McCain-Obama meeting on Syria

Seriosuly u are going to defend china and north korea and somehow say their life is better than south koreans. This is such a stupid argument i will just ask u to research urself. I have meet many south Koreans and their lives are just as well off as Americans and are gratful we helped and look at america as a close friend.
Seriously I am.

America fought for south vietnam so that they would not be conquered by a evil oppressive north Vietnamese soviet supported government. The war was just stop trying to pose america as having these dark secret evil imperialistic intentions.
But why are they acting like that then? Why aren't they like Sweden, Brazil or Australia? Minding their own business, and let UN initiate actions?

What i know is Iraq under saddem tried to conquer Kuwait and the UN stopped him.
The story is always much more complicated than what officials say. Those civilizations exist there for like 5000 years and there is constant turmoil, yet US is always making it look like "it started one hour ago when one kid stole a toy from another". Majority of US citizens are uneducated, they know nothing about world history and geography and they are lazy to read books, and that's why they take official explanations for granted.

No but u know what i mean i dont think we need to argue if Soviet Union, China, Veitnam, and north korea were good guys or bad guys so thats why i call them communist bad guys. Dont u know what the cold war is it was not USSR defending agianst america advance and american oppression it was america defending agianst communist oppersion and conquering and oppression of people in eastern Europe and asia. They were the bad guys we were the good guys any one from Europe, latin america, africa whatever would agree with that. It was good guys aka the free world in Europe and America against the bad guys aka the communist.

Well, you think that communist are bad but on the other hand, while you think that, US is trying to take over the world and impose it's definition of the world to all. I was never threatened by any communist country. They've never told me how I should live or what I should do. On the other hand western 'democrats' are desperate to enforce that their law clauses pass into our Constitution, and they are usually for the bad of people and for the good of their corporations. I can only agree that it is most beneficial for US citizens, and I can see that there is no reason for you to saw off the branch you're sitting on.

If i was a politician i would study and know the specific's of the wars politicians aren't idiots they have incredible educations and its their job to know that stuff. And yes America intention was good but i doubt we fought the wars as best as we could.
Yes, they are very well informed, educated and skilled. They are working for the benefit of US, as I stated up.

America=good soviet union=bad END OF STORY.
Warshaw Pact and Soviet Union fell apart 2 decades ago. I don't hear anyone mentioning of NATO dismantling, or US falling apart. I guess you're still 20th century cold war state of mind.
 
The story is always much more complicated than what officials say. Those civilizations exist there for like 5000 years and there is constant turmoil, yet US is always making it look like "it started one hour ago when one kid stole a toy from another". Majority of US citizens are uneducated, they know nothing about world history and geography and they are lazy to read books, and that's why they take official explanations for granted.

Actylley no Iraq is not descended from Babylon or whatever maybe genetically but that's it. There now all Muslims islam spread and conquered the mid east and north Africa in the middle ages. So these rivals aren't that old. Just like with Europe and Rome u don't see people in Europe worshiping Thor or doing human sacrifice or doing any traditional things they did 2,000ybp same story with the mid east. Right now Europe is in what i call the Roman Christian era over 2,000ybp west Europe was in the iron-bronze Germanic Italo Celtic era. It is really complicated but the culture and traditions of tribes and nations that were not Rome pretty much died out same thing happened to the mid east from what i know with Islam. Alot changes throughout history modern Iraqis probably have very little knowledge as much or less than the average american on the ancient middle east.

It is dumb how western people assume since the mid east is the birth place of civilization the Bible is set there and the people seem so ancient because they wear turbins that somehow they come straight fro Babylon its not true. They have changed pretty much as much as Europe has.

America is one of the more educated countries in the world. Ur obviously showing some hate for america finally u are being honest.
 
Ike i am freaking sick or restarted responses that are just full of hate towards america ur to stubborn to agree with anything that does not say america is evil. Just look it up North Koreans lives suck compared to south Korea same with all of those Communist countries. America is not trying to take over the world. We have helped the world in many ways we are the biggest creator of the modern free world and we created so much of modern technology and pop culture people like america's stuff that's why it spread we did not force it. I love my country so i will always point out mistakes and want them to be corrected i wont defend certain things my country does if it is wrong. I am sick of talking with u ur to stubborn to admit America is not this evil country u think it is. I cant believe u defend north korma. soviet union, and all the other communist who are BAD GUYS period look up the stats ur self. U should see America as ur friend if u look at our forigen policy all we do is try to help countures and help keep human rights and protect and support countries like ur's.
 
