Politics Should Crimea be an independent country? (Russian-Ukrainian conflict)

LoL, that should have been a comment on the Miha'z quote, not your response to his words. Forum engine set me up :)
 
Ike said:
LoL, that should have been a comment on the Miha'z quote, not your response to his words. Forum engine set me up :)
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Oh, ok. No problem, I just perceived your comment under mine as ironic, so it still fits somehow :)
 
@ El Horsto

+1 from me,

you seem able to analyze, and discuss,
and you do not sound like Radio (his master's) voice,
Although I disaggree in few, I like your analysis,
 
Yetos said:
@ El Horsto

+1 from me,

you seem able to analyze, and discuss,
and you do not sound like Radio (his master's) voice,
Although I disaggree in few, I like your analysis,
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I'm glad. It means he is totally wrong. :))
 
LeBrok said:
I'm glad. It means he is totally wrong. :))
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I am not expecting something else from HK voice
as I would not expect something Different from P voices


I Like cause he thinks, he dare to think, and analyze, in modern dark times
not transmiting the voice
 
ElHorsto said:
Tell it to EU and NATO.



Because the european geniusses started sanctions, so Russia had to beg China. Another response was that Gazprom cancelled south-stream and choose Turkey as new proxy, so EU has to care by itself about new pipeline builds. Compare the pipelines to Europe with those to China. Russia was totally Europe oriented.
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Putin negotiated with China for a long time. Russia didn't want to agree for low price propose by China. When thing got bad with Europe, Putin signed cheep deal with China to show Europe that Russia will have alternative market. Otherwise the deal is a great one for China but not so much for Russia. Russia makes much more money per unit of gas selling it to rich European market of half a billion people. Not mentioning that most Russians live in European part of Russia and use gas too.
This brings us to a main reason why Russia is European Market oriented. Millions upon millions of well paying customers. You can try to dress it up in some nice story about charity and sacrifices of Russians helping the rest of Europe, totally missing the main reason why business builds pipelines.
Money talks bulshit walks.

Because China can force cheap prices on Russia, because Russia lost the european alternative. This is exactly what Putin not wanted.
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Putin is losing rich European market. Smart moves of KGB bureaucrat.

The Europe-Russian relation and trust which was developed during 50 years has been destroyed by us.
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Were you hiding on a moon through this time? The only Western friendly attitude existed during Gorbachev and Yeltsin times. The rest of the time Russians were fed anti Western propaganda, about the rotten, degenerate, materialistic, imperialistic West. That's why they elected Putin to lead them to new glory of Russian Empire against their biggest enemy the West, the Nato and the CIA.


Putin is a right-wing conservative and Russia is probably more capitalist than EU and US. Thatcher and Reagan would be amazed about Russia's corporatist-capitalist system, which I personally do not support, but it is not bolshevist for sure.
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Yeah, the probably is the key word here. Capitalism loves free market economy. Should we have a discussion how decentralized and free russian economy is? Russian economy is more like Chinese, government planned, controlled and corrupted, type of capitalism than the Wester one. Without oil and gas income, Russian economy would really suck.

Culturally Putin is also closer to nationalism, tsarism and traditionalism, which is completely the opposite of internationalistic modernistic bolshevism.
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And knowing his goals and character you trust his words? Wow.


At the moment his popularity is rising. But George Friedman predicts Russia's collapse in about four years, and I see this happening too, because Russia is truly in a geostrategically defensive situation. Russia will have a hard time defending it's countless borders, which are spoiled by "staged colored revolution" (cit. Friedman talk). If collapse happens, you wouldn't be as safe anymore as you are now.
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Give me one example of Russia borders being attacked since WW2 by a Nato country. Putin is using Nato scare tactics to unite Russians behind him. There is no danger to Russia from Nato.
The only party who violated territory of other sovereign one is Russia, who unilaterally removed Crimea from Ukraine and is engaged militarily helping russian rebels in Donbas.

What is your definition of aggressor?
 
@ Le Brok

by what I see you are a fan of Abramovich & friends,
Perhaps you want Russia to sell Nuclear bombs as in Yeltsin times.

or aircarriers as casino.


I admit and I agree to your fears about Russia,

But do you fear USA also? or not?
 
Yetos said:
@ Le Brok

by what I see you are a fan of Abramovich & friends,
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What?!

I admit and I agree to your fears about Russia,

But do you fear USA also? or not?
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Ukraine to Russia is like Canada to USA, the smaller brother. It would be so easy for USA to "acquire" Canada if they really wanted. I guess they don't want too. Why should I fear?
 
LeBrok said:
What?!



