Multiple choice; Where in Europe can Armenians and Georgians pass as natives?

Choose as many as apply; where in Europe can Armenians and Georgians fit?

  • Spain or Portugal

    Votes: 10 35.7%
  • UK or Ireland

    Votes: 2 7.1%
  • France

    Votes: 4 14.3%
  • Scandinavia

    Votes: 2 7.1%
  • Poland

    Votes: 3 10.7%
  • Belgium, Netherlands, or Luxembourg

    Votes: 2 7.1%
  • Germany, Switzerland, or Austria

    Votes: 3 10.7%
  • Ukraine

    Votes: 6 21.4%
  • Italy

    Votes: 15 53.6%
  • Sicily

    Votes: 16 57.1%
  • Greece

    Votes: 21 75.0%
  • Malta

    Votes: 11 39.3%
  • Albania

    Votes: 11 39.3%
  • Bulgaria

    Votes: 10 35.7%
  • Romania

    Votes: 12 42.9%
  • Serbia

    Votes: 13 46.4%
  • Bosnia

    Votes: 10 35.7%
  • Croatia

    Votes: 6 21.4%
  • Macedonia

    Votes: 11 39.3%
  • Cyprus

    Votes: 18 64.3%

  • Total voters
    28
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First of all do not quote pseudo scientific crap like Dodecad and Eurogenes.

Then Lazaridis et al found that Caucausians have higher ANE ancestry compared to Iranians, Armenians and other Middle Easterners. Otherwise they are pretty much the same. On the intra west Eurasian plot they are also very close.

Georgians are pretty much the same as Iranians, Kurds and non Beduin Iraqis, but without the ASI component. You can even see that in the spreadsheet from Lazaridis et al.

Said that I don't think none of them can really pass in Europe, let alone Eastern Europe like Russia and Poland where people are much lighter and Mesolitich influenced. Georgians are 0% Mesolitich while Poles are mostly Mesolitich (70% at least).

You might need make an appointment with an oculist :)
I am 100% Georgian but when I travel through Greece, Italy or Spain locals are usually surprised to find out that I am a foreigner.
I am able to distinguish a Georgian from any other ethnicity, same goes for a Spaniard or Italian, because I know which facial or other anthropological cues to look for, but your categorical tone is ridiculous
 
Georgians are basically Iranians/Kurds/Iraqis without ASI and with more ANE.

Armenians are Assyrians who shifted to an Indo European language.

POLAKWO's map is a joke and is not worth a penny outside of anthroboards.
Armenians and assyrians are very close genetically but both ethnic groups speak a different linguistical family language?armenians are indoeuropeans and assyrians are semitic, interesting.
 
The very most types depicted in these pictures look foreign to every european country, I think. Maybe some of these people are admixed with russians, but the most part have particular, "exotic" features.
 
First of all do not quote pseudo scientific crap like Dodecad and Eurogenes.

:LOL: We might not agree with everything what they intepret but I don't think neither you or me is in the position to call Dienekes or Polako pseudo scientists. Ironic also because you quote Lazaridis, probably not knowing who he really is.

Then Lazaridis et al found that Caucausians have higher ANE ancestry compared to Iranians, Armenians and other Middle Easterners. Otherwise they are pretty much the same. On the intra west Eurasian plot they are also very close.

No you are misintepreting him. Lazaridis says in his work, that in Western Asia ANE peaks in North Caucasus. That doesn't automatically conclude that all North Caucasian ethnic groups have more ANE than Iranians or other Middle Easterners. Adding to that, Georgians are technically speaking not North (even if they cluster genetically closest to them)but West Caucasians. And Georgians have ANE level comparal to Anatolian Turks. The Only Caucasians having more ANE ancestry than Iranians, Kurds or even Iraqis are Nakh-Dagestin speakers (majority of North Caucasians) but not Kartvelian Speakers (West Caucasians).

