Offtopic : Was Hitler a Christian ?

About Adolf Hitlers family and roots: a few facts (easy to find in regular research) : His genealogy was done extensively and it exists online. I mean the "official tree which was also available to anyone during his time in power. Adolf Hitlers father was named "Alois Schicklgruber" till january 1877. "Alois" was first recorded as the child out of wedlock of Mrs Maria Anna Schickelgruber and his fathers name "Johann Georg Hiedler" was not entered yet in the records. On 6 january 1877 Alois Schicklgruber switched name to "Alois Hitler" when his (already deceased) father's name was finaly declared to the town civil records admininstration and the paternity confirmed by 3 eyewittnesses ). The word "Hiedler" was on that same day written down as "Hitler" by the clerc which is a not uncommun practise in those days. (Google up these names and you will know all in detail..). "Johann Georg Hiedler" had a married brother "Johann Nepomuk Hiedler" who swiftly took care of baby boy "Alois Schicklgruber" all along his childhood, raising him in his farm "like his own son", while his brother "Johan Georg" left the area to live with "Maria Anna Schicklgruber" happily elsewhere. It may be possible that "Johann Nepomuk" had fathered the boy "Alois" with "Maria Anna" but had to make up the story vis a vis of his wife that the boy was fathered by his brother with whom he had at one point shared "Anna Maria". In fact thanks to this "story involving his brother" he could take care of his own boy by letting his brother appear as the father and not offend his wife and other neighbours. His brother knowing the truth never recognized in writing the boy and was anyhow not interested by him but only by "Maria Anna". (Today the Y-chromosome of the Hitler nephews in the USA can be compared with those of other "Hiedler" side lines descendants in austria and the lineage can be checked quite easy. 1946 Hans Frank, former chief of the Nazi Justice Department and intimate of Adolf Hitler wrote a book in the Nurnberg Jail where he expected capital punishment. In the book "Im Angesicht des Galgens" he wrote that Alois Schicklgruber(alias Hitler's) mother "Maria Anna" had the boy Alois fathered by the son of a jewish resident of Graz named "Leopold Frankenberger". It must be known here that it is very easy to check in the Graz town records if such a person lived in that town, since all residents having houses and adresses in Graz must be recorded by the town police. I never read about anyhting confirming the existense of such a resident, neither that "Maria Anna Schicklgruber" had lived and worked there in any official document, neither. The Graz town records are open and easy to check! But sure is that 1946 Hans Frank wrote this story in his still available book. Maybe Frank, repenting from his own sins and converting to catholicism in jail, who fervently admitted that the nazi regime was a criminal gang, was just trying to be more anti-jew than ever, by creating an even more evil Adolf Hitler fathered (of cause) by a half jew. Considering the information available today, Hans Frank's actions reflect more a last hate-revenge of the "freshly reborn christian" Hans Frank against his fallen master Hitler and the ever evil jews together. You speculate about the possibility that Hitler suspecting with or without reason any "non-aryen" lineage in his family tree, or even jewish ancestors, would not have been persecuting the jews? I disagree. I think it is even somehow obvious that any doubts may even lead to more hate. Hans "Frank" is not a family name without ambiguity neither. Sometimes childhood experiences can create the foundations for further interest in anti-jew activities. I think that Reinhard Heydrich is such a person, too. He was for sure often "insulted" as Jude by youngsters in his early years and even if he had no jewish ancestors, the name and his looks as a young boy made him "special" and easy to tease. I think that Himmler with his "mongolian" style facial features had understood that with a Reinhard Heydrich he found the same kind of restless soul in need to "clean up" with dark suspicions and sufferings about himself by eliminating the jews and "clean the blood". Therefore Hitler, even if he may have well heard about "the jew Frankenberger" story, would just have felt more hate against the jews as did a lot of others arround him.
Reinhold Hanisch, who was one of Hitlers first art business associates 1909 in Vienna described in his 1939 published "memoirs" his first encounters with the young pennyless Adolf (Check out on google "Reinhold Hanisch" "I Was Hitler's Buddy"): "With his black beard, his faded blue long coat and the black melon hat, I first thought he may be a jew". It seems that during his time in Vienna Hitler had frequently personal contacts with jews, especialy art gallery owner and some residents in his Worker'sHostel. It was even a jewish Postcard dealer who alerted the street police and was a wittness for Hitler in a court case against the former friend Hanisch who was accused by Hitler to have betrayed him financialy and "stolen" some of his aquarels. Another story: Hitler as chief of state has sponsored the emigration of the jewish doctor who took care of Hitler's mother during her (long lasting and finaly lost) fight against cancer. Hitler commented " We all have our "special jew...".
 
