Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

Hawk said:
So, is Y-DNA T one of the lineages of PPNB farmers from Levant? How did it end up among Somalis? Because both their E-M78 and Y-DNA T have a recent founder effect among Somalis, looks like both Y-DNA E-M78 and T entered Eastern Africa with Natufian-like/PPNB populations and mixed with Nilothic Eastern African populations.

Would it show among Ancient Egyptians?
Click to expand...

… some Ts went back to Africa! … from Asia, like R1*.
y T was in Europe since the neolithic.

Y T may have originated in Western Asia, … spread into E. Africa, S.Asia, S.Europe, and more.

….. T on the African continent may, like R1* representatives, point to an older introduction from Asia. The Levant rather than the Arabian Peninsula appears to have been the main route of entry, as the Egyptian and Turkish haplotypes are considerably older in age (13,700 BP and 9,000 BP, respectively) than those found in Oman (only 1,600 BP). According to the authors, the spotty modern distribution pattern of haplogroup T-M184 within Africa may therefore represent the traces of a more widespread early local presence of the clade. Later expansions of populations carrying the E1b1b, E1b1a, G and J NRY lineages may have overwhelmed the T-M184 clade-bearers in certain localities……

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184
 
Hawk said:
So, is Y-DNA T one of the lineages of PPNB farmers from Levant? How did it end up among Somalis? Because both their E-M78 and Y-DNA T have a recent founder effect among Somalis, looks like both Y-DNA E-M78 and T entered Eastern Africa with Natufian-like/PPNB populations and mixed with Nilothic Eastern African populations.

Would it show among Ancient Egyptians?
Click to expand...


are you referring to the T in the cave found with a bow.............a hunter ?

Ain Ghazal ( 9600 yBP - Early Neolithic ) Late Middle PPNB

I1707 ( 9573 ± 39 yBP )
Y-DNA: T1a-PF5610 (x T1a1a-Z19870, T1a1b-Y6031, T1a2b-FGC37337, T1a2a-Y9189)
mtDNA: R0a
Other IDs: Ghazal-I / AG83_5 / Poz-81097
Coverage: 0,142
atDNA Notes: Northern origin.
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

...............
or these below who are from one line also found in Iberia and atlantic coast Morocco
Peqi'in Cave ( 6150 yBP - Late Chalcolithic )

I1155
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: K1a
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 0.09
Other IDs: CHPK021 / S1155.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1160
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: N1a1b
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 308
Other IDs: CHPKL101B-005, CHPKL101B-011 / S1160.E1.L1, S1161.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1165
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: HV1a’b’c’
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 0.95
Other IDs: CHPKL104-004 / S1165.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1166
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: H
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 0.981
Other IDs: CHPKL104-014, CHPKL104-026 / S1166.E1.L1 / S1167.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1170
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: T1a2
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 0.67
Other IDs: CHPKL105-030 / S1170.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1172
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: K1a
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 0.12
Other IDs: CHPKL108B-024 / S1172.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1178
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: I6
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 2.56
Other IDs: CHPKL109L-015 / S1178.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1180
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: T
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 0.09
Other IDs: CHPKL109M-028 / S1180.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1187
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: U6d
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 0.12
Other IDs: CHPKL301N-001 / Library S1187.E1.L1
Other IDs: CHPKL109M-028 / S1180.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

Peqi'in Cave atDNA notes: Northern origin. They also carry the WHG G allele for Blue eyes at Rs12913832.
 
Northern origin refers to anywhere between Black sea Georgia area to northern Syria
 
Salento said:
… some Ts went back to Africa! … from Asia, like R1*.
y T was in Europe since the neolithic.

Y T may have originated in Western Asia, … spread into E. Africa, S.Asia, S.Europe, and more.

….. T on the African continent may, like R1* representatives, point to an older introduction from Asia. The Levant rather than the Arabian Peninsula appears to have been the main route of entry, as the Egyptian and Turkish haplotypes are considerably older in age (13,700 BP and 9,000 BP, respectively) than those found in Oman (only 1,600 BP). According to the authors, the spotty modern distribution pattern of haplogroup T-M184 within Africa may therefore represent the traces of a more widespread early local presence of the clade. Later expansions of populations carrying the E1b1b, E1b1a, G and J NRY lineages may have overwhelmed the T-M184 clade-bearers in certain localities……

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184
Click to expand...


Lemba T in South Africa origin in modern syria.............they went to modern Yemen, then Tanzania and then south Africa, they mixed and married local women as they took no women with them when they left syria ..............looking at their history they believe they where some type of religious order...........I might check on web to see any updates on them.

first reported in the mendez paper of 2011
 
Interesting in BigY is that T1a2-Pages00113 has a few Ukraines, Belarus and Poles ..............yet this snp is negative for myself .............but I have a Pole in my T1a2-SK1480 group, he does state/thinks he is of dutch origin part of hansetic league


still nothing on who is the sample in post #1065
 
Ulrich Blarer b about 1190 and d 1242 Sankt Gallen Switzerland T-CTS933


in any Ftdna project ................my closest , oldest sample seems to be , the above


but the one that sits in my group ( also in yfull ) is Giovanni ERSPAMER, b. 1704 (Malosco, Italy) Italy
 
T-CTS8862 is now in Germany, T-BY143483 and T-SK1480 overlap in Italy, ... we're totally Romans :giggle:

WwigIEY.jpg
 
Salento said:
T-CTS8862 is now in Germany, T-BY143483 and T-SK1480 overlap in Italy, ... we're totally Romans :giggle:

WwigIEY.jpg
Click to expand...


looks like Samnites or Sabines .............we are not elite enough to be Romans:bigsmile:
 
torzio said:
looks like Samnites or Sabines .............we are not elite enough to be Romans:bigsmile:
Click to expand...

