Less than half of French people think that cheating on one's partner is wrong

Maciamo

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President François Hollande engaged in a long tradition of French rulers to have (at least) one mistress in addition to his wife. President Mitterrand had an illegitimate daughter from a mistress. Nicolas Sarkozy went as far as to divorce his wife and marry his mistress while he was president. Mr Hollande did the same, but before being elected, and it has now come to light that he had been keeping a mistress almost as soon as he got elected president. While such an affair would have caused a huge scandal in the USA and many other countries, perhaps forcing the president to step down, it doesn't seem to bother French people too much.

In fact, the French have been far more accepting of infidelity than people in other countries for many centuries. Libertinage is an old French tradition. Powerful men are excepted to maintain mistresses (who are sometimes married too) and are easily forgiven for having illegitimate children with them. This is one of the reasons why paternity tests and any kind of DNA test which can identify a person's progenitors are prohibited in France, the only country in the world to have such a law. French politicians clearly do not want to have to pay child support for their bastards. Why else would such a preposterous law have been voted, in disrespect of fundamental Human Rights, in a morally lenient country that likes to think of itself as the cradle of Human Rights ?

A recent poll clearly shows that French people have a more forgiving attitude to cheating than any other nations on Earth. Only 47% of French people condemn unfaithfulness as morally unacceptable. This contrasts sharply with other Western countries where at least 60% agree that this is wrong. Even in Italy and Spain, the other cultures "Latin lovers" closely related to France, 64% of respondents are opposed to cheating on one's partner. In English-speaking countries this ranges from 76% in the UK and Canada to 84% in the USA.
 
One should be careful with French girls! :LOL:
 
Women fall for men with power.
Politicians are in love with their own ego.
 
In English-speaking countries this ranges from 76% in the UK and Canada to 84% in the USA.
I don't think people are very different from a country to another. Which is certainly different are is manner the media relate these affairs and how the common opinion reacts.
The 84% of the USA didn't prevent Clinton, Hyde, Flint and other American and British politicians to cheating on one's partner. (see Wiki article about the Lewinsky affair).
I think french people are less hypocritical.
Anyway, François Hollande is as much ridiculous as were Berlusconi and Clinton!
 
The actual cheating rate would still quite differ I'd bet, if not for France, at least for most other european countries.
 
I think the responses to the poll reflect the mentality of the respective population, not actual cheating. I bet a lot of people still think cheating is a criminal offence (and in some places it really is, as ridiculous as that sounds).
 
When the full study is released, it will be interesting to see the results by gender for the other countries, and by age as well, if they broke it out that way.

As for paternity testing in France, it's my understanding that the prohibition is against personal testing, but that judges can and do order it as part of paternity proceedings as well as divorces, so I doubt it has anything to do with not wanting to pay child support, or not being able to get child support payments.

Perhaps it has something to do with wanting to prevent situations where men arrange to do this kind of testing privately and their discovery of the infidelity has unfortunate consequences for the mother. After all, not all French men feel infidelity is morally neutral, and even for the ones that do, it might be another matter when it comes to having been deceived into rearing a child who is not their own.

It doesn't seem to stem from a societal concern with the rearing of children because the presumption that the child of a married couple is the child of the father has been part of the Code Napoleon since it became French law. For that matter, in common law countries following the British system like the U.S., the same principal is followed, although it was established through precedent rather than statute.
 
It's a bit misleading, because "not a moral issue" was an option. To me, it's reflective of French popular philosophy to say that any given thing is "not a moral issue," and with 40% of their respondents saying that, that definitely seems to be at play here. The distant second place country for saying that it is "not a moral issue" was Spain at 27%.

However, the French were not the most likely to say that cheating is "morally acceptable." 12% of them said that, and although that is on the high end, it is less than the Czech Republic (17%) and Chile (13%), and tied with Japan and Venezuela.
 
LOL Maciamo it's so ******* true!!!! French girls are total sluts even here in North America! It must be a genetic predisposition cause it's a real phenomenon as compared to English Canadian women; the French have tendencies towards heavy infidelity; so e times I wonder if French women are unable to create emotional bonds or something; from what my friends tell me there's something deffinetly wrong with these sluts.

What's the matter? Not getting any? Or do you just not like girls?
 
I don't think the issue is a simple yes/no. Here in Canada, there's generally strong disapproval of infidelity, but the public doesn't tend to punish politicians who do mess around. If fact, it used to be very much the case that the media just didn't report on such issues, although that's less true now. But it probably wouldn't end a politician's career in this country, the way it would in the U.S. And I suspect that would be the case in most European countries - people may disapprove of cheating, but that doesn't mean they want to punish public figures who have mistresses.
 
I don't think people are very different from a country to another. Which is certainly different are is manner the media relate these affairs and how the common opinion reacts.
The 84% of the USA didn't prevent Clinton, Hyde, Flint and other American and British politicians to cheating on one's partner. (see Wiki article about the Lewinsky affair).
I think french people are less hypocritical.
Anyway, François Hollande is as much ridiculous as were Berlusconi and Clinton!

