N1C spread by trade routes service social class leitzleute, letigalli, lyda, litva

Silk road has existed in Roman times and most likely before https://www.britannica.com/topic/Silk-Road-trade-route

Alexander campaign went via Lydia (where there are same number of N carriers today as in Finland) to India (where N has 60% of brahmans) https://www.bible-history.com/maps/alexander_campaigns.html

I haven't noticed N between finds of Большой Олений остров
Mitochondrial haplogroups C*, C5, U5a, U5a1, U4a1, Z1a, D* and T* were identified in fossil remains of the population. According to scientists, the greatest genetic similarity with samples from the Island was shown by modern Siberian populations, mainly in the Yenisei River basin. Presumably, the population of the Island arrived to the Kola Peninsula 3,500 years ago from Central Siberia, https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1003296

It's more likely N spread from South to North via Siberia rivers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_River_Routes#/media/File:Siberiariverroutemap.png

No way Brahmins have 60% N frequency. That's just totally incorrect. As for numbers, I'll just ignore that. Numbers mean nothing when we know the human population increased tremendously in the last 2000 years and it did so in different paces from region to region. Proportions do matter. As for Lydia, it seems pretty likely that most of the N there arrived with the Turks, as similar clades of N are found in Central Asian Turks - so it's quite recent in that region.

Yes, the earliest N1c in Fennoscandia was found in Bolshoi Oleni Ostrov. And it's much older than any influence of the Silk Road in Europe. Read: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/22/285437

Additionally, N1c was also found in a DNA sample from the 3rd millennium BC (~4000 years ago) in Serteya, Russia, near Belarus and Latvia. Again, that presence of N1c exactly in Northeastern Europe where it's most frequent now existed way before any of the events you're talking about took place. Read: https://www.academia.edu/9452168/Ar...azurkevich_A._Polkovnikova_M._Dolbunova_E._ed

This is the distribution of the N haplogroup samples found in the ancient DNA analyses as of now. The distribution of the haplogroup was clearly very "northern" and mainly Siberian/North Asian... Its first samples (not the N1c found in Europe, though) are found in Neolithic Liao civilization, i.e. northeast China near the Russian border. And of course it just had to move westward and be "lucky" or successful to expand a lot in Northeastern Europe. I wonder why you feel the need to find much a more convoluted (but presumably more "fabulous") explanation for what must've happened.


No ancient sample with N haplogroup was found anywhere in West Asia and in all of Europe before 3500 years ago, and when it finally appears it's near Scandinavia and associated with heavy Siberian autosomal input, not anywhere else, certainly not in Lydia (Turkey) and other parts of the East Mediterranean. If N was strongly associated with the Silk Road, we'd never expect the regions most influenced by them to be located in the northeasternmost portion of Europe, because that was at best an utter periphery to those traders and travelers who mostly passed through Central Asia with the Mediterranean Basin as their main destination. You seem to be overestimating the demographic impact of traders too much.

Yes, of course N seems to have come to Northeast Europe from the more habitable parts of Siberia (lower latitudes), but that does not mean at all that the Silk Road had something to do with it. It seems to me that you just can't accept a less "glorious" or "civilized" origin for the spread of your haplogroup, God knows why... But the real likelihood is that N1c predates any civilization in Northeastern Europe and any and was already a "northern haplogroup" coming from the east (Siberia) to the other side of the Urals and expanding later from somewhere near the Urals with a new mixed population, mostly of European descent but also with some Siberian ancestry. The autosomal linkage also suggests that the population that carried it was not "from the south" at all, it was just another Siberian population closely related to other taiga dwellers. And that may have happened before 3500-4000 years ago. The Silk Road and other southern trade routes have nothing to do with its arrival in Europe and subsequent expansion.

My advice is: read the papers and the findings (especially ancient DNA) and try to derive conclusions from the evidences, not the contrary, which is trying to find evidences to prove your preconceived conclusions.
Thank you for the advice and material shared.

It’s stated there:
“…we gain further insights into the genetic history of the Saami in Finland, by showing that during the Iron Age, close genetic relatives of modern Saami lived in an area much further south than their current geographic range.

Ten of the eleven ancient individuals from this study fall on this Uralic cline, with
the exception of one individual from Levänluhta (JK2065), who is instead
projected closer to modern Lithuanian, Norwegian and Icelandic populations.

the Siberian genetic component is maximized in the Saami, and can
also be seen in similar proportions in the historical Saami from Chalmny Varre
and in two of the Levänluhta individuals. The third Levänluhta individual,
JK2065, falling also in an outlier position on the PCA, lacks the Siberian

Y-chromosomal haplotype N1c1a1a (N-L392) in individuals BOO002 and
BOO004. Notably, this is the earliest known occurrence of Y-haplogroup N1c in Fennoscandia.

