New map of haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)

Megalophias said:
(All Y haplogroups *are* A, just as all mt haplogroups are L. I think people *not* saying this causes far more confusion than otherwise. But this is even more off-topic.)
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tSWv0nx.png

Yes all Y-haplogroups are descendants of A, but I think he was confused in thinking J2a (M410) and J2b (M102) are both "J2"; when J2 (M172) is it's own haplogroup they are descended from.

...I think he was confused, it's kind of hard to follow what he's saying TBH :confused2:

Edit:
Probably would have been better to ignore.
 
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yup

a question to genetists,

is J2 still a I hg?

I mean is still IJ in J2 and in I2?
or not?
 
Megalophias said:
OK, so you have been arguing for pages because even though everyone agrees about everything, people are confused by your wording in English? OK, so stop, we all agree, you have expressed yourself badly in another language, that is no crime.

(All Y haplogroups *are* A, just as all mt haplogroups are L. I think people *not* saying this causes far more confusion than otherwise. But this is even more off-topic.)
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Yes they should really learn some English :)
 
Lol this is still going on. I think Yaan is doing this on purpose like the YouTube ******.

Is J2 a haplogroup? What if it's a conspiracy theory and J2 is not the real father of J2a and J2b, but rather the adoptive one. I smell Illuminati over here.

Back on topic, a split J2a and J2b map would be great (although I think I've seen one). For instance Greece and Albania are very close genetically and one would simply assume that the J2 distribution is a continuity of the same branches, when in reality Greece is high on J2a and very low on J2b and the exact opposite for Albania.
 
Fustan said:
macaimo is hardly a serious geneticist when he can't even differentiate j2b1 and j2b2
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Fustan no need to insult Maciamo, in my opinion and I have spoke to many regarding Y dna including researchers on various papers, project admins and brilliant amateur posters, for me Maciamo is one of the most educated persons in the genetic field across all scopes. You can agree and disagree with his theories as everyone is entitled to their opinions. In terms of your statement in the updated J2 genetic info page he discusses the differences between the two.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml#J2b1
 
The problem is that he doesn't understand what Maciamo has written, or what anyone else has posted for that matter, which should have been clear to everyone long ago.
 
Azzurro said:
Fustan no need to insult Maciamo, in my opinion and I have spoke to many regarding Y dna including researchers on various papers, project admins and brilliant amateur posters, for me Maciamo is one of the most educated persons in the genetic field across all scopes. You can agree and disagree with his theories as everyone is entitled to their opinions. In terms of your statement in the updated J2 genetic info page he discusses the differences between the two.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml#J2b1
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you can take it as an insult, I really don't care, when maciamo has had the prievelege to have an expert on this haplogroup to help him out (Trojet) and he completely ignores it and does the same mistake over and over again

I'd get it if he was misinformed or something, but when he has the man you need to talk to regarding j2b, he ignores him, which I take as a total insult

and then he goes on to consider posts from garrick and the australian diaspora, who have been doing nothing but shitpost against albanians for literally years, truly pathetic

seems like the only thing that can help maciamo in this case if he tatoos this post on his body:
Trojet said:
J2 splits into J2a-M410 and J2b-M102 some 27,700 years ago: https://www.yfull.com/tree/J2/

While R1 splits into R1a and R1b some 22,800 years ago, see here: https://www.yfull.com/tree/R1/

So to the contrary of what Yaan claims. In actuality the split of J2 into J2a and J2b is older than the split of R1 into R1a and R1b. (Or perhaps he doesn't understand simple phylogeny, that R1 is the ancestor of R1a and R1b, just like J2 is the ancestor of J2a and J2b).
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Fustan said:
you can take it as an insult, I really don't care, when maciamo has had the prievelege to have an expert on this haplogroup to help him out (Trojet) and he completely ignores it and does the same mistake over and over again

I'd get it if he was misinformed or something, but when he has the man you need to talk to regarding j2b, he ignores him, which I take as a total insult

and then he goes on to consider posts from garrick and the australian diaspora, who have been doing nothing but shitpost against albanians for literally years, truly pathetic

seems like the only thing that can help maciamo in this case if he tatoos this post on his body:
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What Trojet says literally is the true truth.
 
Fatherland said:
What Trojet says literally is the true truth.
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from yfull
J-L283 Z8409 * L283 * Z622+61 SNPsformed 9900 ybp, TMRCA 6000 ybpinfo

90% of samples are from Sardinia, Tuscany and Iberia

is your sample in Yfull?
 
Sile said:
from yfull
J-L283 Z8409 * L283 * Z622+61 SNPsformed 9900 ybp, TMRCA 6000 ybpinfo

90% of samples are from Sardinia, Tuscany and Iberia

is your sample in Yfull?
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The thing is.. You are always wrong.

