Immigration Sweden or how to destroy a country through poor immigration policy

[Maciamo]

The 'Muslim crime scare' is a MYTH

This is the real data of my country Spain, where Moroccans (africans) are blamed constantly for crime.

Because nationalization of Moroccans is more difficult and lengthy that for Hispanoamericans and Eastern Europeans, this is an accurate depiction, so don't try to bring the "what about all the nationalized" because it won't work.

We have all crimes ('delitos')
View attachment 16047
Here's aggravated murder, only 5 in 2022
View attachment 16048

And finally, the horrendously libelous and racist PANIC about rapes by Arab/Islamic migrants.
View attachment 16049

These ideas about a "Muslim crime wave" are totally false and the product of a constant misinformation campaign from the European far-right that is believed acritically by many.

And gets particularly inhumane when we're blaming the Syrian and Iraqi refugee caravans and calling them "invaders".

It is the product of specifically reporting crime only when and where is Muslim.

I invite you to do the same research for your country and post it here.

Celtion already gave a good reply to your post, explaining that Moroccans in Spain are 5 to 6 times more likely to commit a crime than ethnic Spaniards.

I tried to find similar statistics for France and Belgium but couldn't as the government is protecting Muslims by not publishing crime statistics that include ethnicity, religion or even country of birth. Nevertheless I could find from a variety of sources that between 50 and 70% of prisoners in France are Muslim. That gives a pretty good idea of how disproportionate their impact is on the overall criminality in France. Ethnic or religious statistics are prohibited in France, so journalists have to resort to estimates based on other indicators.

For example this article from BFM TV, a major French news channel, explains that the director of a prison in the Parisian region estimated in 2015 that 60% of the prisoners in his prison were (practising) Muslims based on the special meals for the Ramadan. Of course, not all people with a Muslim background in France are practising Muslims. France is one of the most secular countries on Earth. According to a Gallup poll from 2006 to 2011, 74% of people in France were not religious. That must include a lot of immigrants too as French schools try hard to inculcate secular values in children. So the percentage of prisoners who actually hailed from Muslim countries is probably higher than 60% in this prison's case, as not all of them will be religious enough to go through Ramadan while in jail.

Journalists from the Washington Posts wrote a special report on prisons in France in 2008. They write:

As a matter of policy, the French government does not collect data on race, religion or ethnicity on its citizens in any capacity, making it difficult to obtain precise figures on the makeup of prison populations. But demographers, sociologists and Muslim leaders have compiled generally accepted estimates showing Muslim inmate populations nationwide averaging between 60 and 70 percent.

Yet Muslims only make up 6% of the French population. That means that Muslims in France are 10 to 11 times more likely to commit serious crimes deserving of hard prison sentences than non-Muslims of any ethnic background (French, EU citizens, immigrants or refugees from any non-Muslim country).

I intentionally excluded sources from French far-right web sites like Boulevard Voltaire and stuck to more moderate mainstream media.

Muslims represent such a big part of the inmates in prison that university researchers James A. Beckford, Danièle Joly, Farhad Khosrokhavar published a whole book on the subject of Muslims in prisons in Britain and France (also available in French). Part of it is available for free on Google Books (in links). On page 84 they mention that 60% of the prison population in France are Muslim. The book was first published in 2005, so it's possible and indeed very likely that the percentage is higher now. The data did not yet include the nearly three thousands Muslims arrested during the French riots of October and November 2005. There were over 30 terrorist attacks or stabbings committed by Muslims across France from 2007 to 2023. In fact the vast majority of these attacks were committed by Muslims. In France it's extremely rare when the attacker(s) isn't/aren't Muslim.

EDIT: France does not publish crime data by nationality or ethnic origin, but it's possible to get a reasonable estimate. I asked ChatGPT what percentage of Muslims in France were of Maghrebi origin and it is between 70 and 75%.

Using demographic statistics, I found that there are between 3 and 4 million people of Maghrebi origin who became French citizens. As of 2011 there were 3.8 million Moroccan, Algerian and Tunisian nationals in France. The two groups add up to over 7 million, which is much more than the highest estimates I have seen for the total number of Muslims in France.

So at least three quarters of the Muslims in French prison are presumably from the Maghreb, but it could be much more.

