote primary sources. Go there and explain why you don't agree. Only in this way you can have an credibility in front of people who read our discussions.

 

[Sile]

No, this is trollling. What i have posted are documents from some of the most important scholars world wide. This people quote primary sources. Go there and explain why you don't agree. Only in this way you can have an credibility in front of people who read our discussions.

What credibility do you show?..........the first and oldest term for the Albanians was in 150AD , yet you continue to link your less than 10% of Illyrians with all Illyrians.................who as you know where already celtized and then failed to exist as an entity from 50 AD under Roman rule

By the way, the youngest illyrian term was initiated by Napoleon to represent slovenia and croatia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_Provinces
Do these count for anything? .................I do not see albania incorporated in this link

BTW, the ***** is yourself by ignoring the ancient Romans who dealt with the illyrians and knew far more about their enemies than what later medieval and modern scholars did

 

[Garrick]

Some Albanians here try tell us that genetic cannot prove Romanian theory.

Unfortunately it is wrong.

People move and situation today and situation yesterday can be very different.

Northern-Eastern Romania and surrounding areas were very "traffic" for very different tribes, we can see in time of Albanian Carpi following tribes more: Dacian, Sarmatian, Scytian, Germanic, Celtic, Slavic etc. When Huns came they made a lot of stir.

(There was no room for all, and Free Dacian went to South Western Balkan areas which were quite depopulated in this time.)

And in such situation it is normal why in today Romania and Albania haplogroups are not same, although similarities exist. Carpi left their mainland. Maybe some Carpi remained and drown in other populations.

Because Romania once was very "traffic" it is normal that today we can see very heterogenous situation in today's Romania.

But we can find E-V13, J2b, R1b ht35 in today's Romania and beyond.

Romanian scientists wanted to know haplogroups of people who are successors Basarab dynasty.

Assumption is that Basarab dynasty is Cuman/Turkish origin, although there are opinion it is from Caucasus or somewhere from Moldavia/Romania.

Results 29 Romanian men + 3 Bulgarian + 3 Hungarian.

E-V13: 12 (10 Romanian, 2 Bulgarian)

J2b: 9 (All Romanian)

Others (I2a, R1a, G2a, J1, J2): 14 (10 Romanian, 4 Hungarian/Bulgarian)

It means: E-V13 + J2b = 60%

If we see Romanians, E-V13 + J2b is 65%.

Basarab rulers could be E-V13 or J2b people.

...
Genetic cannot be proof against Free Dacian Carpi (Geghes) and ?(maybe Costoboci, Bessoi, etc.) (Tosk) theory.

Plus Free Dacian after they came to Albania assimilated local population (local Greeks and others).