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Subdivisions of Polish people

Tomenable

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Among ethnic Poles, we can distinguish at least the following major ethnographic groups:

1) Greater Poles (western Poles, Wielkopolanie, Polans),
2) Cuiavians (Kujawiacy),
3) Pomeranians,
4) Central Poles (historical Sieradz Land & Łęczyca Land),
5) Silesians,
6) Lesser Poles (southern Poles, Małopolanie, Vistulans),
7) Mazurs (Mazovians),
8) Kresowiaks (North-Eastern & South-Eastern Poles)

1) Greater Poles (Wielkopolanie, "Poles proper") inhabit more or less the original territory of the tribe of Polans (from which the names Poland and Poles are derived), as well as other areas where Greater Polish settlers and their dialect expanded throughout history. Greater Poland is the oldest part of Poland and this is where the Polish statehood emerged during the 9th and 10th centuries. Poznań is the main city of this region. We can distinguish smaller ethnographic subdivisions among Greater Poles. For example Pałuki, Biskupianie, Bambrzy (descended from Polonized German settlers from the area of Bamberg), Kaliszans, and others. In the territory of Greater Poland, there live also two Silesian-speaking ethnographic groups - Leśniaks, who live in the area of Rawicz, and Chwalimiaks, who live around Chwalim, Nowe Kramsko and Stare Kramsko. Some researchers include also 2) Cuiavians as a sub-division of Greater Poles. They inhabit areas from Lake Gopło in the south to Noteć River in the north-west and to Vistula River in the north-east. Descended from Cuiavian and Greater Polish settlers, are Kociewiaks, who live in the region of Kociewie in Eastern Pomerania, located between Starogard Pomorski, Tczew, Gniew, Świecie and to the outskirts of Gdańsk in the north. Groups intermediate between Greater Poles and Mazurs (but closer to Greater Poles), are Chełmniaks and Dobrzyniaks (who live in the lands of Chełmno and Dobrzyń), as well as Lubawiaks (in the land of Lubawa). Another intermediate group, but closer to Mazurs, are Catholic Warmiaks in the East Prussian region of Warmia (Ermland).

3) Pomeranians used to inhabit the entire land located to the north of Polans, between the swamps of Noteć River and the Baltic Sea. In the west, Pomeranians extended perhaps as far as the Rügen Island. In the east, they extended as far as the Vistula Lagoon, and their eastern neighbours were Baltic-speaking Prussians. Lipa (today Krynica Morska) was the easternmost Slavic-speaking village on the Baltic coast, but the area of Truso (today Elbląg) to the south of the Lagoon, was ethnically Old Prussian. Most of Pomeranians became Germanized throughout history. Only Eastern Pomeranians preserved their Slavic ethnicity, and are commonly known as Kashubians today. Kashubians who were under Polish rule during the 16th-18th centuries remained Catholic, while Kashubians who lived in Brandenburg-Prussia during the 18th century, were Lutherans. Kashubians could be divided into many smaller folk sub-dvisisions, such Kabatkowie, Karwatkowie, Pomarenkowie, Niniakowie, Beloki, Rybaki, Łyczaki, Lesoki, Korczaki, Zaboraki, Słowińcy (Slovincians), etc. From the Early Middle Ages, Pomerania was under strong Greater Polish and Cuiavian influences, which led to the emergence of several intermediary groups. From the mixture of Kashubians and Greater Poles, emerged an ethnographic group called Borowiaks, who live in the Tuchola Forests, between Tuchola, Koronowo, Świecie and Starogard. Borowiaks are intermediary, whereas another mixed group - Krajniaks - have a mostly Greater Polish character, with relatively minor Kashubian influences. They live in the region of Krajna.

The main city in the region has always been Gdańsk (Danzig), but it is not considered as part of ethnographic Kashubia because it was never Kashubian-dominated, but was either multicultural, German, or Polish throughout its history. Gdańsk is also located on the borderland between three ethnographic regions: Kashubia to the west, Kociewie to the south, Prussia to the east.

4) Central Poles (Łęczyczans and Sieradzans). Łęczyczans live between Greater Poland and Mazovia, and are an intermediate group, originally closer to Greater Poles but with significant Mazur influences. Sieradzans on the other hand, are surrounded by Greater Poland, Lesser Poland and Silesia, and are under strong influence of all three regions. They lost much of their original distinctness. The main city in this region is Łódź, but it originated during the Industrial Revolution, historically it was not an important settlement.

5) Silesians. In the Early Middle Ages, Silesia was inhabited by several Slavic tribes. The most numerous tribe (which ultimately gave its name to the region) were the Slenzans, who lived around Wrocław. They probably numbered 60-75,000 people. The Opolans lived around Opole, their population was perhaps 30-40,000. The Dyadosans lived near Głogów, probably 30,000 people. The Golensizians dwelled near Racibórz, Cieszyn and Opawa. The Lupiglaa probably lived on the Głubczyce Plateau. The Tryebovians occupied areas near Legnica and could number some 25-30,000 individuals. The Poborans lived along the lower and middle course of the Bóbr River. The Psyovians lived near Pszów, to the east of the Opolans and to the west of Cracow. As of year 1000 AD, the total population of Silesia is estimated as around 250,000 people. Following the German Ostsiedlung of the 13th century, the population of Silesia increased to around 510,000 in year 1350 AD (150,000 in Upper Silesia and 360,000 in Lower Silesia), of whom up to 150,000 were Germans. Germans settled mostly in western and northern parts of Lower Silesia. Upper Silesia was less affected by the Ostsiedlung. During the following centuries cultural Germanization gradually shifted the ethnic structure of Silesia, so that by the 20th century nearly all of Lower Silesia had a German-speaking majority. But Upper Silesia remained majority Polish-speaking. There were also Czech-speaking communities. Upper Silesians can be divided into a dozen or so smaller sub-divisions. But the most pronounced difference is between Cieszyn Silesia and the rest of Upper Silesia. This difference emerged due to political border which divided Upper Silesia between Prussia and Austria in the 1740s. Among smaller ethnographic groups which live in Cieszyn Silesia, we can distinguish Silesian Gorals (Silesian Highlanders).