Ukraine to Russia is like Canada to USA, the smaller brother. It would be so easy for USA to "acquire" Canada if they really wanted. I guess they don't want too. Why should I fear?
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or like Mexico?

is it true that in US it morale to have a Mexican worker?
but not morale to have a Canadian?

to go further Canada Australia are the good guy of the AngloSaxon commonwealth,
a strong political papper,
 
Yetos said:
or like Mexico?

is it true that in US it morale to have a Mexican worker?
but not morale to have a Canadian?
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I have no idea how can you conclude this. What ethnicity or nationality have to do with morality of an employer?! And what the heck, the sovereignty of a countries which we discussed above, has to do with people working abroad?! Personally I employed Canadians and Mexicans. Everything was legal, all made the same money, and all were treated exactly same way.
Sometimes I imagine that you came from a very small village where everything looked familiar and made sense. Later in life, you came to the big city and world on internet and this vast unfamiliar world you see scares you a lot, cultures are weird, things are confusing, and everybody is are after you and your Greece.

to go further Canada Australia are the good guy of the AngloSaxon commonwealth,
a strong political papper,
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Geez, nobody thinks like this in the West, besides the fact that there is no such thing as AngloSaxon Commonwealth. Is this what they taught you in Greek schools or you read it on the Internet? Yetos, the world in your head is upside down! Stop inventing things. Get out and travel sometimes, talk to normal people.
 
LeBrok said:
I have no idea how can you conclude this. What ethnicity or nationality have to do with morality of an employer?! And what the heck, the sovereignty of a countries which we discussed above, has to do with people working abroad?! Personally I employed Canadians and Mexicans. Everything was legal, all made the same money, and all were treated exactly same way.
Sometimes I imagine that you came from a very small village where everything looked familiar and made sense. Later in life, you came to the big city and world on internet and this vast unfamiliar world you see scares you a lot, cultures are weird, things are confusing, and everybody is are after you and your Greece.

Geez, nobody thinks like this in the West, besides the fact that there is no such thing as AngloSaxon Commonwealth. Is this what they taught you in Greek schools or you read it on the Internet? Yetos, the world in your head is upside down! Stop inventing things. Get out and travel sometimes, talk to normal people.
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No in Greek schools we learn grammar and maths.
but in my small village, where paople are still people with Heart,
we learn about History, and learn to critisize what ever we hear, and see
and don't tell that the Good guy is USA and the bad Guy is Russia,
After WW2 we had a civil war due to USA / Russia conflict,
and at 1967 we had 2 dictaorships supported by Guess who?
Henry Kissinger,
so your myth about the myth of Free world, or the myth of Communist Heaven better tell them to others,
Ukrainians should decided for their shelves,
now since your WEST and free morale world supported Cyprus sauvereign division,
why does not decide the same in Ukraine?


and just to remind you in what you believe,
BOMB, BOMB, PRESIDENT,
waiting for CIA troops :grin: :grin:

:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:
 
Yetos said:
or like Mexico?

is it true that in US it morale to have a Mexican worker?
but not morale to have a Canadian?

to go further Canada Australia are the good guy of the AngloSaxon commonwealth,
a strong political papper,
Click to expand...
Yetos,things were like that some years ago,now ,it does not really matters what is the ethnicity of the worker.Is very moral to have a worker of any ethnicity.
There is something called "visa sponsorship" an US based company can ask a working visa for someone that is not an US citizen.

Putin is a mentally backward person,he still thinks world can be ruled with weapons.
Now world is ruled with money and technology.
This is why US is ruling the world,cause they have most advanced technology and most money from the world.
 
Yetos said:
No in Greek schools we learn grammar and maths.
but in my small village, where paople are still people with Heart,
we learn about History, and learn to critisize what ever we hear, and see
and don't tell that the Good guy is USA and the bad Guy is Russia,
After WW2 we had a civil war due to USA / Russia conflict,
Click to expand...
Again Greeks blame someone else for their problems.
If someone wants to steal money obviously poor Greece is not the best target. Why not invade Singapore or Hong Kong? How difficult it would be to do for the West? Oh wait, greedy GB (West) gave rich Hong Kong away to China. What is going on?!

and at 1967 we had 2 dictaorships supported by Guess who?
Henry Kissinger,
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Just because US wasn't in state of war with Greek dictator, it doesn't mean they were friends. Likewise, when US opens up with trade and relations with today's Cuba, it doesn't mean they support dictators there.


so your myth about the myth of Free world, or the myth of Communist Heaven better tell them to others,
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Remember how you believed that Occupy Wall Street movement will change the world? Nobody even talk about this anymore. Gone, done, finito.

Ukrainians should decided for their shelves,
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Yes they do, and they asked West for help. Can't we help them, because it would mean that we control them?

now since your WEST and free morale world supported Cyprus sauvereign division,
why does not decide the same in Ukraine?
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No idea what you mean.


and just to remind you in what you believe,
BOMB, BOMB, PRESIDENT,
waiting for CIA troops :grin: :grin:
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Cite me encouraging to Bomb anyone in this conflict.
 
