The diverse genetic origins of a Classical period Greek army

[Jovialis]

I do not overlap with mycenaeans (Something I have never claimed). I require more steppe.

 

[Jovialis]

I think anyone who's been in this hobby for more than a hot minute knows the answer to that question.

If one wanted to do a fast and dirty analysis, one could take the French Basque (Not Pais Vasco bkz even that has a bit of North African) and compare them to most modern Spaniards.

Not that I'm suggesting any such thing.

Anyone who plays this game between Iberians and Italians is odious. We're both Southern Europeans, brothers, with similar culture and customs and even mutually understandable languages. Why should we toady to Nordicists and accept their idiotic idea that they are somehow superior?

Southern Europeans who are toady to Nordicists are basically Uncle Toms of South Europe. Southern Europeans who brag about being more Nordic, are the spiritual equivalent to high stepping yellows putting down darker blacks.

 

[Angela]

My husband's results are below. He is Calabrian and Campanian.

Using all of the Himera samples:

Target: AJF Distance: 3.1135% / 3.11351746
50.1	Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med
29.4	Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc
20.5	Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med_lc

I should point out that Italians are not all that close to one another, especially if they have ancestry from more than one region, as is the case for both my husband and myself. He is, as I said, both Calabrian and Campanian. His closest match is to Calabrians, but the match is only 3. something.

 

[Angela]

For anyone who might be interested, this is the statement which, according to Asseje or whatever the current sock, makes me a "hysterical madwoman".

"
It's a Syrian/Jewish fetish coming from two directions in my opinion.

One is the Neo-Nazi group, best represented in the amateur community by people of Eastern European ancestry who hate and have always hated Jews, and hate Italians because Southern Italians plot near Ashkenazim on PCAs and must therefore be Jewish admixed, right? Eurogenes famously said, before he realized he couldn't get away with it and scrubbed all his content, that Southern Italbians, as well as Jews (the few remaining), should be kicked out of Europe along with the Near Eastern refugees.

My personal opinion is that it's also about the fact that Italians put the lie to the story line that achievement, intellectual and otherwise, is correlated with high WHG, Steppe etc. ancestry. It really burns them. That's why for so long the ancient Romans were held to be Nordics who suddenly turned into Italians.

From the other direction you have the "wannabe Jews", a not uncommon group in the U.S., for example, who want there to be a genetic connection between the two groups to increase their "prestige". There's also supposedly someone actually Jewish or half Jewish at anthrogenica who spouts the same stuff.

The irony is that there may indeed be a genetic connection between Ashkenazim and Italians, but the gene flow goes the other way, i.e. perhaps Italian women entering the gene pool. It could also be Greek admixture of some kind, but the Jewish academics seem to prefer the Italian option. I understand that their natural impulse is to prefer that, certainly over emphasizing Lithuanian/Polish admixture. Every Jew I've ever met, and I've met thousands, loves Italy, and I understand their perhaps unconscious leanings."

Is there anyone who has been in this hobby for a few years who doesn't know that Eurogenes is a Neo-Nazi, that he used to post on Stormfront, that on that site as well as others now almost defunct, he made anti-Semitic slurs, and anti-Southern Italian slurs, including the one I cited?

My post is so accurate it should have a damn imprimatur on it.

 

[bigsnake49]

^^^^^^^^^^
There was a lot of contact between Jews and Greeks and Jews and Italians all over the Roman Empire. St Paul's preached in a Jewish synagogue even in a small city like Veria (Veroea or Verea) in Greece (Acts 17:10-12).

 

[Angela]

^^^^^^^^^^
There was a lot of contact between Jews and Greeks and Jews and Italians all over the Roman Empire. St Paul's preached in a Jewish synagogue even in a small city like Veria (Veroea or Verea) in Greece (Acts 17:10-12).

I'm not sure I get your point. If it is that OF COURSE they must have admixed, that is too broad a statement to be helpful.

The only way that a "gentile" male could marry a Jewish female was to become a Jew. That would require conversion, which would require circumcision. Very few gentile men did it as we can tell from the YDna of Jewish males.

It was different for female gentiles. Conversion was a much easier process.

Of course, by the time of Constantine, intermarriage between Jew and Gentile was prohibited under pain of death. Likewise, under Jewish law it was anathema.