6) Lesser Poles (Małopolanie). Southern Poles. They can be divided into several major sub-groups - Krakowiaks (in the region of Cracow), Gorals (Polish Highlanders), Sandomirians, Lubliniaks and inhabitants of Podkarpacie (Subcarpathia). Krakowiaks live to the north of Gorals, to the east of Silesians, to the west of Sandomirians, in the north they extend as far as Częstochowa and Kielce. This Cracow group can be further subdivided into smaller ethnographic regions. Among Lesser Poles, especially strongly differentiated are the Gorals, who can be further divided into Beskid Gorals, Podhalans, Kliszczaks, Lachy Sądeckie, and several smaller groups. In the east, Lesser Polish Gorals have Ruthenian-speaking Gorals as their neighbours. There is a lot of overlap with Slovak-speaking Gorals in the south. Sandomirians extend in the north as far as Skaryszew and Iłża, in the west beyond Chęciny. Lubliniaks live to the east of Sandomirians in the areas around Lublin, Chełm, Zamość, Tomaszów, Janów and Biłgoraj. To the south of them live Rzeszowiaks, in Podkarpacie (Subcarpathia).

7) Mazurs (Mazovians). They consist of proper Mazurs, known also as Central Mazurs, who live between Sierpc and Płock up to the lower Wieprz River. Between Central Mazurs and Podlasie is the homeland of Eastern Mazurs, and in southern parts of East Prussia - the homeland of Lutheran, Prussian Mazurs, descended from Central Mazurs who settled there in the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries, and assimilated remnants of West Baltic-speaking Old Prussian population. Another Medieval expansion of Mazurs, to the east, into former Yotvingian (ethnically West Baltic) territories, led to the emergence of Sudovian Poles and of Podlasie Mazurs (in the areas around Węgrów, Siedlce, Puławy, Łuków, Sokołów, Włodawa, as far as the Biebrza River). Another group descended from a mix of Poles (mostly Mazurs) and West Balts are the Kurpie, who live in Puszcza Zielona and Puszcza Biała (Green Forest and White Forest). Yet another sub-division of Mazurs, which developed a very rich folk culture thanks to having special privileges and prosperity, are Łowiczans (around Łowicz).

The capital of Poland, Warsaw, is located in the land of Central Mazurs. However, as any large city it has always been a melting pot of people from all regions of Poland and from abroad. In the Early Middle Ages, Płock was a more important city.

8) Kresowiaks. From the 14th century onwards, the expansion of Polish (mostly Mazur, but also Greater Polish and other) settlers towards the north-east, as well as cultural Polonization of local inhabitants, led to the emergence of Wilniuks (North-Eastern Poles) in the Land of Wilno (Wileńszczyzna), which encompasses the borderlands of Belarus, Lithuania and Southern Latvia (Polish Livonia). At the same time, the expansion of Polish settlers (mostly Lesser Poles) towards the south-east, as well as cultural Polonization of local inhabitants, led to the emergence of South-Eastern Poles in Red Ruthenia (with its main cultural centre - Lwów, Lviv), Volhynia and Podolia.
 
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^^^ Compared to regional reference populations in K36 Oracle:

8wMTpsr.png


Folk costumes (but Kociewie should be to the north-east rather than south-east of Bory):

http://68.media.tumblr.com/5ee008a0b178d502695477cd077305b5/tumblr_osh16oekSg1tj42feo1_1280.jpg

tumblr_osh16oekSg1tj42feo1_1280.jpg


Borowiaks live in (and around) Bory Tucholskie, to the west and south-west of Kociewie:

regiony.png


http://kociewiacy.pl/main/images/stories/Image/2007/-0-0-KOCIAK_MIN.jpg
 
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Poles from some areas look darker and more southern than they are stereotyped as. Here is how a random non-cherry-picked group of 81 Polish high school male students and male teachers from the area of Konin was guessed as:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/s...here-can-they-pass-main-types-ANSWER-REVEALED

http://i.imgur.com/fr1KJ31.png

fr1KJ31.png


Phenotypes that were guessed:

Pontid - mentioned 6 times
Alpine - mentioned 5 times
Dinarid - 3 mentions
North Pontid - 2 mentions
Mediterranean - 2 mentions
Baltic / Baltid - 2 mentions
West Baltid - 1 mention
East Nordid - 1 mention
Nordid - 1 mention
Atlantid - 1 mention
Cro-Magnid - 1 mention
Taurid - 1 mention

====================

Appearance of the Dobrzynskis, a Polish clan in Lithuania, which originated from Dobrzyń Land:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobrzyń_Land

"The Dobrzynskis were distinguished among their Lithuanian brethren by their language and likewise by their stature and their appearance. They were of pure Polish blood, and all had black hair, high foreheads, dark eyes, and aquiline noses. From the land of Dobrzyn they derived their ancient family, and, though they had been settled in Lithuania for four hundred years, they preserved their Masovian speech and customs."

Source: Adam Mickiewicz, "Sir Thaddeus, or the Last Foray in Lithuania" (link):

https://archive.org/stream/pantadeuszorlast00mickuoft#page/166/mode/2up/search/Dobrzynskis

https://archive.org/stream/pantadeuszorlast00mickuoft/pantadeuszorlast00mickuoft_djvu.txt

People from Dobrzyń Land are a mix of Greater Polish and Masovian (= Mazur) influences:

Groups intermediate between Greater Poles and Mazurs (but closer to Greater Poles), are Chełmniaks and Dobrzyniaks (who live in the lands of Chełmno and Dobrzyń), as well as Lubawiaks (in the land of Lubawa).
 
