Serbs and Croats origin from Germanic Scirii and Hirri?

Franks where almost certainly a R1b people linked to France. Phrygians where a J2 people from Anatolia just adjacent to the Lydians whom they ruled for a short period after the central core Lydian empire crumbled. They where even at times called interchangeably with Lydians and Phrygians as the same race, they where J2 , their original seat was near the Ararat mountain-Van area of Armenia and they may be linked to the tyrrhenians that colonized Italy, as the Lydians are. Some original venetians spoke a Gaulish language, the majority anyways, but they where not called veneti at that time. There are conflicting accounts, some say veneto is named after the western French veneti Celtic tribe. Others say the later incoming Eneti, who where paphlagonian Turks gave their name to the area and very lightly genetically affected the area. But there is zero link between your Ukrainian venedi and the italian veneti or the Germanic franks and the Mesopotamian/Semitic Phrygians
 
those where the Celtic galati, Galatians. The phrygians where linked to Muskie or meshketi, Caucasus Georgian men. They originally sat on a throne in Georgia, just north of togarmah the father of Armenians and pushed into parts of Mediterranean Europe, although some culture I believe the Galatians, has to explain for the 30% R1b in Armenia but I think it was Galatians movements. They spoke an indo-European language similar to kartvelian, these Phrygian Mushki or meshketi. And you say that Czechs find their origins in poles....this may be possible in part since Czechs are a fusion of Slavic-Celtic elements, R1a and R1b predominantly.
 
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al-kochol said:
Cannot you comprehend that Vikings were also Slavs? 1st rulers of Kievan Ruś were pure Vikings.
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Yes Al Kochol, and it looks like the Celts of Western Ireland were Slavic, and also the major branch of the Han in Asia. Also even more surprising the haplogroup E in Kenya plus the Mayan in the Americas.
 
It's funny because he sounds he's in pain or suffering how bad he wants it, can you not comprehends that the Vikings was entirely Slavic? Lol wtf no they where not they where I1a, obviously!
 
nordicwarbler said:
Yes Al Kochol, and it looks like the Celts of Western Ireland were Slavic, and also the major branch of the Han in Asia. Also even more surprising the haplogroup E in Kenya plus the Mayan in the Americas.
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I can ensure you that Barack Obama is not Slav, but Angela Merkel is. In her latest biography it has been revealed that her true maiden name was Kaźmierczak, which her grandfather changed to Kasner, after moving from Poland to Germany. What do you reckon, is it a Kenyan surname?
 
What y-haplogroup does Angela Merkel belong to? It must be a rather uncommon one based on the fact that she is um, a woman.

I thought we were talking about I1 being Slavic. You're going to have to sharpen your argument.

Hg. I1 is not Slavic, there isn't a map in existence that will illustrate your point.
 
I'm going to throw you rope Al Kochol... you stated that hg. I1 was Slavic which is false.

What I think you meant was that a few lines of I1 contributed to the Slavic make-up. That could be true.
 
It´s hard to understand,but high haplogroup frequencie is not equal place of origin.
 
We knowwwwwwww, but is it safe to say hg I1 did not originate in Russia or china? Yes, it's prototypically Scandinavian.
 
No Sami are not prototypical Scandinavians they are the exception, they are later invaders like the massive bulk of the Finns. They are paternally N1c and maternally predominantly U5b and believe it or not, mtdna V. They are not prototypical Scandinavians, they are an isolate even within Scandinavia where they correlate slightly more with Finns. They have much lower levels of Nordic Swedish-Norwegian I1a, MUCH lower.
 
"Three Y chromosome haplogroups dominate the distribution among the Sami: N1c (formerly N3a), I1 and R1a. The most common haplogroup among the Sami is N1c, with I1 as a close second. Haplogroup R1a in Sami is mostly seen in the Swedish Sami and Kola Sami populations, with a low level among the Finnish Sami. Tambets and colleagues suggested that N1c and R1a probably reached Fennoscandia from eastern Europe, where these haplogroups can be found in high frequencies." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181943/table/TB2/
 
http://www.samenland.nl/lap_sami_si.html "Two thousand years ago, the Sami inhabited all of present-day Finland. They have also lived in coastal areas around the Gulf of Bothnia, in the inland of Sweden and all the way to the Atlan­tic Ocean, from central Norway north to the White Sea, in what is now Russia. "
 
Yeah but two thousand years ago they didn't penetrate all the way to northern Norway and Sweden where they subsequently mixed in with I1a of Nordics. They didn't originally have I1a and R1a those components mixed in later ( I1a) or before (R1a). They picked up I1a as they penetrated Scandinavia and their culture made contact with I1a people's, unless you are implying that Sami men from Russia moved into Finland/Scandinavia and are the eponymous fathers that brought I1 with them, which I more than heavily doubt.
 
Sami are about 50% N1c, 30% I1a and 10-15% R1a so they still have about twice as much I1a than R1a, 30% still being a sizeable chunk. But obviously their 1 out of 2 men in N1c , definitely the core dominant element. I doubt that the original Scandinavians was Sami because most of them are N1c, which arrived to the area MUCH later than I1a, so I doubt the original Sami was the I1a guys and then some extra N1c came in. Plus they have a Siberian N1c type lifestyle, chasing/following reindeers and such animals as they're ancestors must have done crossing Siberia to arrive in Finland. Instead I believe the Sami are a sort of off-shoot of the Finns ( which much highest mtdna V). That arrived in fenno-Scandinavia and subsequently due to close distance and proximity, mixed in and acquiring some of these I1a and R1a "foreign" elements. To me they are the predominantly N1c "later immigrants" to the area, as the Nordic I1a men where established in Scandinavia long before them as the "throne holders" or original "kings" of early Scandinavia
 
You are a beliver,adamo.Have you any scientific ground for your clames? "The oldest archaeological discoveries were found along the coast of the Arctic Ocean in northern Norway and are about 10,000 years old. Evidence of later human habitation has been found throughout Sápmi. It is likely that these are the remains of a people who later came to be called Sami."
 
@adamo

Haplogroups are unreliable and can be misleading sometimes.

"A first look at the DNA of Neolithic inhabitants from Sweden"
http://dienekes.blogspot.de/2012/04/first-look-at-dna-of-neolithic.html

These people (Ajv52, Ajv70) were very similar genetically to the saami of today, as well to Finns als Balts. I think they were most likely the big-animal hunters which followed the melting glaciers from south to north, because big animals lived in the Tundra. The very slight asian influence in today Saami could have been aquired by the trans-eurasian (Atlantic to Ural) lifestyle of nomadic hunters in general. I think this could be also a reason for the slight "asian" shift of the north european autosomal component in general.

EDIT: This discussion is actually offtopic in this thread.
 
Gyms is correct -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_people

The hg I1 appeared in scandinavia around 3000BC with the battle axe culture. They were a mix of Carpathian I1 and Steppe R1a. Sami are the oldest continues Scandinavians today. If there was hg I in Scandinavia before 3000BC it died out, and no modern subclad exists.
 
So I guess people's correlating genetically with Finns arrived first and the I1a people later, that implies that Finns arrived before the Norwegian-Swedish types? So Finns are the original Scandinavians? You would think N1c would be more widespread e over Norway/Sweden if this was the case but anyways....I suppose that these Finnic types where pushed out of much of western Scandinavia by the arrival of these I1a men then...
 
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