 

[bigsnake49]

I'm not sure I get your point. If it is that OF COURSE they must have admixed, that is too broad a statement to be helpful.

The only way that a "gentile" male could marry a Jewish female was to become a Jew. That would require conversion, which would require circumcision. Very few gentile men did it as we can tell from the YDna of Jewish males.

It was different for female gentiles. Conversion was a much easier process.

Of course, by the time of Constantine, intermarriage between Jew and Gentile was prohibited under pain of death. Likewise, under Jewish law it was anathema.

Whichever way it happened, it happened. There must have been admixture between locals and Jews to have the closeness of Ashkenazi Jews to Italians & Greeks.

 

[Angela]

Actually, all it takes for two populations to plot next to one another is nearly equal proportions of ancient components.

That's why the offspring of a Chinese person and a British person can plot in Central Asia.

I would think you'd know that.

The same plotting for Jews could be the result of a Near Eastern genome admixed with Central European German (Rhineland) and then Polish/Lithuanian, although Xue et al in 2017 claimed that 60-80% or so of the European admixture (about 50%) was Southern European.

I wasn't, however, completely convinced by the IBD analysis, as the paper was only able to posit a "general" Southern European input.

There hasn't been a more recent analysis. Probably they, along with a lot of other people, are waiting for a Hellenic Era or 1st century C.E. sample from Israel.

 

[Francesco]

Whichever way it happened, it happened. There must have been admixture between locals and Jews to have the closeness of Ashkenazi Jews to Italians & Greeks.

It was clearly Jews absorbing southern european gentiles and not the other way around: https://razib.substack.com/p/ashkenazi-jewish-genetics-a-match
This is proved not only by the most recent analysis, but even by simple common sense: Jews have always been a minority, they couldn't have given a great genetic input to their host population.

 

[kingjohn]

Wow that was fast
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aka9oiY6CjHTMi3gvAIiglfIE2oCIfyU/view?usp=sharing
Only yesterday michaelis gave davidski
The link to the modern greek and italian genomes from this paper
and day later davidski gave g25
Values
Like him or not he is fast i give him that

 

[Pax Augusta]

Wow that was fast
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aka9oiY6CjHTMi3gvAIiglfIE2oCIfyU/view?usp=sharing
Only yesterday michaelis gave davidski
The link to the modern greek and italian genomes from this paper
and day later davidski gave g25
Values
Like him or not he is fast i give him that

They all have low coverage.

 

[kingjohn]

They all have low coverage.

Realy
Too bad
Do you happen to know there y haplogroups?

 

[Palermo Trapani]

KingJohn: Thanks. I ran the G25 Coordinates for the new modern samples from this new paper. Top 25, Distances are good and seem reasonable and consistent with what I usually get on these types of comparisons with modern Italian samples. I get some close distances to some of the Greek moderns as well.

Distance to:	PT_G25_Ancestry_simulated_g25_scaled
0.02226940	Italian_SouthG2012_424
0.02356339	Italian_SouthuG17
0.02549290	Italian_SouthuG58
0.02552214	Italian_South:NaN129RT
0.02630952	Italian_South:ALP374
0.02658234	Italian_SouthuG12
0.02716343	Italian_SouthuG37
0.02816319	Italian_South:ALP129
0.02829205	Italian_CentralG720
0.02848807	Cretan:CRE_SIT_8
0.02848956	Italian_CentralG128
0.02878632	Italian_SouthG2012_398
0.02939386	Italian_Central:VT035
0.02965207	Cretan:CRE_TZ_10
0.02969778	Italian_SouthuG20
0.02985790	Greek:CYCL22
0.03000769	Italian_SouthuG66
0.03002789	Cretan:CRE_KIS_27
0.03015087	Italian_CentralG2012_625
0.03052151	Greek:CYCL19
0.03057197	Italian_South:ALP597
0.03064238	Greek:CYCL16
0.03157969	Greek:IL21
0.03188873	Italian_CentralG723
0.03210361	Italian_CentralG722

 

[Angela]

I don't understand. How could modern samples be low coverage?

Plus, the way he's labeled them there's no way of knowing the precise area they're from.

 

[Pax Augusta]

Realy
Too bad
Do you happen to know there y haplogroups?

Not unless there is something inside the study.