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Among ethnic Poles, we can distinguish at least the following major ethnographic groups:

1) Greater Poles (western Poles, Wielkopolanie, Polans),
2) Cuiavians (Kujawiacy),
3) Pomeranians,
4) Central Poles (historical Sieradz Land & Łęczyca Land),
5) Silesians,
6) Lesser Poles (southern Poles, Małopolanie, Vistulans),
7) Mazurs (Mazovians),
8) Kresowiaks (North-Eastern & South-Eastern Poles)

Thank you! Interesting descriptions and informative thread.

There are still many poles left in the regions of Ukraine that weren't part of operation Vistula. And most of them live here for centuries. Do you know when the earliest migrations occurred and from which regions? My aunt is a 100% pole, but not from Poland.

Will try to make a similar thread about Ukrainians subethnic groups.
 
Do you know when the earliest migrations occurred and from which regions?

Probably in the 10th and 11th centuries there could be first migrations to Cherven Towns area (on the border between Poland and Ukraine). But farther east (Red Ruthenia, Podolia, Volhynia, etc.), no earlier than the late 13th and 14th centuries. Also there is a dispute whether the tribe of Lendians were West Slavic or East Slavic. Radimichs and Vyatichi are also uncertain, they could be West Slavic (Lechitic) tribes as well.

and from which regions?

I think that mostly from Lesser Poland, but I've heard that many Mazurs also moved to Ukraine.

My aunt is a 100% pole, but not from Poland.
Where is she from? I think that Zhytomyr Oblast has the highest % of Poles today.

The region of Lviv doesn't have so many AFAIK, most of them moved to Poland after WW2. At least according to official censuses. Probably some people have Polish origins but identify as Ukrainians, so the real number is perhaps higher than according to official data. On the other hand, in the 1920s and 1930s there were people with Ukrainian origin who prefered to identify as Poles at that time.

This babushka still remembers Polish songs from the 1930s, but talks in Ukrainian:
:grin:


Will try to make a similar thread about Ukrainians subethnic groups.
This will be interesting, thanks!

How do you count Poleshuks? Are they more Ukrainian or more Belarusian?

You can include also Ruthenian-speaking Gorals from South-Eastern Poland.
 
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Where is she from? I think that Zhytomyr Oblast has the highest % of Poles today.

Yes, from Zhytomyr Oblast'. There is a village where everyone knows or understand Polish, but speak perfect Ukrainian. I wonder where those people came from. Also I wonder where poles from Bukovyna and Podillya came from.



This babushka still remembers Polish songs from the 1930s, but talks in Ukrainian:
:grin:

Ahaha, that's how it is :grin: Poles remember some Polish but speak perfect Ukrainian. That's why we like them so much more than you know who.


This will be interesting, thanks!

How do you count Poleshuks? Are they more Ukrainian or more Belarusian?

You can include also Ruthenian-speaking Gorals from South-Eastern Poland.

Поліщуки. They identify as forest Ukrainians, literally. They speak a northern Ukrainian dialect. My paternal grandmother is a Polischuk, forest Ukrainian, although it is so close to Kyiv the language is closer to standard. As for Polischuks over the border in Belarus - they seem to change their identity depending on the regime. It always baffled me that Brest (Берестя) oblast' people have characteristic northern Ukrainian -ук; -юк surname suffixes. Ukrainian history teaches that they spoke a Ukrainian dialect. Or technically correct would be to say "our side of ruthenian"

yOKBzqL.gif



That said, we do not have any claim on those territories.

There are subgroupins of Polischuks btw. There are formed from different tribes afterall.
 
I forgot about 9. Polonia - Polish Diasporas around the world! Millions of people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_contemporary_ethnic_groups#Ethnic_groups

nQlKBcl.png


Polish-Americans originated from several waves of immigration, including some recent ones after the fall of Communism. But most of them are descended from the largest and oldest wave (if not counting small-scale influx prior to that, e.g. Polish craftsmen in Jamestown), which took place between 1854 and ca. 1924:

http://translate.google.com/transla....php?showtopic=134951&view=findpost&p=1549907

That immigration is covered by book "A History of Poles in America until 1908" by Waclaw Kruszka:

https://www.google.pl/search?q=A+Hi...&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=G0ygWIyaPMSRsAGmiJDABw

I made a map of the distribution of Polish-Americans ca. year 1900, according to Kruszka's book:

http://s29.postimg.org/7wc62b7br/Poles_USA_1900.png

Poles_USA_1900.png


Detailed estimates:

Pennsylvania - ca. 350,000 (and 112 Polish settlements, and 85 Polish churches)
New York - ca. 340,000 (and 90 Polish settlements, and 46 Polish churches)
Illinois - ca. 300,000 (and 56 Polish settlements, and 49 Polish churches)
New England (3 states below) - ca. 160,000 (70 Polish settlements, 30 Polish churches):
*** Massachussetts - ca. 100,000
*** Connecticut - ca. 50,000
*** Rhode Island - ca. 10,000
Wisconsin - ca. 150,000 (and 101 Polish settlements, and 76 Polish churches)
Michigan - ca. 140,000 (and 73 Polish settlements, and 48 Polish churches)
Minnesota - ca. 80,000 (and 60 Polish settlements, and 47 Polish churches)
Ohio - ca. 80,000 (and 30 Polish settlements, and 15 Polish churches)
New Jersey - ca. 70,000 (and 30 Polish settlements, and 16 Polish churches)
Indiana - ca. 33,800 (and 39 Polish settlements, and 18 Polish churches)
Nebraska - ca. 29,000 (and 29 Polish settlements, and 20 Polish churches)
Missouri - ca. 28,700 (and 12 Polish settlements, and 11 Polish churches)
Maryland - ca. 25,700
Texas - ca. 19,750 (and 34 Polish settlements, and 30 Polish churches)
North Dakota - ca. 16,600 (and 11 Polish settlements and 5 Polish churches)
South Dakota - ca. 9,950
Delaware - ca. 8,000
Kansas - ca. 8,000
California - ca. 6,000
New Hampshire - ca. 5,000
Arkansas - ca. 5,000

All other states - ca. 50,000

Grand total:

1.9 million (out of U.S. population of ca. 76 million), 810 Polish settlements, 517 Polish churches.

