Neolithic Refuge and Continuity in Transylvania

Riverman · Mar 14, 2026

FTDNA confirmed the position of I40543 upstream of E-V13, at E-CTS1975. We'll see whether he ends up in the known Varna branch E-BY28614 or not. If he would form yet another branch of E-CTS1975, that would be big news, because we now have multiple lines of evidence for the closest connection of the Iron Age Thracians being from the network of Bodrogkeresztur-Salcuta-Gumelnita.

Basic model:
Target: Akbari2026:I40543.TW
Distance: 2.2738% / 0.02273829
86.0 TUR_Barcin_N
8.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
4.4 WHG
0.8 Dai

Closest G25 matches by distance:
Distance to: Akbari2026:I40543.TW
0.02064906 Bulgaria_Varna_Chalcolithic.AG:VAR010.AG__BC_4599__Cov_65.29%
0.02216373 Bulgaria_Varna_Chalcolithic.AG:VAR016.AG__BC_4452__Cov_36.44%
0.02275250 Bulgaria_Chalcolithic.AG:I2430.AG__BC_4498__Cov_54.04%
0.02613323 Bulgaria_Varna_Chalcolithic.AG:VAR022.AG__BC_4503__Cov_72.39%
0.02915065 Romania_PietreleMaguraGorgana_Gumelnita_C.AG

IE012.AG__BC_4537__Cov_37.14%
0.02946259 Turkey_Central_AsikliHoyuk_PPN:Ash129__BC_7887__Cov_51.29%
0.02975656 Turkey_Central_Boncuklu_PPN.AG:ZMOJ_BON014.A0101_Luk21.AG__BC_7950__Cov_50.75%
0.02976351 Hungary_MN_AVK.AG:I17939.AG__BC_4900__Cov_61.24%
0.03114160 Hungary_LN_Tisza.AG:I0449.AG__BC_4750__Cov_82.15%
0.03124634 Italy_Sicily_MBA_o2.AG:I3125.AG__BC_1540__Cov_77.93%
0.03147323 Romania_PietreleMaguraGorgana_Gumelnita_C.AG

IE038.AG__BC_4563__Cov_65.33%
0.03168980 Bulgaria_Varna_Chalcolithic.AG:VAR034.AG__BC_4588__Cov_28.32%
0.03210950 Romania_PietreleMaguraGorgana_Gumelnita_C.AG

IE017.AG__BC_4612__Cov_54.71%
0.03212692 Bulgaria_Varna_Chalcolithic.AG:VAR018.AG__BC_4425__Cov_50.30%
0.03225593 Romania_PietreleMaguraGorgana_Gumelnita_C.AG

IE037.AG__BC_4292__Cov_51.03%
0.03277969 Turkey_AsikliHoyuk_EN_Preceramic_o:Ash133__BC_7895__Cov_63.78%
0.03295578 Romania_C_Bodrogkeresztur.AG:I4088.AG__BC_4241__Cov_62.13%
0.03296468 Italy_Sicily_IA.AG:I13377.AG__BC_700__Cov_75.05%
0.03316573 Italy_Sicily_IA.AG:I13385.AG__BC_642__Cov_77.59%
0.03358760 Turkey_Central_Boncuklu_PPN.WGC.SG:Bon002.WGC.SG__BC_8128__Cov_91.47%
0.03369395 Romania_N_IronGates.SG:NEO674.SG__BC_3829__Cov_22.73%
0.03373115 Turkey_Central_Boncuklu_PPN.AG:ZHJ_BON024.A0101_Luk84.AG__BC_8240__Cov_51.11%
0.03374750 Romania_PietreleMaguraGorgana_Gumelnita_C.AG

IE065.AG__BC_4562__Cov_48.03%
0.03376506 Bulgaria_Chalcolithic.AG:I2424.AG__BC_4338__Cov_58.10%
0.03382472 Hungary_LN_Tisza.SG:VM-33.SG__BC_4750__Cov_71.84%
0.03411380 Bulgaria_Yunatsite_EBA.AG:YUN043.AG__BC_2758__Cov_67.76%
0.03421547 Romania_PietreleMaguraGorgana_Gumelnita_C.AG

IE004.AG__BC_4621__Cov_61.08%
0.03445196 Italy_Sicily_IA.AG:I13394.AG__BC_734__Cov_76.34%
0.03447480 Turkey_Central_Boncuklu_PPN.AG:ZKO_BON001.A0101_Luk7.AG__BC_7950__Cov_55.65%
0.03515419 Romania_C_Bodrogkeresztur_o1.AG:I15623.AG__BC_4138__Cov_57.84%
0.03523431 Bulgaria_Varna_Chalcolithic.AG:VAR019.AG__BC_4624__Cov_51.59%
0.03544363 Germany_EN_LBK.AG:XN174.AG__BC_4850__Cov_21.37%
0.03552790 Bulgaria_Varna_Chalcolithic.AG:VAR030.AG__BC_4478__Cov_40.68%
0.03556233 Turkey_AsikliHoyuk_EN_Preceramic:Ash128__BC_8068__Cov_98.19%
0.03573727 Italy_Sicily_IA.AG:I13395.AG__BC_700__Cov_64.89%
0.03577828 Hungary_Polgár-Csőszhalom_LN:I10149__BC_4660__Cov_61.31%
0.03583092 Hungary_MN_AVK.AG:I21846.AG__BC_5125__Cov_57.50%
0.03586282 Italy_Sicily_IA.AG:I13386.AG__BC_700__Cov_73.51%
0.03602332 Bulgaria_Yunatsite_Chalcolithic_GumelnitaKaranovo.AG:YUN028.AG__BC_4443__Cov_33.68%
0.03615744 Hungary_Polgár-Basatanya_LN:I10011__BC_4235__Cov_74.13%
0.03621144 Bulgaria_Chalcolithic.AG:I2423.AG__BC_4431__Cov_44.58%
0.03625457 Romania_C_Bodrogkeresztur.AG:I14160.AG__BC_3950__Cov_69.51%
0.03630621 Germany_EN_LBK.AG:XN168.AG__BC_5143__Cov_23.98%
0.03651008 Romania_PietreleMaguraGorgana_Gumelnita_C.AG

IE019.AG__BC_4500__Cov_35.30%
0.03651291 Romania_PietreleMaguraGorgana_Gumelnita_C.AG

IE014.AG__BC_4466__Cov_35.53%
0.03654494 Hungary_MN_Vinca.AG:I1895.AG__BC_5245__Cov_59.97%
0.03665162 Turkey_Marmara_Aktopraklik_LN.SG:AKT16.SG__BC_6613__Cov_98.43%
0.03670612 Bulgaria_PetkoKaravelovo_Chalcolithic.AG

TK005.AG__BC_4550__Cov_30.49%
0.03670990 Hungary_LN_Tisza.SG:HGO-26.SG__BC_4750__Cov_55.32%
0.03671744 Bulgaria_Varna_Chalcolithic.AG:ANI159-ANI181.AG__BC_4616__Cov_36.90%

The top matches are clearly from Bodrogkeresztur, Salcuta, Varna, Gumelnita-Karanovo. So he's deeply embedded in this Carpatho-Danubian Eneolithic network. And its the same kind of network, the Iron Age Thracians have closest IBD matches as well. Especially Pietrele site is instrumental here, because it represents a Northern Gumelnita variant which in contact with BSK/Salcuta might have contributed to Salcuta/Cotofeni pretty directly. And this could be a path, with Salcuta and North Western Gumelnita, which leads to E-V13 dominated Cotofeni. Actually, its a straightforwards path, as I have now explained many times with various data points (archaeological, archaeogenetic, phylogenetic etc.).

Importantly, we have a sample from Northern Bulgaria, which I wrote about, which has an even better fit for the Iron Age Thracians, being more Salcuta shifted:
Target: Bulgaria_Dzhulyunitsa_Chalcolithic.AG:I2509.AG__BC_4400__Cov_75.67%
Distance: 3.5605% / 0.03560529
91.2 TUR_Barcin_N
5.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
2.4 WHG
1.0 Levant_Natufian

And she is the most central positioned Copper Age Balkan sample in the old Ringbauer IBD data base! She not just connects to other Bulgarian and South Romanian samples, but also to Bodrogkeresztur and 3 different Iron Age Thracian samples.

