Old Europe

[Maleth]

to the thing about women priests, in the past there was a role for women in the church as nuns, theologians of a sort, or mystics, like Teresa of Avila or Catherine of Siena, but there was absolutely no role for women in Protestantism.

Do not forget that queen Elizabeth I was head of the break away Church soon after her daddy, so the road map would have been molded for things to come.

 

[Angela]

Do not forget that queen Elizabeth I was head of the break away Church soon after her daddy, so the road map would have been molded for things to come.

Maleth, I think that's a little different. From everything I know of Elizabeth she was the ultimate pragmatist and political animal. Religiously, all she did was try to maintain the status quo. Her father's decision to break with Rome had everything to do with getting a divorce so he could marry Anne Boleyn, who had the sense to hold out for marriage for a very long time, and when she gave in, fortunately, for her, became pregnant, which was of utmost importance to that swine Henry, as he had only one legitimate child, a girl, and only one illegitimate one, for that matter. The man was a walking Freudian cartoon. He had no doctrinal quarrels with the Roman church, and did his utmost to keep Calvinism out of England.

Whew! I guess you know what I think of Henry VIII!

I still maintain there was no real role in Protestant sects for women; no room for their input theologically, in particular, although there were a few small Anglican orders for nuns. There was no room in general for the mystical for either men or women.

The only place where a maternal, merciful manifestation of the sacred existed and continues to exist in Europe is in the Marian devotions of Catholic and Orthodox religions.

Salve Regina is a prayer said traditionally at the end of the Rosary, a devotion which itself, in its chant like properties, (like Gregorian chants) is meant to induce a contemplative and perhaps mystical, (with a small "m") state of mind. It is also sung, often at May processions in honor of Mary. I used to be extremely partial to it, and not just because, when I was a girl, I was habitually chosen to represent Mary in those processions.

There's nothing like it in any other European religious sect.

Compare this image

of Isis and Horus to the image of the Madonna and Child.

Ed. In the interest of intellectual honesty, it just occurred to me that there were some women figures of importance in some minority American Protestant sects...Mother Ann Lee of the Shakers, Ellen White of the Seventh Day Adventists, and some prominent Quaker women. Still not quite the same, however.

 

[Angela]

To return to actual "Old Europe" archaeology, I had run across this video about the Cucuteni culture a while ago, and saved the link. It's by Romanian archaeologists and concerns a strange practice where the people supposedly burned their dwellings down either after a specific time or when the inhabitants died, perhaps, and then built new ones on top of the old ones. I don't remember reading about this before, but it's been a while since I read Anthony on this culture, for example. I think my recollection was that the burned dwellings were tied to the fall of the culture because of invasion?

If the Romanian scientists are correct, it's one of those cases where a cultural, perhaps quasi-religious rite might have led to the demise of their culture.

 

[Maleth]

There's nothing like it in any other European religious sect.

....and here is some more proof if any is needed. Lady of Sorrows procession draws more crowds than the full pageantry of Good Friday that takes place the week after. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv_Aa8QWqe8

If the Romanian scientists are correct, it's one of those cases where a cultural, perhaps quasi-religious rite might have led to the demise of their culture.

very interesting video and theory thanks.

 

[LeBrok]

If the Romanian scientists are correct, it's one of those cases where a cultural, perhaps quasi-religious rite might have led to the demise of their culture.

It is too much of dramatization on their part. Cucuteni culture existed for almost 2,000 years, with long tradition of burning houses. Why this tradition became distracted only at the end of their culture, and not after first 1,000 years?
They estimated that for 1,200 years they used 115 million trees, which is 25% of today's Romanian forest. It is a big number but it was cut and used for 1,200 years, giving about 100,000 trees a year. I'm sure this vast forest can regrow faster than that. Deforestation wasn't a problem then.

Other question would be for whose funeral the house was burned every 10-20 years? Not for children funerals, perhaps father's? However Wikipedia hints about whole village destruction every 60-80 years.
Whatever it was, weird custom anyway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucuteni-Trypillian_culture

 

[Maleth]

It is too much of dramatization on their part. Cucuteni culture existed for almost 2,000 years, with long tradition of burning houses.

Watching the documentary again I agree. I find it difficult to believe that such practice can possibly bring down a whole culture. I believe that there would be many other reasons (and more than one) that could potentially bring a culture (way of life) to a halt.