Some additional notes:

"Polish settlements" = settlements which were mostly Polish, or had some Polish district, or some large Polish community. Apart from living in such settlements, many families also lived dispersed all over other places.

"Polish churches" = Christian churches with sermons in Polish (or in English, but for Polish communities).
 
DNA Land Ancestry Report results for 16 ethnic Poles from various regions:

tDt6At6.png


^^^
The one with 86% North Slavic is a North-Eastern Kresowiak. He lives in Poland (family resettled after WW2).

His Eurogenes K36 results:

Central_Euro 6.22
East_Balkan 7.65
East_Central_Euro 30.42
Eastern_Euro 18.13
Fennoscandian 16.44
French 1.88
Iberian 6.89
Italian 2.46
North_Atlantic 2.25
North_Sea 7.61

Check his genetic similarity rates on map in Eurogenes K36 calculator (note the 88% similarity to Latvians):

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm

wY6gSe5.png


And below, his DNA Land results:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthr...-from-DNA-Land&p=221637&viewfull=1#post221637

And he has ancestry from what is today Northern Belarus and Southern Latvia:

luLrkpU.png


He has N1c haplogroup and he scores 86% "North Slavic" in DNA Land:

ToizhzM.png


Polish-Latvian border dispute 1919-1939:

https://latvianhistory.com/2014/09/10/latvian-polish-border-dispute-1919-1939/

For comparison, here is an ethnic Belarusian in DNA Land:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/s...sion-results&p=3889950&viewfull=1#post3889950

image.png


^^^ And his Eurogenes K36 results:

Basque 1.72
Central_Euro 8.82
East_Balkan 3.60
East_Central_Euro 25.19
Eastern_Euro 23.82
Fennoscandian 15.70
French 5.12
Iberian 4.34
Italian 1.05
North_Atlantic 5.16
North_Caucasian 0.79
North_Sea 2.41
Volga-Ural 2.30

About the resettlement of Poles from Lithuania and Belarus:

8. Kresowiaks. From the 14th century onwards, the expansion of Polish (mostly Mazur/Mazovian, but also Greater Polish and other) settlers towards the north-east, as well as cultural Polonization of local inhabitants, led to the emergence of Wilniuks (North-Eastern Poles) in the Land of Wilno (Wileńszczyzna), which encompasses the borderlands of Belarus, Lithuania and Southern Latvia (Polish Livonia). At the same time, the expansion of Polish settlers (mostly Lesser Poles) towards the south-east, as well as cultural Polonization of local inhabitants, led to the emergence of South-Eastern Poles in Red Ruthenia (with its main cultural centre - Lwów, Lviv), Volhynia and Podolia.

Today at least 15% of citizens of Poland have ancestry from former Kresy, from what is now Belarus, Lithuania, Ukraine, Latvia and Russia. Here is a Polish thread about Kresowiaks in various regions:

http://www.historycy.org/index.php?showtopic=153392&hl=

In English: http://translate.google.com/transla....historycy.org/index.php?showtopic=153392&hl=

There are also a lot of ethnic Poles who still live in Belarus and Lithuania, because only around 1/2 of Poles were deported from those areas to Poland between 1944 and 1959 (from Ukraine a higher percent):

A comparison of the situation of Polish minority in Lithuania and Lithuanian minority in Poland:

PL_in_LT_LT_in_PL.png



But despite such discrimination, Polish national identity in Lithuania is only growing stronger:

AWPL.png


Soviet 1959 census (already after the post-war expulsion of around 1/2 of local Poles):

d393f526745778ae.jpg


Belarus_Changes.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfg4Xo6zpDM

Ethnic & religious structure of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania in 1789 (before the 2nd Partition):

Total population ------- ca. 3,85 million

Religious structure:

Uniates -------------- 39% (1,5 million)
Roman Catholics ---- 38% (1,47 million)
Jews ----------------- 10% (0,385 million)
Orthodoxes ---------- 7% (0,25 million)
Old Believers -------- 3,6% (0,14 million)
Protestants ---------- 1,5% (0,06 million)
Muslims & Karaites - 1,0% (0,04 million)

Ethnic structure:

Belarusians --------- 37% (1,42 million)
Poles ---------------- 26% (1,01 million)
Lithuanians --------- 20% (0,77 million)
Jews ---------------- 10% (0,385 million)
Russians ------------ 3,6% (0,14 million)
others* ------------- 3,4% (0,13 million)

*Mostly Germans, Karaites and Latvians.

In areas lost by the Grand Duchy of Lithuania to Russia in 1772 (First Partition) there were 1,2 million people and 82% of them were Belarusians (3,4% were Russians).

Another estimate says that Lithuanians were almost 35% of the population of the Grand Duchy in 1790 (around 155,000 Lithuanian households out of 451,132 households in total), and less than 25% before 1772 (when mostly ethnically Belarusian lands were lost).

In 1790 the nobility of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania inhabited 100 palaces, 494 urban houses, 9331 large manor houses and 13890 rural houses.

