Politics Should Crimea be an independent country? (Russian-Ukrainian conflict)

Russian government agency revealed that turnout in Crimean referendum was about 30%-60% and only half of it (15%-30%) voted for joining Russia.
Sources:
1. Washington Post
2. Forbes

This agency web page is still online and the figures are based on just 20 interviews. It is even possible that these 20 people were deliberately chosen as examples who have problems (human rights?) in Crimea, but google translate is too limited to be sure.
Anyway, a recent poll shows that 88% of Crimeans support the referendum result:

PG-2014-05-08-ukraine-russia-0-05.png

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08...rnance-ukrainians-want-to-remain-one-country/

Excerpt:
PEW said:
Crimean residents are almost universally positive toward Russia. At least nine-in-ten have confidence in Putin (93%) and say Russia is playing a positive role in Crimea (92%).

International observers (those who were willing to follow the russian invitation) confirmed that even the Tatars started participating in the referendum im the afternoon. Their "leader" has not enough influence it seems.

It is also very interesting to finally get an impression of the opinions from other parts of Ukraine.
 
So much talk?! No, there was no talk about Ukrainian nazi movement and their sponsors. You didn't allow it, if you remember?

It's interesting that these guys have German flag emblems:

qpjec6.jpg

This is irrelevant. These jackets are popular in many other countries. Which does not disprove German involvement however.
 
Wuhahahaha! Konchita Wurst won Eurovision hahahaha the true face of degraded EU!
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Time to built new Berlin wall on the Polish-Belorusian border
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Wuhahahaha! Konchita Wurst won Eurovision hahahaha the true face of degraded EU!
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Time to built new Berlin wall on the Polish-Belorusian border
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This time it'll be called a Russian Wall.
 
Today in Eastern Ukraine will be held referendums on separation, I am already smell the freedom for Donetsk Republic and rest of Malorossiya. While western Ukraine & Kiev can go to west & Konchita
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Even though the annexation of Ukrainian lands from Russia its a hard pill to swallow for the moment, in the long term it will translate in stability for Ukraine. Ukrainians have a good chance of joining the EU. There are a large number of EU countries with Slavic heritage that will push hard for Ukraine to join. That will translate in more democracy and prosperity for Ukraine.
 
Wuhahahaha! Konchita Wurst won Eurovision hahahaha the true face of degraded EU!
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Time to built new Berlin wall on the Polish-Belorusian border
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I agree (in the first part). I also did not like the "boos" that the audience made, when that gorgeous lady from your country was about to give the votes of the Russian people.
 
I agree (in the first part). I also did not like the "boos" that the audience made, when that gorgeous lady from your country was about to give the votes of the Russian people.

That Eurovision proved that modern Europe become Sodom and Gomorrah cloaca, just like Roman Empire during pervert Caligula and crazy Neuron. For me those two definitely not example to follow. I would rather chose way of Gaius Julius Caesar or Marcus Aurelius.
That "boos" can badly end for them if Russia will ignore future contests, the chance of this is even higher since other countries will now also send gay, lesbians & transvestites. Russia will leave, Belorussia will leave and several other countries with time will leave -> Eurovision will turn into western Europe private gay contest. It's better to made own eastern european version of eurovision without politics.
 
Today in Eastern Ukraine will be held referendums on separation, I am already smell the freedom for Donetsk Republic and rest of Malorossiya. While western Ukraine & Kiev can go to west & Konchita
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Well, referendum with Russian democratic standards will always point this side which is “chosen” to be right:
Yesterday near Sloviansk group of separatists was detained with 100 000 ballots with marked answer Yes.
Here are sources:
1. in English.
2. in Polish with video.
Terrorist have no chance to take control over region, National Guard is protecting Ukrainian citizens.

By the way Malorosja is the area of Chernigov and Poltava Governorate, not Donetsk and Lugansk oblast. If you are using extended meaning of its term then it means nearly hole of Ukraine.:rolleyes:
 
Well, referendum with Russian democratic standards will always point this side which is “chosen” to be right:
Yesterday near Sloviansk group of separatists was detained with 100 000 ballots with marked answer Yes.
Here are sources:
1. in English.
2. in Polish with video.
Terrorist have no chance to take control over region, National Guard is protecting Ukrainian citizens.

By the way Malorosja is the area of Chernigov and Poltava Governorate, not Donetsk and Lugansk oblast. If you are using extended meaning of its term then it means nearly hole of Ukraine.:rolleyes:
Typical Soviet "voting" and "justice".
 