America is one of the more educated countries in the world. Ur obviously showing some hate for america finally u are being honest.

You mean imported educated US citizens? From Moldavia, China, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Serbia, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Poland, Slovakia, etc...

I'm perfectly aware how you do what you do, but it's still a fact that US born children have little or no knowledge about history and geography. They have proven it many times, and that is not my fault. I bet 95 % of your friends can't find France or Sweden on the map.

Why do you say I hate America? I have nothing against US. They have some problems with the rest of the world and I'm just pointing that out. If they didn't have their troops in almost all states of the world in the last 100 years we wouldn't be having this conversation.

P.S. I can't see US as my friend, when it bombed my country with depleted uranium, which will eventually kill lots of inhabitants of Serbia, Balkan, mostly Kosovo (Albanians will suffer the most) their own troops, and UN peace-keepers in large numbers. They never even said they're sorry.
 
Most people would be able to find Sweden and France on a map. But yes it does surprise me how little most know about Geography but there are imported Korean kids in my school they are not any better and in history class could not answer key part of their countries history. But what we learn in history class and geography is pretty good of course most people don't remember it but the school system gives a pretty good idea about human history and american history. America is one of the more educated countries in the world. The people who get the worst education are inner city kids who have terrible schools and the kids don't care. People in the middle of ghettos don't understand that they have just as much of an ability to be successful if they work hard as a rich suburban kid. Which is an example of how great capitalism is which is one of the founding things in America and what has helped it the most.

From what i know the best Unvirsites are in America for example the Ivy league and Notre Dame and University of Chicago. So ur Yugoslavian i am not lying right no I have had some Yugoslavian friends growing up and Yugoslavian neighbors for most of my live. Someone i went to school with a Muslim Yugoslavian his aunt and uncle were executed on TV by Serbians and there were Serbians in the same class. They all had mentioned that war it is the reason most of them came to America and all came in the 1990's. I don't understand the whole conflict just it was an ethnic thing Croations on Serbians and Serbians on Bosnians etc. but i don't anything after that. Also that there were genocides and tons of killings and that it went on for a while like in Syria and that the UN came in late. U need to understand America wanted to help people u cant except them to create magical bombs that only kill ur enemies. I am sure if the UN did not get in many many more Yugoslavians would die. I dont know the whole thing with the uranium. That is not a reason though to say the UN's intention to end the war was wrong. Without those troops there would be alot less peace in the world america is NOT the imperialistic power u think it is and u cant twist thinks and lie about America's intentions in war's. If they did not say sorry and do something about accedentley killing citizens i think that's wrong.
 
Have you got evidence related to Assad gassing? I think, you haven't. We watched only fabricated footage on youtube. It is unthinkable to persuade society that Assad used chemical weapon against own people.
It's even more unthinkable that rebels used chemical weapon on themselves.
Are you still sure of your conclusion after UN report?
Gas came in ground to ground rockets from NW direction. Now even more evidence points to Assad.
 
You're the one who purposely involved WW2 where whole world was in and made a confusion. You know very well that I was initially talking about other US wars. Random thoughts? :) Duhh...

I've never said that US lost any war. It is not about the victory or defeat. It is not about how you interpreted the outcome - do Vietnamese think they won, or do Americans, I simply don't care. I'm talking about situation down on Earth. I don't care about mental interpretations of people involved.
I guess, now we have to stick to only your mental interpretation of US wars. How objective...


Where the heck have you seen that I ever said that US lost any war?! From my every post you can clearly see that it pulled off almost everything it could from every war involved.
Sorry, I didn't have a clue that you've set the rules and interpretations.
Go cherry pick.


Why are you saying this? I know that. I already talked about that in my previous post. You think that came for free? Do YOU know how economy works, and why US got enormously richer after every WW?
US was already biggest and richest economy even before the war, so there is no secret that they were still the richest 6 years later. Considering the fact that only US, from all the big economies didn't have the war on their soil and didn't get bombed and ruined, they surely stayed even richer when compared to destroyed Europe and Asia after the war. And yet they rushed with money to help Europe with Marshal Plan.

If you label those actions as help, it can be also said that US helped Hitler during.
Why not talk about Communist Russia helping Hitler. At least we have a clean cut communist government helping Hitler and not just few private companies doing business in Germany.


