K7b Lazaridis et al. 2017 (Dodecad K7b)

Completely unscientific and based on a few data points but it seems that our Italian friends are closer to the Minoans and Myceneans than some of the modern Greeks. I would like some of the other Greeks that hang around here to take the test. Maybe they will make a liar out of me but I think the modern Italians had less admixture events than the Greeks.

I think modern Pelopennesians would come out similar to Myceaneans. However, I haven't seen anyone on this board from there.

Below is a PCA I made for K7b with samples from Haak et al. 2015, Lazaridis et al 2017, and select eras from Antonio M. et al. 2019. It is mostly accurate, compared to the academic PCAs. However, R15 is wrong, since it is clustering with modern Northern Europeans. Also, the Greek sample from K7b seems to be perhaps from a more northern part of Greece. It is tough to see, though, it is between me, and C_Italy. Perhaps it is just due to how this calculator works, but I am usually, "West" of Greek samples; I am for K12b.

k3faB5M.png

I think we need samples with more steppe to fit us better.

Indeed, above, I am bracketed between the Mycenaean, and Yamnaya clusters.
 
Distance to:I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis
1.88018616Ashkenazy_Jews
2.02316584Ashkenazi
2.98481155Sicilian
3.95773925S_Italian_Sicilian
7.58703499Sephardic_Jews
8.80895567Morocco_Jews
10.57741462Greek
11.96443480C_Italian
17.20127030Cypriots
18.73890872Tuscan
19.18717540TSI30
20.83918664O_Italian
23.56318527Turkish
24.49232533Lebanese
24.66211062Turks
26.79884326Syrians
27.18660884Bulgarian
27.49257536Druze
27.75671811Jordanians
27.80351956North_Italian
27.97716390Palestinian
28.09444251Bulgarians
28.13523947N_Italian
29.20492595Romanians
30.95241025Algerian


Wow is that close to Ashkenazy Jews or what? Then Sicilians then Sephardic Jews then Greeks.
 
Distance to:adam
5.56978456I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis
9.86920463I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese
11.15019282I2495_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province
11.50790598I2499_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province
12.35573551I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Peloponnese
14.15913133I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
15.88881997I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
16.24245055I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
16.43875604I2683_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province
16.54025393I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
16.89301039I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete
17.61596151I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese
18.08058351I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
18.57751060I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
19.14544855I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
19.30560022I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
21.71154992I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave
22.67110496I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
24.48510976I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
 
Distance to:adam
5.56978456I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis
9.86920463I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese
11.15019282I2495_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province
11.50790598I2499_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province
12.35573551I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Peloponnese
14.15913133I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
15.88881997I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
16.24245055I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
16.43875604I2683_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province
16.54025393I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
16.89301039I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete
17.61596151I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese
18.08058351I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
18.57751060I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
19.14544855I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
19.30560022I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
21.71154992I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave
22.67110496I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
24.48510976I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete

Great matches, @kingjohn. I do have a question though, not necessarily to you but to all. There is a large differences between the Myceneans themselves right? How can that be explained? Pelasgians and early Greeks?
 
Distance to:I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese
12.34200956Ashkenazi
12.68610657Sicilian
12.94122483Ashkenazy_Jews
12.96400787S_Italian_Sicilian
13.55992257Morocco_Jews
14.85918908C_Italian
15.72454451Sephardic_Jews
16.17341955Greek
18.89130752TSI30
19.46426212Tuscan
21.75305726O_Italian
22.65470150Sardinian
25.11627958Algerian
25.23310326North_Italian
25.33349364Canarias
25.48131668Moroccan
26.73031051N_Italian
26.99465688Cypriots
28.72409964Murcia
29.87740785Bulgarian
29.90239957Andalucia
30.10030399Baleares
30.22263887Portuguese
30.26925007Bulgarians
30.68868684Galicia

Approximately the same suspects but at greater distances.
 