====

Sources:

Pages 30-31: https://ngoteka.pl/bitstream/handle/item/280/Pod_wspolnym_niebem-MK-WT.pdf?sequence=1

Pages 262-264: http://zbc.uz.zgora.pl/Content/20013/Przemiany_druk.pdf

====

The number of ethnic Lithuanians in the Russian Empire in 1795 was 818,800 according to V. M. Kabuzan. Vast majority were Roman Catholics. Three decades later - in a book from 1825 - S. Plater wrote that in late 1810s there were 1,080,000 Lithuanians in the Russian Empire and 200,000 Lithuanians in East Prussia. But those in East Prussia were Lutherans, not Catholics.

Official Prussian/German census data shows that the % of Lithuanians in East Prussia was declining:

1825 - 139,268 (12,13% of the total population of East Prussia)
1837 - 148,301 (11,49%)
1848 - 150,580 (10,26%)
1871 - 139,450 (7,65%)
1878 - 131,415 (6,91%)
1890 - 121,345 (6,19% of the total population of East Prussia)

Compare this with ca. 200,000 (18,52%) Prussian Lithuanians in late 1810s according to S. Plater.

====

Ethnic structure of the Russian Empire in 1795:

https://s3.postimg.org/4i1a8rjv7/Russian_pop.png

Russian_pop.png


Kabuzan_1.png


Kabuzan_2.png
[/spoiler]

Number of Poles deported by railway from Western Belarus after WW2:

1945 – 135,654
1946 – 136,419
1947 – 2,090
=========
1955 – 10,067
1956 – 30,639
1957 – 46,634
1958 – 13,290

Number of Poles deported by railway from Lithuania after WW2:

1945 – 73,042
1946 – 123,443
1947 – 671
=========
1955 – 5,849
1956 – 17,825
1957 – 16,044
1958 – 6,834

In total 274,163 from Western Belarus (areas which on 01.09.1939 belonged to Poland) and 197,156 from Lithuania in first repatriation (1944-1948) as well as 100,630 from Western Belarus and 46,552 from Lithuania in second repatriation (1955-1959).

However, as Polish geographer and historian - Piotr Eberhardt - noticed in article about ethnic Poles from Belarus:

"According to official data 274,2 thousand Poles came from Western Belarus to Poland [by railway]. But in fact a lot more came. Official data does not include all categories of Polish people who left former eastern Polish territories. During the German occupation many Poles from those Eastern territories were transported to Germany [as compulsory labour workers, prisoners of POW camps, concentration camp inmates, etc.]. They stayed in the West and after WW2 returned directly to Poland within its new borders, not to their former homes. Official data also did not include flights and groups of refugees, people recruited to the Polish Army [including Polish People's Army], as well as those who in 1942 left the Soviet Union with the Army of gen. Anders. After counting all these categories of people we can conclude, that the broadly understood first repatriation from Western Belarus affected over 400 thousand people of Polish nationality, who as the result abandoned forever the territory of Belarus. (…) In further years (1948-1959) remaining Polish population in Belarus experienced considerable natural growth. It was, however, entirely reduced by another repatriation conducted in years 1955-1959, which included around 250,000 [245,501] people permanently leaving the Soviet Union."

What can be added is that official data for first repatriation given above included deportations by railway, in addition to them also deportations by trucks took place – they transported in total 22,815 Poles from the Soviet Union to Poland, but no breakdown is given so we don't know how many of them were from Western Belarus and from Lithuania.

Numbers of Poles deported by railway from Eastern Belarus (pre-1939 Soviet Belarus) are also not included in those figures given above – they are included among Poles deported from „other parts of the Soviet Union”, who amounted to 266,833 in period 1944-1949 and 22,260 more in period 1955-1959 (these numbers also include Poles deported from pre-1939 Soviet Ukraine – while numbers of Poles deported from Western Ukraine were 787,674 in 1944-1948 and 76,059 more in 1955-1959).

The real number of Poles who left Western Belarus in 1944-1959 was therefore over 500,000 (including over 400,000 in 1944-1947) and the number of those who left Lithuania over 250,000 up to 300,000 (including over 200,000 up to 250,000 in 1944-1947).

We don't know how many left or were deported from Eastern Belarus – but according to pre-WW2 official Soviet census of 1926 Polish minority in Soviet Belarus numbered around 100 thousand people at that time (97,500). Add to this natural increase until WW2, and the number was much higher in the 1930s. Another question is how many of them survived Soviet pre-war persecutions (see the Polish Operation of the NKVD in 1937 - 1938) and then WW2. Anyway - according to 1959 census Eastern Belarus had a smaller number of Poles (see below).

Official data for number of Poles deported by railway and trucks – as already explained above - is not the full picture because apart from repatriation there were other ways how Poles from Kresy migrated to Poland after WW2. Already until 01.01.1947 almost 560,000 people who came through ways other than repatriation (including refugees, demobilized soldiers, those who before WW2 lived east of the Curzon Line but who after WW2 came from camps & forced labour in Germany and settled west of the CL, etc.). In total on 1 January 1947 there were 2,05 million „Soviet Poles” in new borders of Poland. And in December 1950 - 2,2 million „Soviet Poles”.

On 1 January 1947 out of those 2,05 million „Soviet Poles” – 1,7 million lived in former German territories (of them around 1,24 million deported by railway and trucks, 190 thousand who came from the west – for example from forced labour in Germany, POW camps, etc. - 200 thousand who were refugees from the Volhynian-Galician Genocide and similar events and around 70 thousand demobilized soldiers, mostly from the Polish People's Army) and 0,35 million in other parts of Poland (here we can estimate that no more than 0,25 million were officially deported and the rest of them were forced labourers returning from Germany, refugees, POWs, etc.).

In December 1950 out of 2,2 million „Soviet Poles” around 1,6 million lived in former German territories (Western Poland) and around 0,6 million in other parts of new Communist Poland (Central Poland). So proportion of those living in Central Poland increased).