Interesting however, thanks for sharing. There are for the first time Emilian academic samples, from Piacenza, Parma, Modena and Ferrara, also Emilian Apennine academic samples (Val Tidone, Val di Taro). There is not a single Romagnolo, though. There continues to be a lack of Ligurians. While for Tuscans they continue to sample in the southernmost parts of the region, when 2/3 of the Tuscan population lives and is rooted north of the Arno River.

For the Venetians Italian geneticists continue to sample mostly the alpine areas of the region, with even samples from Sappada passed off as Veneti. Sappada is a German language island in Italy!

Except finally for a few samples from Emilia, the alpine areas of northern Italy continue to be overrepresented.

Even among the Greek samples someone seems to belong to the language minorities. They should be compared with the academic samples we already have.

Among the good news is that we have, I think for the first time, samples from Salento, Puglia. Maybe some are from the Grecanic areas (Griko), should be checked.

 

[Pax Augusta]

I don't understand. How could modern samples be low coverage?

Plus, the way he's labeled them there's no way of knowing the precise area they're from.

29%, Salento checked them out yesterday. The exact areas are given in the study, Salento did a post on it a week ago. #92

ALP211	Italian_North	Modena (MO) / Emilia-Romagna
ALP156	Italian_North	Piacenza (PC) / Emilia-Romagna
ALP202	Italian_North	Bassano del Grappa (VI) / Veneto
ALP278	Italian_North	Borgonovo Val Tidone (PC) / Emilia-Romagna
ALP134	Italian_North	Cremona(CR) / Lombardy
ALP603	Italian_North	Vernate (MI) / Lombardy
ALP533	Italian_North	Torino (TO) / Piedmont
ALP67	Italian_North	Borgo Val di Taro (PR) / Emilia-Romagna
ALP392	Italian_North	Busseto (PR) / Emilia-Romagna
ALP68	Italian_North	Alessandria (AL) / Piedmont
ALP73	Italian_North	Cuneo (CN) / Piedmont
ALP108	Italian_North	Treviso (TV) / Veneto
ALP342	Italian_North	Parma (PR) / Emilia-Romagna
ALP277	Italian_North	Domodossola (VB) / Piedmont
ALP481	Italian_North	Sappada (BL) / Veneto
ALP28	Italian_North	Ferrara (FE) / Emilia-Romagna
ALP76	Italian_North	Bergamo (BG) / Lombardy
Nei27	Italian_North	Nogarè (TN) / Trentino-Alto Adige
Nei18	Italian_North	Taio (TN) / Trentino-Alto Adige

VT035	Italian_Central	Bolsena (VT) / Northern Latium
PG722	Italian_Central	Fabriano (AN) / Marche
PG470	Italian_Central	Ascoli Piceno (AP) / Marche
PG739	Italian_Central	Ca' De Cio (AR) / Southern Tuscany
PG128	Italian_Central	Perugia Case Nuove (PG) / Umbria
PG734	Italian_Central	Perugia (PG) / Umbria
PG2012_477	Italian_Central	Bettolle (SI) / Southern Tuscany
PG720	Italian_Central	Ascoli Piceno (AP) / Marche
PG2012_625	Italian_Central	Perugia (PG) / Umbria
PG775	Italian_Central	Perugia Stazione (PG) / Umbria
PG2012_642	Italian_Central	Cupramontana (AN) / Marche
PG723	Italian_Central	Perugia Montegrillo (PG) / Umbria
PG2012_639	Italian_Central	Arezzo (AR) / Southern Tuscany
PG2012_242	Italian_Central	Castiglion Fiorentino (AR) / Southern Tuscany
PG2012_647	Italian_Central	Chiusi (SI) / Southern Tuscany
PG731	Italian_Central	Montepulciano (SI) / Southern Tuscany
ALP597	Italian_South	Cetraro (CS) / Calabria
ALP129	Italian_South	Reggio Calabria (RC) / Calabria
PuG46	Italian_South	Martano (LE) / Apulia
PuG12	Italian_South	Soleto (LE) / Apulia
PuG20	Italian_South	Calimera (LE) / Apulia
PG2012_398	Italian_South	Lamezia Terme (CZ) / Calabria
PuG37	Italian_South	Soleto (LE) / Apulia
NaN129RT	Italian_South	Portici (NA) / Campania
PG2012_699	Italian_South	Mileto (VV) / Calabria
PuG33	Italian_South	Sternatia (LE) / Apulia
PG2012_424	Italian_South	Amendolara (CS) / Calabria
PuG74	Italian_South	Zollino (LE) / Apulia
ALP374	Italian_South	Benevento (BN) / Campania
PuG28	Italian_South	Martano (LE) / Apulia
PuG58	Italian_South	Martano (LE) / Apulia
PuG17	Italian_South	Soleto (LE) / Apulia
PuG66	Italian_South	Zollino (LE) / Apulia