The survey in link above asked directly people in various countries. They answered based on their own opinions, not that of the media.
 
When the full study is released, it will be interesting to see the results by gender for the other countries, and by age as well, if they broke it out that way.

Agreed.

As for paternity testing in France, it's my understanding that the prohibition is against personal testing, but that judges can and do order it as part of paternity proceedings as well as divorces, so I doubt it has anything to do with not wanting to pay child support, or not being able to get child support payments.

Perhaps it has something to do with wanting to prevent situations where men arrange to do this kind of testing privately and their discovery of the infidelity has unfortunate consequences for the mother. After all, not all French men feel infidelity is morally neutral, and even for the ones that do, it might be another matter when it comes to having been deceived into rearing a child who is not their own.

But why should a married woman who cheats on her husband and have another man's child be protected by the law ? The institution of marriage was created a long time ago almost for the sole purpose of assuring (as much as possible) a man that he is the father of his female partner's children. In a morally loose country like France where cheating is more common than average and people do accept it more easily too, it is all the more important for a man to have the right and means to verify that he is really the father of his wife's children. I believe that a man is much more likely to divorce or leave his wife if he harbours doubts about his paternity. Denying the right to paternity tests outside a court procedure is the best way to drive couples apart. A man who isn't 100% sure of his paternity also cannot provide the same unconditional love to his presumed children than a man who is certain. Knowing French sexual mores, what French man can truly say that he is 100% certain that his wife never ever cheated on him at least once ?

It is highly ironic that the French are the most tolerant of infidelity when they are the only ones denied the opportunity to verify a child's paternity. If any man can check that he is really the father of a child even before the child is born (as it is now possible), female infidelity immediately becomes less emotionally charged as the risks for the man disappear and only infidelity "only" becomes a matter of hurt feelings.

It doesn't seem to stem from a societal concern with the rearing of children because the presumption that the child of a married couple is the child of the father has been part of the Code Napoleon since it became French law. For that matter, in common law countries following the British system like the U.S., the same principal is followed, although it was established through precedent rather than statute.

Other European countries like Belgium inherited their legal system from the Napoleonic Code too, but France is really unique in its prohibition of paternity tests. The French legal system also prohibits assisted procreation for single women and lesbians, which is legal in most other Western Europeans countries. Last year there were mass protests with millions of people in the streets of many French cities when the government announced that they would legalise gay marriage. The majority of French people is also totally opposed to GM crops, legalising soft drugs like cannabis, legalising prostitution and many other social issues that are taken for granted in most of Western Europe (except Ireland, and to a lower extent Italy). In many ways the French are more traditional (yet far less religious) than the average Americans. What is amazing is the size of the gap in mentalities on these societal issues between France and French-speaking Belgium. It's almost like comparing Vermont (or California) and Louisiana (or Alabama) - Belgium being the former, liberal state, and France the ultra-conservative latter.
 
People with no values can exceed the limits. By many, many times. Heh; turns me on just thinking I live here.
 
Agreed.



But why should a married woman who cheats on her husband and have another man's child be protected by the law ? The institution of marriage was created a long time ago almost for the sole purpose of assuring (as much as possible) a man that he is the father of his female partner's children. In a morally loose country like France where cheating is more common than average and people do accept it more easily too, it is all the more important for a man to have the right and means to verify that he is really the father of his wife's children. I believe that a man is much more likely to divorce or leave his wife if he harbours doubts about his paternity. Denying the right to paternity tests outside a court procedure is the best way to drive couples apart. A man who isn't 100% sure of his paternity also cannot provide the same unconditional love to his presumed children than a man who is certain. Knowing French sexual mores, what French man can truly say that he is 100% certain that his wife never ever cheated on him at least once ?

It is highly ironic that the French are the most tolerant of infidelity when they are the only ones denied the opportunity to verify a child's paternity. If any man can check that he is really the father of a child even before the child is born (as it is now possible), female infidelity immediately becomes less emotionally charged as the risks for the man disappear and only infidelity "only" becomes a matter of hurt feelings.

I have no personal experience with the Napoleonic Code as it relates to divorce and paternity testing, so I don't know how, on a practical level, this would work in the French courts. That said, it probably isn't that different from how it works in a common law jurisdiction. The law expresses a societal concern first and foremost for the care and nurturing of children...the paramount issue is the well-being of the child.

So, a woman who bears a child while unmarried can petition a court for paternity testing in order to get child support. In a divorce proceeding, a man is presumed to be the father and is required to pay child support unless he contests paternity and requests dna testing. However, even if it is proved that he is not the biological father, that doesn't necessarily mean that he will not be liable for child support. In many states, the principal of equitable fatherhood then comes into play. If a man has acted as a father, provided monetary support, made health decisions, bonded with the child, the court, in its discretion, which is wide, could still mandate child support. Certainly, however, if the child was a newborn, for instance, that would weigh heavily on the scales.