As shown by these multiple lines of evidence, the pattern of genetic ancestry
observed in north-eastern Europe is the result of admixture between
populations from Siberia and populations from Europe.”

Bolshoy Oleny Island is typical crossroad of cultures on the waterways as it obvious from the archeology: Excavations uncovered 23 burials in shallow pits; among them were the burials in wooden boxes, as well as those using tarred leather wrappings. There are two instances of cremation. The inventory includes tools made of stone and bone, such as arrowheads, daggers , awls, needles, and fish hooks. A copper arrowhead, and a sculpture of the head of an elk were found. 5 fragments of "wafer" ceramics were also found.

Islands typically settled by sea farers to avoid conflict with local population on the land.
So N1c1a1a could come from coastal Norway to anywhere south by rivers.

Levänluhta located on the major river and trade route in Finland. So untypical individuals most likely settled by marriage with locals or left genetic trace by travel the same way French fur traders in America.

So I think these finds more favor spread by trade routes than via northern taiga.

Also it’s very strange to read such “scientific” article were just from 11 widely geographically distributed 3500 years old samples drown bold conclusion connecting genetic migration with languages and even present nationalities.

I appreciate for sharing remarkable publication
Archaeology of lake settlements IV-II mill. BC/ Mazurkevich A. 2014
Y DNA proportions R1a1 (50%), R1b1 (19%), N1c (25%) и I1a (6%)

So far from the archeological background in publication lacustrine pile dwellings culture in upper N.Dvina and Volga was clear intrusion together with N1C inhabitants found there.
Some quotes:
The lacustrine pile dwellings, which appeared at the first half of the 4th millennium cal. BC, were unique sites among the Middle Neolithic cultures of the forest zone of northeastern
Europe. The territory of pile dwelling expansion includes the
basin of the upper (Serteya II, Usviaty IV, and Dubokrai V) and
middle Western Dvina River (sites of the Krivinsky peat bog
in the territory of Belarus). To the east and north of the Dnepr–
Dvina region there were sites with Pit–Comb pottery, to the
south — sites with Rhomb–Pit pottery, and to the west — the
Late Narva Culture. Judging from published data, pile dwellings
may also exist on the northeastern Baltic shores of Sarnate and

Contacts with ancient inhabitants of other regions, sometimes
rather remote one, can be traced in the materials
of Dnepr-Dvina basin (Mazurkevich et al. 2009). A particular
culture appeared here in Middle-Late Neolithic, which
was formed on the local base of cultures of Eastern European
forest zone and also absorbed some traits of archaeological
cultures from other regions. It can be traced in different categories
of artifacts — appearance of flint daggers, Baltic amber
(Мазуркевич 2010), and the formation of new architectural
form — pile-dwellings.
The similarity in decoration, technological methods and
morphology typical for synchronous sites, located in different
archaeological microregions of Upper Dvina area, 40–120
km remote from each other, may indicate one community who
lived here.
Usviatskaya culture has in its base numerous elements
of Funnel beaker culture, and in the first half — middle of the
III mil. BC was influenced by bearers of early Cord ware culture,
as well as of Upperdneprovskaya culture, and those of more remote
regions. Finds of pottery with curvilinear geometrical decor,
vessels with trays and their imitation, find of a clay stamp —
pintadera testify relations with the Balkans.

pile-dwellings of northern Italy, which are part of the Alpine pile-dwellings phenomenon.
pile-dwelling timbers in Italy spans from the end of the 4th millennium BC (from Isolino Virginia itself) until the end of the 14th century BC (from Iseo Brescia). Martinelli N. 2014 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_pile_dwellings_around_the_Alps

Unfortunately Martinelli missed most famous pile dwelling – Venetian city http://theapprenticeandthejourneyma...nice-italy-was-built-on-a-foundation-of-wood/
Spread of the art in E.Europe connected with cultures in Central by trade?
С конца IV — начала III тыс. до н.э. отмечается расцвет искусства малых форм: мелкой антропоморфной и зооморфной скульптуры из кремня, кости и рога в лесной зоне Восточной Европы (кат. 6-20). Начиная со второй половины IV тыс. до н.э. её западные области испытывали постоянное влияние со стороны среднеевропейских культур с производящим хозяйством.
Мазуркевич А.Н. 2010 Балтийский янтарь в культурах

The horizon, where it was found, is dated to VIII-V c. BC (Короткевич
2013). Sample № А5 was found in burial mound with cremation
of the burial ground Devichi gory near the lake Sennitsa, that
is attributed to the middle age culture of long barrows.
Due to Ychromosome markers, bone remains from the sites Serteya
VIII, Anashkino and one sample from the site Serteya II were
attributed to haplogroup R1a1, and the second sample from the
site Serteya II and burial ground Devichi gory — to haplogroup N1c (table 3).