LeBrok said:
Again Greeks blame someone else for their problems.
If someone wants to steal money obviously poor Greece is not the best target. Why not invade Singapore or Hong Kong? How difficult it would be to do for the West? Oh wait, greedy GB (West) gave rich Hong Kong away to China. What is going on?!

Just because US wasn't in state of war with Greek dictator, it doesn't mean they were friends. Likewise, when US opens up with trade and relations with today's Cuba, it doesn't mean they support dictators there.


Remember how you believed that Occupy Wall Street movement will change the world? Nobody even talk about this anymore. Gone, done, finito.

Yes they do, and they asked West for help. Can't we help them, because it would mean that we control them?

No idea what you mean.


Cite me encouraging to Bomb anyone in this conflict.
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you are either funny, eoither you an allien from Mars,
even officially the US ambassador in Greece at 90's Nicolas Burns ask apologies for Henry Kissinger support to Junta an act of Honor,
and you tell us that greeks were not in war with US?

I think you must search again which Dictators supported US,

and about Cuba, it US that declared embargo, and US that stops it,
so John is treating, John is Drinking,


No, everybody speaks about the Globalization of Banking system and Dictatorship of the banks,
only you do not see it,
just ask the Argentina Greece Cyprus etc etc,
Because in US and canada did not discuss it, that does not mean that rest of the world is not.

and about Cyprus and Ukraine
yes you do understand,
simply your diplomats tell you through media what they want and hear,

in 1974 they divided Cyprus sauvereign
why in 2014 speak about Ukraine's sauvereign as one?


PS
I do not want to be someomne else voice,
so yes Putin might be a dictator who wants to be rich,
but the same wa Yeltsin which you mention as friendly to West,
same was US Bush Family with oil prices, which gave 2 presidents

Sory,
Since US army used Unesco Aid to children to find Bin Laden, (this does not mean I like him)
I can not support any 'Western' 'good will' project,
I DO NOT TRUST WEST AS I DO NOT TRUST RUSSIA,
so Free Ukraine from the bad Rusian its ok
but Free Argentina from the bad US Banker and Judge is not Ok?
 
Yetos said:
you are either funny, eoither you an allien from Mars,
even officially the US ambassador in Greece at 90's Nicolas Burns ask apologies for Henry Kissinger support to Junta an act of Honor,
and you tell us that greeks were not in war with US?

I think you must search again which Dictators supported US,

and about Cuba, it US that declared embargo, and US that stops it,
so John is treating, John is Drinking,


No, everybody speaks about the Globalization of Banking system and Dictatorship of the banks,
only you do not see it,
just ask the Argentina Greece Cyprus etc etc,
Because in US and canada did not discuss it, that does not mean that rest of the world is not.

and about Cyprus and Ukraine
yes you do understand,
simply your diplomats tell you through media what they want and hear,

in 1974 they divided Cyprus sauvereign
why in 2014 speak about Ukraine's sauvereign as one?


PS
I do not want to be someomne else voice,
so yes Putin might be a dictator who wants to be rich,
but the same wa Yeltsin which you mention as friendly to West,
same was US Bush Family with oil prices, which gave 2 presidents

Sory,
Since US army used Unesco Aid to children to find Bin Laden, (this does not mean I like him)
I can not support any 'Western' 'good will' project,
I DO NOT TRUST WEST AS I DO NOT TRUST RUSSIA,
so Free Ukraine from the bad Rusian its ok
but Free Argentina from the bad US Banker and Judge is not Ok?
Click to expand...

The bad big world. I'm sure you're regretting you left your lovely village.
 
LeBrok said:
The bad big world. I'm sure you're regretting you left your lovely village.
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no

I went to a big city,
and then to another,
and I manage well.
I was close to leave my country to work in Arabic countries, but I did not due to the Greek curse of first son,
But I travel a lot Europe and Balkans for my work,
Tell us, Why you leave your country?

now tell me?
what is the problem of small villages and big cities?
and what makes you think I have agoraphobia?


Besides world is not bad,
People are,

and
STILL YOU DO NOT ANSWER ME!!!!
why you avoid?


do you like your 'free' civilized world?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2FxAqOvwRs&spfreload=10

Fantastic
 
mihaitzateo said:
What Yetos you think that average white Russian policeman would behave differently in such a situation?
Racism was the cause of that incident.
Besides,LeBrok lives in Canada,where I doubt such things are happening.
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that is an answer to 'good WEST free world'

I never said Russia is better,
but when you accuse Russia as bad guy,
then you must also accuse all the bad guys

Bulling is a bad thing either from Russia, either from West.

in fact I believe these 2 cooperate in bulling.
and they share North pole oil, together.
 
mihaitzateo said:
What Yetos you think that average white Russian policeman would behave differently in such a situation?
Racism was the cause of that incident.
Besides,LeBrok lives in Canada,where I doubt such things are happening.
Click to expand...
Canadian police rather kills big white guys. Watch from 5 min in.
 
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