Because of the new E-CTS1975 sample, its worth to take a second look at her IBD matching:

Bulgaria_C:I2509 Switzerland_LN.AG:Aes20 7.02 19.59 3 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Germany_Saxony_LBK_N.AG

ER034 8.77 16.47 2 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Romania_C_Bodrogkeresztur_o1:I15623 8.61 15.14 2 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Czechia_N_Rivnac_oAnatolia.AG:TUC002 8.08 14.67 2 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Bulgaria_EIA:I20183 7.11 13.49 2 Bulgaria_C:I2509 England_Viking.SG:VK175_noUDG.SG 7.14 13.29 2 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Croatia_MN:I26738 7.23 13.23 2 Bulgaria_C:I2509 France_GrandEst_EN.SG:Schw72-15.SG 6.61 13.16 2 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Italy_Medieval.SG:VK534_noUDG.SG 6.72 12.84 2 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 8.41 8.41 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Ukraine_EIA_Cimmerian_o1.SG:MJ-31_noUDG.SG 8.31 8.31 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Croatia_C_Lasinja:I10053 8.30 8.30 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Turkey_N_sister.I0736:I0854_enhanced 8.08 8.08 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Turkey_Central_TepecikCiftlik_N.WGC.SG:Tep003_noUDG.WGC 8.05 8.05 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Croatia_Popova_MN.SG

OP12_noUDG.SG 7.99 7.99 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Turkey_N:I0746 7.98 7.98 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Czechia_EBA_Unetice.AG:KNE002 7.89 7.89 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 France_MN_father.or.son.GLN302.AG:GRG052 7.77 7.77 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 England_Viking_o.SG:VK150_noUDG.SG 7.71 7.71 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Croatia_Dragulin_Roman.SG:R3665.SG 7.71 7.71 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Ukraine_Eneolithic_Trypillia.SG:VERT111 7.64 7.64 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Latvia_LN_CordedWare.SG:Latvia_LN1_noUDG.SG 7.59 7.59 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Ireland_MN.SG

B1327.SG 7.58 7.58 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Sweden_Late_N.SG

ll010_noUDG.SG 7.55 7.55 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Spain_MLN:I7606 7.51 7.51 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Czech_EBA_Unetice:KO1006 7.47 7.47 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Ukraine_Eneolithic_Trypillia.SG:VERT106C 7.40 7.40 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 England_EIA:I13682 7.29 7.29 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Estonia_EarlyViking.SG:VK480_noUDG.SG 7.27 7.27 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Kyrgyzstan_TianShan_Hun.SG

A65_noUDG.SG 7.26 7.26 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Romania_EN:I2533 7.24 7.24 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Turkey_Boncuklu_N.SG:Bon002_noUDG.WGC 7.21 7.21 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Estonia_EarlyViking.SG:VK491_noUDG.SG 7.18 7.18 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 France_MN:GRG028 7.17 7.17 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 France_EN_MN:LBR003 7.12 7.12 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Ireland_MN.SG

N07.SG 7.09 7.09 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Russia_MLBA_Sintashta.SG:RISE394_noUDG.SG 7.08 7.08 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Romania_C_Bodrogkeresztur:I14165 7.06 7.06 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Germany_EN_LBK:I0026 7.05 7.05 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Czech_BellBeaker:KO1003 7.02 7.02 1 Bulgaria_C:I2509 Norway_Viking.SG:VK393_noUDG.SG 7.02 7.02 1 

One of her closest matches is the more North oriented E-V13 South Thracian sample I20183 and the Mezocsat female with the highest ANF/strongest Thracian orientation (likely most Gáva-shifted individual of the Mezocsat females). She matches with an additional Thraco-Cimmerian mixed individual, plus Vekerzug matches! And of course she has multiple Bodrogkeresztur matches. More than from Bulgarian Copper Age proximate sources!
It this therefore very clear, that she sits at the border between Salcuta and Gumelnita, with strong connections to the first wave of steppe gene flow - as can be seen with one of the Urziceni / Bodrogkeresztur-Salcuta samples she matches higly with, which sits directly between Gumelnita-Salcuta and the Thracians.

The new E-CTS1975 sample and the old Gumelnita-Salcuta Dzhulyunitsa sample with the high IBD matching with Thracians both plotted on the PCA with relevant references:

Both samples sit on the cline from pure ANF/Barcin-like, like e.g. Salcuta from Urziceni represents it, or Vinca, over ANF-shifted North Western Gumelnita, with steppe admixture, to Urziceni with steppe admixture to the South Thracians.

The only thing they need, to end up in the Thracian core, is additional, relatively pure steppe ancestry from say Cernavoda I/III, Usatovo or even Yamnaya.

I think we can now say with some confidence that E-CTS1975 being clearly associated with the Lower Danube sphere, with Bodrogkeresztur, Salcuta, Gumelnita, Varna. And we can also say that individuals like I2509 from Northern Bulgaria represent this network perfectly, because she shares IBD with Bodrogkeresztur - but zero with Bulgarian samples. I went down to 6 cM, she still doesn't get it!
So she is from Bulgaria, but she's actually closer related to Salcuta and Bodrogkeresztur, with which she shares 5 IBD matches. Zero from Bulgaria, only (!) the Thacian Iron Age sample, but 5 with Bodrogkeresztur. And this despite the fact that the vast majority of Salcuta shifted Urziceni samples being NOT in the Ringbauer data base. Only a small number is. If they would, she likely would have matched with them as well!

So we have the most central Copper Age Balkan sample by IBD matching, for the Thracians, being actually from Salcuta-Bodrogkeresztur despite sitting in Northern Bulgaria. That explains perfectly why she doesn't have local matches, but tons of Carpathian basin ones. She has ZERO Bulgarian matches other than the Iron Age Thracian - literally zero!

At the same time she matches with a presumable direct ancestor for Salcuta, from Dolj country, Oltenia: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/romania/i2533
Which is a pure ANF individual! So I2509 represents a (mostly) Salcuta derived individual with near absolute certainty.

We therefore have a combined evidence for the Lower Danube as the E-V13 source region:
1) E-CTS1975 found in the Bodrogkeresztur-Salcuta-Gumelnita-Varna network multiple times
2) IBD sharing of Bodrogkeresztur and Salcuta with Iron Age Thracians - and this connection is as strong or visibly stronger than with any more Southern source
3) Autosomal profile of the Bodrogkeresztur-mixed, Salcuta and North Western Gumelnita groups is the by far best fit for the Thracian ANF-rich base.
4) The Thracian cultures can be derived, ultimately, with burial rites, subsistence pattern, weaponry, metallurgy and tools, ceramic etc. from the Carpatho-Danubian groups and most specifically the Cotofeni/Gornea-Orlesti descendants.

The plot thickens and these new samples might help a great deal.

We practically found the Thracian genetic base: They have the ANF-rich profile, they have E-CTS1975 - the only thing they need to end up in the Iron Age Thracian core, now well established to be the centre of E-V13 expansion, for all main branches, is additional fairly undiluted steppe. To get from the already sampled steppe-mixed Salcuta, Gumelnita, Varna, Bodrogkeresztur samples to the Thracian Iron Age profile they just need about 10 % extra steppe. That's all. Especially the Urziceni samples with Salculta-steppe admixed profiles need only that much: 10 % extra steppe and they are in the Thracian core!

That the new sample is from Northern Gumelnita-Varna can also be seen by looking at his serial neighbour, which is downstream of R-V88: https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-F3867/tree

Samples from this branch of R-V88 were all from the same zone: Varna, Pietrele (Southern Romania), Smyadovo (Northern Bulgaria): That's Gumelnita! I40542 plots that way. But interestingly, probably just by chance, but who knows, probably not, he has less steppe shift and more WHG shift. The E-CTS1975 is a much better fit for the Thracian cline from Salcuta to the IA Thracians, because he has more ANF, more steppe and less other admixture.

Let's compare the three samples, the Salcuta-mixed female from CA North Bulgaria, the E-CTS1975 and the R-V88 individual:

Target: Bulgaria_Dzhulyunitsa_Chalcolithic.AG:I2509.AG__BC_4400__Cov_75.67%
Distance: 3.5605% / 0.03560529
91.2 TUR_Barcin_N
5.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
2.4 WHG
1.0 Levant_Natufian

Target: R-F3867:Akbari2026:I40542.TW
Distance: 2.5091% / 0.02509067
88.0 TUR_Barcin_N
6.6 WHG
5.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: E-CTS1975:Akbari2026:I40543.TW
Distance: 2.2738% / 0.02273829
86.0 TUR_Barcin_N
8.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
4.4 WHG
0.8 Dai

They are pretty similar and prove that Salcuta and Northern Gumelnita just provides us with good forts for the Thracian base. However, the BSK/Salcuta female is a perfect fit, the E-CTS1975 is probably still ok and the R-F3867 is the worst of the three.

We now have two E-CTS1975 from Gumelnita-Varna, that's fine, but I still think there was an even bigger nest from where these came from, and that might be BSK/Salcuta itself. That we only got Salcuta samples from mixed Bodrogkeresztur and mixed Gumelnita-zone is quite telling.

Just with the Bronze and Iron Age, the lack of samples from core regions (like Southern Transylvania, Eastern Banat and Oltenia through the ages is a big miss, the biggest for the whole debate.

Yet we only have very few samples from areas like Oltenia, and voila, the Neolithic sample from Dolj matches with the later Salcuta-derived female from Bulgaria. Even single, outdated samples help. Just imagine what it would mean if having that core area of Salcuta and Cotofeni being sampled like e.g. Hungary or even Bulgaria!

Riverman · Mar 14, 2026

If anyone still has doubts, about this female I2509 from Bulgaria being from the Salcuta/BSK sphere, here is her IBD matching map plot:

She has ZERO, absolutely ZERO matching with Bulgaria prior to the Iron Age and the only match with Bulgarian samples she got is with the Iron Age Thracian who in turn has matching with Gáva-related individuals from Mezocsat and Vekerzug! (Just like she has, since he has Mezocsat matches too)

She matches with Iron Age Thracian samples West (Mezocsat), South (Post-Psenichevo, Kapitan Andreevo) and East (Thraco-Cimmerian interaction). That's the DIRECT evidence that Salcuta is the main source for the ANF-rich ancestry in Thracians. Its connected to Bodrogkeresztur-Salcuta.
Also note she has actual minor steppe ancestry - so the "steppification" of Salcuta, which will end up with the ethnogenesis of Cotofeni/Pre-Thracians, already started.