Georgians are pretty much the same as Iranians, Kurds and non Beduin Iraqis, but without the ASI component. You can even see that in the spreadsheet from Lazaridis et al.
If you claim something than provide the source for your claim. Just a post before I tried to explain you that the ASI in Iranians, Kurds or Iraqis could (and very likely is) ANE derived and Kalash like.

Said that I don't think none of them can really pass in Europe, let alone Eastern Europe like Russia and Poland where people are much lighter and Mesolitich influenced. Georgians are 0% Mesolitich while Poles are mostly Mesolitich (70% at least).

I advise you to read more about the most recent scientific papers. You are at least 3 years behind with your knowledge about genetics. Mesolithic, lighter? Those two thinks oppose each other so much that I don't know where to start. I could list you so many things false about that statement, but I am not going to bother.

You also keep calling Georgians "slightly lighter skinned Kurds, Iranians or Iraqis" as if you could spot a lighter skinned version of these with easy. This is pseudo scientific talk of AnthroBoards. Maybe they are simply slightly lighter skinned West Asians. At the end of the day All Europeans are up to 80% just lighter skinned West Asians.

If that man told you he is Irish or French, would you jump up and and shout "no you are an Iraqi". 38512.jpg

And obviously you have never seen a Georgian personally in your entire life otherwise you wouldn't talk like that. I have seen enough of them. They have their own look different from Armenians, Kurds, Iranians or Turks. Of course there is enough overlap. But there is also overlap to Near Easterners from different parts of Europe, because at the end of the day most of theEuropean genes came from the Near East. For example the "Mediterranean" genes in Europe are Southwest Asian and West Asian related, proto farmer derived ferticle crescent DNA, also. The only difference to Georgians here. That their farmer DNA has merged with 1/3 of ANE and became "West Asian" while in Europe it merged with 1/4 WHG and became known as "Mediterranean" and Europeans have additional but ANE related WHG.

And about the Armenians. They are as much "indo Europinized" as allot of nations in Europe.
 
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The very most types depicted in these pictures look foreign to every european country, I think. Maybe some of these people are admixed with russians, but the most part have particular, "exotic" features.
I agree, i think armenians and georgians look different. I know that they are genetically different armenians have more sw asian admixture than georgians and ydna speaking 30% of R1b and less J2.
 
I agree, i think armenians and georgians look different. I know that they are genetically different armenians have more sw asian admixture than georgians and ydna speaking 30% of R1b and less J2.

Georgians have more tendency toward looking Balkan, and tend to be longer-faced with softer features than Armenians. Armenians sometimes look Semitic, consistent with their shared origins with Assyrians.
 
@Alan

Georgians have been mixing with Kurds, Armenians, Azeris and Turks for centuries. Georgia was also for centuries under Tatar, Mongolian, Persian and Arab domination. Most of the Georgian samples from Behar come from Western Georgia. Eastern Georgians are pretty much like the Kurds, but without the ASI component.

BTW South Ossetions score 6-7% East Asian admixture from mixing with Tatars AFAIK.
 
Georgians have more tendency toward looking Balkan, and tend to be longer-faced with softer features than Armenians. Armenians sometimes look Semitic, consistent with their shared origins with Assyrians.
Talking of the few armenians i see in real life i think they look caucasians + anatolian and mesopotamian while georgians probably look more typical caucasian. What surprise me is that armenians speak an indo european language and assyrians are semitic.
 
Armenians from the Caucasus look Caucasians. Armenians from the Levant look Assyrian. Armenians from Anatalia (the so called Hemshim) look Anatolian.

Most Diaspora Armenians are from the Levant and Anatolia.

Plenty of Armenians and Assyrians shifted ethnicity to escape the genocide.
 
@Alan

Georgians have been mixing with Kurds, Armenians, Azeris and Turks for centuries. Georgia was also for centuries under Tatar, Mongolian, Persian and Arab domination. Most of the Georgian samples from Behar come from Western Georgia. Eastern Georgians are pretty much like the Kurds, but without the ASI component.