... by George Stamatoyannopoulos:

AHA15	Greek	Lefkasio/Ahaia/Greek
ARG1	Greek	Argos/Argolida/Greek
ARK3	Greek	Perdikoneri/Messenia/Greek
ARK19	Greek	Palaiohori/Arkadia/Greek
CYCL1	Greek	Koumaros/Cyclades/Greek
CYCL2	Greek	Amorgos/Cyclades/Greek
CYCL3	Greek	Amorgos/Cyclades/Greek
CYCL12	Greek	Tarampados/Cyclades/Greek
CYCL16	Greek	Triovasalos/Cyclades/Greek
CYCL19	Greek	Milos/Cyclades/Greek
CYCL22	Greek	Kea/Cyclades/Greek
CYCL23	Greek	Kea/Cyclades/Greek
DOD1	Greek	Paradisi/Dodecanese/Greek
DOD2	Greek	Lardos/Dodecanese/Greek
DOD3	Greek	Laerma/Dodecanese/Greek
DOD4	Greek	Archagelos/Dodecanese/Greek
DOD5	Greek	Malonas/Dodecanese/Greek
DOD6	Greek	Vati/Dodecanese/Greek
DOD7	Greek	Rodos/Dodecanese/Greek
IL4	Greek	Douneika/Aitolokarnania/Greek
IL21	Greek	Skliros/Messenia/Greek
KOR42	Greek	Kariotika/Korinthia/Greek
LAK8	Greek	Neapoli/Laconia/Greek
MAK103	Greek	Hortiatis/Thessaloniki/Greek
MAK118	Greek	Epanomi/Thessaloniki/Greek
MAK127	Greek	Kassandrino/Halkidiki/Greek
MAK147	Greek	Nikisiani/Kavala/Greek
MAK175	Greek	Palaiohori/Halkidiki/Greek
MAK196	Greek	Parthenonas/Halkidiki/Greek
MAK249	Greek	Poroi/Pieria/Greek
MAK337	Greek	Doxato/Drama/Greek
MES19	Greek	Filiatra/Messenia/Greek
MES32	Greek	Kyparissia/Messenia/Greek
CRE_AN_18	Cretan	Ano Horio/Lasithi/Greek
CRE_AV_28	Cretan	Agios Thomas/Heraklion/Greek
CRE_IER_20	Cretan	Christos/Lasithi/Greek
CRE_KAN_18	Cretan	Kandanos/Chania/Greek
CRE_KIS_27	Cretan	Kalathenes/Chania/Greek
CRE_MOI_17	Cretan	Zaros/Heraklion/Greek
CRE_NE_11	Cretan	Vrachasi/Lasithi/Greek
CRE_SIT_4	Cretan	Papayannades/Lasithi/Greek
CRE_SIT_8	Cretan	Ziros/Lasithi/Greek
CRE_TZ_10	Cretan	Tzermiado/Lasithi/Greek
CRE_VIA_25	Cretan	Vianos/Heraklion/Greek

 

[Pax Augusta]

Dodecad K12b

 

[Jovialis]

29%, Salento checked them out yesterday. The exact areas are given in the study, Salento did a post on it a week ago. #92