Despite all those events – wartime deaths and post-war deportations, flights, emigration, evacuations, etc. of hundreds of thousands of Poles from former Polish territories, after WW2 belonging to the Soviet Union – the official Soviet census of 1959 still counted 1,380,282 Poles in the Soviet Union, with 768,988 of them (so over half of the total number) in Belarusian SSR and Lithuanian SSR.

Even if we go by this official Soviet 1959 census data, which – most probably – underestimated the number of remaining Polish minority in the Soviet Union, the following area had absolute Polish majority, and was still ethnically Polish in 1959, even though less so than before WW2:

Areas still inhabited by ethnic Polish majority as of 1959, after removal of most of ethnic Polish population:

d393f526745778ae.jpg


According to official Soviet Union's 1959 census there were still 538,881 Poles in Belarus, of whom 454,348 (84,3%) were rural population – as flights and deportations of 1944-1959 as well as previous wartime mortality affected urban Poles more than rural Poles.

Number of Poles in Belarus by Oblast according to 1959 census:

In provinces located entirely in what used to be Polish part of Belarus before WW2:

Grodno Oblast – 332,300
Brest Oblast – 42,100

In provinces located mostly in former Polish territory, but partially in Soviet Belarus:

Vitebsk Oblast – 83,800
Minsk Oblast – 64,400

And in provinces located entirely in what was Soviet Belarus before WW2:

Gomel Oblast – 7,200
City Minsk – 5,600
Mogilev Oblast – 3,500

Districts of North-Western Belarus with highest percentages (between 90% and 30%) of Poles according to 1959 census (and there were many more districts in 1959 with between 15% and 30% Poles, but I won't list them here. Many of them had over 50% Poles in 1938):

Radun - 25,842 Poles (87,4%) and 1,705 Belarusians
Voranava – 16,117 Poles (86,8%) and 1,342 Belarusians
Ivyanets – 27,529 Poles (75,6%) and 7,830 Belarusians
Svir – 20,898 Poles (72,0%) and 6,320 Belarusians
Astravyets – 17,966 Poles (65,5%) and 6,831 Belarusians
Lida – 40,117 Poles (55,1%) and 22,048 Belarusians
Vidzy – 9,468 Poles (51,2%) and 5,176 Belarusians
Shchuchyn – 19,032 Poles (50,4%) and 14,781 Belarusians
Vasilishki – 16,496 Poles (49,9%) and 15,648 Belarusians
=================
Pastavy – 18,912 Poles (43,3%) and 17,173 Belarusians
Braslaw – 14,873 Poles (40,6%) and 14,482 Belarusians
=================
Dunilovichi – 13,857 Poles (47,0%) and 14,024 Belarusians
Ivye – 12,877 Poles (41,5%) and 16,552 Belarusians
Grodno – 50,159 Poles (38,1%) and 51,570 Belarusians
Valozhyn – 14,063 Poles (37,8%) and 21,652 Belarusians
Vawkavysk – 21,924 Poles (35,4%) and 32,140 Belarusians
Zelva – 11,175 Poles (29,1%) and 26,001 Belarusians

In total according to 1959 census these 17 districts had 713,988 inhabitants, including 351,305 Poles, 275,275 Belarusians, 66,537 Russians and 20,871 people of other nationalities (including the Romani people and others brought in to replace expelled Poles).

================

According to official Soviet Union's 1959 census there were still 230,107 Poles in Lithuania of whom 161,523 (70,2%) were rural population - as flights and deportations of 1944-1959 as well as previous wartime mortality affected urban Poles more than rural Poles.

Districts with highest percentages of Poles according to 1959 census:

City Vilnius – 47,226 Poles (20,0%) and 79,363 Lithuanians (33,6%)
=================
Vilnius – 64,467 Poles (80,3%) and 5,546 Lithuanians (6,9%)
Salcininkai – 37,182 Poles (85,2%) and 2,918 Lithuanians (6,7%)
=================
Trakai (+ Elektrenai) – 24,332 Poles (43,4%) and 5,103 Lithuanians (9,1%)
Svencionys – 18,158 Poles (45,7%) and 5,901 Lithuanians (14,9%)

In total according to 1959 census these 6 districts had over 455,000 inhabitants, including 191,365 Poles, 98,831 Lithuanians and about 165,000 other people (mostly Russian immigrants, as well as for example the Romani and others brought in to replace expelled Poles).

=========================

In total those 23 districts of Western Belarus and Lithuania according to 1959 census had ca. 1,170,000 inhabitants including - according to official data - ca. 543,000 Poles (or over 70% of all ethnic Poles living in these two Soviet republics at that time), despite previous ethnic cleansing.

All of Belarus and Lithuania had 768,988 ethnic Poles according to official 1959 data - including 615,871 rural people (80,1% of the total) and 153,117 urban people (19,9% of the total) - even though before WW2 ethnic Poles in Belarus and Lithuania were more urbanized than all other ethnic groups living in these regions, with the only exception of Jews. That was because post-war deportations and wartime losses affected ethnic Poles in cities (such as for example Vilnius and Grodno) more heavily than ethnic Poles in the countryside. Due to that expulsion of Poles from cities (and from villages as well, only to a lesser extent) and replacement by other ethnic groups, in 1959 Poles were actually the least urbanized (only 19,9%) of all ethnic groups in Belarus and Lithuania (the opposite of the 1938 situation, when Poles were the 2nd most urbanized group after Jews).

Soviet authorities left a larger % of rural Poles, hoping that Polish peasants were easier to De-Polonize (Lithuanize/Russify/Belarusify).

On the other hand a larger % of urban Poles - with a higher level of national consciousness (sense of Polishness) - got deported.

