Teal people found: Caucasians!

Tomenable said:


Uhm... , these are deserts, semi-deserts or arid plains rather than places full of long and juicy grass, which is ideal for horses.


OK I give up. Every fu... I mean every living thing migrated from the Iranian Plateau !!! :)

Are you happy now that you are the cradle of everything? But together with Sub-Saharan Africa. The two greatest regions.
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Few thousand years ago Arabia and Iranian Plateau was much GREENER! Never heard of desertification of the Middle East??


Please try to educate yourself somehow and after 10 years come back with stronger argumentation. This is not funny anymore, there is lots of differences between us in knowledge. Because you are very ignorant about the world we are living in.
 
Goga said:
Never heard of desertification of the Middle East??
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I've heard of it but I thought that you people made Mesopotamia etc. green by expanding man-made irrigation.

So it seems your ancestors were lazier than I though, if that land was already green when they settled. :p
Goga said:
Because you are very ignorant about the world we are living in.
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I thought we were talking about the world PIEs were living in thousands of years ago, not about the world we are living in.

Perhaps the reason why we can't come to an agreement is because I'm talking about the past and you about the present? :innocent:
 
holderlin said:
I guess I will waste some time to inform you, if you're a real person, which is hard for me to believe, that Yamnaya is descended from DnieperDonets/Samara->Khvalysnk/StrednyStog. The denial is getting absurd. The genetics supports this as well, quite clearly.
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LMAO, the Kurgans in Yamnaya show strong similarities with older Kurgans in Maykop. Yamnaya was heavily influenced culturally, archeologically and genetically by Maykop culture.


I will enjoy to hear you singing a different tune when they come with R1b from Maykop.


Once again, SAMARA? Hahaha, you made me laugh today after a long Sunday-working. Thank you for that!
 
Goga said:
BINGO!


Actually, West Asian auDNA is spread all over the world. From Africa into India and even as far as China. It's the most widespread auDNA in our reality. And now they found out that CHG has to be native somewhere around the Caucasus. So, auDNA science supports that West Asian auDNA is the most influential one

How old is R1b in Africa, the most distant
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You can't be for real. Seriously. You're too perfectly designed to piss people off.
 
holderlin said:
if Maykop is the home of these elusive all teal R1a and R1b dudes then I might have to revise my opinion.
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I'm also open to changing my opinion if some new aDNA shows up.

There is a Polish saying that "only cows do not change their minds".

I'm going to add: "and also these who first domesticated them". :grin:
 
Goga said:
LMAO, the Kurgans in Yamnaya show strong similarities with older Kurgans in Maykop. Yamnaya was heavily influenced culturally, archeologically and genetically by Maykop culture.


I will enjoy to hear you singing a different tune when they come with R1b from Maykop.


Once again, SAMARA? Hahaha, you made me laugh today after a long Sunday-working. Thank you for that!
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Caucuses is a late arrival on the steppe bro, you don't see evidence until Yamnaya or related layers. You know why? Because at this stage IE's had likely undergone significant expansion and linguistic differentiation. In other words Yamnaya are likely downstream of the true PIE speakers.

It's amazing people actually respond to you
 
And Indo-Iranian speakers have absolutely nothing to do with Sumerians. This is one thing I'm sure of.
 
Samara burials are Kurgans

Maykop "Kurgans" do not predate those on the steppe.

Everyone. This is false. Yet for some reason people prate it on these forums as if it's a widely accepted consensus. Again, it is quite false. Please stop saying it.
 
holderlin said:
Caucuses is a late arrival on the steppe bro, you don't see evidence until Yamnaya or related layers. You know why? Because at this stage IE's had likely undergone significant expansion and linguistic differentiation. In other words Yamnaya are likely downstream of the true PIE speakers.

It's amazing people actually respond to you
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Oh, not once again! Indo-Europeans in Europe came from Yamnaya and not Samara, lol! Those Indo-Europeans who came from Yamnaya invaded Europe and yeah, by horses, lol.


To be honest, do you know why you have difficulties to argue with me? Because your education and knowledge is average, maybe below average and because my IQ is between 128-134 points (more than average). I don't think you have higher IQ.


It is very difficult to fool people with higher IQ and more knowledge/education...


I'm a raver, can't you see
Do you wanna rave all night with me?
I wanna dance until the sun goes down
Dance until the world goes round and round!

 
Goga said:
my IQ is between 128-134 points (more than average). I don't think you have higher IQ.

It is very difficult to fool people with higher IQ and more knowledge/education...
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There is a cure for your condition, though:

 
Let's better come back to discussing Teal people.