Yeah, so would Germans be stuck in Poland, if there was not for US petrol.
I'm sure they would be stuck in Serbia too, and you would be none existent. If you believe the words of the greatest soviet general Zhukov, then you should thank the US for saving your parents lives and yours. He said that Russia wouldn't survived without US help. I guess you know better than Zhukov about this subject.

t seems you just hate Russia. It doesn't have anything with communism.
I hate communism because I was born and had to live in it. I don't hate Russia or Russians. I have Russian friends.

You seem to be obsessed with money. And you value peoples lives with amount money they have. What's with that? I don't get it. You should seriously address that. Don't do it anymore - for your own sake, for your kids sake and for world prosperity sake. Change is slow, but possible.
Another wrong assumption of yours. You are wrong about me as you are wrong about US and economy in general. I said this:
It's not about money, it's about production!


I've already told you everything about those wars. Let me start again, and concentrate on what's most important.
"Same outcome - more dead than in any other solution, country infrastructure and economy destroyed, industry exhausted and in possession of foreign corporations, imposed governments that serves US interests, youth indoctrinated and Usianized and military bases closer to Russia and China."
Why are you ignoring good stories like Japan, West Germany, South Korea. All prosperous and with US bases on them. You should conclude that having US bases is good for countries, wouldn't you? Isn't it a pattern? Look at all the countries which kicked US out, like Vietnam and Iraq. Still poor.

Yeah, the west Germany was scorched ? Did they build all those 18/9th century building and bridges after WW2. There was almost no war in west Germany. US and UK never really fought Hitler. What happened at Dunkirk?
Yes, nothing was as devastated as East Germany after soviet steamroller when through. West Germany got help from US with Marshal Plan, but East Germany's factories were stripped from all the machines and were taken by Soviets to Russia. You were lucky Soviets didn't "liberate" Yugoslavia.

I don't believe what aggressor says. Like we didn't believe Hitler, we should not believe Americans. Why do you? You always believe what someone says to you? I don't think so. So, why do you take for granted the 'vindications for war'?
Assuming that aggressor or stronger country only lies is illogical, same as believing that poor country only says truth.
I don't even assume that you lie, I'm assuming that you see the world differently. From my point of view (as per latest example) your assumptions are way off and you are jumping in conclusion based more on your emotions than logic.



Sadly but it isn't. There has been CIA organized revolution in Serbia, and they got hold of the government in 2000.
Again you're jumping in conclusions lead by your feelings. Logically, there is no benefit for US to disestablished Middle East. Oil prices will go up and this is counter productive to US economy. One of main reasons US attacked Iraq and Afghanistan was to bring stability in Middle East, to make sure oil is produced with lowest prices possible. Saddam already caused two wars there, and Taliban and Al Qaeda's goal was to bring Islamic "revolution" to all Middle East, and the world. Both cases very positive to high oil prices.

Yes, but US is the one who is starting them all.
Wrong memory. Japan attacked US first, North Korea invaded South, South and North vietnamese communists were attacking South Vietnam government forces, Iraq attacked Kuwait, Al Qaeda attacked US. Can't you see that in most of the cases US is being attacked first?

So it's all about free market? Where US can dominate the market with it's enormous wealth that it made in big wars?
Please, enlighten us with numbers how much money US made on Iraq war, or Afghanistan war. Don't forget to subtract the costs of war. Otherwise I'm going to treat this as another conspiracy of yours.



They just want the resources. Why are you thinking that money has a certain magical value, and that it is valued more that real, material, perceptible goods like cocaine or heroin? They print money....on HP and Epson printer. They don't care about deficit. That number of $12343245 is of no importance. It is important that you have actual control on the field.
This number of no importance now is killing Greece and Portugal, and soon can strangle Italy and Spain. If real life shows you examples that numbers matter, how come you keep thinking that they don't. Life shows you otherwise but you keep believing it.
It is like not believing in gravity, because people fly to space and to the moon. After all, gravity is just the number, 9.81 m/s2



You obviously haven't even seen the video I've sent you. By saying things like this, you've proven that you have absolutely no idea what has happened on the territory of Yugoslavia. With you being like that, there is no point of speaking about the subject. Are you ever going to inform yourself?
My knowledge of Yugoslavia is not better than yours about the world.