Her pattern is nearly exactly the same as in the Iron Age Thracians - its more Western/Northern oriented, instead of Eastern-Southern. That's because BSK was connected to Starcevo, Eastern LBK, Vinca - not the East Balkan Neolithic group, which, as we can see from the Gumelnita samples even, had a wider spread and more admixture (non-ANF ancestry).

PaleoRevenge · Mar 14, 2026

Fshatar said:
It also doesn't really change the fact majority of R-Z2103>CTS1450/CTS9219 in this data set are BA-IA Illyrians. Publication of these studies will just add to known aDNA diversity of CTS1450/CTS9219 which this far is centred in an area stretching from Picentes and Iapygians to Syrmia/Lesser Pannonia and down to Illyrian proper territory aka Çinamak BA-IA, Kamenice BA-IA and with extensions in Paeonians.

Most of these Thracian claims here seem rather personal i.e. trying to link Albanians to Romanians due to personal ethnic Aromanian background from Southern Albania. This doesn't really matter end of day when it'll get nullified by studies with some good batches of BA-IA Illyrian R-Z2103>CTS9219>BY611 samples.

Pseudo-linguist, you can't even speak proper Albanian, you're in no position to decide who is Albanian, certainly not a Dalmatian-MENA substrate from Roman imperial slop.

CTS9219 is 2,600 BC, can you conceptualize time? You clearly can't. Plenty of new data, much larger than before from Iron Age and even MIA , from western Balkans, and none R-BY611, I am trembling at the thought of imaginary data that will make a sudden U turn from known data.

extensions in Paeonians.

Haha, now you are begging.

PaleoRevenge · Mar 14, 2026

Updated PCA from finalized coordinates.

It looks like they curated the old samples through some new techniques, for example the Himera E-V13s have zero matches to current database. I was the only who correctly proposed that these were Thracian + some Slavic like source. I showed it through real impressive QPDAM runs, which no one has toppled and there was plenty of evidence from weaponry that these were from black Sea area. Even Riverman ran with the euphoria of them being from central Balkans, current data shows this is plain impossible.

Also E-V13s samples clines right through modern Albanians, J2b does not do that. J2b clines to the middle east then teleports directly into the Slavic sphere.

PaleoRevenge · Mar 15, 2026

There is a cluster of strange samples that clusters like EIA Thrace but with less steppe and more Iran_N

I37203_R-Y5586
I43942_R-CTS699
I31776_R-CTS699
I13506_R-PF7563
I43919_R-PF7563
I44036_R-FT48367

It's a mixture of R-Z2103s and R-PF7563s. One of them is R-Y5586, which even today has it's center in Bulgaria but it is parallel branch to Slavic R-CTS1450 (R-Y14300), which hints the origin of the modern Slavic branch in the Daco-Thracian sphere.

Do these samples represent some kind of pre-Thracian population?

Riverman · Mar 15, 2026

With the clear results for the Mezocsat locals, that all those which have increased ANF and a stronger Thracian pull do indeed have IBD sharing with confirmed Iron Age Thracians, I think its necessary to differentiate a bit.

First, Mezocsat was quite obviously a hybrid culture. The main components were local Kyjatice people in the Western area of Mezocsat, which were shuffled around in that time and moved further to the East, as well as late Gáva in the East, which stratified society became degraded - plus the Cimmerian invaders from the East, which caused this degradation. But the Cimmerians brought some things also, like better breeds of horses and improved iron metallurgy and new weapon types - which made the Thraco-Cimmerian horizon, which Northern centre Mezocsat formed, so important - also for the emergence of the Iron Age Thracians ("Thracian Hallstatt") and the Hallstatt cultures in the West.

Having that in mind, it is good to look at hte PCA once more, to show which Mezocsat locals did have IBD matching with the Iron Age South Thracians:

Also compare with this post: https://genarchivist.net/showthread.php?tid=24&pid=72204#pid72204

It is absolutely clear that you have individuals like I18245 which are practically fully in the Tumulus culture to Kyjatice range. Incidently, she is no match for any Thracian.

Then we have female I11683, which is at the opposite end of the spectrum and clearly removed towards the Thracian core. She shares IBD segments with Thracians also. So do the other 2-3 females which are clearly pulled towards her and the Thracian sphere.

Then there is another individual I18211, which being pulled towards the steppe/Sabatinovka. Likely due to recent steppe admixture.

The first question to ask is, where did the most Thracian-oriented female come from? The answer is, she is the most North Eastern of all the samples! She is closest to the Upper Tisza of all tlhe samples!

I11683 - Ancient DNA Sample - Genetic Ancestry Analysis

Ancient DNA sample I11683 from Hungary. Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat

www.exploreyourdna.com

She is from Borsod-Abaúj-Zemplén:

That's still a borderzone between Kyjatice-Gáva in the LBA-EIA, before Mezocsat, the Cimmerian invasion. But just to make it clear: She is the only female which is at least close to former Gáva territory!

And her result is:
Target: Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683
Distance: 3.1620% / 0.03162037
61.8 TUR_Barcin_N
32.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
5.4 WHG

Therefore we can now say pretty confidently the following things, since this individual is highly likely
1) to represent a Mezocsat individual which is at least mostly Gáva-derived, unlike the other sampled individuals, which are at best Gáva-admixed and some are completely from other sources (like Kyjatice, like some WHG-rich outlier population etc.)
2) Gáva or the population she came from was essentially a Thracian group.

And now comes the critical question: Was she purely Proto-Thracian? Answer: No she was not.

These are her IBD matches:

Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Russia_Moscow_Fatyanovo_BA.SG:HAN002_noUDG.SG 8.05 21.75 3 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 France_GrandEst_EBA.SG:RIX15.SG 6.37 12.69 2 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Germany_Anderten_Saxon_Medieval:ADN005_noUDG 6.28 12.52 2 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Russia_MBA_Poltavka:I6294 6.20 12.28 2 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Serbia_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23205 10.99 10.99 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Croatia_MLBA:I18732 10.09 10.09 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Germany_Lech_EBA:OBKR_80 9.55 9.55 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Montenegro_MLBA.AG:I14501 9.07 9.07 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Slovenia_MBA:I5695 8.99 8.99 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Armenia_MBA:I1656 8.83 8.83 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 France_GrandEst_IA2.SG:ERS1164.SG 8.80 8.80 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Russia_Tver_Fatyanovo_BA.SG:BOL003_noUDG.SG 8.65 8.65 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Bulgaria_EIA:I20181 8.60 8.60 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Scotland_N:I3133 8.54 8.54 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Scotland_C_EBA.AG:I2567 8.50 8.50 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Italy_Medieval.SG:VK536_noUDG.SG 8.44 8.44 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Bulgaria_C:I2509 8.41 8.41 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Russia_MLBA_Sintashta:I1053 8.26 8.26 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Bulgaria_EBA:I2520 8.10 8.10 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Czech_CordedWare:I7208 8.01 8.01 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Estonia_CordedWare.SG_o1:MA826.RISE00_noUDG.SG 8.00 8.00 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Lithuania_Mesolithic:Spiginas4 7.95 7.95 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 England_LBA:I7576 7.91 7.91 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Switzerland_EBA_2:MX191 7.91 7.91 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Croatia_MBA:I4332 7.90 7.90 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Switzerland_LN.AG:Aes3 7.83 7.83 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Albania_BA_IA:I14690 7.81 7.81 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Croatia_MBA_Cetina:I18745 7.75 7.75 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Denmark_Viking.SG:VK372_noUDG.SG 7.75 7.75 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Kazakhstan_EBA_Yamnaya.SG

amgaard2018Yamnaya_noUDG.SG 7.75 7.75 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Scotland_N_mediumlowEEF:I2660 7.74 7.74 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Russia_MBA_Poltavka:I0371 7.74 7.74 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya:I7489 7.66 7.66 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Kazakhstan_Shoendykol_MLBA_Fedorovo:I10110 7.64 7.64 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Germany_CordedWare:I0103 7.63 7.63 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Switzerland_EBA_2_brother.MX188.AG:MX190 7.60 7.60 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Sweden_BAC.SG:ber2F_noUDG.SG 7.60 7.60 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Croatia_MBA:I5080 7.58 7.58 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Pakistan_Katelai_IA:I12464 7.54 7.54 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Moldova_Glinoe_Scythian.SG:scy300_noUDG.SG 7.49 7.49 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Italy_TarquiniaMonterozzi_IA.SG:R10361.SG 7.36 7.36 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Portugal_C.AG:I11614 7.33 7.33 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Moldova_MBA:I12510 7.22 7.22 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Kazakhstan_Kangju.SG

