Race and Haplogroups

N

Neander

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Ethnic group
Albanian - Dinaric
Y-DNA haplogroup
Pre-Adam
mtDNA haplogroup
Pre-Eva
[SIZE=-1]Italy[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] = 50% Dinaricized Mediterranean (most common in the south and Sicily), 20% Dinaric (most common in the north), 15% Alpine (most common in the northwest), 10% West Mediterranean (most common in Sardinia), 4% Noric (most common in the north, 1% Nordic (most common in the remnants of the Ostrogoth and Lombard aristocracy) = 5% Nordish (1% central and 4% periphery types). Italy, much like the other southern European countries of the Mediterranean region -- Spain, Portugal and Greece -- experienced several waves of Nordish invasions during ancient and early Medieval times, from the Danubians (circa 2,000-1,500 B.C.), who brought the Indo-European language that developed into Latin, and the Kelts (beginning circa 500 B.C.), to the Germanic Ostrogoths and Lombards (A.D. 400-700). These Nordish elements have been gradually assimilated into the majority Mediterranean population, but some of their genetic traits, existing in solution, occasionally recombine to appear in individuals whose other traits are mostly non-Nordish.[/SIZE]
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As we can see, we find Alpine race together with R1b.
West Mediterranean together with I2a1.
Nordic together with R1a.
Dinaric and dinaricized mediterraneans together with J2 and E1b1b.
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what about east mediterranean greeks? isnt there a east med race as well? and what about the maltese? and how about the armenian armenoid type? are they j2 j1 or e? arabians are j1 the arabid type i think! you also forgot I1 which is aboriginal scandinavian
 
maltesekid said:
what about east mediterranean greeks? isnt there a east med race as well? and what about the maltese? and how about the armenian armenoid type? are they j2 j1 or e? arabians are j1 the arabid type i think! you also forgot I1 which is aboriginal scandinavian
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The I1 was born in Iberia,

800px-Genomap01.jpg
 
Neander said:
As we can see, we find Alpine race together with R1b.
West Mediterranean together with I2a1.
Nordic together with R1a.
Dinaric and dinaricized mediterraneans together with J2 and E1b1b.
Click to expand...
Where is the scientific foundation of this ??
 
Neander said:
As we can see, we find Alpine race together with R1b.
West Mediterranean together with I2a1.
Nordic together with R1a.
Dinaric and dinaricized mediterraneans together with J2 and E1b1b.
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
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What reference(s) are you using? I don't believe some of what you quoting is accurate.
 
R1b is the dominant haplogroup in parts of Cameroon, among the Bashkirs in Russia, in some parts of central India, and in some Afghan tribes. These people do not look at all like each others, and not at all like the Irish, the Basque or Northern Italians, who also don't look like each others.

I think this shows well how Y-DNA has very little to do with looks.
 
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I opened the thread to talk about THE LAST apearence of a group people which belong to a certain haplogroup, before they settlet in certain places.

In Northwest Italia are a lot of alpines, and a lot of R1b. This is fact.

That means that these are invaders from other places where alpines R1b lived.
 
Also, we find in Sardinia a lot of I1a1 and also a West mediterranean Race.

Also we find I1a1 in Spain, together with West mediteranean race. So we conclude that before arriving of R1b, the Iberia was I1a1.

And we conclude that I1a1 at one time was linked to West mediteranean race.
 
Neander said:
As we can see, we find Alpine race together with R1b.
West Mediterranean together with I2a1.
Nordic together with R1a.
Dinaric and dinaricized mediterraneans together with J2 and E1b1b.
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
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How do you define Dinaric? As in, the mountains? If so, the highest frequency haplogroup is I2a2. E1b1b seems to be regulated to Albania with highest frequency and become much lower in any direction.
 
I2a2 is linked to slavic people. In the highest level of I2a2, we find cephalic index 86.

But in the Albania we find cephalic index 88. So E1b1b is linked to dinaric race.

I2a2 took dinaric features after they marry local illyrian woman.
 
Linking race to y-dna haplogroups is an almost impossible task, except perhaps in some sort of very broad and general terms. Autosomal dna is recombinant. It does not identify itself neatly; that is, it doesn't tell you where it came from. Some traits are dominant, and others are recessive. That plays out across the whole panoply of human physiological and phenotypical characteristics. It's just too complex a subject to enable us to say, simply, that this y haplogroup is "Nordic" or that one is "Alpine," etc.

The best one can do is say that certain y haplogroups are mostly European, while others are mostly African or Asian, etc. Even then there are exceptions and overlaps.
 
This has been discussed hundreds of times already. You can be of different races and belong to a same haplogroup. Plus, there are different subclades of different origin from a same haplogroups (example J and E subclades in europeans)..etc
 
Wilhelm said:
This has been discussed hundreds of times already. You can be of different races and belong to a same haplogroup. Plus, there are different subclades of different origin from a same haplogroups (example J and E subclades in europeans)..etc
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You have to properly analyse the STRs and the subclades to determine genetic native origin. A person can be R1b and have STRs and subclade markers that are far different from other R1b persons. R1b from the Atlantic end of Europe, for example, is generally quite dissimilar to what is found in, say, the eastern or northern areas of the continent.
 
