(NEW) GenePlaza K12 Ancient Calculator Results

Hauteville said:
It's also strange because in no one else other calculator i score African...not even North African, let alone East Africa. So strange...
Click to expand...

Could be the genes that are caught by the "Red Sea" component from Eurogenes. Makes sense since East Africa runs along the Red Sea.
 
kingjohn said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMA1JEd7U3s
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/0LuhzbMCTgWE6kzMB3n79w
p.s

and yes i think you are correct in eurogenes k13 north Italians score higher Baltic than other Italians
could be Lombard or the goth who brought this element to Italy
or at least increased it were they settled .
Click to expand...

Thanks for the links, Kingjohn. I had thought perhaps it was totally fake "Hollywood" history, but it seems there was a little nugget of truth in there. Obviously, from the prior links, some of these Sarmatians who fought for the Romans didn't return to the Ukraine, but were settled on Italian land in Emilia as well as elsewhere in the Empire.

As for the battle, I have ancestry, it seems, from all three groups...Romans, Celt-Ligurians, and now Sarmatians. I think if people could think of ancient history in this way it might lessen modern animosities. It has certainly broadened my own world view. :)
 
kingjohn said:
my father score 12% Scythian in Kurd calculator :)
but he score no yamnaya at all
i think it is indo-iranian connection in my father case .
the highest % of Scythian in Europe in Kurd calculator is in Finns close to 20%
and in anthrogenica some ukranians and Romanians score 11-13% Scythian could be Iranian tribes .
Click to expand...
Genetically speaking Scythians looked more like East Europeans than Iranians. They spoke Iranian language but had not much genetic resemblance to today's Iranians or Indians. Furthermore, genetically they look Yamnaya like plus some European Farmer and Siberian hunter gatherer. Don't try to keep these calculators honest. ;)
 
LeBrok said:
Genetically speaking Scythians looked more like East Europeans than Iranians. They spoke Iranian language but had not much genetic resemblance to today's Iranians or Indians. Furthermore, genetically they look Yamnaya like plus some European Farmer and Siberian hunter gatherer. Don't try to keep these calculators honest. ;)
Click to expand...

Kingjohn never said that Scythians were like modern Iranians. That's why he used the term Indo-Iranians. Nor are modern Eastern Europeans equivalent to East Scythians or the Karasuk.

"Abstract: During the 1st millennium before the Common Era (BCE), nomadic tribes associated with the Iron Age Scythian culture spread over the Eurasian Steppe, covering a territory of more than 3,500 km in breadth. To understand the demographic processes behind the spread of the Scythian culture, we analysed genomic data from eight individuals and a mitochondrial dataset of 96 individuals originating in eastern and western parts of the Eurasian Steppe. Genomic inference reveals that Scythians in the east and the west of the steppe zone can best be described as a mixture of Yamnaya-related ancestry and an East Asian component. Demographic modelling suggests independent origins for eastern and western groups with ongoing gene-flow between them, plausibly explaining the striking uniformity of their material culture. We also find evidence that significant gene-flow from east to west Eurasia must have occurred early during the Iron Age.

...

In the East, we find a balanced mixture of mitochondrial lineages found today predominantly in west Eurasians, including a significant proportion of prehistoric hunter-gatherer lineages, and lineages that are at high frequency in modern Central and East Asians already in the earliest Iron Age individuals dating to the ninth to seventh century BCE and an even earlier mtDNA sample from Bronze Age Mongolia [49]. Typical west Eurasian mtDNA lineages are also present in the Tarim Basin [16] and Kazakhstan [8] and were even predominant in the Krasnoyarsk area during the 2nd millennium BCE [31]. This pattern points to an admixture process between west and east Eurasian populations that began in earlier periods, certainly before the 1 st millennium BCE [13,50], a finding consistent with a recent study suggesting the carriers of the Yamnaya culture are genetically indistinguishable from the Afanasievo culture peoples of the Altai-Sayan region. This further implies that carriers of the Yamnaya culture migrated not only into Europe [26] but also eastward, carrying west Eurasian genes—and potentially also Indo-European languages—to this region [17]. All of these observations provide evidence that the prevalent genetic pattern does not simply follow an isolation-by-distance model but involves significant gene flow over large distances.

All Iron Age individuals investigated in this study show genomic evidence for Caucasus hunter-gatherer and Eastern European hunter-gatherer ancestry. This is consistent with the idea that the blend of EHG and Caucasian elements in carriers of the Yamnaya culture was formed on the European steppe and exported into Central Asia and Siberia [26]. All of our analyses support the hypothesis that the genetic composition of the Scythians can best be described as a mixture of Yamnaya-related ancestry and East Asian/north Siberian elements.