ALP211	Italian_North	Modena (MO) / Emilia-Romagna
ALP156	Italian_North	Piacenza (PC) / Emilia-Romagna
ALP202	Italian_North	Bassano del Grappa (VI) / Veneto
ALP278	Italian_North	Borgonovo Val Tidone (PC) / Emilia-Romagna
ALP134	Italian_North	Cremona(CR) / Lombardy
ALP603	Italian_North	Vernate (MI) / Lombardy
ALP533	Italian_North	Torino (TO) / Piedmont
ALP67	Italian_North	Borgo Val di Taro (PR) / Emilia-Romagna
ALP392	Italian_North	Busseto (PR) / Emilia-Romagna
ALP68	Italian_North	Alessandria (AL) / Piedmont
ALP73	Italian_North	Cuneo (CN) / Piedmont
ALP108	Italian_North	Treviso (TV) / Veneto
ALP342	Italian_North	Parma (PR) / Emilia-Romagna
ALP277	Italian_North	Domodossola (VB) / Piedmont
ALP481	Italian_North	Sappada (BL) / Veneto
ALP28	Italian_North	Ferrara (FE) / Emilia-Romagna
ALP76	Italian_North	Bergamo (BG) / Lombardy
Nei27	Italian_North	Nogarè (TN) / Trentino-Alto Adige
Nei18	Italian_North	Taio (TN) / Trentino-Alto Adige

VT035	Italian_Central	Bolsena (VT) / Northern Latium
PG722	Italian_Central	Fabriano (AN) / Marche
PG470	Italian_Central	Ascoli Piceno (AP) / Marche
PG739	Italian_Central	Ca' De Cio (AR) / Southern Tuscany
PG128	Italian_Central	Perugia Case Nuove (PG) / Umbria
PG734	Italian_Central	Perugia (PG) / Umbria
PG2012_477	Italian_Central	Bettolle (SI) / Southern Tuscany
PG720	Italian_Central	Ascoli Piceno (AP) / Marche
PG2012_625	Italian_Central	Perugia (PG) / Umbria
PG775	Italian_Central	Perugia Stazione (PG) / Umbria
PG2012_642	Italian_Central	Cupramontana (AN) / Marche
PG723	Italian_Central	Perugia Montegrillo (PG) / Umbria
PG2012_639	Italian_Central	Arezzo (AR) / Southern Tuscany
PG2012_242	Italian_Central	Castiglion Fiorentino (AR) / Southern Tuscany
PG2012_647	Italian_Central	Chiusi (SI) / Southern Tuscany
PG731	Italian_Central	Montepulciano (SI) / Southern Tuscany
ALP597	Italian_South	Cetraro (CS) / Calabria
ALP129	Italian_South	Reggio Calabria (RC) / Calabria
PuG46	Italian_South	Martano (LE) / Apulia
PuG12	Italian_South	Soleto (LE) / Apulia
PuG20	Italian_South	Calimera (LE) / Apulia
PG2012_398	Italian_South	Lamezia Terme (CZ) / Calabria
PuG37	Italian_South	Soleto (LE) / Apulia
NaN129RT	Italian_South	Portici (NA) / Campania
PG2012_699	Italian_South	Mileto (VV) / Calabria
PuG33	Italian_South	Sternatia (LE) / Apulia
PG2012_424	Italian_South	Amendolara (CS) / Calabria
PuG74	Italian_South	Zollino (LE) / Apulia
ALP374	Italian_South	Benevento (BN) / Campania
PuG28	Italian_South	Martano (LE) / Apulia
PuG58	Italian_South	Martano (LE) / Apulia
PuG17	Italian_South	Soleto (LE) / Apulia
PuG66	Italian_South	Zollino (LE) / Apulia

... by George Stamatoyannopoulos:

AHA15	Greek	Lefkasio/Ahaia/Greek
ARG1	Greek	Argos/Argolida/Greek
ARK3	Greek	Perdikoneri/Messenia/Greek
ARK19	Greek	Palaiohori/Arkadia/Greek
CYCL1	Greek	Koumaros/Cyclades/Greek
CYCL2	Greek	Amorgos/Cyclades/Greek
CYCL3	Greek	Amorgos/Cyclades/Greek
CYCL12	Greek	Tarampados/Cyclades/Greek
CYCL16	Greek	Triovasalos/Cyclades/Greek
CYCL19	Greek	Milos/Cyclades/Greek
CYCL22	Greek	Kea/Cyclades/Greek
CYCL23	Greek	Kea/Cyclades/Greek
DOD1	Greek	Paradisi/Dodecanese/Greek
DOD2	Greek	Lardos/Dodecanese/Greek
DOD3	Greek	Laerma/Dodecanese/Greek
DOD4	Greek	Archagelos/Dodecanese/Greek
DOD5	Greek	Malonas/Dodecanese/Greek
DOD6	Greek	Vati/Dodecanese/Greek
DOD7	Greek	Rodos/Dodecanese/Greek
IL4	Greek	Douneika/Aitolokarnania/Greek
IL21	Greek	Skliros/Messenia/Greek
KOR42	Greek	Kariotika/Korinthia/Greek
LAK8	Greek	Neapoli/Laconia/Greek
MAK103	Greek	Hortiatis/Thessaloniki/Greek
MAK118	Greek	Epanomi/Thessaloniki/Greek
MAK127	Greek	Kassandrino/Halkidiki/Greek
MAK147	Greek	Nikisiani/Kavala/Greek
MAK175	Greek	Palaiohori/Halkidiki/Greek
MAK196	Greek	Parthenonas/Halkidiki/Greek
MAK249	Greek	Poroi/Pieria/Greek
MAK337	Greek	Doxato/Drama/Greek
MES19	Greek	Filiatra/Messenia/Greek
MES32	Greek	Kyparissia/Messenia/Greek
CRE_AN_18	Cretan	Ano Horio/Lasithi/Greek
CRE_AV_28	Cretan	Agios Thomas/Heraklion/Greek
CRE_IER_20	Cretan	Christos/Lasithi/Greek
CRE_KAN_18	Cretan	Kandanos/Chania/Greek
CRE_KIS_27	Cretan	Kalathenes/Chania/Greek
CRE_MOI_17	Cretan	Zaros/Heraklion/Greek
CRE_NE_11	Cretan	Vrachasi/Lasithi/Greek
CRE_SIT_4	Cretan	Papayannades/Lasithi/Greek
CRE_SIT_8	Cretan	Ziros/Lasithi/Greek
CRE_TZ_10	Cretan	Tzermiado/Lasithi/Greek
CRE_VIA_25	Cretan	Vianos/Heraklion/Greek

Maybe they were genotyped, instead of WGS?

My 23andme V5 is about 25% coverage.

 

[Angela]

Thanks. Then I'll run them, I guess. I've wasted time on worse things. Odd that they have no samples from Firenze or northwest Tuscany.

Distance to:	Angela
0.02053474	Italian_CentralG2012_639
0.02252904	Italian_North:ALP392
0.02395643	Italian_North:ALP278
0.02583468	Italian_CentralG734
0.02674609	Italian_CentralG2012_242
0.02722344	Italian_North:ALP211
0.02840061	Italian_CentralG2012_625
0.02869962	Italian_North:ALP28
0.02873379	Italian_North:ALP342
0.02973702	Italian_CentralG731
0.02978553	Italian_CentralG775
0.03029726	Italian_CentralG720
0.03033019	Italian_North:ALP156
0.03042404	Italian_Central:VT035
0.03106806	Italian_North:ALP68
0.03311388	Italian_North:ALP67
0.03317068	Italian_North:ALP603
0.03319161	Italian_CentralG2012_647
0.03378537	Italian_North:ALP134
0.03381174	Italian_CentralG128
0.03383515	Italian_CentralG723
0.03436418	Italian_CentralG2012_477
0.03485240	Italian_SouthuG17
0.03537920	Greek:AHA15
0.03586502	Italian_North:ALP76

Arezzo, Toscana
Busseto, Parma, Emilia-Romagna (On the plain northwest of Parma, near Cremona, Lombardia)
Borgonovo Val Tidone (PC) Piacenza, Emilia-Romagna (Most northwestern city of Emilia-Romagna, close to Lombardia)
Perugia, Umbria
Castiglion Fiorentino, Arezzo, Toscana, northwest of Perugia
Modena, Emilia-Romagna
Perugia, Umbria
Ferrara, Emilia-Romagna-Romagna, near the Adriatic
Parma, Emilia-Romagna
Montepulciano, Siena, Toscana
Perugia Stazione (PG) / Umbria

The .03 results start here:
Ascoli Piceno (AP) / Marche, (the eastern side of Italy, south of Romagna)
Piacenza (PC) / Emilia-Romagna-(most Northwestern part of Emilia-Romagna)
Bolsena (VT) / Northern Lazio
Alessandria (AL) / Piemonte
Borgo Val di Taro (PR) / Emilia-Romagna- In the Apennines, but quite a bit west
Vernate (MI) / Lombardia
Chiusi, Siena, Toscana
Cremona(CR) / Lombardia
Perugia Case Nuove (PG) / Umbria
Perugia Montegrillo (PG) / Umbria
Bettole, Siena, Toscana
Soleto, Lecce, Apulia
Lefkasio, Greece (Achaea, northwest Peloponnese)
Bergamo, Lombardia

A few surprises, like the Lecce and Lefkasio hit that I don't understand.