A229_noUDG.SG 7.20 7.20 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Russia_MLBA_Sintashta:I1089 7.19 7.19 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Serbia_BA_Maros:I17913 7.19 7.19 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Ukraine_N_oHG.AG:I5882_v52.2_d 7.14 7.14 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Czech_EBA_Unetice:MIB054 7.13 7.13 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Spain_IA.AG:I3321_d 7.13 7.13 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Russia_North_Caucasus.AG:GW1001 7.11 7.11 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Norway_Viking.SG:VK547_noUDG.SG 7.08 7.08 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Spain_Almoloya_Argar_Early:ALM021 7.08 7.08 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Poland_CordedWare.SG

oz81_noUDG.SG 7.08 7.08 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Spain_Greek_oLocal:I8209 7.07 7.07 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 England_MIA_LIA:I21309 7.05 7.05 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Slovenia_EIA:I5691 7.05 7.05 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 England_MBA.AG:I19860 7.05 7.05 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Ireland_LN.SG:CAK68.SG 7.02 7.02 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 England_MIA:I3014 7.01 7.01 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Norway_Viking.SG:VK387_noUDG.SG 7.01 7.01 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Germany_EBA_Unetice:I0164 6.97 6.97 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Czech_BellBeaker:I7251 6.96 6.96 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Russia_Srubnaya_Alakul.SG:mur004_noUDG.SG 6.92 6.92 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Russia_Afanasievo:I5272 6.91 6.91 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 England_BellBeaker:I2453 6.90 6.90 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 England_MBA:I19913 6.90 6.90 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Armenia_LBA:I19353 6.89 6.89 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Scotland_MBA.AG:I2653 6.86 6.86 1 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683 Hungary_Langobard_o1:SZ19 6.83 6.83 1 

She appears to have extra admixture from a steppe source (Füzesabony? Sabatinovka? Cimmerians?). That too fits with the Gáva zone. She also has two highly important IBD matches:
South Thracian Iron Age and the Salcuta-Gumelnita matrilinear Thracian founder from Bulgaria I2509 I wrote about above. I2509 mtDNA haplogroup is: https://discover.familytreedna.com/mtdna/K1a2/tree it was found in multiple samples from Urziceni Bodrogkeresztur-Salcuta - which beside her IBD matching with Urziceni samples suggests the relationship in a direct matrilinear fashion as well.

But back to the Mezocsat female: I11683 is the baseline for Gáva. This means, Gáva is unlikely to have had more steppe-HG ancestry than her, but could have been less, could have been even more ANF-rich. And of course has a clear Thracian affinity.

Probably also interesting: Where did the most WHG-shifted complete outlier individual come from? She came from Southern Hungary and might have been a residue from Encrusted Pottery or from the North East, outside of the Carüpathian basin:

I18241 - Ancient DNA Sample - Genetic Ancestry Analysis

Ancient DNA sample I18241 from Hungary. Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat_o1

www.exploreyourdna.com

The Thracian-admixed female which is between Kyjatice and the Gáva-dominated female from North Eastern Hungary is from the same site in Southern Hungary: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/hungary/I18213 She also shares IBD segments with the Thracians. Her haplogroup is https://discover.familytreedna.com/mtdna/T2a1b1a1/tree - which is interesting, because we have a Late Bronze Age female from North Eastern Hungary with the same haplogroup which has a Füzesabony autosomal profile.
Füzesabony was a mix of incoming Mierzanowice-Kostany people with local Hatvan, Vatya and in the East early phase Otomani people. The invaders did use inhumation, the locals cremation.

The second Thracian-admixed female from Mezocsat comes from a third site with this feature: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/hungary/I18239 - Again, she has Thracian IBD matching.

She is from the North of Hungary, a bit more Western from the most Thracian-shifted female in Heves county. Now Heves is most definitely much closer to Kyjatice core territory than Western neighbouring county Borsod-Abaúj-Zemplén, from which the more Thracian-oriented female is from.

Another female which is less admixed comes from Heves county as well: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/hungary/I18246 She has no Thracian IBD sharing.

Last comes the most West Carpathian, Tumulus-Kyjatice-like Mezocsat female - again, she is from Southern Hungary: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/hungary/I18245
Füzesabony-Kettőshalom (Csongrád-Csanád County, Csongrád)

Therefore we have a clear pattern:
1) The most Thracian-oriented (both IBD sharing, PCA plot and ANF-richness) come from areas closer to former Gáva territory, especially the North East, closer to the Upper Tisza.
2) The least Thracian and most Encrusted Pottery-Kyjatice derived individuals come from Füzesabony-Kettőshalom (Csongrád-Csanád County, Csongrád) - a single site in the relative South.

This alone completely refutes the idea of Southern/Balkan influences being the primary reason for this shift. The more North Eastern, closer to Gáva-territory sites have the most admixture from and the most IBD sharing with IA Thracians.

If we add to this a very similar pattern in Vekerzug, we can conclude that Gáva itself must have been ANF-rich (at least like I11683, which appears to have had more recent additional steppe admixture) with a baselilne of minimum 60 % plus and they have significant (!) IBD sharing with the Thracian core.

This goes through three samples from three different regions and sites of Mezocsat (!!!), from the North Central-East to the North East, to the South. This Gáva-/Thracian-admixture is omnipresent and it shifts the Mezocsat samples away from the Füzesabony, Tumuluis culture, Encrusted Pottery and Kyjatice samples of the previous period.

I thought about Basarabi playing a role here, but
a) Basarabi is practically parallel with some of these samples
b) There is absolutely no reason why in areas like Heves and Zemplin, in which we have evidence of significant Gáva tradition influences in the local Mezocsat populkation, should be stronger influenced by Basarabi than Csongrad county.

The most parsimonious interpretation is therefore that we can now safely assume that Gáva was way more ANF-rich than Füzesabony, Tumulus culture, Kyjatice to the West of it and that they were a strong participant in the Thracian Bronze Age network. Because again, we have multiple South Thracians with IBD matching, especially those which appear to be more pure and a bit more Northern than the South Eastern shifted ones, like first and foremost I20181, who has 3 significant Mezocsat/Gáva IBD matches.

This is so signficant, especially if taken together with the other lines of evidence proposed in the last postings, that we can assume a fairly recent contact of the Thracians from Kapitan Andreevo with the Gáva population, especially individal I20181 is likely to have had recent Gáva-related ancestry. Because he shares IBD segments with 3 different individuals, from 3 different sites. These females don't share among each other!
And the opposite path is much less likely, because of the timing and the context.

I always said that Gáva must be different from Kyjatice and that its profile must be visible in the Mezocsat locals, even if its just admixture. This makes actual Gáva samples - more samples from Mezocsat and the Ciumbrud group all the more exciting.

To make it clear: I don't propose an exclusive derivation of the Thracians from Gáva, but Gáva being part of the Thracian ancestral and cultural world - probably with a Northern tilt - and that especially the Northern branches of E-V13 will have been present in Gáva and spread with Gáva-related Channelled Ware.

Since my current preferred model is the "Big Block theory", which includes all cultures derived from Cotofeni/Gornea-Orlesti-Foeni ancestry and traditions, this includes for the South Thracians a "multi-wave" scenario in which not just one, but multiple waves from the Carpatho-Danubian Thracian cremation block reached the Thracian plain in Southern Bulgaira. Like Zimnicea-Plovdiv-Cerkovna, Brnjica-Paracin and Gáva-related Channeled Ware (mainly from Vartop-Gáva and Belegis II-Gáva). In such a scenario later colonists from Gáva-related Channelled Ware would have met already Thracian people (from ZPC and Brnjica). Psenichevo is then the result of a stronger local tradition and the base for South Thracians, whereas in the North from Gáva/Belegis/Vartop the North Thracians/Geto-Dacians emerge.

This could mean that some of the IBD sharing between Mezocsat and secondarily Vekerzug is not just due to very ancient connections, and also not due to very recent South to North migrations, but due to LBA and LBA/EIA exchange between the various Thracian groups, especially during the Gáva-related Channelled Ware phase, in which all Thracian groups were unified, for a short time, under one general koine, cultural canon - which was then broken up by the Cimmerian invasion again.

Riverman · Mar 15, 2026

PaleoRevenge said:
There is a cluster of strange samples that clusters like EIA Thrace but with less steppe and more Iran_N

It's a mixture of R-Z2103s and R-PF7563s. One of them is R-Y5586, which even today has it's center in Bulgaria but it is parallel branch to Slavic R-CTS1450 (R-Y14300), which hints the origin of the modern Slavic branch in the Daco-Thracian sphere.

Do these samples represent some kind of pre-Thracian population?

No, they represent early Greeks.

Like I13506 = https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/greece/i13506

Keep in mind that there is some overlap between the Greek and the Thracian sphere, also due to common ground from BSK/Salcuta and Gumelnita-Karanovo influences, which came down both independently and with the steppe influence. That's also why Greeks have received E-L618 lineages and some common yDNA/mtDNA with Bodrogkeresztur/Salcuta/Gumelnita.

But the crucial part is that HG is even lower in them and the Iranian admixture from Minoan/Aegean-Anatolian admixture is signficantly higher. Thracians don't have that. It is in fact the main admixture signature which separates them (Thracians have higher steppe, higher HG and much lower to in unmixed core individuals practically absent extra Iranian). This characteristic makes Salcuta/BSK the most likely ANF-rich source, because even Gumelnita tends to have a bit too much of this Iranian.

Greeks are ANF-rich primarily due to Aegean-Anatolian/Minoan-like ancestry, which brings in extra Iranian.
Thracians are ANF-rich primarily due to BSK-Salcuta and secondarily Bodrogkeresztur and Gumelnita ancestry - they have a bit of extra HG because of it.

