Light skin allele of SLC24A5 gene was spread by the Indo-Europeans (R1a + R1b)

[Nobody1]

I wouldn't bet money on the numbers being totally precise; for example, it's a little counter-intuitive in terms of the numbers for Genova vs. Rome. Rome being the large university city that it is, you might have students from the north as well as the south.

However, the big picture seems correct. I think the numbers correlate very well to some maps for solar radiation in Europe.

Look, for instance, at this map:
http://www.greenrhinoenergy.com/solar/radiation/images/SolarGIS-Solar-map-Europe-en.jpg

Then look at this map for the incidence of 374f in Europe from the Lucotte et al paper. I think there's a remarkable correspondence.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2013/03/slc45a21.png

After the initial spread, it looks like selection has taken place based on environmental factors, and perhaps later more minor population flows from people further south.

I agree with that - see it the same; There is a clear cline between North Europe and South Europe and that might infact be a crucial aspect to it;

 

[Wilhelm]

Exactly;
Those figures are UV radiation exposure (i.e. tanning levels) and they tested it (to avoid it as much) on the inner-upper arm - that says it all;
PS: do you really think alleles are sun exposed as opposed to the upper arm?
Since you are such a fan of UV radiation here are a few other studies based on the same method;

Jablonski - 2000 study - skin tone map on p.76
http://www2.bgsu.edu/departments/ch...em447/PDF_files/Jablonski_skin_color_2000.pdf

Precisely the study of Jablonski gives spanairds a lighter skin than many other Western Europeans :

http://anthrospain.blogspot.com.es/2011/08/skin-reflectance-of-selected-world.html

 

[Nobody1]

Looks like LeBrok was spot on;
Mention the Moors and the Celt-Iberians come charging out; LOL

 

[Wilhelm]

Looks like LeBrok was spot on;
Mention the Moors and the Celt-Iberians come charging out;

It's not our fault if you are bloody ignorants. The map at page 76 is based on PREDICTION, how strange you didn't mention the actual OBSERVED statistics on the tables at page 75, givin spanairds a lighter shade than some Western Europeans...

 

[ElHorsto]

First this: The fact that Chinese, Koreans and Japanese developed lighter skin with different genes involved than Europeans basically points to evolutionary pressure. So what would that be? Most probably vitamin D. Apart from Rachitis a number of diseases seem to be affected by vitamin D deficiency:

http://anthrogenetics.wordpress.com/2010/10/22/evolution-of-vitamin-d-pathyway-genes/

The list has a number of interesting health issues. Lower fertility, higher mortality, infectious diseases. Now, as far as I understand the part of mankind that departed Africa carried for a large part a number of genes that give lighter skin. This feature is shared with East-asians , Indian and Amerindians. Apparently this is enough "lightening" of the skin for hunter gatherers as American Indians basically carry these. Off course, hunter gatherers eat basically game and fish, which is relatively rich in vitamin D. Especially if you'd eat fish liver. So, we have a number light skinned genes that allow for more sunlight to reach the skin to make vitamin D, but not yet the light skin of European. Remember that the Loschbourg mesolthic hunter-gatherer does not share any of these specifically European light skin genes with us, even if he possibly had blue eyes.

Now the neolithic revolution kicks in. The amount of available food is high but it's mostly cereals. So far less vitamin D enters the body via food. Since farming is considered to be related to the emerging of a number infectious diseases the notion that vitamin D is highly involved in immune system evolutionary pressure for more light skin is quite relevant. It is also noteworthy that in similar environment both Europeans and East-Asians, heavy cereal using agricultural cultural conglomerates, develop genes for lighter skin independently, whereas the mostly hunter-gatherer American Indians do not. That may serve as evidence for neolithic selective pressure.

So, whatever the scenario that brought in the mentioned mutations, I am beginning to get the idea that evolutionary selective pressure assured the ascendancy to 100% of the current genetic make up.

Things can be so simple. I remember once reading an article in popular science few years ago claiming that whites are just deficit mutants and thus should not feel superior (political correctness alert!). Perhaps the unnecessary PC undertone of this hypothesis prevented it from being more widely accepted.
Seriously, I (and others) once issued suspicion that european whiteness necessarly was modal in mesolithic europeans because the glaciers stretched farther south in europe than in asia and because the Saami are much darker in average than south Scandinavians, despite the latter show considerable EEF admixture. There you go, the Saami are the last hunter-gatherers of europe. But honestly I was surprised that the one hunter-gatherer turned out to be even darker than neolithic farmers. I rather expected light skin mutation to have come from central asia to europe. But we'll see, additional samples will come and prove or disprove.
Otherwise, dark skin has an additional less known advantage which is to protect from bacterial inflammations.

