Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

T1a2-CTS9882

from Karen...........So far this is the most distant direct paternal ancestor, that I can verify. Anders Elofsson, born May 30th, 1740. Bortan, Varmland, Sweden.

Died May 31st, 1783 Gunnerskog, Varmland, Sweden.
This match absolutly close to one of our T members:
IN45906 Olof Assgärdsson, b. abt. 1555 in Treskog, Gunnarskog, Värmland
 
torzio said:
https://www.tributaries.info/p2539.htm


I wrote to the person who manages the family tree
Click to expand...

So the Brooks and Curtiss lines are linked via Brücke from Hanover, Germany and they are also linked to the Frush/Froschauer line which states origin from Rhineland-Pfalz, but the FTDNA project shows how descendants have different Y-DNA...

Regardless, Brooks, Curtiss, and Frush/Froschauer are closely related in terms of STRs and all should be BY64684+. FTDNA has Brooks being FT126500 which the FTDNA haplotree has as downstream of BY64684.
 
Huracan said:
So the Brooks and Curtiss lines are linked via Brücke from Hanover, Germany and they are also linked to the Frush/Froschauer line which states origin from Rhineland-Pfalz, but the FTDNA project shows how descendants have different Y-DNA...

Regardless, Brooks, Curtiss, and Frush/Froschauer are closely related in terms of STRs and all should be BY64684+. FTDNA has Brooks being FT126500 which the FTDNA haplotree has as downstream of BY64684.
Click to expand...


What do you mean by ...different ydna ?

They are all T1a2 branch ....our branch

you mentioned in 2014 , you are linked with them https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...A-Haplogroup-T?p=435157&viewfull=1#post435157
 
@Huracan
What I got from administrator of Ysearch in mid 2012 .................yoou can see Reddick on the list ...............pity Ftdna closed down Ysearch


These are the people closest to you on Ysearch and of course Dalessio is the closest:

3THJ8 Jones Unknown
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 17 9 9 11 12 26 15 19 32 11 11 15 16 10 10 23 25 16 13 17 18 32 33 14 9

4MNH3 Schales Germany
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 9 9 11 12 26 15 20 33 11 15 15 16 10 11 23 25 16 13 17 17 34 34 14 9

CXMD6 Mozet Martin, Slovenia
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30

R4VSF Reddick Florida, USA
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30

TB9PE Benedetto Bari, Italy
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 8 9 11 12 26 15 19 33 11 11 15 16 10 12 23 24 16 13 18 17 34 34 13 9


YSU4S Dalessio Selerno, Italy
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 9 9 11 12 27 15 19 35 11 11 15 16 10 11 23 25 16 13 19 16 34 34 14 9 12 11 15 11 8 17 17 8 11 10 8 12 11 20 20 17 10 12 12 15 8 26 21 11 12 14 10 11 12 11

It seems to me clear an expansion from the "Italian Refugium" Northwards as I think having demonstrated for other Y and mt haplogroups. Big Y or Full Y could say how old is this subclade of T-L446, i.e. if this haplogroup was in Italy many thousands of years ago or more recently. From this we'll be able to understand also the ethnic origin of this ancestor.


we don't know how really close they are to you, but amongst the people with at least 37 markers we can see that Dalessio is the closest to you in many markers and above all in DYS447: you have 28, Dalessio 27 and all the Northern Europeans 26. This is an important markers and clearly you are very close to Dalessio. Beyond this Italians are a little tested as to Central Europeans and above all the people from the Isles


It seems that your T is in Europe from at least 6800 years: From Western Black Sea area.

 
torzio said:
@Huracan
What I got from administrator of Ysearch in mid 2012 .................yoou can see Reddick on the list ...............pity Ftdna closed down Ysearch


These are the people closest to you on Ysearch and of course Dalessio is the closest:

3THJ8 Jones Unknown
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 17 9 9 11 12 26 15 19 32 11 11 15 16 10 10 23 25 16 13 17 18 32 33 14 9