On the West Eurasian PCA which is for ancients (other than to distinguish Celto-Germanic from Balto-Slavic) best, this pulls Thracians a bit more to the left and Greeks to the right - relatively - all the WHG-rich people are to the left of the Thracians.

Riverman · Mar 15, 2026

Mezocsat is a Post-Gáva hybridised horizon. I analysed all the samples of the local females we got and the pattern is pretty unambiguous:

The whole central region being dominated by a mix of Kjatice-Gáva - or put differently, by Kyjatice pulled towards the Thracian core.
The strongest Thracian-like shift is in the most North Eastern sample - which is, however, still West of the Tisza, sitll not in the Gáva core zone!
That this variation is old can be also proven by the site of Füzesabony in the South-central part of Hungary, Csongrad district. Becuase even there we find a female with Thracian shift and IBD sharing, but also another one which appears to be half-way between Encrusted Pottery and Kyjatice. So there is a WHG-rich regional element in the South also.

This is the upside-down pattern for all the naysayers which would have implied an expansion of Thracian-like or even not that, just "West Balkan" ancestry from the South. The least Balkan/Thracian-shifted individuals come from the South and they show contacts to the Encrusted Pottery sphere and very Eastern sphere.

The most Thracian-shifted individual comes from the Upper Tisza zone - yet still not in Gáva but old Kyjatice territory, which implies that between the LBA to the EIA Gáva/Thracian ancestry did expand, all the way along the Tisza, but especially in the North.

I concentrated on the three Northern samples which appear to be mixed, one highly mixed if not dominated by Gáva ancestry:

As you can see, all three Mezocsat females from the North East being shifted autsoomally away from the Kyjatice-Tumulus culture sphere or older LBA samples and towards a Thracian-like population. The shift is only moderate in two of them, those which are more Western, but strong in the more Eastern female from Mezőkeresztes. Note that I was wrong before, even the slighly mixed female shows some Thracian-related IBD sharing, to be exact with Glinoe Thraco-Scythians, with sample Moldova_Glinoe_Scythian.SG:scy300_noUDG.SG. And this is important, because this Glinoe sample is among the three Glinoe Thraco-Scythains which show IBD sharing with the South Thracian IA individuals also (scy197, scy300, scy311).

Therefore all the Thracian-shifted/admixed Mezocsat females have at least some IBD sharing with other Thracian groups. The most Kyjatice or Encrusted Pottery shifted individuals, just to make that clear also, do not!

In the previous period there existed no individuals with even more than 50 % ANF in that region any longer - not in Füzesabony, not in Tumulus culture, not in Kyjatice. So this shift being most definitely associated with the latest LBA-EIA and again, the only significant archaeological material influence in Mezocsat, as widespread and significant as it should be to account for such a massive shift, is Gáva.

Since all these females being admixed, have Kyjatice ancestry (too), we can only speculate about the character of Gáva in detail. But fact is, already now, it must have been way, way more ANF-rich than Kyjatice, Tumulus culture or Füzesabony, and it must have been part of the MBA-LBA-EIA network of the Thracian sphere.

It is possible to end up with the 3 moderately Gáva admixed females by simply adding: Kyjatice reference + I11683 - if assuming the 3 moderately mixed females are 50 : 50. Everything would of course change drastically if they are less admixed than 50 %. It can't be more, because the lower end if already defined by I11683, which has some additoinal steppe and WHG ancestry, which also shows in the IBD segments.

So either I11683 is the standard for very Western Gáva, from which most of this admxture comes from, or Gáva is even more ANF-rich. I tend to the second, also because the site from which this female is from is still very much too Western, too Kyjatice, and she shows admixture through IBD sharing which Gáva probably didn't have or didn't have as much.

It is a pity that we don't have more Eastern samples from the local population yet, but we can now confidently say that Gáva was a Thracian culture - be it more or less steppe/WHG shifted (can't be more than I11683!!!), it doesn't matter, the autosomal and IBD pattern alone is strong enough to win the case.

broder · Mar 15, 2026

Riverman said:
No, they represent early Greeks.

Like I13506 = https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/greece/i13506

Keep in mind that there is some overlap between the Greek and the Thracian sphere, also due to common ground from BSK/Salcuta and Gumelnita-Karanovo influences, which came down both independently and with the steppe influence. That's also why Greeks have received E-L618 lineages and some common yDNA/mtDNA with Bodrogkeresztur/Salcuta/Gumelnita.

But the crucial part is that HG is even lower in them and the Iranian admixture from Minoan/Aegean-Anatolian admixture is signficantly higher. Thracians don't have that. It is in fact the main admixture signature which separates them (Thracians have higher steppe, higher HG and much lower to in unmixed core individuals practically absent extra Iranian). This characteristic makes Salcuta/BSK the most likely ANF-rich source, because even Gumelnita tends to have a bit too much of this Iranian.

Greeks are ANF-rich primarily due to Aegean-Anatolian/Minoan-like ancestry, which brings in extra Iranian.
Thracians are ANF-rich primarily due to BSK-Salcuta and secondarily Bodrogkeresztur and Gumelnita ancestry - they have a bit of extra HG because of it.

On the West Eurasian PCA which is for ancients (other than to distinguish Celto-Germanic from Balto-Slavic) best, this pulls Thracians a bit more to the left and Greeks to the right - relatively - all the WHG-rich people are to the left of the Thracians.

Yeah I think so, CTS699 was probably Mycenaean

Riverman · Mar 15, 2026

broder said:
Yeah I think so, CTS699 was probably Mycenaean

Going upstream the parallel branches appear especially in Yamnaya and Maros. That, I would say, points to Vucedol. To call Vucedol Illyrian in the sense of the later Iron Age Illyrians is probably a bit too much, but the affiliation is definitely more with Illyrian. At the same, Maros was exactly between three diffrent major blocks:
Illyrian - Encrusted Pottery (unknown) and Thracian

With some of these elements moving to Greece, they could either have been part of the Greek sphere or simply being assimilated. Those staying in Maros could have gone either way, towards Illyrian and towards Thracian, because the group was basically annihilated and the rests assimilated.
Since R-CTS699 appeared in Italics, it was definitely taken away by some Urnfield movements (which were rather Italo-Celtic and Thracian) as well.

At this point I think the Proto-Greeks played a role in the downfall and large scale disappearance of Cernvoda II-Ezero in the Central-East Balkans. They raided them down, the remains were assimilated (that's why we see E-L618 and other yDNA/mtDNA haplogroups from the BSK-GKV and Horodistea-Foltesti/Cernavoda II sphere in Greeks), annihilated or moved out (fled to Anatolia).

This might have been part of the MBA hiatus in the Thracian plain/East Rhodopes and opened up the route for the expansion of the Thracian groups from the Carpatho-Danubian sphere, which had an easy walk into those largely degraded or even deserted areas.

I thought about that the last days, how the appearance of the Greeks coincides with the regional East Balkan groups collapse. I now longer think that's by chance and it also explains why Greeks have so many Balkan minority lineages (including E-L618) both on the male and female side of the uniparentals, because many of these Balkan remains seem to have joined the invaders.

Kind of like the Avars taking with them all these Daco-Roman and Slavic groups they encountered to the East to the fringes of their rule.

Currently, the most clearly Proto-Greek branch might be https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-PF7562/tree

And the good knews is, that there are a ton of new samples for this branch incoming. With only a fraction of the Akbari samples being assigned, they still have dozens of samples under that branch and its unlikely all of them are from much later periods.

kingdavid · Mar 15, 2026

riverman i saw this at reddit
so i share
a modern turkish tester who fall on a rare branch E-FTJ29000 that derived directly from e-L618

p.s
amazing it shows how important is for people to go all the way and buy big-y700 test

Riverman · Mar 16, 2026

I wrote about that at genarchivist. We have now two old, isolated E-L618 branches with an ancient DNA sample from Europe and one from the Caucasus/Near East (Georgia and Iraq respectively). But its hard to conclude too much from it, because we also have other branches of E-L618 and E-V13 which were proven to be from Europe, and today they being (so far) only found in the Near East or North Africa. But its great to see that these branches did survive and where nevertheless. With more BigY testers we would get a better understanding.

PaleoRevenge · Mar 17, 2026

Remember the E-V13(I5724) from Croatia near the Slovenian border? A big deal was made that it plotted like Illyrians. Well this is the IBD network

Compare other IA samples from Croatia (I18830, I18831, I5723, I5725, I5726, I5728, I5729)

The real Illyrian samples are consistent they share big segments with each other because if you are related to someone, you should be sharing segments. So I'd throw caution on alleged E-V13s samples that plot Illyrian as most turn out to be un-illyrian. One can see I5724 shares most segments with Celts but his real network is missing, because west dacians(or any Dacians and west Thracian for that matter) remains unpublished, thus his IBD sharing network looks incomplete like many of the Thracian samples.

Riverman · Mar 17, 2026

The New E-CTS1975 with a rather Gumelnita-Karanovo-Varna to BSK profile just split the branch.
That makes his origin and background all the more interesting.

PaleoRevenge · Mar 21, 2026

What happened to E-BY5022 being the only Thracian E-V13 clade, did I miss something? It used to be the talk of the town by J2b intellectuals.

