Life After Death

[LeBrok]

Of late i have found myself, every once in awhile, watching one of those ghost hunting shows. In America it seems every broadcast channel has a spirit searching group that TV cameras follow. I call it my religion shows. Can't say I've learned anything. Most of the time I become annoyed at what the guys and gals do. Why do they turn off the lights!? Now that they found "evidence", why don't they go back to that location over and over for more proof!? Obviously, if the "ghost scientists" ever found conclusive life after death evidence it would be earth shattering news.

What ever the answer, I figure the male jihadist has the sweetest after life deal of receiving 72 virgins. Religious scriptures have been known to make translation errors though. A 72 year old virgin wouldn't be so good.

Lol, I would go for 72 prostitutes, more fun and learning.


I don't believe in anything, not even one ghost or sole out there.
I'm also hoping that I'm wrong.

 

[Smertrius]

I'll post here, if I may, simply for the reason of superb random occurrence. I got a notice in my e-mail box of this above addition to this long dead thread--an event which has never happened (notice of a posting to a thread which I had posted in earlier from this forum), and being moved by such extreme rareness, have decided to respond.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, Smertrius, on the matter of having read the major posts in this thread, and then, will ask to you to firstly define/describe your terms a little more. The word 'ghost' usually refers to an immaterial portion which is the said 'real being,' which survives death (i.e. never dies). In your presentation, therefore, you are saying the same, it seems, but simply postulating that such is simply an 'echo' from past energy arrays/constructs. Is this correct, or does my understanding need adjustment?

I just answered the poll and gave my opinion, i didn't read the hundred posts of that thread.
I don't believe in the concept of soul or immaterial being that keeps on living after the death. I just think that some event can imprint the place in which they took place and be perceived like an echo of the past by these peoples we call mediums.

 

[Mars Man]

Thanks for your honest response, Smertrius; I appreciate that. I would tend to think, after pondering a little on the usually processes of 'mediums' and what they say and do, that we might have some trouble demonstrating the 'echo of history past' hypothesis. The main point being that, in that we would most likely have to hold an historical event as having a fixed pattern, there would hardly be any possibility of convergence with present events, names, knowledge--which (unless I am very wrong) is often enough what mediums tend to tell us?

Do you have an developed explanation of just what an 'echo' may be? That might be nice to hear.


Cambria Red, I have never heard of 'metempsychosis,' though I can basically grasp the likely concept behind 'soul transmigration.' Here, I would feel compelled to ask, is what might be a part of a 'soul,' or, what make-up is it that is a 'soul?' Also, what might be the difference between this and our general reincarnation concept?

 

[Gwyllgi]

I’m minded of an old limerick from my youth …

“We start out as somebody’s sperms,
We end being eaten by worms,
The bit in-between?
Short, nasty, and mean,
And full of diseases and germs!”

 

[LeBrok]

Life on Earth is one big recycling bin.

Lol, nice limerick Gwyllgi.

 

[Mars Man]

That is very much the case, LeBrok. On our larger, yet pragmatically limited level of analysis, the earth is one big recycle machine--from materials of earth (as in soil) to the plant life, to the animal life (bottom of food chain to the top), to materials of earth (as in soil), to further rearrangements. The H2O pretty much keeps its bonds, as far as I know, and simply has moved about between bodies of water to bodies of living things (as in the average 57% of the adult body weight) over the some near 4.5 billion years.

However, such IS the life that is after death--not of the particular build of brain that we ascribe to an individual, which, upon death is recycled into materials of earth. Yes, I agree, a nice little poem to keep in mind there.

 

[Smertrius]

Do you have an developed explanation of just what an 'echo' may be? That might be nice to hear.

Roughly, i think that places or objects can be "charged" by strong emotions experienced by peoples, and that those "charges" keep resounding like an echo that mediums perceive when they talk about their "visions".

 

[LeBrok]

Do you realise how many millions of people were in certain places, not mentioning billions of animals and their emotions. You would pick up at least thousands if not billions of "charges" at once. You wouldn't be able to differentiate them, it would look like a static on TV....and completely useless, not mentioning impossible.

 

[Smertrius]

Yes I do realise it.
But what I do realise too, is that there are strange phenomenas that do happen; I personally never saw any ghost but I know someone who had have premonitory dreams, that's another topic, I know, but what I mean is that there must be explications to these paranormal phenomenas and that's the best explication I see in the case of ghosts.

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

Thanks for your honest response, Smertrius; I appreciate that. I would tend to think, after pondering a little on the usually processes of 'mediums' and what they say and do, that we might have some trouble demonstrating the 'echo of history past' hypothesis. The main point being that, in that we would most likely have to hold an historical event as having a fixed pattern, there would hardly be any possibility of convergence with present events, names, knowledge--which (unless I am very wrong) is often enough what mediums tend to tell us?
Do you have an developed explanation of just what an 'echo' may be? That might be nice to hear.
Cambria Red, I have never heard of 'metempsychosis,' though I can basically grasp the likely concept behind 'soul transmigration.' Here, I would feel compelled to ask, is what might be a part of a 'soul,' or, what make-up is it that is a 'soul?' Also, what might be the difference between this and our general reincarnation concept?

