Pigmentation of European Hunter Gatherers

[Ukko]

Then marry a like minded women and get about 20 kids. Tell your friend to do the same.

Is that suppose to be some solution to mass immigration and population replacement?
We plan on having 2-3 children that we can afford to raise as we want.

 

[Moi-même]

It is not "suppose to be" a solution to population replacement, it IS a solution to population replacement.

I'm a French Canadian, you see, the only reason there are still French Canadians to this day is my ancestor got as many children as they could. They called it "la revanche des berceaux", the revenge of the cradles, and for 200 years, there was social pressure to marry young and have as many descendants as possible. Hence, French Canadians's number grow by 80 folds between 1750 and 1950. Although 20 kids was a bit of an overkill, but there was a women who had this much in the village, among my grand-parents generation (she had many twins).

Anyway, with just 2-3 children you can't even be serious about preserving Finnish genes. Get at least 4 so you double your number for the next generation. 6 to 10 would be better to make sure your line doesn't disappear after a few generations.

 

[Ukko]

It is not "suppose to be" a solution to population replacement, it IS a solution to population replacement.

I'm a French Canadian, you see, the only reason there are still French Canadians to this day is my ancestor got as many children as they could. They called it "la revanche des berceaux", the revenge of the cradles, and for 200 years, there was social pressure to marry young and have as many descendants as possible. Hence, French Canadians's number grow by 80 folds between 1750 and 1950. Although 20 kids was a bit of an overkill, but there was a women who had this much in the village, among my grand-parents generation (she had many twins).

Anyway, with just 2-3 children you can't even be serious about preserving Finnish genes. Get at least 4 so you double your number for the next generation. 6 to 10 would be better to make sure your line doesn't disappear after a few generations.

2-3 is enough as most Finns are related, assuming there is no mass migration in to the country.
We have no point in competing with third world countries in births, there are too many people in those countries anyways, the reason they are emigrating.
You cant raise 20 children properly in the modern world and provide well for them.

In principal I dont have anything against having more children, I would be open to ideas just as dropping the women out of the work force if we get production up with automation and robotics, giving more support and incentives for large families etc.
Polygamy is a another option but that would start a direct breeding competition with the muslims.

USA, Canada, Australia etc are former colonies and all immigrant countries, flooding Europe with immigrants is the same as you started filling the Indian reservations also with new immigrants.

 

[Angela]

You are projecting, something.

I want to preserve Finnish genes, the Siberian ones also, is that a crime?

We're not in total disagreement. I certainly don't want Italians to disappear or see our culture irremediably changed. If that makes me a conservative or atavistic, so be it.

I also think that every nation state has the right to maintain its borders and make decisions about immigration.

However, neither do I think that there is something holy and sacred about white skin per se which makes its bearers superior to everybody else. Although they are fellow Europeans, and certainly white, I don't want tens of millions of Germans and Slavs and Finns suddenly descending on us either. We've had enough invasions from over the Alps.

I'm also trying to interject some historical perspective.

To Moi-Meme's excellent point, Italians are barely reproducing themselves, and thus we're the "oldest" population in Europe. Our people are also now so educated that they don't want to pick the crops or clean the streets or act as nannies and housekeepers. Who is going to pay the taxes to support this aging population? What is the solution?

It's more complicated in some places than you credit.

 

[davef]

I seriously don't understand the appeal of having white skin to begin with

 

[Nik]

MI don't think it will ever come at that point where the immigrants outnumber the locals, even for smaller countries like Finland. Not until many generations later at least, when we wont be even alive to experience such a "tragedy".

And again don't get me wrong as I share the same views and fears of many of u here, just saying that keeping people away isn't the solution. If ur country's women want to marry immigrants then they will no matter what. So men, find the problems within urselves and become pioneers of sexual selection lol

 

[Fire Haired14]

I seriously don't understand the appeal of having white skin to begin with

Is there any record of Europeans feeling superior for having white skin before the age of exploration/colonism(1500s)? Obviously that's why. People will call you racist for saying this; Europe has dominated the world since the 1500s and yes they still do. The idea of whites countries being more powerful and whites being racist is an assumed idea in so much of the world today for good reason. So much so that's hard for Americans to imagine a past white society that wasn't racist or imperialistic or powerful, even though before the 1500s there was no white racism and nothing especially noticeable about most Europeans(exclu. Romans and others).

