LABERIA
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Go in the thread about Illyrians, there are my posts. And explain why i am wrong. Don't derail this thread.
Language of Sclavenes vs Language of Rus (De administrando imperio)
- Thread starter A. Papadimitriou
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Go in the thread about Illyrians, there are my posts. And explain why i am wrong. Don't derail this thread.
LABERIA
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Here sile:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...anian-a-linguistic-approach?highlight=Arbania
You can find here an document mentioned by an important British scholar Hammond who quoted an important russian scholar Makusev. And you had difficulty to understand the document. Go in that thread, study the document and if you have difficulty again to understand it, tell me.
mihaitzateo
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@Uko:
As for Germanic dialects spoken around Baltic Sea , I think , most of those,sadly, are lost.
Is very possible that Rus people that came to Russia were speakers of a Germanic dialect from around Baltic Sea and not of Old Norse.
Another thing, I think would be possible, but very hard to make a difference between Finnish and other Finnic or Ugric words that came into Russian brought by the Norse elite and the words that were borrowed from Fino-Ugric languages, because Eastern Slavs were living in the vicinity of Finnic and Ugric people and also assimilated Finnic and Ugric tribes.
Anyway is good that these texts from that period were kept. The language from these texts can be analyzed today and compared to what is known about Old Norse.
As for Germanic dialects spoken around Baltic Sea , I think , most of those,sadly, are lost.
Is very possible that Rus people that came to Russia were speakers of a Germanic dialect from around Baltic Sea and not of Old Norse.
Another thing, I think would be possible, but very hard to make a difference between Finnish and other Finnic or Ugric words that came into Russian brought by the Norse elite and the words that were borrowed from Fino-Ugric languages, because Eastern Slavs were living in the vicinity of Finnic and Ugric people and also assimilated Finnic and Ugric tribes.
Anyway is good that these texts from that period were kept. The language from these texts can be analyzed today and compared to what is known about Old Norse.
Name Albanopolis is one of indicators that Illyrians were Romanized in 2nd century.
Root of word is Latin: alba (Lat.) = white (Eng.)
We have a lot of names in Europe and beyond with root "alba":
Albocense: Dacian tribe
Alba: name for Scotland
Caucasus Albania: name of country in the Caucasus
Etc.
Nothing to do with Geges and Tosks who came several centuries after as Free Dacian tribes.
Albanians (Geges, Tosks) call themselves Shqiptarët, language is Shqipe.
Latin alba nothing to do with Shqipe word because their word is bardhë., it is Northern Thracian word, atested of Hasdeu, Russu, Vraciu.
alba (Lat.) = white (eng.). = bardhë (Shq./Alb.)
And Romanized Illyrian Albanopilis, you can see Shqipe: Zgërdhesh - it is obviously word that has Northern Thracian root too.
Bastarnae originally was Germanic tribe.
But with new situations this tribe was less and less Germanic, it can be that Sarmatians became dominant, although Carpi were near, it can be their strong impact and it is possible strong impact of members another Free Dacian tribe.
Romanian scientists found that Carpi are Geges, but it is not clear yet who are Tosks, some opinions say Tosks are Costoboci.
German scientist Schramm argued that Bessoi were Albanian, this tribe is Thracian and lived south of Dacia in today's Bulgaria (Rodopi region), in Albanian (Shqipe): besë = trust (Eng.).
It is interesting what you think about Bastarnae.
Diurpaneus
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On the first wiktionary table,"u" from the Proto-Indo-European root turns to "w" in Balto-Slavic,while the evolved
Slavic form "voda" yields a "v".
Using the same principle on the second table, "u" from the PIE root will eventually become the "v" from vapa.
But it didn't offered the (reconstructed) Balto-Slavic and Proto-Slavic roots as well,so I started to search for the problems.
I assumed that it has to do with the phonetics and morphology (Baltic -up,ap versus Slavic -vap;unsuffixed versions),
the Slavic word had one sound plus,not only comparing to Baltic,but also to all the other Indo-European forms,
I thought it is a different structure,being bigger, it could have been the result of the word's blending.
But this Polish paper(see especially pgs. 10,11 and 13) finds a morphological and semantical match,
the Indic words based on the root vapi,that also means "pond,lake".