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This has been discussed hundreds of times already. You can be of different races and belong to a same haplogroup. Plus, there are different subclades of different origin from a same haplogroups (example J and E subclades in europeans)..
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It is out of topic.

I am talking of completely diferent thread.

It is not hard to see, that R1b, was alpine before coming to Italy.

Hmmm, Yes, it could be and Negro in another place or another time, ort mogol, or even dog or wolf.

BUT...

I am saying BEFORE COMING FROM ALPS TO ITALY.

They were alpine people in Alps or Gallia, with R1b. This brought alpine race and R1b in the Italy.
 
Neander said:
It is out of topic.
Hmmm, Yes, it could be and Negro in another place or another time, ort mogol, or even dog or wolf.

BUT...

I am saying BEFORE COMING FROM ALPS TO ITALY.

They were alpine people in Alps or Gallia, with R1b. This brought alpine race and R1b in the Italy.
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Actually Cameroon has a pocket of R1b people...But obviously is not the same branch of R1b as the one found in Europe..
 
Neander said:
I2a2 is linked to slavic people. In the highest level of I2a2, we find cephalic index 86.

But in the Albania we find cephalic index 88. So E1b1b is linked to dinaric race.

I2a2 took dinaric features after they marry local illyrian woman.
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What are you talking about? Are you really this delusional?

Firstly, I should address the point you made. With respect to Illyrians, the inhabitant haplogroups were there thousands of years prior to "Illyria." So, I would assume a mixture of E1b1b and I2a2, with E1b1b relagated to a few Illyria tribes in the south. I would assume the Illyria's north of Albania to be I2a2 with a very high concentration in Hercegovina. Most Illyrian tribes would be I2a2. The Illyrian tribes that came in contact with Greeks would probably be E1b1b and I2a2. The cultural capital of Illyria was Stolac, Hercogina - this haplogroup would most definitely be I2a2.

Secondly, the Dinaric Alps constitute a much broader area from Albania to Slovenia. The haplogroup with the highest frequency is I2a2. E1b1b is regulated to Albania.

Please show evidence that the E1b1b has the cephalic index of 88 and I2a2 of 86. This is pure speculation and nonsense. If you got this from a cephalic index map, it is hardly a measure of haplogroup correlation with cephalic index. You continue to make things up.

Thirdly, the fact that I2a2 is found in slavic countries has nothing to do with the the highest frequency being found among the Dinaric Alps. This is more attest to gene flow from the Dinaric Alps into slavic countries. E1b1b does not show the same gene flow, so, one would assume it's not as fit for the climate as I2a2 is.

Everything you have posted about this is rhetoric that is fancied in a way that you draw erroneous inferences from presumptions.
 
I2a2 has certainly not been brought with the Slavs.
in western Croatia,which is untouched by Turks and keeps the original Croatian dialect,and is considered the 'purest' Slavic area in Croatia,you have 38% of R1a and only 9.5% of dinaric I2a,which is btw nothing more than amount of I2a found in northern Italian province of Trento,which is certainly not Slavic in any way(see 'agricultural diffusion southeast europe')
in dinaric areas of Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina you have over 70% I2a and only 12% R1a.
Second highest concentration of I2a outside east Adriatic-western Balkans is in Romanian historical province of Moldova(41%).
P.S. i don't believe there is 25% of I2a in Belarus,they should make a new study.Haplogroup I classification has changed significantly in time.
 
Joro said:
I2a2 has certainly not been brought with the Slavs.
in western Croatia,which is untouched by Turks and keeps the original Croatian dialect,and is considered the 'purest' Slavic area in Croatia,you have 38% of R1a and only 9.5% of dinaric I2a,which is btw nothing more than amount of I2a found in northern Italian province of Trento,which is certainly not Slavic in any way(see 'agricultural diffusion southeast europe')
in dinaric areas of Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina you have over 70% I2a and only 12% R1a.
Second highest concentration of I2a outside east Adriatic-western Balkans is in Romanian historical province of Moldova(41%).
P.S. i don't believe there is 25% of I2a in Belarus,they should make a new study.Haplogroup I classification has changed significantly in time.
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Hi Joro, look at this map.
http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...oples_9c_map.jpg&filetimestamp=20090604081328
North of Carpathian Mountains there are two tribes : W.Chrobatians and R.Chrobations (Ch=H). I checked few sources and it means Horvats. In English it translates as White Croats and Red Croats. Croats arrived in Dinaric Alps around 600 BC with Slavic Expansion. Where did they come from? If one can trust this map and some historians, it might show the remnants of Croatians tribes that didn't move south. I read in polish text that White Croats stopped North the Red Croats South in Dinaric Mountains. Now when you look at the map where Red Chrobatians are. They are located exactly between Moldova in south, and Belarus in north. Now the puzzle of heavy I2a in Moldova, South Croatia and Belarus makes sense.
White Chrobatians come from region also called Little Poland and heavy in R1a.
Not sure myself how much water it holds, but it makes some sense. What do you think? It would explain the colours on your flag though. :grin:

Recently I've read few research papers, in polish though futile to post here then. The thing is that more and more historians come to conclusion that first millennium (probably much before) Slavs in central Europe where already a mixture of R1a and I2a, and not pure R1a.
 
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