Sile is the most useless poster on this site. No offense, but it is the truth.

No substance, no credibility, nothing brought to the table..
 
Fatherland said:
The thing is.. You are always wrong.

Sile is the most useless poster on this site. No offense, but it is the truth.

No substance, no credibility, nothing brought to the table..
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Members don't get to insult other members personally that way. Cut it out.

Stick to disagreeing with content, understand?
 
Fustan said:
you can take it as an insult, I really don't care, when maciamo has had the prievelege to have an expert on this haplogroup to help him out (Trojet) and he completely ignores it and does the same mistake over and over again

I'd get it if he was misinformed or something, but when he has the man you need to talk to regarding j2b, he ignores him, which I take as a total insult

and then he goes on to consider posts from garrick and the australian diaspora, who have been doing nothing but shitpost against albanians for literally years, truly pathetic

seems like the only thing that can help maciamo in this case if he tatoos this post on his body:
Click to expand...

I didn't take it like an insult, I just disagree. Totally agree with Trojet he is also one of the most educated in Y genetics, I have spoke to him here and on Anthrogenica, I always look forward to his analysis. A truly brilliant man.

I also agree that the Anti-Albanian sentiments need to stop on all forums. I think nobody takes them serious in regards to their theories about Albanians, I may be wrong that some do.

For J2b-L283 you know the best thing is to listen to Trojet anyways.

I just want to add one thing apart of this, I find the issue with J2a and J2b is that less people focus on them rather than R1b, R1a and the I's. There is always less information about both J2a and J2b just look at Wikipedia how small the pages are versus R1b, R1a, etc...
 
Good lord this thread derailed fast.
 
@Fustan,

It's thanks to Maciamo that we have this site on which to post our agreements or disagreements with him or with anyone else, so long as we keep it civil.

It's like being invited to someone's home and then spitting on his floor.Were you raised in a stable or something?


If you can't show him some respect, get out, or, I'll take you out.

Capisce?
 
Azzurro said:
I didn't take it like an insult, I just disagree. Totally agree with Trojet he is also one of the most educated in Y genetics, I have spoke to him here and on Anthrogenica, I always look forward to his analysis. A truly brilliant man.

I also agree that the Anti-Albanian sentiments need to stop on all forums. I think nobody takes them serious in regards to their theories about Albanians, I may be wrong that some do.

For J2b-L283 you know the best thing is to listen to Trojet anyways.

I just want to add one thing apart of this, I find the issue with J2a and J2b is that less people focus on them rather than R1b, R1a and the I's. There is always less information about both J2a and J2b just look at Wikipedia how small the pages are versus R1b, R1a, etc...
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Thanks for the compliments mate :smile:
I also find your posts very informative and honest.

Although, I have to say that Fustan has a good point. Maciamo has had a history of suggesting that all "J2b" in the Balkans is as a result of the same Bronze Age I-E migration, as can be seen in this thread: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...-lineages-of-the-ancient-Illyrians-Mycenaeans when in fact only J2b2a-L283 was found in Bronze Age Croatia.

As I pointed out on a different forum and here, IMHO it would be illogical to assume all "J2b" lineages co-migrated since their split at ca. 15,900 ybp to the Western Balkans during the Bronze Age, especially when there is no phylogenetic or ancient DNA evidence, except for J2b2a-L283. However, after I posted this, I am glad that Maciamo has recently opened a dedicated section for J2b1-M205 on his J2 page and pointed out where it's been found in ancient DNA.

EDIT: This is nothing personal against Maciamo or his site. Simply suggestions, to reflect the latest research. I actually applaud his intitiative and efforts to keep everything as much up to date as possible, considering how fast this field is advancing.
 
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Angela said:
@Fustan,

It's thanks to Maciamo that we have this site on which to post our agreements or disagreements with him or with anyone else, so long as we keep it civil.

It's like being invited to someone's home and then spitting on his floor.Were you raised in a stable or something?


If you can't show him some respect, get out, or, I'll take you out.

Capisce?
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Not disagreeing with you on the merits of Maciamo at all, but we aren't really his home guests as much as his "clients" or the drive to keep this forum alive. And there's usually 10-20 people doing most of the work around here anyway, so he and you as a moderator should be interested to treat people with respect as being banned from a forum is not a big deal on anyone's life.

And why are you always using Italian to throw threats around with the misspelled "capisce", or "chiaro", etc.?

Isn't it against this forums rules to use other languages? Do you even speak Italian by the way? I'd suppose you'd write "capisci", or you're referring to the Americanized version pronounced like in Sicilian?
 
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