Fwiw, Cremona and Piacenza also come up in my ancestrydna results. Could my father's ancestry be more like that than one would guess looking at the map? Well, Cavalli-Sforza said the people in those mountain top villages came up from the plain, so maybe that explains it?

Don't get the Umbria and southern Tuscan matches, which don't show up anywhere in my genealogy, although there are a few gaps in my maternal grandfather's line. Do love that area, though: Montepulciano, Siena, Perugia. I've been thinking of doing a six-month course in Perugia at the university.

Probably a coincidence but those are all the Etruscan heartland. That may be why they were chosen.

Anyway, were there northwestern Tuscan samples, i.e. Lunigiana and Garfagnana, I'm sure those would be closer than those near Arezzo.

Target: Angela Distance: 0.0067% / 0.00667721 | ADC: 0.25x RC
59.5	Italian_North
33.4	Italian_Central
7.1	Italian_South

Of the two-way, first is Arezzo and Parma, second is Alessandria, Piemonte (eastern Piemonte, closer to Emilia) and Busseto, Parma. Another one is Modena and Parma.

Distance to:	Angela
0.01650880	55.60% Italian_CentralG2012_639 + 44.40% Italian_North:ALP392
0.01662907	36.60% Italian_North:ALP68 + 63.40% Italian_North:ALP392
0.01674052	57.00% Italian_CentralG734 + 43.00% Italian_North:ALP68
0.01674501	34.20% Italian_CentralG2012_625 + 65.80% Italian_CentralG2012_639
0.01684334	41.20% Italian_North:ALP211 + 58.80% Italian_North:ALP392
0.01685534	59.20% Italian_CentralG2012_639 + 40.80% Italian_North:ALP278
0.01698447	33.60% Italian_CentralG128 + 66.40% Italian_North:ALP392
0.01714504	66.00% Italian_North:ALP392 + 34.00% Italian_North:ALP603
0.01724235	51.60% Italian_CentralG731 + 48.40% Italian_North:ALP68
0.01733379	39.00% Italian_CentralG2012_625 + 61.00% Italian_North:ALP392
0.01734400	46.60% Italian_North:ALP278 + 53.40% Italian_North:ALP392
0.01736790	70.20% Italian_CentralG2012_639 + 29.80% Italian_North:ALP68
0.01738007	36.40% Italian_CentralG734 + 63.60% Italian_CentralG2012_639
0.01751288	79.00% Italian_CentralG2012_639 + 21.00% Italian_North:Nei18
0.01777218	27.40% Greek:MES32 + 72.60% Italian_North:ALP392
0.01781579	73.20% Italian_CentralG2012_639 + 26.80% Italian_North:ALP603
0.01794371	24.00% Italian_CentralG470 + 76.00% Italian_CentralG2012_639
0.01805849	35.40% Italian_Central:VT035 + 64.60% Italian_North:ALP392
0.01809269	63.00% Italian_CentralG2012_625 + 37.00% Italian_North:ALP533
0.01809855	29.20% Italian_CentralG731 + 70.80% Italian_CentralG2012_639
0.01812388	67.80% Italian_CentralG2012_639 + 32.20% Italian_North:ALP211
0.01814506	60.40% Italian_North:ALP73 + 39.60% Italian_South:ALP129
0.01817165	76.40% Italian_CentralG2012_639 + 23.60% Italian_North:ALP76
0.01817208	46.20% Italian_CentralG731 + 53.80% Italian_North:ALP211
0.01823502	70.20% Italian_CentralG2012_639 + 29.80% Italian_North:ALP28

 

[Pax Augusta]

Maybe they were genotyped, instead of WGS?

My 23andme V5 is about 25% coverage.

Good point, it is possible.