Here are the percentage of immigrants in France from predominantly Muslim countries based on birth statistics for 2010:

Nationality	Percentage (2011)	Percentage of all Muslim immigrants in France
Algeria	3.47%	32.58%
Morocco	3.45%	32.39%
Tunisia	1.32%	12.39%
Turkey	1.25%	11.74%
Mali	0.48%	4.51%
Egypt	0.12%	1.13%
Lebanon	0.12%	1.13%
Mauritania	0.10%	0.94%
Pakistan	0.10%	0.94%
Syria	0.06%	0.56%
Nigeria	0.04%	0.38%
Iran	0.04%	0.38%
Bangladesh	0.03%	0.28%
Chad	0.03%	0.28%
Iraq	0.02%	0.19%
Niger	0.02%	0.19%
Total	10.65%	100.00%

Using these more detailed statistics, we get 77% of foreigners in France from Muslim countries who are of Maghrebi origin. But if we also include the 3.5 million French citizens of Maghrebi origin, that the total percentage of Muslim of Maghrebi origin in France is considerably higher. Unfortunately it's hard to estimate as many naturalised citizens could also have kept their citizenship of origin, as France and Maghreb countries allow dual citizenship. Let's calculate the two extreme scenarios. If 100% of Maghrebi who acquired French citizenship kept their citizenship of birth, then the data doesn't change (about 77% of Muslims in France hail from the Maghreb). If on the other hand 0% of them kept their birth citizenship after being naturalised (very unlikely), then we have to add 3.5 million Muslims to the c. 6.5 million non-French Muslims in France. That would be 10 millions Muslims in France, including 5 million Moroccans, Algerians and Tunisians and 3.5 million French of Maghrebi origin. In other words 85% of all Muslims from be of Maghrebi origin. So the possible range is between 77% and 85%.

 

[Maciamo]

Even though I could not find the data for Belgium, the official crime statistics by nationality are available for the Netherlands. They analysed the propensity of each of the main nationalities present in the Netherlands to commit crimes. Their conclusion is that The people most likely to commit crimes in the country are Moroccans (as well as Antilleans, but who are far less numerous).

Here is a translation of their conclusions.

"People with a Moroccan or Antillean background are six times more likely to be suspected than people with a Dutch background. People with a Turkish and Surinamese background are registered as suspects about as often as people from origin groups with a high percentage of refugees. The percentage of suspects from new EU member states and other persons with a Western background is lower than the groups mentioned above but higher than that of persons with a Dutch background."

As of 2022 there were 419,272 Moroccan people in the Netherlands (2.38% of the population). In 2015 DutchNews reported that nearly 11% – or 4,600 – of inmates in Dutch prisons had a Moroccan background. In other words Moroccans are five times overrepresented in Dutch prisons compared to their proportion in the population.

 

[Mmiikkii]

the director of a prison in the Parisian region estimated in 2015 that 60% of the prisoners in his prison were (practising) Muslims based on the special meals for the Ramadan.

Uufff, these kind of claims by officials...

In Spain we also have people that say things like "we no longer detain Spanish, it's all Muslim foreigners now".
Yet, we know it's garbage, I just showed Africans are 8% of crime (they're like 6% of youth).


And even if they're overrepresented, why suddenly when they do it, it becomes such a big problem?
Eastern Europe is worse, the Americas is hell...

 

[Maciamo]

There is a whole Wikipedia article on immigration and crime in Germany.

Here is the section relevant to immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers from Muslim countries.

"The first quarter 2019 BKA report stated that no other group is as strongly overrepresented as crime suspects in Germany as asylum seekers, refugees and individuals without residency who cannot be deported (German: Geduldete). This group numbers about 1.6 million people and the great majority arrived in 2015 and later. They represent 2% of the population in Germany but 11% of suspects in cases of grievous bodily harm, 15% of suspects in cases of deadly violence and 12% of suspects in cases of rape and sexual assault. This was attributed by criminologists to the subgroup consisting of men aged 16–29 is disproportionately large at 34% of the total and that young males are overrepresented as criminals in all parts of the world, rather than to their ethnic origin. Also, the young male immigrants also have high unemployment, low education and experiences of violence, factors which are associated with higher crime rates also among Germans. Therefore, left-leaning criminologists like Professor Thomas Feltes at Bochum University argue that culture does not play a role. The BKA report shows that in the group, there are significant different among subgroups of different origin, where refugees from Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria are less overrepresented than migrants from North African states Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia along with sub-Saharan countries Gambia, Nigeria and Somalia. Criminologist Christian Pfeiffer attributes this to a "macho culture" in North Africa which carries with it an increased readiness to use violence."


Let's read this again: Asylum seekers, refugees and individuals without residency represent 2% of the German population but are responsible for 11% of suspects in cases of grievous bodily harm, 15% of suspects in cases of deadly violence and 12% of suspects in cases of rape and sexual assault. These are mostly people of Afghan, Iraqi and Syrian origin. Their propensity to commit crimes in Germany is 5.5 to 7.5 higher than the rest of the population.