Metempsychosis is pretty much the equivalent of soul transmigration. The term is perhaps an extension and refinement of Shopenhauer's notion of "will" primacy.

My interpretation of metempsychosis is that it involves the transfer of consciousness energy from an expired person to a newly born one. The new consciousness, however, is a tabula rasa devoid of influences from the old consciousness.

 

[LeBrok]

There are more people now than ever, therefore there are not enough old souls to go around. Who creates new souls? Who decides who gets new soul or used one? If they are created from nothing, they might as well dissipate into nothing after death.

 

[Mars Man]

Metempsychosis is pretty much the equivalent of soul transmigration. The term is perhaps an extension and refinement of Shopenhauer's notion of "will" primacy.

Thanks for getting back with me on that, Cambria Red. Now that you mention the 'will' matter, I do seem to have some very, VERY vague recall of having seen some mention of that in the past...but not worthy of saying I actually recall it.

My interpretation of metempsychosis is that it involves the transfer of consciousness energy from an expired person to a newly born one. The new consciousness, however, is a tabula rasa devoid of influences from the old consciousness.

Here, I'm afraid, we are going to run into problems with the hypothesis of that line of philosophy. Besides that of the immediately above post, we will surely find that trying to pin a state of having consciousness on energy--so as to allow a transfer of energy to equal a transfer of such a state--is going to be worse than grasping at well greased piglets at the county fair.

We will find the state of having consciousness as an upper limit above a general 'threshold' of conscious (neuronal activity at large), with various degrees of potential for different brain conditions. We can fully sever the commissures between the left and right hemispheres, and end up with two states of having consciousness (however so unnoticable to the observer, and the patients themselves [in most cases]).

We will find that we have consciousness content, and that would have to either be transfered along with consciousness--according to that hypothesis, it would seem--or either neatly set aside somehow. I'm not sure of how that'd work. Of course the Tabla Rasa hypothesis has been shown quite inaccurate, along with the Ghost in the Machine hypothesis, so we'd have to test for other avenues in that sense--and I'd say that neurosciences are doing that now.

It would seem to me, therefore, from what you have provided, that the term 'soul' in that philosophical stance would equate the state of having consciousness. If that is the case, then we're much more evidently looking a biological function which ceases with the breakdown of process. Energy may do whatever it does, quantum processes go on, but the content of having a state of consciousness decomposes--as best can be ascertained with good, empirical, and pragmatically based evidence gathered through the scientific methodology.

 

[Carlos]

The sky exists, I have motives for believing it. Years ago I had a frontal traffic accident, I was going of co-pilot, nothing happened to me, the driver took the worst part. A few hours after the accident it was knocked down in the bed when suddenly a hand that was going out of under the bed was taking possession of me touching all my body, principally pectoral me, of that time I could not move only one muscle of my body, was trying to ask for help my mother and grandmother that they were in the kitchen, but it was useless. In this moment I asked for help with urgency of a way as earlier it had never done it and although it should seem to you incredible a telephone tone entered action, suddenly a low throne cloak appeared, it was empty, it was of a very ancient wood, it was empty and then they began to project one me behind another multitude of slides with paradisiac places, without to be equal it could be the most similar thing to the South American vegetation, water cascades, vegetacción leafy, they were hundreds of images one after other one, there came a moment in which I was already full of so many slide and finally I could move. It neither was asleep it nor was a sleep, for this motive I believe that the sky exists.

 

[Franco]

I don't know if there exists something after death, but it must be the same than there is before birth and conception.

 

[LeBrok]

It's hard for people to imagine "not to be anymore after death". They say "it's impossible not to exist anymore, it's impossible that I won't feel anything or think anything anymore. That your whole personality and mind disappears." It's even hard for me to conceive not remembering anything.
To imagine how it will be then, let's ask ourselves: "Do we remember anything before our birth?" Well, it's going to be exactly the same after our death."

 

[Kardu]

The question is no matter if there is some kind of existence after death, would our belief or non-belief in afterlife change anything about it?

 

[Raiden]

I find the idea of nothing after death strangely comforting... All in all I believe that we have a set time to do what we must and achieve as much as we can. The world will keep going and in all reality, it won't notice our absence.

 

[Riccardo]

I believe that it will be like before my birth. Do I have idea about it? No. Can someone explain it? No. It will be the same...

 

[Carlos]

I believe that it will be like before my birth. Do I have idea about it? No. Can someone explain it? No. It will be the same...

I think nobody can explain, it would be more a matter of faith.

 

[Riccardo]

I think nobody can explain, it would be more a matter of faith.

Well, if you have it. I consider faith something born in the human mind for various reasons, so I can't believe in what they say about "heaven" or "hell".