Parafarne
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hi I have created this thread to discus about r1b df19, it is geographically very germanic and within the germanic area of influence historically yet it is near to gallo-roman haplogroups genealogically so I am confused about its belonging and origin.Please discus this and reply to it! Thanks
Parafarne
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Well theres no discussion from anyone so I researched myself a bit about R-DF19 it seems that its a Germanic lineage and spread from southern Scandinavia togather with R-S21, I1, R-L238.I got his information from FTDNA website.
Parafarne
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Greg Streib
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I am glad there is a thread. I am an R-DF88. Here are two things that I learned recently.
This looked like an interesting article: The Dutch Y-Chromosomal Landscape. If I am reading this correctly. They did a sample/study of Dutch DNA and found no DF19 lines. Some do make a Frisian connection, so I thought DF19 might show up. This may or may not be meaningful.
Second, I was chatting with someone about my Y lineage from Eschelbronn, Germany. He seemed knowledgeable about the distribution of DF19. He said that there was little knowledge about Eschelbronn; however, there was a lot of DF19 in the surrounding area (Heidelberg is close by). Given my own DNA and what we already think we know, this might be evidence of a migration of some sort. Though I do not think there is a DNA map of Germany.
This looked like an interesting article: The Dutch Y-Chromosomal Landscape. If I am reading this correctly. They did a sample/study of Dutch DNA and found no DF19 lines. Some do make a Frisian connection, so I thought DF19 might show up. This may or may not be meaningful.
Second, I was chatting with someone about my Y lineage from Eschelbronn, Germany. He seemed knowledgeable about the distribution of DF19. He said that there was little knowledge about Eschelbronn; however, there was a lot of DF19 in the surrounding area (Heidelberg is close by). Given my own DNA and what we already think we know, this might be evidence of a migration of some sort. Though I do not think there is a DNA map of Germany.
VikingRaider
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A relative in 2009 took a DNA test on 23AndMe, which stated he was R1b1b2a1a2d3, found among Celts in Northern Ireland 500 years ago (although there were no "Celts" 500 years ago)...
On World Families (which is no longer running) they told me it was Alpine Celtic, R1b U152, so for almost ten years I thought I was Alpine Celtic/Roman....
Then, another relative (and I think the U152 relative), both took the DNA test in 2017 on Family Tree DNA and are listed as R1b DF19 which was discovered in 2011 as a new subglade.
Were they listing people as U152 back in 2010 who were actually DF19 since they seem to be closely related, both being descended from P312......?
On World Families (which is no longer running) they told me it was Alpine Celtic, R1b U152, so for almost ten years I thought I was Alpine Celtic/Roman....
Then, another relative (and I think the U152 relative), both took the DNA test in 2017 on Family Tree DNA and are listed as R1b DF19 which was discovered in 2011 as a new subglade.
Were they listing people as U152 back in 2010 who were actually DF19 since they seem to be closely related, both being descended from P312......?
I am quite far downstream of DF-19, currently FTDNA has me at R-Z17121 although this is currently under review and so likely to move even further down stream.
My direct line paternal ancestry is English, as am I, and my path is:
R-M207>M173>M343>L754>L761>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310>L151>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>S17075>S10067>Z17115>Z17119>Z17121
The DF19 project on FTDNA is probably the best place to learn more.
The current thinking is it originated in what is now the coastal area of the Netherlands i.e Frisia and spread from there amongst the northern Germanic and southern Scandinavian tribes.
From there it moved to Britain via the Saxon wave of migration and probably later again through the Vikings and Normans.
My direct line paternal ancestry is English, as am I, and my path is:
R-M207>M173>M343>L754>L761>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310>L151>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>S17075>S10067>Z17115>Z17119>Z17121
The DF19 project on FTDNA is probably the best place to learn more.
The current thinking is it originated in what is now the coastal area of the Netherlands i.e Frisia and spread from there amongst the northern Germanic and southern Scandinavian tribes.
From there it moved to Britain via the Saxon wave of migration and probably later again through the Vikings and Normans.
My haplo has been updated and I actually form a new group below Z17121 named as R-BY77000. I share it with two others who both have Devon origins, I'm the outlier with Shropshire.
So now my path is:
R-M207>M173>M343>L754>L761>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310>L151>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>S17075>S10067>Z17115>Z17119>Z17121>BY77000
We are theorising a Norman origin, but I'm waiting on the MRCA to be updated in the FTDNA Discover report.
I'd be interested if anyone has any thoughts on Norman settlement in the West Country.
So now my path is:
R-M207>M173>M343>L754>L761>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310>L151>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>S17075>S10067>Z17115>Z17119>Z17121>BY77000
We are theorising a Norman origin, but I'm waiting on the MRCA to be updated in the FTDNA Discover report.
I'd be interested if anyone has any thoughts on Norman settlement in the West Country.