Nevertheless the BKA report concludes that these Afghan, Iraqi and Syrian refugees are less overrepresented than Maghrebins, Gambians, Nigerians and Somali! In other words immigrants from these Muslim African countries have a propensity to commit crime even higher than that. Muslims in France are 10 to 11 times overrepresented for serious crimes and most Muslims in France are Maghrebins. So we could expect a similar overrepresentation in Germany (anyway higher than the 7.5x of Afghans, Iraqi and Syrians).

The statistics posted above about Sweden confirmed that Somali people are more likely to commit crimes than Afghans, Iraqi and Syrians (4.7 vs 3.3 times higher), but in both cases they seem to commit proportionally less crimes than in Germany.


EDIT: You can find the German Police Crime Statistics (aka BKA report) here. Wikipedia quoted data for 2019, but there are reports every year and the latest is for 2023 (the full report hasn't been published yet, but the raw data tables are available). Here is the data from the last two full report available (2019 and 2020).

2019 data

2020 data

As you can see, the top 10 nationalities of suspected criminals are all from Muslim countries, except for Serbia which ranked 10th in 2019. Moroccans and Algerians, who each make up only 0.3% of the German population, much less than Turks (3.4%), Syrians (1.46%), or even Afghans (0.52%) and Iraqi (0.47%), are among the top offenders for robberies and thefts. In 2020 Algerians committed more thefts in Germany than any other nationality except Syrians, who are 5 times more numerous. Algerians committed 3641 crimes in 2020, almost as much as the Turks who are 11 times more numerous!

 

[Maciamo]

And even if they're overrepresented, why suddenly when they do it, it becomes such a big problem?
Eastern Europe is worse, the Americas is hell...

There is nothing sudden about this problem. If you search older the post on this forum you will see that I've been complaining about it for nearly 20 years.

What do you mean by Eastern Europe is worse? What is Eastern Europe for you? Estonia, Russia, Hungary, Albania? These are all very different countries.

I know that crime is a bigger issue in the US than in Europe, and once again I have written a lot about it on this forum over the years. On the other hand I have not been complaining much about Muslims in the last few years, even though this forum is more about Europe and I live in Europe. I used to do it much more at the time of the French riots in the banlieues and the major terrorist attacks between 2005 and 2017.

 

[Maciamo]

Denmark has very detailed crime statistics by nationality reported in a long article about the effects of immigration in Denmark.

This table summarises well the propensity of committing crimes (conviction rate compared to Danish citizens) for each nationality over an 11 year period. Countries in red are from the Middle East and North Africa.

 

[Stuvanè]

I don't really see Islam as sucha big problem yet. If there are going to be civil wars then i highly doubt there is going to be a significant islamic faction. More likely it would be different political positions.

I think in many western countries societies have changed in a bad way and it's not just the massive immigration some countries are facing. We are way too liberal. That together with democracy won't go well.

Gourd,

If we talk about faction - understood as a group in conscious opposition to others -, evidently nothing official or defined exists yet. Material so that it can soon materialize, yes, without forgetting that we work on approximate numbers by default and that the press and communication bodies sugarcoat or hide the issue, assigning some pimpy labels to that poorly or not at all integrated population who become supporters of crimes. In Italy they use "2nd generation Italians", and at that point the native Italians have learned to smell a rat).

The baby gangs that rage on the outskirts of large urban centers or within them increasingly have a precise ethnic connotation, and the most active here in Italy are frequently young North Africans (the only equally dangerous ones with whom they come into conflict are those of South American origin, who however don't enjoy the same sympathy from the radical chic crowd).

Here in Italy, the official data on the prison population, both in terms of proportions compared to Italian criminals and in terms of the countries of origin (with a prevalent or significant Islamic presence), make the picture very eloquent

https://www.giustizia.it/giustizia/it/mg_1_14_1.page?contentId=SST466343
https://www.giustizia.it/giustizia/it/mg_1_14_1.page?contentId=SST466352

Does this mean that all Muslims are criminals? Certainly not, but there is a too strong and undeniable correlation between the cultural humus of that type and the possibility of having a significant pocket of violence and illegality in front of us. Which must be limited or eliminated, under penalty of social metastasis with very dangerous outcomes.
But the feeling is that European governments are playing with a bomb in their hands, either out of stupidity or inability or collusion.

