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The genetic history of the Southern Arc-Lazaridis et al

ihype02 said:
No E-V13 in Greece or Albania.
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to be honest that makes the significant presence of e-v13 in modern day greeks and albanians
damn impressive;-)
 
kingjohn said:
to be honest that makes the significant presence of e-v13 in modern day greeks and albanians
damn impressive;-)
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I've always been saying EV-13 was mostly founder effects. It existed in pockets here and there, but it played no major role in any large civilizations.
 
I'm seeing two Bronze migrations into Europe which I think were already present from earlier studies. One east Mediterranean one, presumably out of this "Southern Arc" that was probably predominantly J-L26 and other non-R1 groups absorbed along the way westwards across the east Mediterranean. Most strongly represented by "Iran_Neolithic" reference samples. It seems some J2, plausibly J2-L283 and other J2a variations were already in the Balkans with LBK and other farming cultures.

The other group is the "steppe" group which was represented by R1-M269 and I2-M223 (L701 among others) which is linked to Yamnaya populations. I'm not seeing any other lineages here as they were probably never on the steppes.

Why the R1b "steppe" groups left their steppe homeland seems to be a mystery, but as does the J2 groups. The latter were likely agriculturalists and city builders and the former knew nothing of the sort really.

If the heavy R1b samples in NW Iran are not Proto-Iranian speakers, what are they? Are we really saying they are all Proto-Armenian speakers? It's doubtful that all these ancient tribes labeled "Iranian" were all speaking the same dialects, in fact probably impossible.
 
Pax Augusta said:
Good question. Currently looking myself.
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The study does have one J-L70 sample from east Anatolia ca. 1,000 ad, and two from Mugla (never heard of it before), southwest Anatolia, ca. 1,400 ad. The Mugla samples are J2a1a1b2a1 (long, I know), which looks like L70 in the results. There was a local Anatolian/Carian and ancient Greek presence in Mugla, according to what I just read. So J-L70 or something just like it in Mugla so far spanned from late antiquity Rome and Balkans to medieval Anatolia. Very nice to get more old samples. They were in the neighborhood a long time ago. Looking forward to more samples.
 
Is it just me or ancient Macedonians and Illyrians here essentially the same people?
 
Ralphie Boy said:
The study does have one J-L70 sample from east Anatolia ca. 1,000 ad, and two from Mugla (never heard of it before), southwest Anatolia, ca. 1,400 ad. The Mugla samples are J2a1a1b2a1 (long, I know), which looks like L70 in the results. There was a local Anatolian/Carian and ancient Greek presence in Mugla, according to what I just read. So J-L70 or something just like it in Mugla so far spanned from late antiquity Rome and Balkans to medieval Anatolia. Very nice to get more old samples. They were in the neighborhood a long time ago. Looking forward to more samples.
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Nice finding. We are still waiting for the Galatas Myceanean sample, that should be L70 as well. It would be great to have classical greeks samples, I'm sure L70's clades played an important role on the Greek expansion through the Mediterranean.
 
Aaron1981 said:
I'm seeing two Bronze migrations into Europe which I think were already present from earlier studies. One east Mediterranean one, presumably out of this "Southern Arc" that was probably predominantly J-L26 and other non-R1 groups absorbed along the way westwards across the east Mediterranean. Most strongly represented by "Iran_Neolithic" reference samples. It seems some J2, plausibly J2-L283 and other J2a variations were already in the Balkans with LBK and other farming cultures.

The other group is the "steppe" group which was represented by R1-M269 and I2-M223 (L701 among others) which is linked to Yamnaya populations. I'm not seeing any other lineages here as they were probably never on the steppes.

Why the R1b "steppe" groups left their steppe homeland seems to be a mystery, but as does the J2 groups. The latter were likely agriculturalists and city builders and the former knew nothing of the sort really.

If the heavy R1b samples in NW Iran are not Proto-Iranian speakers, what are they? Are we really saying they are all Proto-Armenian speakers? It's doubtful that all these ancient tribes labeled "Iranian" were all speaking the same dialects, in fact probably impossible.
Click to expand...

J2 is clearly tied to steppe migrations. Neolithic Balkans don't have it. It's all G/T.

Earliest J2 samples are steppe-heavy.
 
I suggest actually reading the paper and supplement.
 
enter_tain said:
1 sample in ancient Illyria/Croatia, 1 in Macedonia, the rest is in eastern Bulgaria, mostly from 1 site.
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If it's all we find, his line got very lucky, or they were very important.
 
Ralphie Boy said:
The study does have one J-L70 sample from east Anatolia ca. 1,000 ad, and two from Mugla (never heard of it before), southwest Anatolia, ca. 1,400 ad. The Mugla samples are J2a1a1b2a1 (long, I know), which looks like L70 in the results. There was a local Anatolian/Carian and ancient Greek presence in Mugla, according to what I just read. So J-L70 or something just like it in Mugla so far spanned from late antiquity Rome and Balkans to medieval Anatolia. Very nice to get more old samples. They were in the neighborhood a long time ago. Looking forward to more samples.
Click to expand...

Sorry, one of the two Mugla L70-looking samples was from ca. 975 ad. So L70 apparently has been in southwest Anatolia for a few hundred years at least. It's no wonder why some east Aegean islanders reportedly have high amounts of L70.
 
Ancient Macedonians identical to Ancient Albanians. And I picked a sample from the "classic Macedonia".

nnDTNJn.png


We named our national currency after Alexander. They were definitely justified :laughing:
 
enter_tain said:
Ancient Macedonians identical to Ancient Albanians. And I picked a sample from the "classic Macedonia".

nnDTNJn.png


We named our national currency after Alexander. They were definitely justified :laughing:
Click to expand...

They were Proto- Greeks, they sent some translators that turn Minions into Mycenaean. I have heard stories in the past but this surpasses them.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
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