Distance to:I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Peloponnese
6.37029042C_Italian
7.88775000Greek
7.95893209S_Italian_Sicilian
8.38101426Sicilian
9.16374923Ashkenazi
9.51448370Ashkenazy_Jews
11.00157261TSI30
11.11255146Tuscan
13.05934914O_Italian
16.28627029Morocco_Jews
17.08722915Sephardic_Jews
18.65075334North_Italian
19.42515380N_Italian
20.72999276Bulgarian
21.00997382Canarias
21.27521093Bulgarians
22.25436137Romanians
23.81640191Murcia
24.66084751Baleares
24.87300947Andalucia
25.00129997Portuguese
25.24782367Sardinian
25.47632234Extremadura
25.50542295Galicia
26.99235077Castilla_Y_Leon

Hmmmm...this time Central Italians and then Greeks
 
Distance to:I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese
4.91159852S_Italian_Sicilian
5.00959080Sicilian
5.41903128Ashkenazi
5.86770824Ashkenazy_Jews
8.28165442C_Italian
8.59172858Greek
12.11419828Morocco_Jews
12.58491160Sephardic_Jews
14.54003439Tuscan
14.57078584TSI30
16.83085856O_Italian
22.69202062North_Italian
23.27844067Cypriots
23.43962030N_Italian
24.28525890Bulgarian
24.95423411Bulgarians
25.55431470Canarias
26.03458853Romanians
27.51686392Sardinian
28.12577110Murcia
28.90805770Baleares
29.14528778Andalucia
29.51726613Portuguese
29.54254221Algerian
29.72345538Turkish

Again Sicilians and central Italians before Greeks
 
It is worth mentioning, that the Philistine, ASH068, is similar to the other Myceanean samples. The others, are BA_Levantines, and ASH067 is a mixed individual between them.

There is a lot of Greek admixture in Ashkenazi Jews, among other European groups. Moreover, there has been admixture from south eastern Europe, into the Levant, throughout the ages.


Distance to:I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese
5.55584377ASH068
20.30147285ASH067
26.73322839ASH029
27.57081609ASH135
30.74381564ASH066
33.78499371ASH033
34.22080508ASH2-3
36.88504304ASH034
40.68090707ASH008
42.13864497ASH087


Distance to:I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Peloponnese
5.29715018ASH068
24.75179993ASH067
31.31179490ASH029
31.59808064ASH135
34.71323091ASH066
38.00821359ASH2-3
38.24450287ASH033
41.30553958ASH034
45.08003327ASH008
46.51836842ASH087


Distance to:I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese
5.80381771ASH068
23.81889796ASH067
27.96274665ASH029
28.26997347ASH135
32.23177780ASH066
36.33625049ASH033
38.91225899ASH034
39.12660476ASH2-3
42.22497247ASH087
42.51937323ASH008
 
Distance to:I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave
14.41333410Morocco_Jews
16.21746898Ashkenazi
16.84759330Ashkenazy_Jews
16.87937795Sicilian
17.36177986Sephardic_Jews
17.41695151S_Italian_Sicilian
19.99025262C_Italian
21.14857442Moroccan
21.25149877Greek
21.28967355Algerian
23.17753654Sardinian
23.75997054TSI30
24.41527391Tuscan
26.59943984O_Italian
28.17888216Canarias
28.27585896Cypriots
29.04586373Moroccans
29.07965268Mozabite
29.49779992North_Italian
31.18374897N_Italian
32.05965377Murcia
33.31165262Andalucia
33.52022375Portuguese
33.57559233Egyptans
33.71465853Baleares

This one is a neolithic sample and is away from everyone but still both Ashkenazy Jews and Sephardic and Moroccan Jews and Italians before Greeks.
 
Great matches, @kingjohn. I do have a question though, not necessarily to you but to all. There is a large differences between the Myceneans themselves right? How can that be explained? Pelasgians and early Greeks?


i think this one ( I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis
was not in the best coverage :unsure:
and he showed some levantine admixture
in eurogenes k13
in 4 populations he was modeled
50% Lebanese+ ( rest european)

the other one (I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese)
was in better coverage so this my real distance from Mycenaean 9.8

p.s
to answere your question i am not expert but there could have been some substructure in the Mycenaean
 
i think this one ( I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis
was not in the best coverage :unsure:
and he showed some levantine admixture
in eurogenes k13
in 4 populations he was modeled
50% Lebanese+ ( rest european)

the other one (I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese)
was in better coverage so this my real distance from Mycenaean 9.8

p.s
to answere your question i am not expert but there could have been some substructure in the Mycenaean

That's not what the study said, there is no Levantine in the Myceaneans. I'd suggest not trusting eurogenes, but the official paper. There is already an extensive thread on this matter.
 
I sort took Jovialis post #21 and decided to combine the Roman K7 coordinates (Antonio et al 2019) and Ancient Greek K7 (Lazaridis et al 2017) and run distances (cut off <=10). 3 Mycenaean's are still in that list. At 0.25X I get it pretty close, well really close.