 

[Maciamo]

I found this research article from American Law and Economics Association: Does Immigration Cause Crime? Evidence from Spain

The paper is 27 pages long. It has this interesting table on the homicide rates by nationality in Spain vs in their country of origin. Algerians have by far the highest homicide rate of any nationalities reported, but what really caught my attention is the huge difference with how they behave in Algeria itself. Algerians in Spain commit 58 times more murders than in Algeria! The same is true for Moroccans, whose homicide rate is 61.6 times higher in Spain than in Morocco (NB: I recalculated the proportion as it was slightly erroneous in the ratio A/B in the table below). The question is why? The living conditions, social security, etc. are all better in Spain. It's not inevitable among poorer immigrants either. Colombians and Ecuadorians are better behaved in Spain than in their home country.

EDIT: The data above is an average for the period 2000-2006, but doesn't give the overall homicide rate in Spain. So I calculated it based on the figures I found here. The average homicide rate for 2000-2006 is 1.28. This means that Algerians are 77 times (98.7/1.28) and Moroccans are 24 times (30.5/1.28) more likely to murder someone in Spain than the average person in the country! In the case of Algerians that must be the biggest overrepresentation for any nationality in any European country!

 

[Maciamo]

It seems that Italy also doesn't publish crime statistics by nationality or ethnic origin, like Spain, France and Belgium. Nevertheless I found a paper on Islam in Italian prisons, which gives the following statistics. In 2016 there were 3,146 Moroccans, 1,996 Tunisians, and 403 Algerians in Italian prisons. That's 5,545 Maghrebi in total. The total prison population of Italy in 2016 was 54,653. So Maghrebi make up 10.1% of Italy's prison population. That may not seem much compared to France, but that's because there are far fewer Maghrebi in Italy. At least Italy has detailed immigration statistics by nationality. In 2016 the population of Italy was 60.63 million, and there were 437,485 Moroccans, 95,645 Tunisians and 21,765 Algerians in the country (a total of 554,895 Maghrebi). Now let's put all this data into a table and calculate how overrepresented Maghrebi are in the prison population.

Nationality	Inmates (2016)	Residents in Italy (2016)	% of population	% of inmates	Overrepresentation of inmates
Morocco	3,146	437,485	0.72%	5.76%	7.98x
Algeria	403	21,765	0.04%	0.74%	20.54x
Tunisia	1,996	95,645	0.16%	3.65%	23.15x
Total Maghrebi	5,545	554,895	0.92%	10.15%	11.09x
Total in Italy	54,653	60630000

It turns out that Maghrebi are 11 times more likely to commit serious crimes and end up in prison than the rest of the Italian population (other foreigners included too). That's about the same as in France. However it is especially Tunisians and Algerians who commit proportionally more crimes in Italy, nearly 3 times more than Moroccans!

 

[kingjohn]

It seems that Italy also doesn't publish crime statistics by nationality or ethnic origin, like Spain, France and Belgium. Nevertheless I found a paper on Islam in Italian prisons, which gives the following statistics. In 2016 there were 3,146 Moroccans, 1,996 Tunisians, and 403 Algerians in Italian prisons. That's 5,545 Maghrebi in total. The total prison population of Italy in 2016 was 54,653. So Maghrebi make up 10.1% of Italy's prison population. That may not seem much compared to France, but that's because there are far fewer Maghrebi in Italy. At least Italy has detailed immigration statistics by nationality. In 2016 the population of Italy was 60.63 million, and there were 437,485 Moroccans, 95,645 Tunisians and 21,765 Algerians in the country (a total of 554,895 Maghrebi). Now let's put all this data into a table and calculate how overrepresented Maghrebi are in the prison population.

Nationality	Inmates (2016)	Residents in Italy (2016)	% of population	% of inmates	Overrepresentation of inmates
Morocco	3,146	437,485	0.72%	5.76%	7.98x
Algeria	403	21,765	0.04%	0.74%	20.54x
Tunisia	1,996	95,645	0.16%	3.65%	23.15x
Total Maghrebi	5,545	554,895	0.92%	10.15%	11.09x
Total in Italy	54,653	60630000

It turns out that Maghrebi are 11 times more likely to commit serious crimes and end up in prison than the rest of the Italian population (other foreigners included too). That's about the same as in France. However it is especially Tunisians and Algerians who commit proportionally more crimes in Italy, nearly 3 times more than Moroccans!

when i was in france many many years ago i was robed by a french algerian muslim
i nearly made it home parents had to send me money
i know there nature believe me

 

[Maciamo]

I have split the discussion about Palestinian refugees in Denmark and the subsequent debate about Palestinian refugees in the Middle East.

 

[Maciamo]

The stats I posted above about Germany was only for immigrant suspects arrested for a limited crimes (robberies, thefts, bodily harm, fraud, drug offenses), but did not include homicides, rapes or kidnapping. Unfortunately the German Police report does not give the figures by nationality for these crimes, nor does it give the conviction rate for arrested suspects. This article from 2019 gives an estimate of the percentage of Muslims in German prisons, which is therefore only for convictions (not just suspects) primarily for serious crimes.