Yes, I know that economy that West created is about money and production.
You know wrong. It is about production, money is a tool to exchange products and services more efficiently. Economy can exist without money, it is called bartel market. How do you think people traded before money was invented?

If you don't produce, you make no money and you die, just like sharks - when they stop swimming they die. They got you in debts, and once you lose your job you're out. That's why you have to be humble to your superiors, that made it possible for you to keep your house, your wife and your kids. That's why you work all day till dusk while some other go to Bahamas.
In Canada we work hard and then we go Bahamas to rest. Nothing wrong with this. Maybe you should change your country to more capitalistic one, where things work better for people?

Speaking about economy you also forgot to mention the surplus/deficit relation. Because some countries live in wealth other countries have no food.
Let me stress it again, we have a lot because we produce. Canada produces 4 times more food we can eat. Surprisingly we never had a colony to steal from. Actually we were a British colony, so according to your theory of deficit, we should be poor and dieing, right? Please drop these crazy books you are reading. They are confusing you.


You look like a Darwinist who thinks that better and stronger should survive, while others should die, and you're pestering me about communism because I think that those people should be given peace and food.
These are two separate things. One can understand how the world works, what is best economy, how to stay strong, how cruel the mother nature is, or people in this respect. However it doesn't mean one doesn't have humane and social feelings and be a loving father, helpful friend, sending aid to Africa, be a productive member of society, pay taxes and be proud of it.


All successful modern countries have free market capitalism. On other hand from all countries which tried communistic or socialistic economy only two still continues, and they are one of poorest on this planet.
What is your choice? Will you choose with logic, or with your feelings?
 
I guess, now we have to stick to only your mental interpretation of US wars. How objective... Sorry, I didn't have a clue that you've set the rules and interpretations.
Go cherry pick.
You're deliberately trying to change the subject. You know exactly what wars we are talking about -the war US started, and there are many of them. It's the last wave of US colonization politics that begun after WW2. And we know what happened before that:

a) In the United States in the 19th century, Manifest destiny was the widely held belief that American settlers were destined to expand across the continent. Historians have for the most part agreed that there are three basic themes to Manifest Destiny.
1. The special virtues of the American people and their institutions
2. America's mission to redeem and remake the world in the image of America
3. A divine destiny under God's direction to accomplish this wonderful task

b) The Monroe Doctrine was a policy of the United States introduced on December 2, 1823. It stated that further efforts by European nations to colonize land or interfere with states in North or South America would be viewed as acts of aggression, requiring U.S. intervention.
c) Roosevelt added the Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine in 1904. This corollary asserted the right of the United States to intervene in Latin America in cases of “flagrant and chronic wrongdoing by a Latin American Nation”.
d) In 1928, the Clark Memorandum was released, concluding that the United States need not invoke the Monroe Doctrine as a defense of its interventions in Latin America.


US was already biggest and richest economy even before the war, so there is no secret that they were still the richest 6 years later. Considering the fact that only US, from all the big economies didn't have the war on their soil and didn't get bombed and ruined, they surely stayed even richer when compared to destroyed Europe and Asia after the war. And yet they rushed with money to help Europe with Marshal Plan.
I'm not talking about how big they were, but how much they got bigger during the war. There is a difference between the two.
Why not talk about Communist Russia helping Hitler. At least we have a clean cut communist government helping Hitler and not just few private companies doing business in Germany.
You've automatically diverted all your hate towards Russia to communism, although the two don't always overlap.
I'm sure they would be stuck in Serbia too, and you would be none existent. If you believe the words of the greatest soviet general Zhukov, then you should thank the US for saving your parents lives and yours. He said that Russia wouldn't survived without US help. I guess you know better than Zhukov about this subject.
Germans weren't very fond of killing people in Serbia. Many, many more were killed by Croatians in NDH. It's a different subject, I'd not go into that now.

I hate communism because I was born and had to live in it. I don't hate Russia or Russians. I have Russian friends.
I'm not saying that you hate Russians, but you clearly have a bias for communism and Russian government thing. Soviets were not always good, you know. They sometimes were selfish and watching their own interests. That doesn't have anything to do with communism.

Another wrong assumption of yours. You are wrong about me as you are wrong about US and economy in general. I said this:
Why are you ignoring good stories like Japan, West Germany, South Korea. All prosperous and with US bases on them. You should conclude that having US bases is good for countries, wouldn't you? Isn't it a pattern? Look at all the countries which kicked US out, like Vietnam and Iraq. Still poor.
Stop involving WW2 because there ware many more G7+ (of that time )interests involved. I'm talking about wars that US made with countries that have no football stadium or theater.