…we’re very Elite (Golden King, Jefferson, …), as far as we know, Romulus was one of us, maybe :)
 
torzio said:
looks like Samnites or Sabines .............we are not elite enough to be Romans:bigsmile:
Click to expand...


umbri migrated into Italy from central europe circa 2300BC ..............like your map :unsure::bigsmile::unsure:
 
torzio said:
looks like Samnites or Sabines .............we are not elite enough to be Romans:bigsmile:
Click to expand...

If the timeline is OK, we should share close ancestors in the last 220 years or less, … and since the 1600s (at least), Rome, Marche, and Lecce has had communities of people close to my DNA (according to MyHeritage).

Wa8qwHH.jpg


d0JQSBg.jpg
 
torzio said:
umbri migrated into Italy from central europe circa 2300BC ..............like your map :unsure::bigsmile::unsure:
Click to expand...

Archeologists support the idea that Umbrians were formed in Italy, didn't come from abroad. Those who arrived in the Bronze Age are a prehistoric or protohistoric component from which their language is most likely descended.

For anthropologists then, one can speak of peoples in Italy and other parts of Europe only when they show ethnic self-awareness, which occurs in the Iron Age, and not before.
 
Pax Augusta said:
Archeologists support the idea that Umbrians were formed in Italy, didn't come from abroad. Those who arrived in the Bronze Age are a prehistoric or protohistoric component from which their language is most likely descended.

For anthropologists then, one can speak of peoples in Italy and other parts of Europe only when they show ethnic self-awareness, which occurs in the Iron Age, and not before.
Click to expand...

I agree ....and I said many times , the bulk of Italians from central and south italy come via only 2 groups , the Etruscan and Umbri group

I leave out Sicily and the Northern Italians groups ( basically the ones north of the Po river and the Liguri ( and beyond ) )......................I only state what other Archeologists state in their documentations , that the Umbri came into Italy via the NE of Italy passage from Central-Europe/czechia areas, ............the date I posted is what they posted
 
Salento said:
If the timeline is OK, we should share close ancestors in the last 220 years or less, … and since the 1600s (at least), Rome, Marche, and Lecce has had communities of people close to my DNA (according to MyHeritage).

Wa8qwHH.jpg


d0JQSBg.jpg
Click to expand...


I have a record of my family line ( paternal )going back to 1450 .............for your 220 years ago......my line as per BDM, was in Ponzano Veneto and Villorba towns ...........in 1823 one line went to Morgano in Veneto and another to Volpago del Montello in Veneto.

prior to 1820 ..............the family was around the above noted areas and Montebelluna Veneto areas ( north of )

my cousins in Italy in the last 5 years has found a 90% link with the family in attachment below ...................this family and its marriages with locals has me linking with many DNA matches in the area of Val di Non, Trentino ( it many towns ) ..............I cannot challenge this , even if I ignore 2 segments matches of DNA, there are many I share beyond 2 segments and up to 6 segments ...................chat with me privately for further info/proof

I know your surname is common in Italy ...an equal to smith an jones in britain.......but I have not come across it in my line............maybe your family had a name change.

here is the oldest link presented to my cousins in italy and matching many families in the area

http://www.dermulo.it/DermuloStory/Genealogia/PretH.htm
 
Statistically speaking, if our y Haplogroup had been more popular, we could have had a few clades between us, (higher chances for mutations) … I guess :)
 
torzio said:
I agree ....and I said many times , the bulk of Italians from central and south italy come via only 2 groups , the Etruscan and Umbri group

I leave out Sicily and the Northern Italians groups ( basically the ones north of the Po river and the Liguri ( and beyond ) )......................I only state what other Archeologists state in their documentations , that the Umbri came into Italy via the NE of Italy passage from Central-Europe/czechia areas, ............the date I posted is what they posted
Click to expand...

Sorry saying that, but it is nonsense. Etruscans were also in northern Italy from the very beginning of their history and were related linguistically to the Rhaetians of the Alps. Even the Umbrians at some point in their history expanded northward. These are not topics that can be discussed without any proper knowledge.
 
Salento said:
Statistically speaking, if our y Haplogroup had been more popular, we could have had a few clades between us, (higher chances for mutations) … I guess :)
Click to expand...


in our group is a ...Erspamer ...b.1701 ..............related to the person which runs

http://valdinonusa.com/index.php

the site only deals with people who migrated to the USA, so it does not count all
 
Pax Augusta said:
Sorry saying that, but it is nonsense. Etruscans were also in northern Italy from the very beginning of their history and were related linguistically to the Rhaetians of the Alps. Even the Umbrians at some point in their history expanded northward. These are not topics that can be discussed without any proper knowledge.
Click to expand...

The term "Raetic" refers to a few hundred inscriptions found mainly in the Trentino and in South and North Tyrol, as well as sporadically in the Veneto, in Graubünden, and in Slovenia. These inscriptions, written with North Italic alphabets, are roughly dated between the 6th and the 1st centuries BC, and are the only documents of the Raetic language

When did these Etruscans have a union with the Rhaetics ?
 
torzio said:
The term "Raetic" refers to a few hundred inscriptions found mainly in the Trentino and in South and North Tyrol, as well as sporadically in the Veneto, in Graubünden, and in Slovenia. These inscriptions, written with North Italic alphabets, are roughly dated between the 6th and the 1st centuries BC, and are the only documents of the Raetic language
When did these Etruscans have a union with the Rhaetics ?
Click to expand...

I know you don't like the idea that Etruscans and Raetians were related linguistically, but at some point you need to grow up and stop being interested in these topics only to research yourself, your ancestors, and your identity. We need to move on to the next stage.
 
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