Riverman · Mar 21, 2026

Here is a PCA with many of the main Thracian branches and as you can see, there is a cluster of samples right around the Thracian from North Bulgaria (North of the Balkan mountains) and the two more Northern shifted South Thracians plus the E-FGC11451 centered ANF-rich cluster of the new samples. Nearly all main branches of E-V13 have at least one or two samples either directly witin that circle or very nearby. It is therefore a clearly defined "common ground". The typical ancestral proportion of this Thracian core is about 3/4 ANF : 1/4 Steppe, but the steppe in the core group doesn't fall below 22 and gets up to 32 % - without increasing the proportion of Iranian or HG ancestry. That's the typical Thracian profile: The steppe can increase or fall, but its about fairly pure ancestral components of ANF : Steppe in roughly the 3 : 1 proportion.

That all E-V13 branches have members at least within the wider circle, so if including a bit WHG and/or a bit higher steppe points to the common source population and profile for all branches of E-V13.

What we can also see: Some of the South Thracians with less steppe and more Near East/Iranian fall outside the very core. They point to the beginning admixture in some South Thracian clans already in the Post-Psenichevo period, whereas many of the still fairly pure samples appear to be much younger, like coming from later Roman era Viminacium etc.

Riverman · Mar 22, 2026

Searching for more samples with the right ratio of high ANF and low steppe, without other significant admixture - note that practically all samples not listed here were already gathered during my search for E-V13 branches - so they all are E-V13 - except those females and exceptional haplogroups/indviduals:

Mygdalia - the Balkan-shifted Greek site: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/greece/myg004
G-FT41706 - upstream samples are from Lasinja group in Slovakia - which had connections to Starcevo-Körös, Eastern LBK and Tiszapolgar-Bodrogkeresztur.

I46269.TW T2a1a mtDNA is from Yamnaya (core). She plots with Thracians.

I43959.TW HV0a largely Thracian

I39099.TW U5a1c2a1 Thracian

I41215.TW H1+16189 Thracian

I41135.TW C-Z29332 H Thracian - https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/C-Z29332/tree He comes from an East Thracian site in the Gothic era and has an E-V13 beside him which is a bit more admixed, but Thracian still.
Upstream this branch has samples in Urziceni-Bodrogkeresztur.

I42264.TW U8b1a2b* Thracian

I31263.TW H1e2 Thracian

G37 Greece: 2476 BCE - 2293 BCE https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/...jGr8L8g19rfe_EA-Zb3GCuOE_HvdcYbUR1h_P8I#story
J-BY37902 = rare, Near Eastern oriented branch.
His mtDNA is https://discover.familytreedna.com/mtdna/H11a66'67/tree which was also found in Vatya, Hungary.
I really wonder about the dating of this sample, also because of his mtDNA assignment.

IBD matching - has recent matching with Yamanya, no close connection to Thracians at first glance but didn't check all:
G37.SG I24093.AG 24.73 Yamnaya: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/russia/i24093 I26307.AG 19.64 I25159.AG 18.91 I3387.SG 18.81 Afanasievo: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/russia/i3387 RDV001.AG 18.52 RISE511.SG 18.23 Afanasievo: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/russia/rise511 I3949.DG 17.99 I10398.AG 17.66 RK4002.AG 17.32 I8494.AG 16.96 I33308.TW 15.97 I0112.SG 15.53 I17743.AG.TW 15.49 I7620.AG 15.48 I8485.AG 15.45 I20101.AG.TW 15.12 I26216.AG 14.90 I12843.AG 14.83 I25167.AG 14.76 I28316.AG 13.48 I7483.SG 13.11 I26218.AG 11.66 I0361.AG 11.03 I33307.TW 10.92 I24086.AG 10.80 I20559.AG 10.65 I6564.AG 10.57 I20099.AG 10.54 I7282.AG 10.46 VLI067.AG 10.46 I32999.TW 10.37 I12243.AG 10.21 I26089.AG 10.11 I4973.AG 10.03 I12779.AG 9.98 I6731.SG 9.87 BOK017.AG 9.85 I6730.SG 9.66 GLN291.AG 9.58 I24090.AG 9.52 VLI016.AG 9.51 MA826.RISE00.SG 9.35 I2163.AG 9.13 I5277.SG 9.13 I7484.SG 9.13 I7490.AG 9.13 I20112.AG 9.13 I3950.DG 9.06 I16803.AG 9.04 I12963.AG 9.01 I25466.AG 9.00 NAU002.SG 9.00 I7199.AG 9.00 I12245.AG.TW 8.94 RISE97.SG 8.93 I10321.AG 8.88 I10567.AG 8.88 I20196.AG.TW 8.88 I6774.AG 8.73 I0231.SG 8.72 I33070.TW 8.71 I6297.AG.TW 8.67 I10140.AG 8.65 I21182.AG 8.60 I46213.TW 8.60 I27380.AG 8.54 I3951.SG 8.54 I11838.AG 8.53 I10112.AG 8.52 I26778.AG 8.52 I6729.DG 8.52 als001.SG 8.50 I10363.AG 8.50 I0441_enhanced.AG 8.48 I40372_preQC.TW 8.48 I6714.DG 8.44 I10553.AG 8.43 I26620.AG 8.43 I25850.AG 8.42 S47927_Charm.51_SQ.TW 8.39 I25169.AG 8.38 I12499.AG 8.36 I21071.AG 8.36 I26528.AG 8.36 NEO509.SG 8.35 PSS4170.SG 8.34 I44986.TW 8.31 KD057.SG 8.28 I5525.AG 8.23 DA2.SG 8.21 I38387.TW 8.18 I7142.SG 8.18 I7143.AG 8.18 RISE446.SG 8.17 I2604.AG 8.15 RISE509.SG 8.14 I22618.AG 8.14 I9151.AG 8.13 I38702.TW 8.07 I25429.AG 8.06 I11999.AG.TW 8.03 ROU007.AG 8.03 I43296.TW 7.98 VJ1001.AG 7.96 I2105.DG 7.94 I29183.TW 7.94 I3388.DG 7.93 I12247.AG 7.93 KOP002.AG 7.90 I5748.DG 7.90 I39208.TW 7.89 I24089.AG 7.88 I14193.AG 7.88 I26331.AG 7.82 I43939.TW 7.82 R10344.SG 7.82 I10589.AG 7.81 I1029.AG 7.80 I40725.TW 7.77 R6764.SG 7.76 I25467.AG 7.73 I44883_preQC.TW 7.72 I2039.AG 7.70 I25161.AG 7.70 I41766_preQC.TW 7.70 VLI076.AG 7.61 I25164.AG 7.59 b8-2.AG.SG 7.59 I6712.AG 7.59 KMM033.AG 7.59 R1014_oEEF.SG 7.59 I26780.AG 7.56 R10657.SG 7.56 I27888.AG 7.55 I3952.SG 7.54 PDA002.AG 7.54 VLI024.AG 7.52 I40817.TW 7.52 I7491.SG 7.52 ber1M.SG 7.51 I25028.AG 7.49 I14171.AG 7.48 I0374.AG 7.47 Schw72-15.SG 7.46 I34737.TW 7.46 I25848.AG 7.46 GLN250.AG 7.46 gur017.SG 7.46 I10317.AG 7.45 I12935.AG 7.45 I26742.AG 7.45 I0371.AG 7.45 I42369.TW 7.45 MGS232.AG 7.44 I32649.TW 7.44 I29487.TW 7.43 I26049.AG 7.42 I25026.AG 7.42 I31779.TW 7.41 I3320.AG 7.38 pcw211.SG 7.38 I7249.SG 7.37 I37262.TW 7.36 MOK23.SG 7.36 I4884.AG 7.35 I13792.AG 7.35 WBK08.SG 7.34 I13812.AG 7.32 ESY006.AG 7.29 I43943.TW 7.28 I10008.AG 7.27 I2362.AG 7.27 I7051.AG 7.26 I20631.AG 7.26 LEU024.AG 7.24 I12637.AG 7.24 I23259.AG 7.21 kzb002.SG 7.21 MX188.AG 7.21 MX190.AG 7.21 A181024.AG 7.21 I46595.TW 7.21 I33259.TW 7.19 I12686.AG.TW 7.19 I25600.AG 7.17 I10384.AG 7.16 S45177_Scrum.30_SQ.TW 7.16 I10627.AG.TW 7.16 MJ-12.SG 7.15 I10499.AG 7.15 I32875.TW 7.14 I1053.DG 7.14 I38641.TW 7.14 I26300.AG 7.14 I25018.AG 7.12 I30132.TW 7.11 I1381.AG 7.11 I2861.DG 7.11 VLI071.AG 7.10 I10645.AG 7.09 I11840.AG 7.09 I26621.AG 7.09 I32879.TW 7.09 CAH010.AG 7.09 N44.SG 7.09 I26694.AG 7.09 I16013.AG 7.08 I22064.AG 7.08 FRA027.SG 7.07 MX195.AG 7.07 ADN003.AG 7.06 ADN005.AG 7.06 I32850.TW 7.06 I14154.AG 7.05 I25019.AG 7.04 I41651.TW 7.04 I0232.AG 7.04 I25487.AG 7.03 pcw260.SG 7.02 R111.SG 7.01 LEU007.AG 7.00 

I23112.AG K1a4 Mostly Thracian

Antiquity Croatia - female: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/croatia/r3746

I41757.TW T2b Thracian (North rather)

I43006.TW E-FT61046 branch of E-Z5018 - North Thracian rather and I doubt the Late Antiquity assignment, he will likely split the branch and land in the IA.