I quite understand that some men might find such a result inequitable, but society's concern, as expressed through the various legislatures, is for the child. Also, if the child is not supported by the "acting father", then the state has to do so, which in effect means that all of the rest of us have to do so through the payment of taxes. Likewise, children raised by a single mother show higher rates of social pathology, which also has its costs.

(In real life, in my experience, a man who has reared and bonded with a child doesn't necessarily abandon that child in these circumstances. After all, the child is innocent. Indeed, what can and does happen at times is that the mother asks for the paternity testing in order to deny the father visitation and/or custody, and men can and do fight to retain custody.)

As to France, at least as I understand it, the only thing that is prohibited is for the husband/father to submit his own sample and a sample he takes from his child to a private company like 23andme, for example. I can certainly understand a man wanting to have that option. I don't know if there was discussion of the rationale for the prohibition, so I was speculating that perhaps it arose out of some concern for public order, and it was in that context that I meant that it was a concern for the protection of women. I don't doubt that some men might have a violent reaction to news of this sort. When done as part of a court proceeding, cooler heads might, although wouldn't necessarily, prevail. In any evident, if the French system operates like the American one, while he might choose to divorce under these circumstances, he might not be able to avoid child support, depending on the age of the child etc.

Btw, France is not the only jurisdiction that has limited access to this kind of testing. It has been talked about in the U.S. as well, although in the context of the health information. The concern is that the disease risks given by a company like 23andme are not reliable in the first instance, and, in addition, will cause panic in people who are incapable of assessing the information. As the U.S. is a federal system, different states have taken different views. For example, 23andme kits couldn't be mailed to or mailed from New York state. Now, of course, 23andme has been prohibited from providing the health information nationally pending review. Paternity could still be determined by the test, of course, but that hasn't been addressed.
 
Nah; mama can take care of boo-boo if she wants, dada gonna sprint towards the left real-quick.
 
I wouldn't pay for the child under divorce if it WAS mine; if it wasn't I'd be out of there so fast regardless.
 
(Looks up for a few slow seconds)......Oh s***! What is that; a plane?!?! Dada runs marathon-fast out the court room, never to be seen again.
 
So, a woman who bears a child while unmarried can petition a court for paternity testing in order to get child support. In a divorce proceeding, a man is presumed to be the father and is required to pay child support unless he contests paternity and requests dna testing. However, even if it is proved that he is not the biological father, that doesn't necessarily mean that he will not be liable for child support. In many states, the principal of equitable fatherhood then comes into play. If a man has acted as a father, provided monetary support, made health decisions, bonded with the child, the court, in its discretion, which is wide, could still mandate child support. Certainly, however, if the child was a newborn, for instance, that would weigh heavily on the scales.

This is getting funny...So hypothetically, if you leave someones wife pregnant, that man is going to raise the child because he does not know. Even if he is smart/detective and finds out, he still is the one who has to raise the kid. Isn't this a system that willfully or not favors cheaters and men that are "players".
 
This is getting funny...So hypothetically, if you leave someones wife pregnant, that man is going to raise the child because he does not know. Even if he is smart/detective and finds out, he still is the one who has to raise the kid. Isn't this a system that willfully or not favors cheaters and men that are "players".

Well, he doesn't have to raise the child, and if he finds out soon, I doubt that the court would require him to pay child support, but yes, if he finds out when the child is twelve, depending on the other circumstances, he might be required to provide some economic support.

Also, let's look at this realistically. Until very recently, there was no such thing as paternity testing. So, a certain percentage of men, higher or lower depending on the culture, have raised children who are not biologically their own. That's no doubt how this saying came about: It's a wise man who knows his own father.

It's not always slanted against men, either. Think of the many situations in the past where a man has fathered children outside marriage, and voluntarily made financial provisions for them, even if the money had initially been his wife's and would eat into the inheritance of her legitimate children. Today, it's not even dependent on the father's good will and sense of responsibility. He can father a child, and the mother can petition for child support and he and his legitimate family have to share their resources with the illegitimate child.
 
Well, he doesn't have to raise the child, and if he finds out soon, I doubt that the court would require him to pay child support, but yes, if he finds out when the child is twelve, depending on the other circumstances, he might be required to provide some economic support.

Also, let's look at this realistically. Until very recently, there was no such thing as paternity testing. So, a certain percentage of men, higher or lower depending on the culture, have raised children who are not biologically their own. That's no doubt how this saying came about: It's a wise man who knows his own father.

It's not always slanted against men, either. Think of the many situations in the past where a man has fathered children outside marriage, and voluntarily made financial provisions for them, even if the money had initially been his wife's and would eat into the inheritance of her legitimate children. Today, it's not even dependent on the father's good will and sense of responsibility. He can father a child, and the mother can petition for child support and he and his legitimate family have to share their resources with the illegitimate child.

The "player" guy always contributes to his own children thou, as opposed to the married guy who might contribute to someone elses. On the other hand, the woman also contributes only to her own children, except the very rare case when she is rich and her husband takes her money to give to his illegitimate children. I guess it comes down to if you see kids as a privilege or as a burden. If you see them as a responsibility/burden then being married is not the optimal solution for a man.
 

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