Distance to:PalermoTrapani
0.83982141R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
1.42656931R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
1.68508160R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
1.75396693R32_Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto
1.84111379R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
1.88055843R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
1.88801483R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
1.94787063R58_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
2.14513403R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio
2.61122577R1290_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
3.23077390R113_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
3.28645706R47_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis
3.90117931R57_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
4.03136453R107_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
4.08694262R835_Imperial_Era_Civitanova_Marche
4.10084138R49_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis
4.16408453R54_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
4.20110700R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
4.29206244R65_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
4.57546719R973_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti
4.61968614R118_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
4.85639784R121_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
4.93154134I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese
4.97722814R969_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti
4.99195353R60_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
5.22896739R836_Imperial_Era_Civitanova_Marche
5.79497196R53_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
5.89158722I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis
6.08517050R64_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
6.09579363R136_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietro
6.37355474R1544_Imperial_Era_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese
6.56041157R436_Imperial_Era_Palestrina
6.74245504I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Peloponnese
6.84029239R1549_Imperial_Era_Monterotondo
7.38439571R970_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti
8.06102351R69_Imperial_Era_ANAS
8.23583633R120_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
8.31398821R114_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
8.36538104R50_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis
8.39415868R30_Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto
8.53855960R137_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietro
8.60519610R125_Imperial_Era_Casale_del_Dolce
8.66573136R1283_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
9.45386693R51_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis
9.63031152R111_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
10.38092000R1287_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
10.39096242R36_Late_Antiquity_Celio

Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 0.1416% / 0.14155023 | ADC: 0.25x

42.8R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
25.6R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
15.2R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
11.8I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese
2.6R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
1.8R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio
0.2R80_Imperial_Era_Viale_Rossini_Necropolis


Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 0.4262% / 0.42621808 | ADC: 0.5x

73.8R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
10.0R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
7.4R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
6.8R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio
1.2I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese
0.8R132_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietro


Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 0.8081% / 0.80806989 | ADC: 1x

97.2R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
1.2R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
1.0R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
0.6R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio


Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 0.8398% / 0.83982141 | ADC: 2x

100.0R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
 
That's not what the study said, there is no Levantine in the Myceaneans. I'd suggest not trusting eurogenes, but the official paper. There is already an extensive thread on this matter.

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]The origins of the Bronze Age Minoan and Mycenaean cultures have puzzled archaeologists for more than a century. We have assembled genome-wide data from 19 ancient individuals, including Minoans from Crete, Mycenaeans from mainland Greece, and their eastern neighbours from southwestern Anatolia. Here we show that Minoans and Mycenaeans were genetically similar, having at least three-quarters of their ancestry from the first Neolithic farmers of western Anatolia and the Aegean1,2, and most of the remainder from ancient populations related to those of the Caucasus3 and Iran4,5. However, the Mycenaeans differed from Minoans in deriving additional ancestry from an ultimate source related to the hunter–gatherers of eastern Europe and Siberia6–8, introduced via a proximal source related to the inhabitants of either the Eurasian steppe1,6,9 or Armenia4,9. Modern Greeks resemble the Mycenaeans, but with some additional dilution of the Early Neolithic ancestry. Our results support the idea of continuity but not isolation in the history of populations of the Aegean, before and after the time of its earliest civilizations.

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/nature23310_0.pdf[/FONT]
[SUB]
[/SUB]
[/FONT]
 
The origins of the Bronze Age Minoan and Mycenaean cultures have puzzled archaeologists for more than a century. We have assembled genome-wide data from 19 ancient individuals, including Minoans from Crete, Mycenaeans from mainland Greece, and their eastern neighbours from southwestern Anatolia. Here we show that Minoans and Mycenaeans were genetically similar, having at least three-quarters of their ancestry from the first Neolithic farmers of western Anatolia and the Aegean1,2, and most of the remainder from ancient populations related to those of the Caucasus3 and Iran4,5. However, the Mycenaeans differed from Minoans in deriving additional ancestry from an ultimate source related to the hunter–gatherers of eastern Europe and Siberia6–8, introduced via a proximal source related to the inhabitants of either the Eurasian steppe1,6,9 or Armenia4,9. Modern Greeks resemble the Mycenaeans, but with some additional dilution of the Early Neolithic ancestry. Our results support the idea of continuity but not isolation in the history of populations of the Aegean, before and after the time of its earliest civilizations.