=============================

Despite this, modern studies carried out recently by the Grodno University and by the Minsk University show that vast majority of Roman Catholics in Belarus identify as Poles and an even larger percent declare Polish ancestry (i.e. some no longer identify as fully Poles, but still declare Polish ancestry).

For research carried out by Grodno University, which shows that 83,3% of Roman Catholics in the Grodno Oblast identify as fully Poles (the rest of Roman Catholics there identify as both Poles and Belarusians or just Belarusians) and even more - because 95% - declare Polish ancestry (including also mixed Polish-Belarusian ancestry) check this source:

l0WhAId.png


In another survey from 2003, as many as 82% of Catholics in Belarus declared that they have Polish ancestry, including 66% with fully Polish ancestry and 16% from mixed families. In the westernmost Diocese of Grodno 95% of Catholics declared Polish ancestry, while in the easternmost Archdiocese of Minsk-Mogilev still as many as 73%.

This 2003 survey found out that 80% of Catholics in the Diocese of Grodno identify as fully Poles - so slightly less than according to that 2000 research by the University of Grodno (which showed 83,3%). In other dioceses percentages of Roman Catholics who identify as fully Polish are 70% in the Diocese of Pinsk, 57% in the Diocese of Vitebsk and just 35% in the Archdiocese of Minsk-Mogilev (compared to 73% who declared Polish ancestry in the Archdiocese of Minsk-Mogilev).

In the nationwide scale (entire Belarus on average), 63% of Roman Catholics identify as fully Poles (2003 data), 66% declare fully Polish ancestry, and 16% declare mixed Polish-Belarusian or Polish-other ancestry (in total 82% declare Polish ancestry). Regional breakdowns above.

There are also a lot of Non-Catholic (Atheist, Orthodox, etc.) Poles in Belarus, because in some regions % of Poles is higher than % of Catholics.

Belarusians are slowly becoming Russians.

In 1959 census only 6,8% of people who declared Belarusian ethnicity declared that Russian is their native language.

By comparison, in 1999 census only 41,3% of people who declare Belarusian ethnicity declared that they speak Belarusian in daily life (among urban population who declare Belarusian ethnicity, only 23% spoke Belarusian in daily life in 1999).

==========================

Below some data illustrating the effects of post-war deportations on ethnic Polish population in the Grodno-Vilna areas of Belarus:

This data is from an article written (in Polish) by a Belarusian from Grodno - Siarhiej Tokć:

http://kamunikat.fontel.net/pdf/bzh/22/03.pdf

Examples from three raions (counties) - Wasiliszki, Wołkowysk and Skidel. If we count these three counties altogether then their total population in 1945-1947 (Skidel in 1947, the other two counties in 1945) was - according to Belarusian data - 124.451 including 60.615 Poles, 61.295 Belarusians, 1.407 Russians and 1.134 others. By 1959 their population was 136.382 including 43.356 Poles, 80.307 Belarusians, 9.637 Russians and 3.082 others. So as we can see the percentage of Russians among the population increased from 1.13% in 1945-1947 to 7.07% in 1959.

In 1945 Poles were an absolute majority in Wasiliszki and Wołkowysk. By 1959 they were still a relative majority (49.2%) only in Wasiliszki:

RQV1rdk.png


National-linguistic and religious structure of North-East Poland in 1931 census (but it is possible that the number of Non-Catholic Poles was inflated, as national identity of those people was "uncertain"):

Kresy1.png

Kresy2.png


Number of Poles in former Kresy according to official census data:

1a+b = North-East Poland ------ 1,663,888 Poles (1931 Polish census)

2 = South-East Poland ---------- 2,249,703 Poles (1931 Polish census)
1.2 = Soviet Belarus ------------ 97,498 Poles (1926 Soviet census)
2.2 = Soviet Ukraine ------------ 476,435 Poles (1926 Soviet census)
1.3 = Lithuania ------------------ 202,026 Poles (1923 elections results)
1.4 = Latvia --------------------- 59,374 Poles (1930 Latvian census)
3 = Soviet Russia --------------- 197,827 Poles (1926 Soviet census)

TOTAL ---------------------------- 5 million people (1926-1931 data)

Kresy.png


Ethnic Poles around 1900-1920:

https://s3.postimg.org/9w5ybn10x/The_Poles_Map.png

The_Poles_Map.png
 
What about genetic comparisons between different Poles? In Lithuania at least, Lithuanian poles look very much the same as Lithuanians, I wonder if genetically they are closer to Baltic or to Slavic peoples?
 
What about genetic comparisons between different Poles? In Lithuania at least, Lithuanian poles look very much the same as Lithuanians, I wonder if genetically they are closer to Baltic or to Slavic peoples?
If so, to Belorussians more than Lithuanians.
 
Very good Hungarian maps about "In-Between Europe" (Köztes-Európa):

http://terkepek.adatbank.transindex.ro

3. Köztes-Európa történelmi tájai:

03.gif


Poles:

9. A lengyel nemzet Köztes-Európában, 1897/1910:

09.gif


Lithuanians:

8. A litván nemzet Köztes-Európában, 1897:

08.gif
 
What about genetic comparisons between different Poles? In Lithuania at least, Lithuanian poles look very much the same as Lithuanians, I wonder if genetically they are closer to Baltic or to Slavic peoples?