Indeed,vapa is a more complex term than upe,having a compound root.
"It is suggested that PIE. *h2we-h2p- f. ‘pond, tank, pool, lake’, orig. ‘a reservoir of stagnant water’(hence Old Indic vāpb- f. ‘any pond; an oblong reservoir of water, tank, pool, lake’, Pali vāpif.‘pond’; Prakrit vāvī- f. ‘pond’; Old Church Slavic вапа f. ‘lake’, Ukrainian вáпа f. ‘standing water;boggy place’; Slovenian vápa f. ‘puddle’) represents a compound containing the Proto-Indo-Europeanprivative particle (prefix) *h2we- ‘away, not’ and the term *h2ep- ‘flowing water; water on themove’ (cf. Old Indic ap- f. ‘water’, Avestan āfš f. ‘water’; Tocharian AB āp ‘water, river’, Old Prussianape f. ‘river’, Hittite ḫapa- c. ‘river’ and so on)."
"The Old Indic opposition (both in semantics and in word-formation) observed between
the appellatives ap- ‘water’ and vāp-ī- f. ‘pond, body of water’ seems to correspond
to the opposition of OPrus. ape f. ‘river’ and PSl. *vapa f. ‘lake’. The correspondences
between Indic and Balto-Slavic are striking enough to allow one to guess that the mutual
relations go back to two separate though related archetypes"
Speaking of upe ,the only problem against a further Thracian-Baltic relation,would be
an independent evolution.For example,rhotacism occurs independently within the Romance languages.
"The unexpected vocalism of the root u-, attested in Lithuanian, Latvian
and possibly Yatvingian4, should be explained by phonetic phenomena internal
to the Baltic group, probably a sound process analogical to Cowgill’s law."
https://www.google.ro/url?sa=t&rct=...Xk9LdKd9gGn1bjZIBNrKeA&bvm=bv.129759880,d.bGg
EDIT:
I appreciate the tone,definitely more decent.
Last edited:
mihaitzateo
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This is an excellent proof that Rus leading class were Norse speaker people.
For all those Eastern Slavs that do not want to accept the truth.
Sile
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Albanians (Geges, Tosks) call themselves Shqiptarët, language is Shqipe.
Does anyone know where this word originates from?.............it looks like Indian Romani
On Bessoi/Bessi............their orinins are nowhere near Dacia, they lived in the mountains separating modern Bulgaria from modern Greece
mihaitzateo
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Is a false impression that Albanian sounds like Hindi.
If you will study the genetics of Indians, you will see, that the Hindi language was brought there from Iran.
Since maternal lines are not European, at Indians,but a part of paternal lines,in North India,are European.
I tried to find any cognates between current day Albanian and Hindi and I could not find any.
From the Indo-European languages, I think Albanian is most weird and is most "out" of the Indo-European languages group.
Once, I thought.
But both, classics and modern (mathematical) IE classifications say different.
For example two modern classifications using mathematical and computational modeling say following:
Gray, Atkinson
Division Albanian and Indo-Iranian
Bouckaert
Division Albanian and Greek and Indo-Iranian.
According it Albanian (Grey, Atkinson) or Albanian together with Greek (Bouckaert) has same root as Indo-Iranian.
...
Diurpaneus
Unfortunately linguists can be drastically different, you can quote two linguists for same thing and you can see total different views.
It is reason why mathematical/computational modeling more and more get attention.
But mathematics in linguistics uses in many different ways, not only in computational glottochronology.
So American scientists using rigorous mathematical methods found that Albanian is the closest to Old Church Slavonic and Lithuanian.
I predict that mathematics, algorithms and computational methods will be main tool in linguistics in next years. And not only in linguistics, in science generally.
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Albanian is an Asiatic language, descended from a group of Japanese Samurai nomads known as the Ronin, escaping the punishment of the Bushido. Proof for that is the word for "go", which is "ike" in Japanese" and "ik" in Albanian. Case closed. Serbs are Thracians, Albanians are Japanese newcomers.
So basically the Sclavenes and their language was nothing but Daco-Thracians mixed with Illyrian.
So basically the Sclavenes and their language was nothing but Daco-Thracians mixed with Illyrian.
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