 

[DuPidh]

I seriously don't understand the appeal of having white skin to begin with

Being white is not about the skin! You have a lot of asians with whiter skin than some whites and they still are considered yellow. Or Hispanics of mestizo extraction. Caucasian or white is the anthropology of human body with all shades of skin, hair and eye color. A lot of whites do not have white skin. It very from light dark,to olive, to pale. Let say a bleach is invented that turns the skin of the blacks to white and their hair blond. No way that dude is white. The anthropology of the body and the aesthetic is obvious. We may be born with the notion of the aesthetics and that is a source where racism starts.

 

[Dinarid]

Who gives less of a f*** where the "cradle of White People" (LOL) was? What is your motivation for trying to prove this was Eastern Europe?

 

[Tomenable]

Not until many generations later at least, when we wont be even alive to experience such a "tragedy".

This kind of "après nous, le déluge" attitude makes me sick.

Italians are barely reproducing themselves, and thus we're the "oldest" population in Europe. Our people are also now so educated that they don't want to pick the crops or clean the streets or act as nannies and housekeepers. Who is going to pay the taxes to support this aging population? What is the solution?

If you think that Muslims or Black Africans are going to clean your streets and toilets, pick your crops, work physically for low salaries and pay the taxes to ensure that you can get your pensions, that they will clean elderly Italian butts and change your diapers - then you must be delusional. But it shows what the plan is - first invite millions of Third World immigrants from your former colonies, then expect them to be obedient servants and working classes at the bottom of your society, who will take care of their former colonial masters once they get too old or too lazy to do it on their own.

Most of them hate you, they hate Europe, they resent "Whiteys", and they come here only to collect welfare, to establish Sharia Law, to take control of the government, to blame racism for their own failures and shortages. They will establish "European Black Lives Matter", and so on. They are not coming to be obedient servants of filthy rich Italian grannies and grandpas. They will chop off your heads rather than changing your diapers.

They will spend their time rioting, organizing street protests against "White privilege", etc. - surely not working for Italian retirements.

What is the solution?

The solution is that people will live only as long as they can support themselves. Just like in the past, before retirements got invented.

The problem is not declining population (Europe is overpopulated after all), but the problem is aging population. So if the generation of our grandparents and parents was reluctant to have children, then my generation will not pay for their retirements and healthcare. Who cares if they live 90 or 70 years - they had it coming, by not reproducing they made the system unsustainable, and they will bear the consequences of their negligence.

New generations are growing up, and they increasingly despise "Flower Children Generations", what they did to our civilization.

Back in the old days if you were too old and did not have enough children and grandchildren to take care of you, you just died.

So people wanted to have families, wanted to have children, because they were afraid of being left on their own when old. Now "the state" is taking care of old people, so they no longer have this fear. And maybe it is bad, because this is one of reasons why Europe has so low fertility.

Destroy socialism, destroy retirements - and the majority of people will want to have at least 2 children per couple again.

We do not even need to destroy anything - just wait until it all collapses on its own, because it is unsustainable anyway. And Third World immigrants are not working, are not paying taxes - they are collecting welfare, so they are only facilitating the collapse of this system.

I don't want tens of millions of Germans and Slavs and Finns suddenly descending on us either. We've had enough invasions from over the Alps.

Those were not even invasions. You just opened your borders to Germanic refugees and allowed them to settle, because you wanted them to serve you and to die for the glory of Rome as soldiers in your army. Romans became too morally degenerated and too lazy to do those things on their own. You expected Germanic immigrants to remain your obedient subjects, but they rebelled against "oppression", sacked Rome, and took power.

This is what happened, they destroyed your decaying empire from within, as its citizens (descendants of immigrants):

 

[Aaron1981]

I can pretty much guarantee I am the whitest person in this thread, possibly one of the whitest amongst all DNA forums. "Whiteness" originated in Britannia of course.
It should be measured by skin pigment, not hair colour. Proportionately, Britain has the most de-pigmented (pinkest) people in the world today, all skin diseases aside, and assuming you strictly look at the indigenous, not immigrants in London.

 

[Vallicanus]

No, Ireland, not Britain, has the whitest people in the world.