Yes, nothing was as devastated as East Germany after soviet steamroller when through. West Germany got help from US with Marshal Plan, but East Germany's factories were stripped from all the machines and were taken by Soviets to Russia. You were lucky Soviets didn't "liberate" Yugoslavia.
So, again, you've interpreted Soviet post war treatment of Eastern Europe as communism. I guess some countries were not treated correctly, but what does it have with communism? Just as same as I know that US is not much about democracy these days, I know that Soviets were not much into communism those days. Why do you fall for their self-designations?
Assuming that aggressor or stronger country only lies is illogical, same as believing that poor country only says truth.
I don't even assume that you lie, I'm assuming that you see the world differently. From my point of view (as per latest example) your assumptions are way off and you are jumping in conclusion based more on your emotions than logic.
I've never said that aggressor always lie. I did not say anything about poor countries. Well, I think you're pretty much logical, but you a) tend to generalize things b)are too naive and trust what other people say

Again you're jumping in conclusions lead by your feelings. Logically, there is no benefit for US to disestablished Middle East. Oil prices will go up and this is counter productive to US economy. One of main reasons US attacked Iraq and Afghanistan was to bring stability in Middle East, to make sure oil is produced with lowest prices possible.
I agree with that. US wanted to make sure for their oil.
That's why they started the war. But whether the region is stabilized or destabilized was of no importance to them.
Please, enlighten us with numbers how much money US made on Iraq war, or Afghanistan war. Don't forget to subtract the costs of war. Otherwise I'm going to treat this as another conspiracy of yours.
I've already told you twice. You're too much into money, and are weighing everything through the prism of money. Getting a nuclear warhead closer to Russian border is way more worth than a bag of paper.

This number of no importance now is killing Greece and Portugal, and soon can strangle Italy and Spain. If real life shows you examples that numbers matter, how come you keep thinking that they don't. Life shows you otherwise but you keep believing it.
It is like not believing in gravity, because people fly to space and to the moon. After all, gravity is just the number, 9.81 m/s2
No, it's not. Gravity existed before it was discovered by humans and before humans knew numbers. Gravity exists no matter if you believe in it or not. On the other hand money has it's worth that is based on the belief of human that one get something in return for it. If there is no belief, it loses it's value. Why do you accept CND dollars for your month's work? Because the government guarantees that it represents the value of your work. Would you take money that I printed on my inkjet for a job you have done? Off course not, because you don't believe you can get anything for it.

My knowledge of Yugoslavia is not better than yours about the world.
It's because you watch too much TV. Plug it out, and take it in the basement. It's so mind numbing.

You know wrong. It is about production, money is a tool to exchange products and services more efficiently. Economy can exist without money, it is called bartel market. How do you think people traded before money was invented?
Why are you going into this? I said precisely "the economy that West has created". Why should we talk about medieval times of neolithic ... I know history, you know history, nice, lets stick to the subject.

In Canada we work hard and then we go Bahamas to rest. Nothing wrong with this. Maybe you should change your country to more capitalistic one, where things work better for people?
1. I agree
2. Leave that choice to others. Countries have parliaments and governments these days. If people think they're living bad, they will change it, they don't need to be "bombed for their own good."
Let me stress it again, we have a lot because we produce. Canada produces 4 times more food we can eat. Surprisingly we never had a colony to steal from. Actually we were a British colony, so according to your theory of deficit, we should be poor and dieing, right? Please drop these crazy books you are reading. They are confusing you.
You are generalizing things. US colonization is directed toward east. They are not insaine to make mess in their own yard.
LoL, this is funny in the light of my previous comment.


These are two separate things. One can understand how the world works, what is best economy, how to stay strong, how cruel the mother nature is, or people in this respect. However it doesn't mean one doesn't have humane and social feelings and be a loving father, helpful friend, sending aid to Africa, be a productive member of society, pay taxes and be proud of it.
I agree. That's why I said "you look like (over the internet off course)". It doesn't mean you are.


All successful modern countries have free market capitalism. On other hand from all countries which tried communistic or socialistic economy only two still continues, and they are one of poorest on this planet. What is your choice? Will you choose with logic, or with your feelings?

There are things that humans value more than gold.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCEUpIg8rE
 

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