Sample from Viminacium: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/serbia/r6756 Thracian

I43717.TW H13a2c1* Thracian overall

I42864.TW H5b Thracian (North rather)

I28670.AG T-L446 H23 North Thracian-like, rather - branch was found in Varna: https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/T-L446/tree

His IBD matches:
I28670.AG I28461.AG 741.51 Looks Thraco-Greek. I28671.AG 434.66 Looks North Thracian to mixed with West Balkan I28460.AG 193.65 Another  T-L446 - rather West Balkan-like but with possible East Asian in combination he could be Thraco-Cimmmerian/Scythian or the like Thracian mixed also. R851.SG 12.36 Italian IA https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/italy/r851 I26785.AG 11.17 Steppe I29027.AG 10.28 Italian BA-IA? I20232.AG 10.20 Aegean Turkey: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/turkey/i20232 DA195.SG 9.57 Iron Age Scythian from Hungary: https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/...Xc2cF6Rq8GpET-6Fq3WwI-auJNfFzwaMAJdK5rInCXraa PN04.SG 9.38 I47272.TW 9.12 I13893.AG 9.00 I20751.AG.TW 8.66 I21390.AG 8.52 I44864.TW 8.46 I24698.AG 8.45 rath3.SG 8.35 KO1002.AG 8.28 I12619.AG 8.23 I43933.TW 8.20 NEO945.SG 8.19 I35093.TW 8.18 I30712.TW 8.16 DA35.SG 8.12 I38994.TW 8.07 I39295.TW 7.98 I29025.AG 7.92 I2380_enhanced.AG 7.90 poz658.SG 7.89 I8482.AG 7.86 I44979_preQC.TW 7.86 I34741.TW 7.84 S47493_Fluffle.18_SQ.TW 7.84 I41140.TW 7.83 I26750.AG 7.76 I12245.AG.TW 7.67 KD057.SG 7.67 ST1279.SG 7.67 I4323.AG 7.65 I45877.TW 7.64 I26332.AG 7.61 I43714.TW 7.58 KIL009.B.AG 7.57 S45177_Scrum.30_SQ.TW 7.53 I35001.TW 7.51 I14585.AG 7.48 I38870.TW 7.47 NA10847 7.46 I42285.TW 7.45 R850.SG 7.45 I10634.AG 7.43 I10635.AG 7.43 I13331.AG 7.43 I7359.AG 7.43 I44008.TW 7.41 I17926.AG 7.41 I39230.TW 7.39 PIE023.AG 7.38 Pietrele-Gumelnita I21071.AG 7.37 I39218.TW 7.35 I7890.AG 7.31 I17513.AG 7.31 I28168.AG 7.31 I32875.TW 7.31 I18488.AG 7.28 I35778.TW 7.23 I28222.TW 7.23 I12438.AG.TW 7.22 PLE-441.SG 7.21 Anapa-11.SG 7.21 I16674.AG 7.21 I44371_preQC.TW 7.21 I40624.TW 7.19 ST0219.SG 7.18 I38709.TW 7.17 DER034.AG 7.16 I38737.TW 7.16 I43437.TW 7.16 Herx.SG 7.14 I41390.TW 7.14 I30530.TW 7.12 I35154.TW 7.10 I42958.TW 7.10 I43375.TW 7.09 I30117.TW 7.08 SSD-58.SG 7.05 I0410.SG 7.02 KH150193_KH150286.SG 7.02 I10645.AG 7.01 I11033.AG 7.01 

Hard to pin down but a possible Thracian connection should be investigated, depending on exact context.

I42623.TW U4b1a1a1 Thracian

I43745.TW C-F22551 H1e1b1 rather North Thracian-like. https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/C-F22551/tree Branch was found in Cardial context beside the E-L618 sample (Zemunica cave) and downstream is the Thracian Hallstatt Kartal sample and the other Thracian sample also. Plus there are a lot of new samples incoming, which being placed on this branch.

So we can now say with some certainty that this C branch was present among Thracians. Plus it seems to have had a similar fate to E-L618, because its being present in Greeks also. Upstream samples are from Eastern/Hungarian LBK and Gumelnita - AGAIN, proving that network along the Danube which persisted into the Copper Age.
C-F22551 being by now pretty much confirmed to be the so far second most common haplogroup after E-V13 in core Thracian autosomal individuals. The presence in a mixed Thracian Hallstatt Kartal individual was therefore NOT BY CHANCE. It proves the Thracian Hallstatt Kartal indivduals were Thracians on the male side and mixed-took wives locally.

Sarmatian era female from Hungary: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/hungary/rko014 Thracian

I43820.TW Mostly Thracian - trace level East Asian possible.
G-FTF13209 = https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/G-FTF13209/tree Branch from Urziceni/Bodrogkeresztur and Hungarian LBK, but ended up in early Greeks also, like most of the listed outlier branches. A couple of new samples added to this one, so lets see where they end up! Could be a second branch which appears in Thracians and Greeks, likely coming from the Carpathian Basin-North Balkan.
H*4

I31998.TW H Thracian rather

I34251.TW U5a1a1 North Thracian

I35009 - Hvar, Late Antiquity Croatia: He is E-M215, likely E-V13 - but even if not...

Fundort: Hvar–Radošević (Grave 1 / G1), Kroatien.
Zeitraum: Spätantike (ca. 300–500 n. Chr.).

He appears to be mostly North Thracian or Thracian with West Balkan mixed. But his overwhelming ancestry is for sure Daco-Thracian. Good example for a late Antiquity find from Croatia - he or his direct ancestors were recent migrants from the Daco-Thracian sphere.

Balkan oriented Greece-Mygdalia site like before: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/greece/myg006

Same: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/greece/myg005

I43005.TW U4a2 North Thracian, possible West Balkan adm.

Mygdalia again: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/greece/myg008

I42400.TW J1c5 North Thracian - poss. minor adm.

I43949.TW W1 North Thracian - poss. minor adm.

https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/croatia/r3743 Thracian with Illyrian adm?

I41734.TW K1a4a1 North Thracian - poss. minor adm.

I43697.TW I-FT413656 https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-FT413656/tree North Thracian rather.

https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/...ot8tBawmUdgJmcdDxJqOIYVaBO_t6fJk2Ww483S9#hero North Macedonian IA

It looks like less than 70 % ANF becomes less typical or more prone to foreign admixture overall. The main with non-Thracians is with the Mygdalia samples from Greece which are however Carpatho-Balkan shifted outliers - genetically - in the BA Greek context.

Interestingly, all those samples I quoted being embedded within E-V13 samples I have identified. So this is clearly a generalised Thracian oriented horzon with 68-80 ANF, 18-32 Steppe - the most stable ratio is 70-75 ANF and 22-28 Steppe, rest, if present, being trace levels of WHG and Iranian-like ancestry.

Here is a PCA only with the newly identified samples with a Thracian-like profile/ancestral proportions:

The main cluster here is made out of females with Thracian-like ancestral proportions of ANF : Steppe.
The 3 South Eastern pulled old South Thracian samples remain outliers. Only one of the Viminacium Roman era samples is with them.
The second Viminacium sample, despite being even E-BY5022, is in the "pure Thracian" cluster. I think we can say now for sure that "pure Thracians" survived at the very least up to the 4th century AD. Because even the Gothic era samples from Bulgaria have only minor admixture, rather.
Another takeaway is the above already mentioned Thracian character (at least some branches) of C-F22551. Two samples appear to be typical Thracians and I found no other haplogroup, other than possibly - much less clear, T-L446.
That there is no other branch in the typical Thracian ratio is absolutely striking. Nearly all males are E-V13, those who not are clear outliers in time, space and exact ethnic mix.
The only exceptions are C-F22551 (safest) and C-Z29332, plus just possibly T-L446 at first glance.
The late Iron Age South Thracian is a complete outlier - both relative to the South Thracians, the confirmed Thracian female and the samples gathered. This proves that at least some Thracian groups did mix heavily with Aegean-Anatolian-Levantine elements already in the Pre-Roman era. While others did not mix at all, up to around the 3rd-4th century AD at the very minimum.

PaleoRevenge · Mar 24, 2026

Added the old data to the new E-V13s

Riverman · Mar 24, 2026

I think samples I41598 and I40508 under E-BY4642 could potentially be some of the oldest Thracian E-V13 samples in the data base:

E-V13 - Theories on its Origin and New Data

The have much closer than usual steppe matches, and also pretty close matches to Neolithic (like MN Hungary) and Thracian (South Thracian and Mezhocsat) matches.

In the admixture run, they have a bit extra Iranian, but otherwise they fit perfectly, having practically no IBD sharing with Greeks or other groups in an even remotely comparable amount to the steppe IBD matches they have. These could be LBA-EIA old I guess.

Its not sure, it could be wrong, but the matching is most unusual for individuals with that Thracian-like profile.