Particularly I see Hitler as a Christian who it wanted not to be. He had to be a man who was really alone; although it was always surrounded with the people or Eva Braun over there giving jumping. Hitler was improvising and being created to yes same. He had to know to the perfection the virtues and shortcomings of the German people of that epoch to manage to inoculate their own metamorphosis in such a enormous quantity of minds. To want to imitate God, Debíó wanted to create a new world and for it he could not be a Christian, he should have detested the Christianity and any religion, got tired of the God who was going, of the God who was looking and remained with the God that we do all.

Son of the hate and the rancor wanted to do the world playing with bubbles of soap. These poems of Machado always remind me to Hitler.
 
Maciamo, can you make a case for that? It seems a little stretched to say WWII was brought about by religious hatred. According to this site Hitler was neither Christian nor Atheist.
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I agree with the site. He was irreligious but he believed in a higher power.
 
I think if NAZI Germany would have had DNA testing they would have found many Jewish DNA types in their ranks "Christian converts". To be a member of the SS one had to prove no Jewish blood back to 1700 . For the normal German I think they only went back 1 or 2 generations. Hitler was so worried about maybe having Jewish blood he had his fathers birth village used as a impact area for for the big guns
 
Maciamo said:
Btw, some genealogical research on Hitler's ancestor claimed that he could have had distant Jewish ancestry too (supreme irony :D ). Anyway Hitler was a wacko. He wanted to create a pure Germanic race of tall, blond and blue-eyed people, but he was short, brown-eyed and had dark hair... :blush: Don't try to find logic in Hitler's mind !
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The DNA findings is not reliable it is inconclusive and proves nothing - let's start with the 'African ancestry' bit. All members of Homo Sapiens Sapiens can trace their ancestry back to Africa, where the human species originated. Next: Mulders and Vermeeren suggest that, because Jews have more of the E1B1B1 gene, Hitler may have had Jewish ancestors. But Hitler's family was Austrian and it turns out that 9% of Austrians currently carry the E1B1B1 gene. We can safely presume the gene was also common in 19th Century Austria among non-Jewish citizens.

The DNA found was also taken from a napkin, that is hardly very credible, the DNA testing on his grand nephew is not credible neither as the person could have got his results (according to them) from the non-Hitler side as well.

Anyhow, back to the main urban legend myth that Hitler had Jewish ancestors - this has been disproved many moons ago.

The third possibility is that Adolf Hitler's grandfather was Jewish. Rumours to that effect circulated in Munich cafes in the early 1920s, and were fostered by sensationalist journalism of the foreign press during the 1930s. It was suggested that the name `Huttler' was Jewish, `revealed' that he could be traced to a Jewish family called Hitler in Bucharest, and even claimed that his father had been sired by Baron Rothschild, in whose house in Vienna his grandmother had allegedly spent some time as a servant. But the most serious speculation about Hitler's supposed Jewish background has occurred since the Second World War, and is directly traceable to the memoirs of the leading Nazi lawyer and Governor General of Poland, Hans Frank, dictated in his Nuremberg cell while awaiting the hangman.

Frank claimed that he had been called in by Hitler towards the end of 1930 and shown a letter from his nephew William Patrick Hitler (the son of his half-brother Alois, who had been briefly married to an Irish woman) threatening, in connection with the press stories circulating about Hitler's background, to expose the fact that Hitler had Jewish blood flowing in his veins. Allegedly commissioned by Hitler to look into his family history, Frank reportedly discovered that Maria Anna Schicklgruber had given birth to her child while serving as a cook in the home of a Jewish family called Frankenberger in Graz. Not only that: Frankenberger senior had reputedly paid regular instalments to support the child on behalf of his son, around nineteen years old at the birth, until the child's fourteenth birthday. Letters were allegedly exchanged for years between Maria Anna Schicklgruber and the Frankenbergers. According to Frank, Hitler declared that he knew, from what his father and grandmother had said, that his grandfather was not the Jew from Graz, but because his grandmother and her subsequent husband were so poor they had conned the Jew into believing he was the father and into paying for the boy's support.