Pole from Northern Belarus and Polish Livonia, lives in Poland (family resettled after WW2):

GEDmatch kit - M084406

Eurogenes K36 results:

Central_Euro 6.22
East_Balkan 7.65
East_Central_Euro 30.42
Eastern_Euro 18.13
Fennoscandian 16.44
French 1.88
Iberian 6.89
Italian 2.46
North_Atlantic 2.25
North_Sea 7.61

Genetic similarity rates on map in Eurogenes K36 (note the 88% similarity to Latvians):

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm

wY6gSe5.png


He has ancestry from what is today Northern Belarus and Southern Latvia:

luLrkpU.png


He has N1c haplogroup and scores 86% "North Slavic" in DNA Land:

ToizhzM.png


Polish-Latvian border dispute 1919-1939:

https://latvianhistory.com/2014/09/10/latvian-polish-border-dispute-1919-1939/

For comparison, here is an ethnic Belarusian in DNA Land:

image.png


"North Slavic" category in DNA.Land includes also Balts, not just Slavs.
 
Wow very consistent thread Tomenable. Baltic is a young " cultural state " even if it has a long and sometimes glorious history. The elitism of Polish in Poland-Lituania and the Russian / Communist Imperialism, create a high feel of secession in lituanians, who could becomed a minority in is own country if URSS would not implose. I hope that peripheric slavs and balts, gonna understand their past and understand that they will be more strong if working together, than create some minority communautarism, like Poles in Lituania or Russians in Estonia. By the way, why is there an H in Lithuania ? I fought this letter was completely absent of Lituanian.
 
Wow very consistent thread Tomenable. Baltic is a young " cultural state " even if it has a long and sometimes glorious history. The elitism of Polish in Poland-Lituania and the Russian / Communist Imperialism, create a high feel of secession in lituanians, who could becomed a minority in is own country if URSS would not implose. I hope that peripheric slavs and balts, gonna understand their past and understand that they will be more strong if working together, than create some minority communautarism, like Poles in Lituania or Russians in Estonia. By the way, why is there an H in Lithuania ? I fought this letter was completely absent of Lituanian.
Lithuania is Lietuva ("lietus" - rain) H is used in foreign word in the Lithuanian language
 
Very informative. I laughed at the Poles being darker than believed comment. Some people don't believe my Polish relatives are Polish because they're "dark".



However, I sort of question the diaspora accuracy. It is, in a way, based on the "obviousness" (e.g. churches, records, etc.).

Where I live in Canada, for example, there "was" a large Polish community. I put was in quotes because the average, predominantly of Germanic ancestry, person around here doesn't know it still exists to degree. It is possibly due to the fact the younger generation isn't so religious (local history recounts the Poles going to church) that the Polish community isn't so blatantly obvious as some 40-60 odd years ago.

But if you questioned a local they'd tell you of the Ukrainians & likely some would only know because there's a Ukrainian Church.

I'd know. I'm not from around here & the only way I learnt the Polish community still existed was because I kept running into a pair (brother/sister) around town with obvious Polish names/surname, not quite "Canadian" enough accent, and eventually asked her outright (in Polish) were they from Poland. No, Canadian-born but everyone in family speaks Polish hence the "odd" Canadian accent. On the reverse there's Poland-born Poles here with very Canadian accents, very "Canadian" manners, etc. (integrated well) but if you phoned the house there'd be some very thick Polish accents that "greet" you.
 
Sorry for joining the discussion so late. I have designed the map of proposed genetic divisions for the Living DNA Polish Project. I did not notice this thread before. Tomenable, what do you think about my proposed divisons? I did not list the Cuiavians or Kresowiaks, but I subdivided Upper and Lower Silesians (because of the higher German influence in the latter), and Masuria vs Mazovia. I added a category for Lubusz (former Brandenburg) as it did not fit elsewhere and might have higher German influence. I also think that Red Ruthenia might be distinct due to the historical Ukrainian presence. Of course we will see if the genetic clusters match those regions and the map will be redrawn based on the actual results.

I would encourage all of the Polish members who have already tested with Living DNA or another company to upload their genome to the project. If some of you haven't tested yet, you can get a discounted price on the Living DNA test if you qualify for the project (all 4 of your grand-parents must be from the same region).
 
I would encourage all of the Polish members who have already tested with Living DNA or another company to upload their genome to the project. If some of you haven't tested yet, you can get a discounted price on the Living DNA test if you qualify for the project (all 4 of your grand-parents must be from the same region).

I can certainly tell some friends/family as I am not entirely Polish. However, there is no Jewish category for Living DNA is there?
 
I can certainly tell some friends/family as I am not entirely Polish. However, there is no Jewish category for Living DNA is there?

The Middle East project should appear soon in the list. There is a category for Israel, which includes all Jews. Jewish participants should mention more details about their country of origins.
 
Sorry for joining the discussion so late. I have designed the map of proposed genetic divisions for the Living DNA Polish Project. I did not notice this thread before. Tomenable, what do you think about my proposed divisons? I did not list the Cuiavians or Kresowiaks, but I subdivided Upper and Lower Silesians (because of the higher German influence in the latter), and Masuria vs Mazovia. I added a category for Lubusz (former Brandenburg) as it did not fit elsewhere and might have higher German influence. I also think that Red Ruthenia might be distinct due to the historical Ukrainian presence. Of course we will see if the genetic clusters match those regions and the map will be redrawn based on the actual results.

I would encourage all of the Polish members who have already tested with Living DNA or another company to upload their genome to the project. If some of you haven't tested yet, you can get a discounted price on the Living DNA test if you qualify for the project (all 4 of your grand-parents must be from the same region).

Maciamo... Masuria is what is this west division of "your" North Masovia. After cutting this, eastern part of you can call Podlachia & East Masovia.
What was formerly Masuria could be East-Prussia.
Central Poland is shorter for Sieradzko_Leczyckie or Lodz region. It wasn't Lesser Poland historically, always some borderline between other regions.
Kashubia has Gdansk region and Slovinian region.
I propose "your" northern Great Poland subdivide to Cuiavian_Pomeranian.
Also southern Lessser Poland is Carpathian / Goral region, quite different than what is north of Vistula. Also on the west Silesia doesn't have whole Żywieckie.

poland.png
 
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