4MNH3 Schales Germany
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 9 9 11 12 26 15 20 33 11 15 15 16 10 11 23 25 16 13 17 17 34 34 14 9

CXMD6 Mozet Martin, Slovenia
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30

R4VSF Reddick Florida, USA
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30

TB9PE Benedetto Bari, Italy
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 8 9 11 12 26 15 19 33 11 11 15 16 10 12 23 24 16 13 18 17 34 34 13 9


YSU4S Dalessio Selerno, Italy
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 9 9 11 12 27 15 19 35 11 11 15 16 10 11 23 25 16 13 19 16 34 34 14 9 12 11 15 11 8 17 17 8 11 10 8 12 11 20 20 17 10 12 12 15 8 26 21 11 12 14 10 11 12 11

It seems to me clear an expansion from the "Italian Refugium" Northwards as I think having demonstrated for other Y and mt haplogroups. Big Y or Full Y could say how old is this subclade of T-L446, i.e. if this haplogroup was in Italy many thousands of years ago or more recently. From this we'll be able to understand also the ethnic origin of this ancestor.


we don't know how really close they are to you, but amongst the people with at least 37 markers we can see that Dalessio is the closest to you in many markers and above all in DYS447: you have 28, Dalessio 27 and all the Northern Europeans 26. This is an important markers and clearly you are very close to Dalessio. Beyond this Italians are a little tested as to Central Europeans and above all the people from the Isles


It seems that your T is in Europe from at least 6800 years: From Western Black Sea area.
Click to expand...


again from administrator ..................i forgot he states I am a Ladin from Italian Alps

About Dalessio there are two accounts on Ysearch: YSU4S and TTAWM. The contact person is always Carol Jacob. You may write her through Ysearch.
Of course she is probably an American and makes many mistakes:
1) the ancestors are one time "Ales Dalessio" with some variance in the surname: Delessio and D'Alessio"
2) The dates of birth and death 1995 (evidently for 1895) and 1968
3) The town of origin "Selerno" is very likely "Salerno" with an American pronunciation.
Everything is in favor of a D'Alessio from Salerno. This haplotype is diffused everywhere in Italy and very likely is here from many thousands of years. Beyond this your haplotype, even though certainly belonging to the same cluster, may be separated from thousands of years, that only a Big Y or a Full Genome could specify.

Your origin are very likely in that Ladin speaking region we spoke about elsewhere about the Niederstaetter's paper. Perhaps in the future I'll be able to say where this haplogroup was many thousands of years ago.


I do currently have a myheritage connection with a D'Alessio , but she states here original surname was Di Lessio and came from Caorle on the coast

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caorle
 
torzio said:
What do you mean by ...different ydna ?

They are all T1a2 branch ....our branch

you mentioned in 2014 , you are linked with them https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...A-Haplogroup-T?p=435157&viewfull=1#post435157
Click to expand...

The Freshour project background mentions three sons of Johann Georg Froschauer: Wendel, Georg, and John. The results page shows each son's descendants being of different Y-DNA (Wendel I-M170, John I-M223, Georg T-M70 [aka BY64684], and another named Jacob R-PH4276) so I'm having trouble connecting them all to the same father.

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/freshour/about/results

Instead, I think they were just"categorized" like that and could be unrelated but just have the same surname or its variations. For my organizational purposes in creating the Y-STR phylogenies, I'll accept it as is and list the Frush/Froshour men as BY64684+ and hailing from Germany.
 
Huracan said:
The Freshour project background mentions three sons of Johann Georg Froschauer: Wendel, Georg, and John. The results page shows each son's descendants being of different Y-DNA (Wendel I-M170, John I-M223, Georg T-M70 [aka BY64684], and another named Jacob R-PH4276) so I'm having trouble connecting them all to the same father.

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/freshour/about/results

Instead, I think they were just"categorized" like that and could be unrelated but just have the same surname or its variations. For my organizational purposes in creating the Y-STR phylogenies, I'll accept it as is and list the Frush/Froshour men as BY64684+ and hailing from Germany.
Click to expand...