https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/nature23310_0.pdf
[SUB][/SUB]


ok
thanks jovialis (y)
so that show that eurogenes k13 is not the best ....:unsure:
in mdlp k11 he also score basal ...
i guess those calculators can't handle ancient remains ....:unsure:
 
Distance to:I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Peloponnese
6.37029042C_Italian
7.88775000Greek
7.95893209S_Italian_Sicilian
8.38101426Sicilian
9.16374923Ashkenazi
9.51448370Ashkenazy_Jews
11.00157261TSI30
11.11255146Tuscan
13.05934914O_Italian
16.28627029Morocco_Jews
17.08722915Sephardic_Jews
18.65075334North_Italian
19.42515380N_Italian
20.72999276Bulgarian
21.00997382Canarias
21.27521093Bulgarians
22.25436137Romanians
23.81640191Murcia
24.66084751Baleares
24.87300947Andalucia
25.00129997Portuguese
25.24782367Sardinian
25.47632234Extremadura
25.50542295Galicia
26.99235077Castilla_Y_Leon

Hmmmm...this time Central Italians and then Greeks

This is my closest match among the Mycenaeans and Minoans.

13.48408692I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese
17.31640263I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese

I think it's my part Tuscan heritage which is pulling me closer, but I'm still too northern as a whole so I'm at a 13. After 19041 it gets into the 22s. Interestingly, I'm closer to the Greek Neolithic than to the Minoans.

As you said in one of your posts, the Mycenaeans vary a bit depending on the area. It looks to me like early, spotty admixture, which hadn't had time to homogenize. Some had more steppe, pulling them north, some less.

For what it's worth, in the very early days when Otzi's genome was released, the paper showed that after Sardinians, he was pretty close to certain Sicilians, which I interpreted to mean a lot of EEF with some Caucasus like dna, the latter of which Otzi also had.

Also, in very early days when they were trying to figure out who had a lot of EEF, Ashkenazi Jews turned out to have a lot of it, plus a good amount of Caucasus like dna.

What I'm getting at is that the Ashkenazim, because of their unique mixture of ancestry (EEF, Iran Neo/CHG, plus some steppe) turn out to be very similar to island Greeks, Southern Italian/Sicilians, and even "some", and I emphasize "some" Mycenaeans. I said until I was blue in the face that it didn't "necessarily" mean that all this "Jewish" dna went into the Southern Italian/Sicilian genome, no matter what some Calabrian rabbi convert, or old documents about Jews who converted might say, but in this "hobby", for various reasons, people believe what they want regardless...
 
it is probably a southern european gene flow
to the jews ( during 2000 years that we were in someone else backyard)
not the other way around
kind regards
adam
 
it is probably a southern european gene flow
to the jews ( during 2000 years that we were in someone else backyard)
not the other way around
kind regards
adam

kingjohn: I think your post, Angela's as well, are on target. What is the direction of causality? to think of it in Statistical/Regression language. What is the Y (Dependent variable) vs X (explanatory/independent variable) in explaining the admixture into Southern Italian/Sicilian, Greeks, Ashkenazi Jews. I agree it is Southern European Gene flow into certain Jewish populations, not the other way around. I know when I run distances on modern populations, Ashkenazi Jewish distances are much closer than other Diaspora Jewish populations (Sephardic for example) and other Levantine populations (Syrian, Lebanon, Jordanian, etc).
 
I do believe that the direction of flow is mainly Jewish men taking goyim wives. That can be verified by looking at mt and Y-DNA haplos.
 
7.36650528I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete
10.26614826I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Peloponnese
12.85325640I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese
15.57055233I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis
19.50467380I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese
23.41702372I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
23.84516303I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
24.32356882I2495_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province
24.56317976I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave
24.67506839I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
24.81119102I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
24.96022636I2499_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province
26.33523875I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
26.52846019I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
27.84392752I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
28.48974201I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
28.62323182I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
29.29516172I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
29.85156445I2683_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province
 
The issue is that no IBD segments of any consequence have been found between Ashkenazi Jews and Italians. Also, the mtDna, once you get down to a more granular level, doesn't really match.

My hunch is that a lot of the mixture actually took place in the Levant itself and in what used to be called Asia Minor, and so may be more ancient Greek like in origin.

That's just a hunch though. We need, as always, more ancient dna, not only from Israel at the appropriate time periods, but from Asia Minor, i.e. places like Antioch, Tarsus, Ephesus etc.
 

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