Concerning the legacy of the Iron Age nomads, we find that modern human populations with a close genetic relationship to the Scythian groups are predominantly located in close geographic proximity to the sampled burial sites, suggesting a degree of population continuity through historical times. Contemporary descendants of western Scythian groups are found among various groups in the Caucasus and Central Asia, while similarities to eastern Scythian are found to be more widespread, but almost exclusively among Turkic language speaking (formerly) nomadic groups, particularly from the Kipchak branch of Turkic languages (Supplementary Note 1). The genealogical link between eastern Scythians and Turkic language speakers requires further investigation, particularly as the expansion of Turkic languages was thought to be much more recent—that is, sixth century CE onwards—and to have occurred through an elite expansion process."

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14615

As far as calculators are concerned, this is, imo, the best so far of the calculators comparing modern people to ancient samples, certainly far superior to any of the calculators based on modern clusters. You're free to disagree, of course, as it appears you do.
 
Karasuk culture and its expansion. You can see why they carried some East Asian.

Chernykh2008Fig9.jpg
 
Angela said:
Kingjohn never said that Scythians were like modern Iranians. That's why he used the term Indo-Iranians. Nor are modern Eastern Europeans equivalent to East Scythians or the Karasuk.

"Abstract: During the 1st millennium before the Common Era (BCE), nomadic tribes associated with the Iron Age Scythian culture spread over the Eurasian Steppe, covering a territory of more than 3,500 km in breadth. To understand the demographic processes behind the spread of the Scythian culture, we analysed genomic data from eight individuals and a mitochondrial dataset of 96 individuals originating in eastern and western parts of the Eurasian Steppe. Genomic inference reveals that Scythians in the east and the west of the steppe zone can best be described as a mixture of Yamnaya-related ancestry and an East Asian component. Demographic modelling suggests independent origins for eastern and western groups with ongoing gene-flow between them, plausibly explaining the striking uniformity of their material culture. We also find evidence that significant gene-flow from east to west Eurasia must have occurred early during the Iron Age.

...

In the East, we find a balanced mixture of mitochondrial lineages found today predominantly in west Eurasians, including a significant proportion of prehistoric hunter-gatherer lineages, and lineages that are at high frequency in modern Central and East Asians already in the earliest Iron Age individuals dating to the ninth to seventh century BCE and an even earlier mtDNA sample from Bronze Age Mongolia [49]. Typical west Eurasian mtDNA lineages are also present in the Tarim Basin [16] and Kazakhstan [8] and were even predominant in the Krasnoyarsk area during the 2nd millennium BCE [31]. This pattern points to an admixture process between west and east Eurasian populations that began in earlier periods, certainly before the 1 st millennium BCE [13,50], a finding consistent with a recent study suggesting the carriers of the Yamnaya culture are genetically indistinguishable from the Afanasievo culture peoples of the Altai-Sayan region. This further implies that carriers of the Yamnaya culture migrated not only into Europe [26] but also eastward, carrying west Eurasian genes—and potentially also Indo-European languages—to this region [17]. All of these observations provide evidence that the prevalent genetic pattern does not simply follow an isolation-by-distance model but involves significant gene flow over large distances.

All Iron Age individuals investigated in this study show genomic evidence for Caucasus hunter-gatherer and Eastern European hunter-gatherer ancestry. This is consistent with the idea that the blend of EHG and Caucasian elements in carriers of the Yamnaya culture was formed on the European steppe and exported into Central Asia and Siberia [26]. All of our analyses support the hypothesis that the genetic composition of the Scythians can best be described as a mixture of Yamnaya-related ancestry and East Asian/north Siberian elements.

Concerning the legacy of the Iron Age nomads, we find that modern human populations with a close genetic relationship to the Scythian groups are predominantly located in close geographic proximity to the sampled burial sites, suggesting a degree of population continuity through historical times. Contemporary descendants of western Scythian groups are found among various groups in the Caucasus and Central Asia, while similarities to eastern Scythian are found to be more widespread, but almost exclusively among Turkic language speaking (formerly) nomadic groups, particularly from the Kipchak branch of Turkic languages (Supplementary Note 1). The genealogical link between eastern Scythians and Turkic language speakers requires further investigation, particularly as the expansion of Turkic languages was thought to be much more recent—that is, sixth century CE onwards—and to have occurred through an elite expansion process."

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14615

As far as calculators are concerned, this is, imo, the best so far of the calculators comparing modern people to ancient samples, certainly far superior to any of the calculators based on modern clusters. You're free to disagree, of course, as it appears you do.
Click to expand...
This is only mtDNA research. Autosomal part of Scythian is telling us that East asian portion was only about 2%, in Sarmatians even less. Unless we include Siberian as part of East Asian too. Then we have additional 6% more.

Kingjohn never said that Scythians were like modern Iranians. That's why he used the term Indo-Iranians. Nor are modern Eastern Europeans equivalent to East Scythians or the Karasuk.
Click to expand...
I mentioned it just to be sure that we all are on the same page.
 