German authorities are also reporting an increase in the number of Muslims in German prisons. The proportion of Muslims in German prisons is now significantly higher than their share of the total population.

With the recent mass influx of migrants, the Muslim population of Germany now numbers around six million, or 7% of Germany's overall population of 82 million. By contrast, roughly 20% of the 65,000 inmates in the German prison system are Muslim, according to data collected from regional justice ministries.

Muslim comprise 29% of the inmates in Bremen; 28% in Hamburg; 27% in Hesse (although in some prisons there, 40% of all inmates attend Friday prayers); 26% in Baden-Württemberg; 21% in North Rhine-Westphalia; 20% in Berlin; and 18% in Bavaria.

They do not give details about which nationalities are the most overrepresented, but overall Muslims are about 3 times more likely to end up in jail than the overall German population. It's considerably less than in France. The reason is probably because most Muslims in Germany are Turks who tend to be better behaved than Maghrebins.

While searching for the percentages of Muslims in German prisons, I stumbled across this article about Muslims in American prisons.

Muslims make up about 9% of state prisoners, though they are only about 1% of the U.S. population, a new report from the civil rights organization Muslim Advocates finds.

That overrepresentation of Muslim inmates is almost as bad as in France (10.5 times their population share), so this phenomenon is not limited to Western and Northern Europe.

What is remarkable in the United States is that a very small Muslim population diluted across the huge country (not concentrated in poor banlieues or ghettos like in big European cities) still manages to get nine times the incarceration rate of the average American in a country known for its endemic violence, high murder rate and huge prison population. That's quite an achievement.

In contrast 37% of inmates in US prisons are African Americans. As they makeup 13% of the overall U.S. population, there are 2.8 times more likely than average to be incarcerated than average. But for Muslim cities 9 times. In other words, Muslims in the U.S. are over three times more likely to be convicted of crimes and end up in jail than African Americans!

What's more, most Muslims in America are relatively recent immigrants (from the last 25 years) and the immigration process is considerably stricter than in many European countries. It's also nearly impossible for Muslims to come as illegal immigrants to the U.S. Unlike in Europe they cannot come on foot. Illegal immigrants to the US are mostly from Latin America. So despite strict vetting and a generally unwelcoming attitude of the US toward Muslim countries, those who manage to be accepted into the country still end up committing nine times more serious crimes than the average (and probably gun-owning) American. That says a lot.

Another element to take into consideration is police profiling. While it is true that Black Americans are more likely to be arrested and maybe also wrongfully accused, it is unlikely to be the case for Muslims in America. The reason is that the majority of Middle Eastern immigrants to the US are Christians, so Muslim Middle Easterners maybe taken for Christians. Another sizable percentage of Muslims in the US are from South Asia (Pakistan, India and Bangladesh), but the majority of South Asians in the U.S. are Hindu Indians, and I doubt that the average American can tell the difference between them.

 

[norbert]

I'm sure the majority of the Muslims in US prisons are African-American converts.

 

[Maciamo]

I'm sure the majority of the Muslims in US prisons are African-American converts.

You may be right. The idea of converting to a religion is so alien to me that it didn't even cross my mind that they could do that.

I found this article on Wikipedia about Conversion to Islam in U.S. prisons. Here they say that the percentage of Muslims in US prisons is 18% in 2003, twice more than the other article claimed. The Wikipedia article says:

According to a 2003 estimate by FBI, there are 350,000 Muslims in federal, state and local prison, about 30,000 – 40,000 more being converted every year.

If that rhythm of conversion was sustained then there would have been 700,000 new Muslims in U.S. prisons over the last 20 years. With the 350,000 Muslims already in prison in 2003 the total would exceed 1 million now for a total prison population of about 2 million. Of course not all prisoners stay that long in prison, but nevertheless the percentage of Muslims is surely much higher than 18% today.

 

[norbert]

Only criminals and the weak-minded convert to Islam. There was a fad among blacks in the 1950s and 60s to renounce their "slave names and religion." Little did they know that Muslim Arabs enslaved black Africans way before Christian Europeans did. Not only that but the Arabs also committed a genocide against them by castrating the males. It is estimated that 6 in 10 males bled to death during the procedure alone. Uprisings like the Zanj Rebellion of 869 were brutally crushed. Islam came to Africa by conquest and enslavement just like Christianity. It was always cringeworthy that some people believed that Islam is some kind of anti-imperialist religion.