How and when did those genes (or peoples) enter the steppe.

To me it looks like a steady gene flow, not like some rapid immigration.

1) Samara HG sample (5650-5555 BC) had ~0% Teal admixture,
2) Khvalynsk samples (4700-4000 BC) had ~25% Teal admixture,
3) Yamnaya_Samara (3340-2620 BC) had ~48% Teal admixture,

Between 1) and 2) there were 1250 years, between 2) and 3) some 1370 years.

This means that Teal admixture was increasing by 1% every 50-60 years.

So it was increasing by 0,5% every single generation (on average).

This looks like a steady gene flow, if it was indeed such a "fluent" process.

======================

By the way, we now treat EHGs as the "receiving end" of Teal admixture.

But what if that gene flow was not one-sided, but mutual (bride exchanging ???).

I wonder, if there was EHG admixture in Caucasus (or wherever "Teal" people lived).

Maybe at the same time when EHG became 48% "Teal", Teal became some % "EHG" ???
 
Seriously. If PIE are Teals from the Iranian plateau, who imposed their culture on the steppe using farming platoons of BMAC originated R1b and R1a guys with no EHG, then surely the first evidence of Teal on the Steppe should be an all or mostly Teal R1b/R1a guy right?
 
Sumerian PIEs lulz

If anyone thinks that Samara as PIEs is crazier than Sumerian PIEs, please let me know.
 
holderlin said:
Seriously. If PIE are Teals from the Iranian plateau, who imposed their culture on the steppe using farming platoons of BMAC originated R1b and R1a guys with no EHG, then surely the first evidence of Teal on the Steppe should be an all or mostly Teal R1b/R1a guy right?
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G1 was found in great numbers in central asia
 
holderlin said:
Caucuses is a late arrival on the steppe bro, you don't see evidence until Yamnaya or related layers. You know why? Because at this stage IE's had likely undergone significant expansion and linguistic differentiation. In other words Yamnaya are likely downstream of the true PIE speakers.

It's amazing people actually respond to you
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There where other haplogroups in the south and north cuacasus areas prior to R1 getting there
 
Can we please bring these discussions somewhat back on topic?

Holderlin: Samara burials are Kurgans

Maykop "Kurgans" do not predate those on the steppe.

Everyone. This is false. Yet for some reason people prate it on these forums as if it's a widely accepted consensus. Again, it is quite false. Please stop saying it
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.

It all depends how you define a kurgan, doesn't it, and what kind of testing you use?

https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/radiocarbon/article/view/16087
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2014/12/pit-grave-yamnaya-kurgans-are-as-old-as.html
The analysis of the paper is incorrect. The correct interpretation can be found in the comments section.

For the opposite point of view, that every "elite" burial, even if it's just a hole dug in a hill is a kurgan, see:
https://www.academia.edu/1870168/Ra...n_de_l_Orient_et_la_Méditerranée_Lyon_293-306

Tomenable: I'm not sure why do you consider Yamnaya as the "original Indoeuropeans". That culture was not the first stage of PIE, but the last one
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.

This isn't the first time we've discussed this issue. It all depends on how you are defining the term "Indo-Europeans", doesn't it? I was talking about the "Indo-European" culture which developed on the steppe per Anthony and Mallory in the period from about 4200 BC to 3000 BC. after they had adopted animal herding, agriculture, copper metallurgy etc. as the lexicon of their language would indicate.

The people to the north of them, who developed into the Corded Ware people, were not "Indo-Europeans" in that cultural sense even if they were related to them genetically. Certainly the forest steppe people didn't possess any of the hallmarks of that culture.

If you push the definition back in time to include fisher hunters living in some yurt or cave without any of those developments then the term loses all meaning, in my opinion.

These hunters contributed their genes to the "Indo-Europeans", but they were not yet Indo-Europeans. At least that's how I see it.

I also must ask, have you lost your sense of irony, Tomenable? All of your many posts could be interpreted to be an attempt to prove that the Indo-Europeans were "pure" EHG whose closest living descendants, and therefore the inheritors of their "glory", such as it is, are the Balto-Slavs. Of course, there's that bothersome "teal" component, but apparently if it was acquired through wife stealing it's acceptable, but if some R1b "teal" men brought it, it's not. Do I have that right?

Perhaps it would be more correct to say that a lot of people interested in and discussing this topic are influenced by some sort of "ethnic" agenda.

More worrisome for me is the fact that posters seem to be claiming as an authority on matters anthropological a notorious racist of who knows what academic background, if any, (is he in prison, btw?) and proudly claiming as well an eight year long association with him. Really? How disappointing.
 
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