Tomenable
Elite member
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- Poland
- Ethnic group
- Polish
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"Above Dacia are the Peucini..." - wrote Ptolemy.
Where is Dacia? We know where.
Now Tacitus, Germania, 46 - wrote that the Venedae inhabited all forests, etc. between the Peucini and the Fenni.
Who are the Fenni? The Fenni are Finnic-speakers, such as Estonians and Livonians (the latter are nowadays almost extinct).
So the Venedae extended between Livonians-Estonians (or other related tribes) in the north, and almost Dacia in the south.
This confirms the idea that they lived from the Baltic Sea almost to the Carpathians. Of course they were intermingled with others.
Not sure why we have an idea that ancient ethnic composition within space consisted of continuous and very compact mono-ethnic areas. IMO it was more similar to 19th century Balkan or modern Middle Eastern "ethnic Flickenteppich", with various ethnic groups / tribes living intermingled with each other.
Original Ptolemy's map of European Sarmatia was not preserved. All such maps are either modern or Medieval interpretations.
As for Jordanes - for whatever reason, he is calling Slavic people (or one branch of them - depending how you interpret his account) Venedi.
Later Germans commonly applied the name Wends to their Slavic neighbours, so did the Danes. And Slovenes were called Winds until the 20th century.
I don't know if Slavic peoples (including Slovenes) used those names when describing themselves, but others did apply those names to them.
It might be a bit like with Welsh people. Welsh people called themselves Brythons. Welsh is a name applied to them by Anglo-Saxon neighbours.
English "Vlach" and "Welsh" are similar names both originating from the same Germanic word meaning "foreigners", even though one of these names describes Celtic-speakers while the other one Romanian-speakers. So it is possible that some of names of distant tribes and peoples from Roman and Greek sources were actually such generic terms which covered peoples belonging to more than one ethno-linguistic groups.
Where is Dacia? We know where.
Now Tacitus, Germania, 46 - wrote that the Venedae inhabited all forests, etc. between the Peucini and the Fenni.
Who are the Fenni? The Fenni are Finnic-speakers, such as Estonians and Livonians (the latter are nowadays almost extinct).
So the Venedae extended between Livonians-Estonians (or other related tribes) in the north, and almost Dacia in the south.
This confirms the idea that they lived from the Baltic Sea almost to the Carpathians. Of course they were intermingled with others.
Not sure why we have an idea that ancient ethnic composition within space consisted of continuous and very compact mono-ethnic areas. IMO it was more similar to 19th century Balkan or modern Middle Eastern "ethnic Flickenteppich", with various ethnic groups / tribes living intermingled with each other.
look at my link on post # 136...now look at map of ptolemy on page 126...
Original Ptolemy's map of European Sarmatia was not preserved. All such maps are either modern or Medieval interpretations.
As for Jordanes - for whatever reason, he is calling Slavic people (or one branch of them - depending how you interpret his account) Venedi.
Later Germans commonly applied the name Wends to their Slavic neighbours, so did the Danes. And Slovenes were called Winds until the 20th century.
I don't know if Slavic peoples (including Slovenes) used those names when describing themselves, but others did apply those names to them.
It might be a bit like with Welsh people. Welsh people called themselves Brythons. Welsh is a name applied to them by Anglo-Saxon neighbours.
English "Vlach" and "Welsh" are similar names both originating from the same Germanic word meaning "foreigners", even though one of these names describes Celtic-speakers while the other one Romanian-speakers. So it is possible that some of names of distant tribes and peoples from Roman and Greek sources were actually such generic terms which covered peoples belonging to more than one ethno-linguistic groups.