Frank's story gained wide circulation in the 1950s. But it simply does not stand up. There was no Jewish family called Frankenberger in Graz during the 1830s. In fact, there were no Jews at all in the whole of Styria at the time, since Jews were not permitted in that part of Austria until the 1860s. A family named Frankenreiter did live there, but was not Jewish. There is no evidence that Maria Anna was ever in Graz, let alone was employed by the butcher Leopold Frankenreiter. No correspondence between Maria Anna and a family called Frankenberg or Frankenreiter has ever turned up. The son of Leopold Frankenreiter and alleged father of the baby (according to Frank's story and accepting that he had merely confused names) for whom Frankenreiter was seemingly prepared to pay child support for thirteen years was ten years old at the time of Alois's birth. The Frankenreiter family had moreover hit upon such hard times that payment of any support to Maria Anna Schicklgruber would have been inconceivable. Equally lacking in credibility is Frank's comment that Hitler had learnt from his grandmother that there was no truth in the Graz story: his grandmother had been dead for over forty years at the time of Hitler's birth. And whether in fact Hitler received a blackmail letter from his nephew in 1930 is also doubtful. If such was the case, then Patrick -- who repeatedly made a nuisance of himself by scrounging from his famous uncle -- was lucky to survive the next few years which he spent for the most part in Germany, and to be able to leave the country for good in December 1938. His `revelations', when they came in a Paris journal in August 1939, contained nothing about the Graz story. Nor did a number of different Gestapo inquiries into Hitler's family background in the 1930s and 1940s contain any reference to the alleged Graz background. Indeed they discovered no new skeletons in the cupboard. Hans Frank's memoirs, dictated at a time when he was waiting for the hangman and plainly undergoing a psychological crisis, are full of inaccuracies and have to be used with caution. With regard to the story of Hitler's alleged Jewish grandfather, they are valueless. Hitler's grandfather, whoever he was, was not a Jew from Graz.

The only serious contenders for the paternity of Hitler's father remain, therefore, Johann Georg Hiedler and Johann Nepomuk Hiedler (or Huttler). The official version always declared Johann Georg to be Adolf's grandfather.

So there you have it, Hitler's family were all Austrian Germans and like many living on the Austro-German border were German nationalists hence why Hitler considered himself a German - which he was an ethnic German - and believed in a 'Greater Germany', since remember Bismarck excluded Austria from Germany nearly two decades before Hitler's birth. :good_job:

Hitler also had blue eyes NOT brown eyes.

"Hitler was a slight, pale man with brown hair parted to one side. He had steel-blue eyes...he had the look of a fanatic....he held the audience, and me with them, under a hypnotic spell by the sheer force of his conviction."

He wasn't short, he was 5'9 which was average for someone born in 1889, hey some people aren't even that height in today's society, 100+ years on and its still only 'average', you ain't confusing him with the Georgian by birth, Stalin who was only 5'5, are you?

Hitler was not that dark haired it just got darker as he got older.

Hitler was a Catholic, as were all his family - he even had ideas of being a priest before he wanted to be an artist.
 
How can you please think Hitler was a Catholic? Hitler probably served the God of the world which is Satan. The problem is that left fans in all parts of the world, even from the countries that eventually ended with Hitler.

At any given time anyone can play to believe a God, but it's so easy to realize how fragile we are as humans and our place in the outer Galaxy, which at that Hitler and his philosophy become trifles, before the true God.
 
Hark, I see the No True Scotsman being played here. Pray tell us all Carlos, who is the one true god? Maybe it is the one you worship, not that I see any bias towards your own religion at all /sarcasm off
First establish the existance of any god, then establish that the god that you have is your god. Good luck with that because every religion in the world, including yours, has failed at it everytime.

Tough, Hitler was a catholic whether you like it or not.
 
Yes, Hitler was a Catholic. There have been plenty of horrible Christians in history of all stripes, and Hitler was amongst them.

However, you can rejoice that Communism, which is far worse than Nazism and Fascism in general in murdering 100 million individuals, is an unmitigated atheist philosophy.
 
JFWR said:
Yes, Hitler was a Catholic. There have been plenty of horrible Christians in history of all stripes, and Hitler was amongst them.