 

[Nobody1]

It's not our fault if you are bloody ignorants. The map at page 76 is based on PREDICTION, how strange you didn't mention the actual OBSERVED statistics on the tables at page 75, givin spanairds a lighter shade than some Western Europeans...

Those PREDICTIONs (as clearly stated) are based on the RESULTs of a linear-regression model in which Skin-reflectance UVMED was used; I might be ignorant but not stupid or blind to read a study; unlike some other people;

So take a good look at the map at p.76 and the charted results of it; Mr. Celt Iberian;

 

[Wilhelm]

Those PREDICTIONs (as clearly stated) are based on the RESULTs of a linear-regression model in which Skin-reflectance UVMED was used; I might be ignorant but not stupid or blind to read a study; unlike some other people;

So take a good look at the map at p.76 and the charted results of it; Mr. Celt Iberian;

All right...You didn't understand anything about the study or you don't want to understand. The map says it clear : based on "predicted results". Now look at the table in the previous page, where they compare this very same predicted results versus the actual observed results, now why are you not looking at that table ?

 

[Nobody1]

All right...You didn't understand anything about the study or you don't want to understand. The map says it clear : based on "predicted results". Now look at the table in the previous page, where they compare this very same predicted results versus the actual observed results, now why are you not looking at that table ?

 

[Drac II]

Looks like LeBrok was spot on;
Mention the Moors and the Celt-Iberians come charging out; LOL

More like we are right and all a t-r-o-l-l has to do is mention "Moors" and "Spain" for you and your protector (LeBrok) to show up and then start accusing Iberians of "complexes" when in fact it only reflects your own, LOL!

 

[Nobody1]

More like we are right and all a t-r-o-l-l has to do is mention "Moors" and "Spain" for you and your protector (LeBrok) to show up and then start accusing Iberians of "complexes" when in fact it only reflects your own, LOL!

Put a mirror to it;
Exactly the other way around;
You need to disgrace the Italians with your filth in order to get off on your wet-dream about being not South European or just like the British; Bizarre nonsense;

 

[Aberdeen]

Those olive skinned folk certainly are touchy, but I don't know why. I wish I had some Moorish ancestry, so I could walk outside under a hot summer sun without getting a sunburn.

 

[Drac II]

Exactly;
Those figures are UV radiation exposure (i.e. tanning levels) and they tested it (to avoid it as much) on the inner-upper arm - that says it all;
PS: do you really think alleles are sun exposed as opposed to the upper arm?

Once again, learn to read, because it is clearly telling you why that region of the body was chosen for the measurements: to avoid the "tanning" that you desperately want to use as an excuse. This is a standard practice since at least the 19th century anthropology. Catch up.

Since you are such a fan of UV radiation here are a few other studies based on the same method;

Jablonski - 2000 study - skin tone map on p.76
http://www2.bgsu.edu/departments/ch...em447/PDF_files/Jablonski_skin_color_2000.pdf

Rindermann et al 2012 - Chemnitz Uni. p.11
https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/haprinderm.pdf

p.11 - Skin bright:
Norway - 1.57
Sweden - 1.57
Iceland - 1.57
Slovenia - 1.57
Netherlands - 1.49
Germany - 1.48
Czech Rep. - 1.42
---
Albania - 1.27
Italy - 1.27
Bulgaria - 1.27
Ukraine - 1.27
---
Cyprus - 1.12
Spain - 1.19
Greece - 1.12
Portugal 1.12

YAWN!!! You already tried misusing the same "maps" and papers in that thread about skin pigmentation, and all your specious manipulations were exposed already there:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...outhern-Europe?p=411751&viewfull=1#post411751

Ah the excuses and relativations again i.e. complete fiction;
This is what Botigue et al had to say herself:

North African samples that have highest IBD sharing with Iberian populations also tend to have the lowest proportion of the European cluster in ADMIXTURE(Fig.1), e.g. Saharawi, Tunisian, Berbers and South Moroccans. This suggests that gene flow occurred from Africa to Europe rather than the other way around.

And the most massive gene flow from Africa to Iberia (Spain) was the Moorish invasion and occupation for hundreds of years;

Again, the only one trying to manipulate and come up with excuses is you, since you desperately want the "Moors" to have had a huge impact on Iberians. A "suggestion" is not definitive proof, and to top it off the authors dated the IBDs to possibly as recent as only a couple hundred years. This has already been dealt with before, as usual with your silly t-r-o-l-l-i-n-g:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...and-Viticulture-OFF-TOPIC?p=415171#post415171

As for Lazaridis et al - the chart says it all; Certain elements are virtually absent in the rest of South Europe but an integral (every single sample tested positive for it) in Spain; Obviously the Moorish legacy; You might want to look at K=20 again Canary islands are separate - and you do know that each stripe indicates a sample and its individual admixture?;

Once again, the "obviously" is only in your desperate imagination since the authors themselves pointed out the larger Spanish sample size as an explanation, say nothing of any "Moorish legacy" and dated the DNA in question to long before even Islam existed. Keep trying.