LeBrok said:
This is only mtDNA research. Autosomal part of Scythian is telling us that East asian portion was only about 2%, in Sarmatians even less. Unless we include Siberian as part of East Asian too. Then we have additional 6% more.

I mentioned it just to be sure that we all are on the same page.
Click to expand...

They did autosomal analysis too, LeBrok:

"We generated genome-wide capture data on a target set of 1,233,553 SNPs26,27 for six individuals: two Early Sarmatians from the southern Ural region (PR9, PR3, group #3 in Fig. 2; fifth to second century BCE), two individuals from Berel’ in East Kazakhstan (Be9, Be11, #6) dating to the Pazyryk period (fourth to third century BCE), and two individuals found in kurgan Arzhan 2 (A10, A17, #5) assigned to the Aldy Bel culture in Tuva (seventh to sixth century BCE). For Be9 and two additional individuals from east Kazakhstan (Is2 and Ze6, #4) dating to the Zevakino-Chilikta phase (ninth to seventh century BCE), we generated low coverage (<0.3x) whole genome datasets by shotgun NGS (Table 1, Supplementary Tables 20 and 21)."
 
Angela said:
They did autosomal analysis too, LeBrok:

"We generated genome-wide capture data on a target set of 1,233,553 SNPs26,27 for six individuals: two Early Sarmatians from the southern Ural region (PR9, PR3, group #3 in Fig. 2; fifth to second century BCE), two individuals from Berel’ in East Kazakhstan (Be9, Be11, #6) dating to the Pazyryk period (fourth to third century BCE), and two individuals found in kurgan Arzhan 2 (A10, A17, #5) assigned to the Aldy Bel culture in Tuva (seventh to sixth century BCE). For Be9 and two additional individuals from east Kazakhstan (Is2 and Ze6, #4) dating to the Zevakino-Chilikta phase (ninth to seventh century BCE), we generated low coverage (<0.3x) whole genome datasets by shotgun NGS (Table 1, Supplementary Tables 20 and 21)."
Click to expand...

You can see the relationship to other ancient samples here:

Unterlander2017_Fig5.png
 
kingjohn said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMA1JEd7U3s
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/0LuhzbMCTgWE6kzMB3n79w
p.s
and yes i think you are correct in eurogenes k13 north Italians score higher Baltic than other Italians
could be Lombard or the goth who brought this element to Italy
or at least increased it were they settled .
Click to expand...
Lombards originate in scania sweden before settling into the german-polish areas next to the burgundians
then moving to east-austria
and finally italy
 
Regio X said:
Curiously, less Steppe and more WHG than my family, but this is somewhat coherent with our GedrosiaDNA Near East Neolithic K13 results (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32468-Post-your-Near-East-Neolithic-K13-Admixture). Here I also have more Iranian Neo Admixture compared to my parents.
Click to expand...

less steppe % can also mean that my line passed through the steppe areas far more back in time than others ................my "european" mark is set at 3410BC by the Yfull site.

and the only older negative SNP which I branch from, of which I am positive has only been found between modern Sofia Bulgaria and Azov Russia
 
Sile said:
Lombards originate in scania sweden before settling into the german-polish areas next to the burgundians
then moving to east-austria
and finally italy
Click to expand...

the remedello gedmatch kit in eurogenes k13 carry no baltic { if i am not wrong but i might be }
someone brought this elment to italy in the iron-age or maybe later by migration of germanic tribes like the vizogoth or lombards....
kind regards
adam
 
Remedello is a copper age culture, we have not a bronze age and iron age aDNA of Italy in this moment. The baltic admixture entered with IE cultures who settled the Italian peninsula as well as Sicily.
 
Hauteville said:
Remedello is a copper age culture, we have not a bronze age and iron age aDNA of Italy in this moment. The baltic admixture entered with IE cultures who settled the Italian peninsula as well as Sicily.
Click to expand...

I agree with that, but more would also have come in with the Goths and Lombards.
 
Aha said:
23andme is now using v5 new Global Screening Array chips that overlaps v4 and v3 only on 20% of the SNPs. Kurd's calculator was tailored for v4, v3 23andme, current FTDNA and Ancestry kits.
Your new test will be done using new v5 chip, thus the rest of the 80% SNP data will be imputed, rendering the result of Kurd's test very inaccurate. Living DNA has the same issue with GSA chips and unstable results on such tests.
I would suggest converting anything you have into the 23andme format, as there is much bigger overlap between the OmniExpress chips.
Click to expand...
Anyone know if they made an update to accommodate the new version of 23andme? I tried contacting the company, but they haven't gotten back to me since September 28th. I just sent them a follow up e-mail.
uIX9Kd3.png
 