The origins of the cremation rite are commonly believed to be in Hungary, where it was widespread since the first half of the second millennium BC.[3] The neolithic Cucuteni–Trypillia culture of modern-day northeastern Romania and Ukraine were also practicing cremation rituals as early as approximately 5500 BC. Some cremations begin to be found in the Proto-Lusatian and Trzciniec culture.
Urnfield culture had also numerous pile dwellings on lakes of southern Germany and Switzerland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urnfield_culture

Long barrows examples developed in Iberia and western France during the mid-fifth millennium BCE. The tradition then spread northwards, into the British Isles and then the Low Countries and Southern Scandinavia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_barrow
New article
'' We can clearly see the development of the production industry from the studies that have been carried out about 3,000 to 3,500 years ago, and this wave of entry is from the Ukrainian regions, the so-called Jamna culture areas. ''
Wax adds that it is interesting to note that the migration study shows the direction of the culture of the producer farm directly from the Black and Caspian Sea steppe zones: '2900. the year before our era is the time when, in the eastern Baltic, we already have cattery and battle axes with their producing farms, and it's most interesting that
''now, with the help of genetics, it has been discovered, however, that these entrants come from the steppes, from the southeast. There was no such clarity before, opinions shared. ''
Researchers call the territory of Latvia the crossroads of ancient inhabitants, but the results also provide an overview of the migration of indigenous peoples in this part of Europe, which, for some reason, bypasses the territory of Latvia.
The main findings of the internationally appreciated international study on Latvia are that the manufacturing industry came from the south-east, not from the south-west, as it has been thought to date; while the arrival of the Baltic tribes is due to the late Neolithic (around 2900 BC) and not to the earlier times.
So gene spread was not via taiga or tundra
While the series of events that shaped the transition between foraging societies and food producers are well described for Central and Southern Europe, genetic evidence from Northern Europe surrounding the Baltic Sea is still sparse. Here, we report genome-wide DNA data from 38 ancient North Europeans ranging from ~9500 to 2200 years before present. Our analysis provides genetic evidence that hunter-gatherers settled Scandinavia via two routes. We reveal that the first Scandinavian farmers derive their ancestry from Anatolia 1000 years earlier than previously demonstrated. The range of Mesolithic Western hunter-gatherers extended to the east of the Baltic Sea, where these populations persisted without gene-flow from Central European farmers during the Early and Middle Neolithic. The arrival of steppe pastoralists in the Late Neolithic introduced a major shift in economy and mediated the spread of a new ancestry associated with the Corded Ware Complex in Northern Europe.
two Eastern Baltic individuals associated with the Mesolithic Kunda Culture show a very close affinity to WHG in all our analyses (Fig. 2, Supplementary Figs. 1 and 2), with a significant contribution from ANE, as revealed by negative admixture f[SUB]3[/SUB] results involving a Palaeolithic hunter-gatherer from Switzerland, most closely related to WHG, and populations containing ANE ancestry
Archaeological evidence supports that the site Kivutkalns, which is represented by 10 of our individuals, was a major bronze-working centre located on a trade route that opened to the Baltic Sea on the west and led inland following the Daugava river31, where contact to surrounding populations might have been common.
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“dialects often show similarities along traditional traveling routes such as the great rivers in Northern Sweden, which start in the mountains at the Norwegian border and then follow a South-Easterly path towards the Bothnian Sea.“ Pettersson (1996)
Dipthongisation of languages occurred in whole Baltic sea region from the south of Schlezwig to the north of Botnia supposing because of the trading contacts
"The Estonian first farmers of Corded Ware culture show high similarity in their autosomes with European hunter-gatherers, Steppe Eneolithic and Bronze Age populations, and European Late Neolithic/Bronze Age populations, while their X chromosomes are in addition equally closely related to European and Anatolian and Levantine early farmers. These findings suggest that the shift to intensive cultivation and animal husbandry in Estonia was triggered by the arrival of new people with predominantly Steppe ancestry but whose ancestors had undergone sex-specific admixture with early farmers with Anatolian ancestry."
From Caucasus to Lithuania?
Analysis of the allele frequency of GJB2 gene mutations revealed a high proportion of c. 313_326del14 (rs111033253) mutations in the GJB2-positive group suggesting its possible origin in Lithuanian forebears.
The allele frequency of c.35delG mutation (64.7 %) is consistent with many previously published studies in groups of affected individuals of Caucasian populations.

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