 

[Drac II]

Put a mirror to it;
Exactly the other way around;
You need to disgrace the Italians with your filth in order to get off on your wet-dream about being not South European or just like the British; Bizarre nonsense;

"Disgrace" Italians? Funny, you sound exactly like that "Italian friend" of yours who got banned for his dumb t-r-o-l-l-i-n-g against Iberians in a thread that also "coincidentally" was your "debut" here in these forums soon after he got banned. If there is anything said about Italians around here it is actually because you and a couple of deranged Italians who think that northern Italy is "The Land of Odin Himself" go around spewing "filth" (as you put it) against Iberians any time you can. The "mirror" is all for you, bud.

 

[Nobody1]

Once again, learn to read, because it is clearly telling you why that region of the body was chosen for the measurements: to avoid the "tanning" that you desperately want to use as an excuse. This is a standard practice since at least the 19th century anthropology. Catch up.

Im catching up; in fact just stumbled over these Anthropological maps;

Coon -
http://imageshack.us/a/img191/8199/coon1.png
Lundman -
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7VYUS39sX...aKs/s1600/maps-europefair-berthildlundman.jpg
Brace - 1973
http://pages.globetrotter.net/peter_frost61z/Old-World1.jpg

But You know it all Drac II even better than the scientists themselves;

 

[Nobody1]

"Disgrace" Italians? Funny, you sound exactly like that "Italian friend" of yours who got banned for his dumb t-r-o-l-l-i-n-g against Iberians in a thread that also "coincidentally" was your "debut" here in these forums soon after he got banned. If there is anything said about Italians around here it is actually because you and a couple of deranged Italians who think that northern Italy is "The Land of Odin Himself" go around spewing "filth" (as you put it) against Iberians any time you can. The "mirror" is all for you, bud.

Perfect example of your paranoia; might want to put a mirror to that as well;
Exactly (couldnt be any more) the exact opposite;

Did you notice the diff. between you and your Celt-Iberian friends and Angela, Sile and Adamo?
Clearly shows whose deranged and driving a Celt-Iberian, anti South Europe, we are just like the British agenda; Its you;

 

[kamani]

The funny thing about this whole discussion of EEF bringing white skin to Europe is that EEF were mostly E-V13, E-M123, and J. God has a twisted sense of humor...

Considering "The Moors", I haven't read much about their genetic impact, but to solve the question one can look at E-M81 traces.

 

[Angela]

The funny thing about this whole discussion of EEF bringing white skin to Europe is that EEF were mostly E-V13, E-M123, and J. God has a twisted sense of humor...

Considering "The Moors", I haven't read much about their genetic impact, but to solve the question one can look at E-M81 traces.

Well, so far we've had one E-V13, one I2a, (that line might have been absorbed in the Balkans) and the rest have all been G2a3. No "J" has shown up to the party at all yet, in terms of the ancient Neolithic.

Who knows what the next samples will show, however. It's all been nothing but surprises so far.

 

[Sile]

Perfect example of your paranoia; might want to put a mirror to that as well;
Exactly (couldnt be any more) the exact opposite;

Did you notice the diff. between you and your Celt-Iberian friends and Angela, Sile and Adamo?
Clearly shows whose deranged and driving a Celt-Iberian, anti South Europe, we are just like the British agenda; Its you;

Let "nationalistic" Drac say the nationalistic lies that all nations teach their populace .........his agenda is to be included as a catalan into "northern Europe", but his issue is that he wants to bring the rest of Spain with him ( the Castilian and others lower south). He cannot distinguish that north Spain is different from south Spain same as Italy, Germany, Britain, France and many many more nations. His main problem is his Nationalistic views are to be ignored............you can never have a decent discussion with a nationalistic person.

 

[Sile]

Perfect example of your paranoia; might want to put a mirror to that as well;
Exactly (couldnt be any more) the exact opposite;

Did you notice the diff. between you and your Celt-Iberian friends and Angela, Sile and Adamo?
Clearly shows whose deranged and driving a Celt-Iberian, anti South Europe, we are just like the British agenda; Its you;

What are you referring too?

 

[Knovas]

Did you notice the diff. between you and your Celt-Iberian friends and Angela, Sile and Adamo?

The difference is no one seems to worry much about Italy (or Greece for instance). Is it the same for Iberia? Obviously not, even a child can see it. Don't pretend you've never noticed such trend, I don't think you're that silly.

Oh wait, I am Iberian...my opinion has no value lol. Sometimes I understand why some people left the forum.