 

[Angela]

For your information, Tomenable, there are indeed "new" immigrants who do those jobs in Italy, as still do people from eastern Europe, although the latter was much more common previously. Do you know how many Polish and Russian badantes and carers of the elderly I've met or at least known? Lots. My relatives hired a woman from the Ukraine to care for my great-uncle while they were at work and school. Even here in America, the live in housekeeper and babysitter for the Jewish family who lived next door for a time was a lovely woman from Poland trying to make money for her nephew's education. We still exchange Christmas cards. Do you honestly not know these things or you just erase them from your mind?

Fifty years ago, Italian immigrants did the same in Switzerland. People do what they must to survive. So long as the work is honest there's no disgrace in it. That's another lesson courtesy of my father. Prostitution, of which we've seen a lot in Italy, and coming from the eastern block previously, is another matter, although even there I don't want to cast any stones. Who knows what I would have done if my family were being threatened if I didn't cooperate? Often, the women in these situations are victims.

Prostitution rings from eastern Europe:
https://www.academia.edu/210605/Human_Trafficking_Russia_As_The_Country_Of_Origin

A wonderful and much appreciated Italian film about the subject, called "La Sconosciuta"-The Unknown Woman:

The trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju7gDAGSCbA

You really should try to get a copy of the film. It would open your eyes.

That is now less common, and the prostitutes lining the roads in certain areas are often from Africa.

It's all about the economy, Tomenable, not "racial" inferiority.

@Aaron,
If anyone was in doubt as to what kind of person you are, you have now removed all doubt. Next.

 

[bicicleur 2]

Indeed, Rome was merely punished for its own arrogance, despise and broken promises towards the barbarians.

The barbarians had the choice to be crushed and killed by the Huns or by the Romans.
They overcame by beating the weakest of both parties.
For them there was no other option.

 

[epoch]

Angela, when it comes to lightening mutations in Ancient North Eurasians:



Why are you so sure about this, given that Genetiker found lightening mutations in Afontova Gora 2 sample?:

"Pigmentation SNP genotypes for Mal’ta 1 and Afontova Gora 2":

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/201...np-genotypes-for-malta-1-and-afontova-gora-2/

Is Genetiker lying? He may be nuts, a weird guy, but nobody has ever proven that he lies about DNA results:

Afontova Gora 2 is thought to be roughly 30% contaminated. If it weren't for the fact it is one third of our entire ANE sample base we'd thrown the sample out.

 

[Ukko]

Those were not even invasions. You just opened your borders to Germanic refugees and allowed them to settle, because you wanted them to serve you and to die for the glory of Rome as soldiers in your army. Romans became too morally degenerated and too lazy to do those things on their own. You expected Germanic immigrants to remain your obedient subjects, but they rebelled against "oppression", sacked Rome, and took power.

This is what happened, they destroyed your decaying empire from within, as its citizens (descendants of immigrants):

This is what happened and funny that most dont understand it is happening again.

Btw, any plans on returning to a concript army in Poland? It works fine in Finland and Estonia, the troops get good grades on NATO tests, naturally there is a professional cadre of officers and personnel like pilots or special forces that are needed as full time.

 

[Angela]

I find if amusing that descendents of people who destroyed advanced civilizations are now complaining about different people destroying the new incarnations of the same civilization.

Have you people no sense of historical perspective? No sense of irony?

 

[Tomenable]

And I find ironic that descendants of people who got their civilizations destroyed once again want to get their civilizations destroyed.

It's like not learning from your own mistakes at all. By contrast "northern barbarians" prefer to learn even from mistakes of others.

 

[Angela]

And I find ironic that descendants of people who got their civilizations destroyed once again want to get their civilizations destroyed.

It's like not learning from your own mistakes at all. By contrast "northern barbarians" prefer to learn even from mistakes of others.

Just to keep the record straight, for the umpteenth time, I'm not in favor of unrestricted immigration, particularly of unskilled people from areas of the world that don't share our values.

It is indeed extremely ironic, however, and not very attractive, that a member of a group which itself migrated to western Europe, and Italy for that matter, to do housework, and child and elder care, and construction and street cleaning, and less reputable things, because times were bad, suddenly finds it all so demeaning, one, and two, something that has to be totally opposed.

Oh, I forgot, your "incredible whiteness of being" makes it ok.

 

[Tomenable]

a member of a group which itself migrated to western Europe

I'm not alone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italians_in_Germany

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_immigration_to_Switzerland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italians_in_the_United_Kingdom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Scots