That Eurovision proved that modern Europe become Sodom and Gomorrah cloaca, just like Roman Empire during pervert Caligula and crazy Neuron. For me those two definitely not example to follow. I would rather chose way of Gaius Julius Caesar or Marcus Aurelius.
That "boos" can badly end for them if Russia will ignore future contests, the chance of this is even higher since other countries will now also send gay, lesbians & transvestites. Russia will leave, Belorussia will leave and several other countries with time will leave -> Eurovision will turn into western Europe private gay contest. It's better to made own eastern european version of eurovision without politics.
Keep these sick posts coming. Whole world should know who we are dealing with.
 
I agree (in the first part). I also did not like the "boos" that the audience made, when that gorgeous lady from your country was about to give the votes of the Russian people.

What is the "boos".
 
Western Ukranians for sure must join Europe, Konchita will be their next president
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http://



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He is not representative of people with more conservative opinons.
How do you know?
Are you talking about conservatives in Russia or in general?
 
This agency web page is still online and the figures are based on just 20 interviews. It is even possible that these 20 people were deliberately chosen as examples who have problems (human rights?) in Crimea, but google translate is too limited to be sure.
Anyway, a recent poll shows that 88% of Crimeans support the referendum result:

PG-2014-05-08-ukraine-russia-0-05.png

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08...rnance-ukrainians-want-to-remain-one-country/

Excerpt:


International observers (those who were willing to follow the russian invitation) confirmed that even the Tatars started participating in the referendum im the afternoon. Their "leader" has not enough influence it seems.

It is also very interesting to finally get an impression of the opinions from other parts of Ukraine.
I do not know where you have read that information about 20 interviewers.
In the text published is information about survey in Crimea which showed that turnout was about 30-50% and votes for joining Russia was about 50%. This Russian institution concluded that this estimation implies caution in political moves in Crimea, so that they recommend that Crimean residents should keep their Ukrainian citizenship at list to 31.12.2014.

I thing that now Russian government is doing their best to destabilize Ukraine in order to incise number of dead to convince Crimeans that Russia really rescued them from civil war. Everything is going well, because Ukrainian SBU published few times that Russian intelligence were preparing provocation that would have lead to many casualties. As the result there ware incident in Odessa where about 42 people was killed. Scenario was not complicated, some pro-Russian activist started to shooting to the pro-Ukrainian crowd, four people was killed, there was panic, militia did not react properly, after few hours crowd came back with strong need of vengeance to pro-Russian camp, and they used molotov cocktails. Very sad story, Russian provocation accomplished.
By the way many people detained in that day were Russian or residents of neighboring Transnistria.

Here are quotes from source:
1. Russian
Референдум

По мнению практически всех опрошенных специалистов и граждан:


- подавляющее большинство жителей Севастополя проголосовали на референдуме за присоединение к России (явка 50-80 %), в Крыму по разным данным за присоединение к России проголосовали 50-60 % избирателей при общей явке в 30-50 %;


- жители Крыма голосовали не столько за присоединение к России, сколько за прекращение, по их словам, «коррупционного беспредела и воровского засилья донецких ставленников». Жители же Севастополя голосовали именно за присоединение к России. Опасения перед незаконными вооруженными формированиями в Севастополе были больше, чем в других районах Крыма.


Предложения:


1. Продлить срок принятия жителями Крыма решения о сохранении гражданства Украины, по крайней мере, до 31 декабря 2014 г.


2. В целях сохранения, прежде всего, связей с родственниками и единства семей, проживающих в остальных областях Украины, не принимать законодательных актов, направленных на отказ от сохранения гражданства Украины жителям Крыма, не пожелавшим быть признанными гражданами Российской Федерации (за исключением предусмотренных законом случаев, связанных с государственной, муниципальной или военной службой).


3. Документировать видами на жительство в Российской Федерации всех жителей Крыма, иностранных граждан и лиц без гражданства, имеющих виды на жительство в Украине, лиц, признанных в Украине беженцами, постоянно проживающих на территории Крыма, пожелавших сохранить гражданство Украины вне зависимости от наличия или отсутствия у них регистрации места жительства на территории Крыма по состоянию на 18 марта 2014 г.


4. Жителям Крыма, не имеющим регистрации места жительства на территории Крыма по состоянию на 18 марта 2014 г., определить законодательно возможность подтверждения постоянного проживания на территории Республики Крым доказательствами, не обязательно исходящими от органа регистрационного учета, в т.ч. судебным решением. Разместить в территориальных органах ФМС России информацию об этом.