BTW South Ossetions score 6-7% East Asian admixture from mixing with Tatars AFAIK.

LOL you clearly seem to have some agenda
Tu non sei italiano..
 
@Alan

Georgians have been mixing with Kurds, Armenians, Azeris and Turks for centuries. Georgia was also for centuries under Tatar, Mongolian, Persian and Arab domination. Most of the Georgian samples from Behar come from Western Georgia.

Spain was under Moorish rule for almost 800 years. During the Roman Empire and even later Italy was a meeting point of many cultures and people who migrated and also stayed there.

After WW1 1.5 Mio Pontiacs, thats 15% of the total Greek population, settled somewhere in Northern Greece.

Eastern Georgians are pretty much like the Kurds, but without the ASI component.

Joey thats again an allegation just based on an opinion. Eastern Georgia isn't necesarry all Georgian most Azeris of Georgia live in this part of the country and I have seen real Georgians from Kakheti and they do not cluster differen't from other Georgians. Contrary East Georgia borders North Azerbaijan too, which is populated by Lezgians and Lezgians and those cluster even with North Caucasians!

BTW South Ossetions score 6-7% East Asian admixture from mixing with Tatars AFAIK.

So have Finns and Russians. Thats not an argument imo.
 
Ancient Italy was a meeting point of Germanic and Slavic Barbarians at most.

By the way I've also seen genetic results of Eastern and Central Georgians and they were very close to the Kurds, but without the ASI. You know in the middle east only Iranics, Azeris, Iraqi Arabs and some Turks have ASI ancestry.
 
Ancient Italy was a meeting point of Germanic and Slavic Barbarians at most.

Now you are completely denying any influx from North Africa and the Near East. Basically the ancient Mediterranean world and claim Germanic and Slavic Barbarians played a role? SLAVIC? Did anything called Slavs even exist back than? That must have been some of the most ridiculous things I have heard in some time.

By the way I've also seen genetic results of Eastern and Central Georgians and they were very close to the Kurds, but without the ASI. You know in the middle east only Iranics, Azeris, Iraqi Arabs and some Turks have ASI ancestry.

Do you not understand that no one will take you serious with your allegation if you don't provide any scientific source for your claims?
 
Georgians have more tendency toward looking Balkan, and tend to be longer-faced with softer features than Armenians. Armenians sometimes look Semitic, consistent with their shared origins with Assyrians.


It's not just tendency it's just that Georgians just like North Caucasians look more distinct from other Near Eastern population. There are allot of Armenians who can pass in Southern Europe but even those could equally pass in Western Asia. Georgians on the other hand have types which would be perceived as "foreign" or distinct to even Northern Near Easterners like Iranians, Kurds, Turks or Armenians, and they would initially be considered as Europeans or atleast "exotic" looking Europeans.

I will prove my Argument with one simple method. I searched for a frequent Georgian first name and "Irakli" innitial came to my mind. Than I went on Wikipedia and searched for any famous Georgian with this surname and the result was pretty much a confirmation for my experience.

This is the list of famous Georgians with the first name "Irakli". You can check yourself and no one can claim any sort of cherry picking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irakli

And these are images of them.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...9-07.jpg/640px-Irakli_Alasania_2014-09-07.jpg

http://architecture.gtu.ge/html/personalia/images/Portraits/ochiauri.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4009/4565874409_764c154cde_z.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Irakli_Menagharishvili_(March_20,_2001).jpg

http://nightshow.ge/photos/guest/138_2.jpg

http://0.static.wix.com/media/25cd3d_e8e3e8a971a27fbf496b9398fd7b4594.jpg_512

http://cs303108.vk.me/v303108599/2e6/AQ6NfxRzUaQ.jpg

http://www.fussballzz.de/img/jogadores/02/60602_ori_irakli_kobalia.png

http://www.geocities.ws/georgiasoccer/ZazaRevishvili.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ly_Andronikov.jpg/220px-Irakly_Andronikov.jpg