You do know that all the Frush people listed above has your snp of CTS1848 ...............which makes you closer to them , than myself
 
torzio said:


You do know that all the Frush people listed above has your snp of CTS1848 ...............which makes you closer to them , than myself
Click to expand...

Interesting I thought they were BY64684?

Also, Hulpeau from Belgium tested Z19950+

Gamma-1.1-D T-CTS1848 (confirmed/predicted)
327403Jean Hulpeau, b. 1509 and d. 1589BelgiumT-Z19950
 
Huracan said:
Interesting I thought they were BY64684?

Also, Hulpeau from Belgium tested Z19950+

Gamma-1.1-D T-CTS1848 (confirmed/predicted)
327403Jean Hulpeau, b. 1509 and d. 1589BelgiumT-Z19950
Click to expand...

id:YF78879 BEL [BE-WHT]wln (Matt Verona)
id:YF79187 BEL [BE-WHT]wln (Francisco Bernot)
id:YF79186 BEL [BE-WHT]wln (Paulino Bernot)
id:YF67318 BEL [BE-WHT]wln (Ed Bernot)
and
Jean Tillieux.........T-Z19950 > T-CTS1848>T-Z19945>T-CTS8862>etc.>T-CTS933>Y6055>T-L446>T-L131 Jean Tillieux/Belgium.. <<<<<<<< same as Jean Halpeau

All of these have your CTS1848 marker
 
Guess I was confused. I remember you saying the Brooks and Curtiss lines were related to Frush/Froschauer lines but if Frush is CTS1848 then they aren't closely related to the Brucke/Brooks/Curtiss. Will correct in my STR list and phylogeny.
 
Huracan said:
Guess I was confused. I remember you saying the Brooks and Curtiss lines were related to Frush/Froschauer lines but if Frush is CTS1848 then they aren't closely related to the Brucke/Brooks/Curtiss. Will correct in my STR list and phylogeny.
Click to expand...

your group has Curtiss , Brooks and Frush lines and are shown Positive for CTS1848 regardless of what marker they are now, You are CTS1848 positive, does not matter what marker you end up in the future.



my group is Negative for CTS1848 , .........this group has Italian, Dutch, German, Poles, Scots ( Hill line, both carolina states in USA )


We are all positive for the group Z19945 .............but our branches split, either having positive CTS2214 or negative
 
torzio said:
your group has Curtiss , Brooks and Frush lines and are shown Positive for CTS1848 regardless of what marker they are now, You are CTS1848 positive, does not matter what marker you end up in the future.



my group is Negative for CTS1848 , .........this group has Italian, Dutch, German, Poles, Scots ( Hill line, both carolina states in USA )


We are all positive for the group Z19945 .............but our branches split, either having positive CTS2214 or negative
Click to expand...

Screen Shot 2021-02-09 at 11.43.11 AM.jpg

Screen Shot 2021-02-09 at 11.45.39 AM.jpg

We're all Z19945 but the Brooks and Curtiss lines are not CTS1848
 
Huracan said:
View attachment 12559

View attachment 12560

We're all Z19945 but the Brooks and Curtiss lines are not CTS1848
Click to expand...


These charts are not accurate ............eg in my SNP report I show that I am not even tested for CTS1848 , salento shows he is negative, Caquelin shows Positive, Halpeau shows positive, Vironet shows as positive,

Daniel Curtiss only shows as not being tested for it ...page 6

Salento on page 11 shows Negative

yourself on page 9 shows positive

this kit MI59655 shows positive

Sizemore shows negative

All 3 Bernot show positive

All the Knox kits, not tested for CTS1848

Laurent shows positive ...page 2

I went through all 76 pages and could not find Brooks

to conclude ..............ignore the tree you presented as it seems to be based on an incomplete SNP kit trees
 
In the block tree in ftdna it shows all of these branches has CTS1848



so, I would not count the tree as being accurate in ftdna
 
torzio said:
In the block tree in ftdna it shows all of these branches has CTS1848



so, I would not count the tree as being accurate in ftdna
Click to expand...

Thank you for this. Where can I access the block tree?
 
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