Riverman · Mar 25, 2026

Since I41598 seems to be likely the oldest and most important sample for E-V13 in the whole set, I did try to find out even more about his IBD matches and the results are absolutely striking:

I41598.TW     NEO147.SG 15.09 MN Tisza, very high ANF: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/hungary/neo147 Closest match!     I5126.SG 14.87 Yamnaya: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/hungary/i5126     I34066.TW 12.18 Italian-Etruscan?     I6919.SG 11.23 Yamnaya: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/russia/i6919     I7142.SG 10.86 haplo https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-Y92973/tree found in Pietrele, BA BG and Monteoru! WHG shifted with minor steppe. Outliers in Pietrele, better for average in Motneoru for example.     I29039.AG 9.86 R-P312 likely from Italian-Etruscan     I41740.TW 9.63   E-BY6170 Rare branch of  E-S2979, TMRCA in the Iron Age. Thracian     HG00102 9.58 Modern British woman: https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/...tSSQTkH_Pl_rnDkYyVCYK5d6CU8XZQ0aspa2S5UiDdLfs     I45911.TW 9.58 likely from Italian-Etruscan     RISE1166.SG 9.55 Poland (CW?)     I42262.TW 9.52 Northern/Eastern Euro     N44.SG 9.51 Poland CW: https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/...96zQPL4Ira_xau7E4N3u3au8vvEsK07cm52kulH9#hero     I26021.AG 9.42 Yamnaya     I18213.AG 9.42 Mezocsat culture, Thracian shifted, IBD sharing with other Thracians: https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/sample/view/cinematic/id/i18213#hero     I3132.SG 9.14 Scotland, Beaker derived: https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/sample/view/cinematic/id/i3132#hero     I34045.TW 9.04  N-FTG82256 Hun-Avar mix?     I26735.AG 9.02 foreign mix     RISE1167.SG 8.98 Polish GAC: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/poland/rise1167     RISE1171.SG 8.98 Polish GAC: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/poland/rise1171     I39048.TW 8.97 Italian-Etruscan     I19964.AG 8.84 Volosovo Eneolithic Russia: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/russia/i12964     I44930.TW 8.76 Celtic-Germanic?     HAN002.SG 8.76 Fatyanovo: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/russia/han002     I0018.SG 8.74 German LBK: https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/...7PtLWRUD-Z8WauVSUMxtoGPFhAu7kfiW4OwTrl_luycXH     I39013.TW 8.73 Italian-Etruscan     I7047.AG 8.65 Italian-Etruscan     I45576_preQC.TW 8.65 Italian-Etruscan     I7490.AG 8.61 Yamnaya     I23096.AG 8.53 ECA Hungary, Tiszapolgar-Bodrogkeresztur: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/hungary/i23096     poz790.SG 8.45 Mierzanovice: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/poland/poz790     I43716.TW 8.24  E-FGC11451 admixed Thracian     I12846.AG 8.24 Punic Italy: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/italy/i12846     I7372.AG 8.23  I-FT384997 Neolithic with increased WHG     I8952.AG.TW 8.18 Yamnaya: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/russia/i8952     I45416_preQC.TW 8.18 Italian-Etruscan rather     TRPTN_611.SG 8.17 UK Neolithic     I29562.TW 8.17 Yamnaya: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/russia/i29562     I13813.AG 8.12 Afanasievo: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/russia/i13813     TUC004.AG 8.12 Czech Rivnac (related to Baden!) https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/...9DE5egC0Z_ROn1imQpHpPOXQ3fkzwvRCeV3WZbBb#hero     LEU039.AG 8.11 German Unetice: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/germany/leu039     SH-106.SG 8.08 EMA Hungary: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/hungary/sh-106     I10241.AG 8.05 Unetice?     KOP002.AG 8.04 Czech Beaker: https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/...vs46cRyxq5GfaaGEikVSo3pkjo74t8cd9ReUy4JA#hero     I14620.AG 8.03 EIA Armenia: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/armenia/i14620     I42461.TW 7.96 Mix - Avar era?     KPN007.AG 7.95 MA Denmark: https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/sample/view/cinematic/id/kpn007     I47062.TW 7.95  E-FGC11450 Avar era mix?     VLI007.AG 7.95 Czech CW     I39371.TW 7.89 Scythian or Avar mix?     I0243.AG 7.89 Yamnaya: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/russia/i0243     NA20586 7.89 Modern Italian: https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/...Bd5pRiRKSufFtWzslwYqI3w4RXUkQ8ryaHFWNyTc#hero     GLN321.AG 7.88 French Neolithic     I20500.SG 7.83     I18924.AG 7.80  L-L595 - Possible Gumelnita to Anatolian mix     VLI024.AG 7.79     I44071.TW 7.77     I26435.AG 7.76     I12776.AG 7.76     I41705.TW 7.76     I32997.TW 7.74     I19860.AG 7.72     scy010.SG 7.69 Ukrainian IA Scythian: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/ukraine/scy010     I0104.SG 7.66 German CW: https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/...CWwzqrlJe70bEhSl7qDYMW4e7g6dsB0lAh78-hNE#hero     NEO792.SG 7.66 Danish CW: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/denmark/neo792     I27784.AG 7.62     I13633.AG 7.61     I28725.TW 7.61     I5427.AG 7.59 Earlier Neolithic Greece: https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/sample/view/cinematic/id/i5427     I26834.AG 7.59     NA20766 7.59     I8060.AG 7.58     I37439.TW 7.58     RISE1165.SG 7.58 Polish GAC     I22115.AG 7.56     I42350.TW 7.53     I45957.TW 7.52     I14092.AG 7.51     I25499.AG 7.46     AITI_78.AG.SG 7.45 German Bell Beaker     I35714.TW 7.45     I30230.TW 7.43     I0410.SG 7.43     I5463.AG 7.40     I26216.AG 7.40     I29028.AG 7.39     I35553.TW 7.38     NEO866.SG 7.35 Eneolithic Danmark: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/denmark/neo866     I10398.AG 7.35     I20796.AG 7.32 EIA Sardinia: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/italy/i22096     pcw361.SG 7.29     I43644_preQC.TW 7.28     I44455.TW 7.27     I0432.SG 7.26     VLI061.AG 7.25     I39180.TW 7.24     I40185.TW 7.24     ILK001.AG 7.23     I38698.TW 7.23     I3954.SG 7.23     I1767.AG 7.21     IND017.AG 7.21 Late Antiquity German, Alt-Inden: https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/sample/view/cinematic/id/ind017#hero     I6713.AG 7.17 Afanasievo: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/russia/i6713     I39300.TW 7.15     I39669.TW 7.15     MDM006.SG 7.15 East Med outlier in Netherlands: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/netherlands/mdm006     OHR002.AG 7.14 Czech CW: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/czechia/ohr002     I28818.AG 7.14     VK512.SG 7.14     I44996_preQC.TW 7.12     NEO536.SG 7.12 Mesolithic Russia: https://www.dnagenics.com/ancestry/sample/view/cinematic/id/neo536#hero     VK446.SG 7.12     I26656.AG 7.11     I42615.TW 7.10     I13461.AG 7.09     I39462.TW 7.07     I42998.TW 7.06     ST2213.SG 7.06     I32866.TW 7.06     I42069.TW 7.02     I44420_preQC.TW 7.02     I29072.AG 7.02     I31707.TW 7.00 

What he gets:
Even more Yamnaya, Bell Beaker, Corded Ware, Unetice, GAC
More Tiszapolgar-Bodrogkersztur
More Gumelnita
A lot more Etruscans - Proto-Villanova connection!

When Gáva material was first discovered, many researchers called it "Villanova-like" for a reason, because there is a connection from Gáva (Transtisiza, Tisza-Danube) over Kyjatice and Tumulus culture/Middle Danubian Urnfield group to Italy, to the Protovillanovans (Etruscans? Italic tribes? Venetic people involved?).

And this Urnfield highway is noticeable e.g. by looking at swords from Gáva, Belegis II-Gáva, as far as Knobbed Ware in Bulgaria and comparing them with sword types in the mentioned groups - its not just ceramic, its ritual, weapons etc.

Now this connection does appear in many of the rather pure/North shifted Thracians, not just him, and at first I was a bit hesitant to call it out, but now I think what we see is the Urnfield connection in the Gáva-related groups of the North Thracians. It could be older in the Italian-Etruscan group, like going back to Baden-Vucedol also, but its a real connection to the Thracians and likely the Eastern Carpathian basin.

And his very high matching with Carpathain basin Neolithics and steppe groups makes it a near certainty that he is very old, likely coming from before the Iron Age. He is a fully typical Thracian in every respect, yDNA, autosomals, mtDNA does fit too. Yet he has a matching pattern which we haven't seen in any Thracian, not even those with high levels of recent steppe ancestry (like Mezocsat, Vekerzug, Thracian Hallstatt Kartal etc.) on that level.

He must be genealogically, chronologically closer to the Thracian ethnogeneiss, to the Thracian formation period (3500-2500 BC). This implies he is from the Bronze Age and he proves the Urnfield and Carpathian connection of E-V13 and the Thracians in general, but the North Thracians in particular. Even if he would be from a more Southern site, his profile points to his more Northern origin, because all his IBD goes that way.
The exact archaeologcial context would be great to know of course.

Up to this point individual I41598 won the price for being the most important sample for the Proto-Thracian/E-V13 debate by far. His genetics alone are a game changer.

Neolithic Refuge and Continuity in Transylvania

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