http://www.easywl.com/results/lifters/132/M640.jpg

http://0.static.wix.com/media/25cd3d_397e398e9427673bbf4ad7a4abd0bbbb.jpg_512

http://static.iltalehti.fi/jalkapallo/iraklietu070713HH_503_vg.jpg

http://sztkfutball.hu/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/irakli-kvekveskiri-600x600.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Logua-Irakliy.jpg

http://skontofc.com/bildes/speletaji/klimiashvili.jpg

http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Olympics+Day+5+Judo+murWp1nQOx6l.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7228/7260713794_fb566b93ed_z.jpg

http://www.labadze.ru/design/labadze-photo.jpg

http://www.ogol.com.br/img/jogadores/84/179684_ori_irakli_modebadze.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._2.jpg/1280px-Irakli_Garibashvili_2013._2.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/f/f7/Abashidze_irakli.jpg

http://site.rugby.ge/_rugby/images/QIASA.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Irakli_Okruashvili.jpg

No one can tell me he would be able to spot them collectively as "foreigners".
 
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But than when I do the same with an Armenian common name. I get these results which also confirm my experience.

looked for famous people with the first name "Gagik".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagik

Images
http://168.am/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Gagik-Harutyunyan1-e1351330101977.jpg

http://cs316225.vk.me/v316225591/6241/t-wbs8DcOXA.jpg

http://www.hyefighters.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Gago-Drago4.jpg

http://www.classicalarchives.com/images/artists_cma/hovounts.jpg

http://cs416231.vk.me/v416231487/3db1/oi17DzyN5X4.jpg

http://slaq.am/images/news_0/22484661324391356.jpg

You can't really claim that both these groups are so extremely similar that it is justified to put them in the same category.
 
Now you are completely denying any influx from North Africa and the Near East. Basically the ancient Mediterranean world and claim Germanic and Slavic Barbarians played a role? SLAVIC? Did anything called Slavs even exist back than? That must have been some of the most ridiculous things I have heard in some time.

:useless:

Please don't compare Italy who was the center of the European civilization, always part of the Germanic/Western/European sphere with backward middle eastern countries like Georgia or Ossetia.
 
:useless:

Please don't compare Italy who was the center of the European civilization, always part of the Germanic/Western/European sphere with backward middle eastern countries like Georgia or Ossetia.

Where on earth does that come from? Going by I1 and U-106 levels in Italy, commonly accepted as "Germanic" markers, the "Germanic" influence on Italy is minimal genetically. Culturally, the benefits and the civilization all went in the other direction, i.e. from the east to Greece, then Italy, and then spreading to central and western Europe.

Perhaps some more in depth reading of history is in order, with a special emphasis on the development of agriculture, urbanization, writing, metallurgy, and so on. I would then recommend reading some history about the destruction of Italy and Greco Roman civilization as the result of the Germanic "wanderings". It took 1000 years to recover, and I'm being generous.
 
Sista I don't want to go off topic, but it was the Germanic Barbarians who defended and ruled the Roman Empire in its final stage. Later on the Germanic Barbarians built the Holy Roman Empire which included Italy.

Anyway I was just trol.ling these bunch of light skinned Iraqis... ops Georgians... because one of these genius said that Georgians look Eastern European or something like that.

Consider my trol.ling here ended.
 
Italy was part of the Greco-Roman, and then Roman/Latin world, not the Germanic one. When civilization existed in Italy, the Germanic world was still barbaric. :lol: Not trying to be rude or disrespectful -- there is no disrespect there -- but that is the truth.
 
Please don't compare Italy who was the center of the European civilization

Magna Grecia
Etruria
Celtic north Italy
Roman Empire
Comuni
First parliament in the world (Mazara del Vallo 1097)
First official vulgar language become official language of italian people in the latin world (first Federico II school and Tuscany school)
ecc ecc ;)
 
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