However, you can rejoice that Communism, which is far worse than Nazism and Fascism in general in murdering 100 million individuals, is an unmitigated atheist philosophy.
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Hitler was a Meir descendant and the anti-christ.
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As many have said, Hitler was indeed a Catholic, and many quotes show that he believed it into his "Fuhrerhood". However, while there are many quotes that indicate his belief in a god, there are some that indicate a hatred of Christianity and god. Nevertheless, he used a god and the bible to inspire his countrymen and Nazi army. Whether he was a "true believer" or not, it's safe to say that there were Nazi soldiers, that were god-fearing Christians, killing innocent people.

I'll search for these quotes and post them later, if I can remember...

King Niall said:
Hitler was a Meir descendant and the anti-christ.
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What does this even mean?
 
Oh, and Maciamo's opening statement must be refuted:

It is ludicrous to classify WWII as a "religious" war. Hitler's anti-Jewish beliefs had nothing to do with religion (as one can read for youself in Mein Kampf) but his belief that they represented an alien, subversive, defeatist, and communist element in Germany.

He did not hate the Jews because they were Christ killers like historical Spanish anti-Jewish practices, but simply for political and racial reasons.
 
King Niall said:
Hitler was a Meir descendant and the anti-christ.
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There is no proof that Hitler was a descendant of rabbi Meir.

He was also, to be precise, the second anti-Christ if you are referencing Nostradamus. Otherwise, he wasn't the anti-Christ in the Biblical sense, and it would be quite odd if the anti-Christ wouldn't be Stalin or Mao, who together murdered more people than Hitler ever dreamed of.
 
Tunisia was Roman province where the emperor was from and also where E1b1 M35 was from. Tunisia was always know as a Roman colony.
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King Niall said:
Tunisia was Roman province where the emperor was from and also where E1b1 M35 was from. Tunisia was always know as a Roman colony.
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So?

Tunisia isn't Jerusalem. It's over a thousand miles West.

If anything, if he was a native of the area, he'd likely be Carthaginian. Also: He was born in Antium, near Rome, not Tunis. I don't know where you're getting your information from. He was also pure on Roman.

Hitler was a German Austrian Catholic. He had no Jewish blood.
 
According to Hitler's personal secretary who died only recently, after Hitler survived an assassination attempt on his life in Munich he became convinced that God spared him to fulfil his duty. Hitler even bragged about it to Mussolini.

Also, most men who put the jews in gas chambers were christians.

The Christians can get Hitler, the atheists can have Stalin.

Whether they believed in God or not is irrelevant. Their religions were responsible for their actions. Hitler's religion was National Socialism and Stalin's religion was Communism.
 
How could someone disprove beliefs which are neither theist nor atheist/agnostic. Such as: Pantheism, Deism, Panentheism, etc. Their "evidence" doesn't stem from concrete and physical evidence (such as miracles or holy books).

It also seems like Hitler would have followed something akin to English Deism.
 
Templar said:
How could someone disprove beliefs which are neither theist nor atheist/agnostic. Such as: Pantheism, Deism, Panentheism, etc. Their "evidence" doesn't stem from concrete and physical evidence (such as miracles or holy books).
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All the philosophical positions you spoke about are subdivisions of theism and have established arguments for them dating to antiquity. This is not a matter of miracles and holy books exclusively, and in fact, those are the weakest of all arguments, excepting for a miracle one personally witnesses.

It also seems like Hitler would have followed something akin to English Deism.
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No, he was a pretty standard Christian when he speaks about matters pertaining to Christianity.
 
Hitler was born and bred into a traditionally Roman Catholic society, but he himself never identified with this tradition once he had matured. The confusion about the Nazis being 'Christians' largely results from the well-publicized fact of their association(purely for political ends) with the Roman Catholic church, photos of archbishops shaking hands with nazis, etc.
It's obvious to anyone who has studied nazi philosophy that Christianity was not compatible with the main thought current of the movement, Himmler, Rosenberg, and others who exemplified the movement's philosophical orientation were very much obsessed with the old Nordic pagan way of thinking, National Socialism was fundamentally a neo-pagan movement.
 
Templar:

The main conclusions of modern physics, especially quantum mechanics, seem to very strongly suggest that everything is 'alive' in a sense, absolutely everything at the fundamental level seems to have a sort of consciousness, I think one could make an argument that this is evidence for pantheistic beliefs. At the very least it would constitute much more 'concrete' evidence than 'holy books', which were written by basically ignorant men in a pre-rational time.
 
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