My values with FTDNA raw data

ANCIENT FARMERS73.1%
  • WEST EUROPEAN FARMERS (4000-5000 years)31.6%

  • LEVANT (4000-8000 years)5.6%

  • NEOLITHIC-CHALCOLITHIC IRAN-CHG (5000-12000 years)9.4%
EAST EUROPEAN FARMERS (5000-8000 years)26.5%
STEPPE CULTURES25.6%
  • KARASUK-E SCYTHIAN (2000-3000 years)5.3%

  • ANDRONOVO-SRUBNAYA (3000-4000 years)10.1%
YAMNAYA-AFANASIEVO-POLTAVKA (4000-5000 years)10.2%
AFRICAN1.3%
  • EAST AFRICAN (modern)1.3%
WEST AFRICAN (modern)0.0%

  • WESTERN EUROPEAN & SCANDINAVIAN HUNTER GATHERERS (4000-5000 years)0.0%
  • EASTERN NON AFRICANS (modern)0.0%
  • SOUTHEAST EURASIAN0.0%

My values with 23 andme raw data

ANCIENT FARMERS70.4%
  • WEST EUROPEAN FARMERS (4000-5000 years)26.6%

  • LEVANT (4000-8000 years)5.2%

  • NEOLITHIC-CHALCOLITHIC IRAN-CHG (5000-12000 years)10.5%
EAST EUROPEAN FARMERS (5000-8000 years)28.0%
STEPPE CULTURES27.4%
  • KARASUK-E SCYTHIAN (2000-3000 years)4.3%

  • ANDRONOVO-SRUBNAYA (3000-4000 years)13.3%
YAMNAYA-AFANASIEVO-POLTAVKA (4000-5000 years)9.8%
AFRICAN2.2%
  • EAST AFRICAN (modern)2.2%
WEST AFRICAN (modern)0.0%

  • EASTERN NON AFRICANS (modern)0.0%
  • SOUTHEAST EURASIAN0.0%
  • WESTERN EUROPEAN & SCANDINAVIAN HUNTER GATHERERS (4000-5000 years)0.0%
 
Scolari said:
My values with FTDNA raw data
ANCIENT FARMERS73.1%
  • WEST EUROPEAN FARMERS (4000-5000 years)31.6%
  • LEVANT (4000-8000 years)5.6%
  • NEOLITHIC-CHALCOLITHIC IRAN-CHG (5000-12000 years)9.4%
EAST EUROPEAN FARMERS (5000-8000 years)26.5%
STEPPE CULTURES25.6%
  • KARASUK-E SCYTHIAN (2000-3000 years)5.3%
  • ANDRONOVO-SRUBNAYA (3000-4000 years)10.1%
YAMNAYA-AFANASIEVO-POLTAVKA (4000-5000 years)10.2%
AFRICAN1.3%
  • EAST AFRICAN (modern)1.3%
WEST AFRICAN (modern)0.0%
  • WESTERN EUROPEAN & SCANDINAVIAN HUNTER GATHERERS (4000-5000 years)0.0%
  • EASTERN NON AFRICANS (modern)0.0%
  • SOUTHEAST EURASIAN0.0%
My values with 23 andme raw data
ANCIENT FARMERS70.4%
  • WEST EUROPEAN FARMERS (4000-5000 years)26.6%
  • LEVANT (4000-8000 years)5.2%
  • NEOLITHIC-CHALCOLITHIC IRAN-CHG (5000-12000 years)10.5%
EAST EUROPEAN FARMERS (5000-8000 years)28.0%
STEPPE CULTURES27.4%
  • KARASUK-E SCYTHIAN (2000-3000 years)4.3%
  • ANDRONOVO-SRUBNAYA (3000-4000 years)13.3%
YAMNAYA-AFANASIEVO-POLTAVKA (4000-5000 years)9.8%
AFRICAN2.2%
  • EAST AFRICAN (modern)2.2%
WEST AFRICAN (modern)0.0%
  • EASTERN NON AFRICANS (modern)0.0%
  • SOUTHEAST EURASIAN0.0%
  • WESTERN EUROPEAN & SCANDINAVIAN HUNTER GATHERERS (4000-5000 years)0.0%
Click to expand...

Just to put your results in a clearer perspective:

FTDNA vs 23andme

Farmers
73.1/ 70.4
//
31.6 / 26.6
5.6 / 5.2
9.4 / 10.5
26.5 / 28.0

Steppe
26.5 / 27.4
//
5.3/ 4.3
10.1 / 13.3
10.2 / 9.8

Africans
//
1.3/ 2.2
0.0/ 0.0

I bolded the higher values. Looks like it could vary by as much as 5%, depending on the kind of raw data you use. As in the case with the Western European Farmers comparison. But the rest seem pretty close. I was actually contemplating getting AncestryDNA sometime down the line. It would be interesting to compare those results to 23andme.
 
Those definitely look like Balkan results to me.
 
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