5. Обеспечить достоверное информирование населения о требованиях законодательства Российской Федерации по обязательности наличия и последствиях отсутствия у лиц определенной социальной группы гражданства Российской Федерации.


6. Уравнять жителей Республики Крым и города федерального значения Севастополь в реализации прав на пенсионное, медицинское и иное социальное обеспечение, трудовых, имущественных и земельных отношений и образование вне зависимости от отсутствия или наличия гражданства Российской Федерации. Исключить дискриминацию населения Крыма в трудовых, социальных и других правах по признаку гражданства.


7. В переходный период жителям Республики Крым, приобретшим или не приобретшим гражданство Российской Федерации, предоставить и гарантировать законодательно возможность реализации указанных прав при предъявлении ими паспорта гражданина Украины и (или) справки о принятии заявления на признание их гражданами Российской Федерации.


8. Подтвердить законодательно гарантии сохранения и государственной поддержки существующих на территории Крыма вероисповеданий.


9. Принять срочные меры по восстановлению снабжения Республики Крым продовольствием и продуктами, в целях недопущения повышения цен на них из-за переориентации товарооборота с Украины в Россию.


10. Восстановить Факультет украинско-татарской филологии в Таврическом федеральном университете и украинскую гимназию в Симферополе.


21 апреля 2014 г.
2. English translated by google:
referendum

According to almost all survey participants and citizens :


- The vast majority of inhabitants of Sevastopol voted in a referendum to join Russia ( 50-80 % turnout ) , in Crimea on different data for joining Russia voted 50-60% voter turnout with a total of 30-50 % ;


- Inhabitants of Crimea voted not so much for joining Russia , as for the termination, in their words, " corruption and lawlessness thieves dominance Donetsk henchmen ." Inhabitants of Sevastopol to vote for annexation to Russia . Fears illegal armed groups in Sevastopol were higher than in other regions of the Crimea .


suggestions:


1. Extend Deadline for residents of the Crimea decision to retain the citizenship of Ukraine , at least until December 31, 2014


2 . To preserve primarily ties with relatives and unity of families living in other regions of Ukraine , not to take legislative acts aimed at not save Ukrainian citizenship to residents of Crimea , not wishing to be recognized as citizens of the Russian Federation (except for cases prescribed by law associated with state, municipal or military service ) .


3 . Document residence permits in the Russian Federation, all residents of Crimea , foreign citizens and stateless persons who have residence permits in Ukraine , persons recognized as refugees in Ukraine , residing in the territory of the Crimea , who wished to retain the citizenship of Ukraine , regardless of the presence or absence people are registered residence in the territory of Crimea on March 18, 2014


4 . Crimean residents who do not have residence registration in the Crimea as of March 18, 2014 , to determine the possibility of legislative confirmation of permanent residence in the territory of the Republic of Crimea, the evidence is not necessarily coming from the registration authorities , including judicial decision. Place in the territorial bodies of FMS of Russia about this .


5 . Provide significant public awareness of the requirements of the Russian legislation on the mandatory presence and consequences of the lack of persons of a particular social group of Russian citizenship .


6. Equalize residents of the Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol city of federal significance in the implementation of rights to pension, medical and other social services , labor, property and land relations and education , regardless of the absence or presence of Russian citizenship . To avoid discrimination in the employment of the Crimean population , social and other rights on grounds of nationality .


7. During the transition period the inhabitants of the Republic of Crimea, has acquired or not acquired citizenship of the Russian Federation , and to provide an opportunity to ensure the implementation of these statutory rights upon presentation of Ukrainian passport and (or) the certificate of acceptance of the application for recognition of the citizens of the Russian Federation.


8. Validate law guarantees the preservation and support existing state in the Crimea faiths.


9. Adopt urgent measures to restore the supply of the ARC of food and products, in order to avoid price increases are due to the reorientation of trade with Ukraine in Russia .


10 . Faculty Restore Ukrainian- Tatar philology at the Tauride Federal University and Ukrainian school in Simferopol.


April 21, 2014

If Russian government institution speaks against media propaganda I do not have reason to belief in survey that has limited access to information.

ElHorsto in text above there is no information about 20 intervievers.
 
Much water has flown under the bridge since that time, RF elite don't seek for EU or NATO membership. I am myself for that time discovered that even Russia & Europe have different values and world vision, not to mention US-RF.

It's not the different values (they have never been a problem), but the sudden selective lack of respect for different values.
 
I am guess according to Poles all these people on the video are KGB-FSB agents
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