The genetic origin of Daunians

Jovialis said:
Me too, it is hard to guage when, some papers have released samples before even publishing, some a few days after the study is published from peer-review.
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Are they even supposed to publish them? I don't think they are coming, unless someone contacts them.

Have you noticed how both Etruscans and Daunians are genetically diverse towards Sardinians. Maybe that existed in Sicily, from Sardinian shifted West Sicilians (that we have already seen) towards Minoans in the East like the Bell_Beaker_Sicily.

Daunians will be even closer to Classical Greeks than the LBA Sicilians. I expect Lucanians to be like Daunians (I wont accept the rumours about them being Etruscan-like until I see it) and Eastern Sicilians to shift towards Bell_Beaker_Sicily.
 
ihype02 said:
Daunians will be even closer to Classical Greeks than the LBA Sicilians. I expect Lucanians to be like Daunians (I wont accept the rumours about them being Etruscan-like until I see it) and Eastern Sicilians to shift towards Bell_Beaker_Sicily.
Click to expand...
It's a pity that you really can't look at them, even with one eye!
 
ihype02 said:
Are they even supposed to publish them? I don't think they are coming, unless someone contacts them.

Have you noticed how both Etruscans and Daunians are genetically diverse towards Sardinians. Maybe that existed in Sicily, from Sardinian shifted West Sicilians (that we have already seen) towards Minoans in the East like the Bell_Beaker_Sicily.

Daunians will be even closer to Classical Greeks than the LBA Sicilians. I expect Lucanians to be like Daunians (I wont accept the rumours about them being Etruscan-like until I see it) and Eastern Sicilians to shift towards Bell_Beaker_Sicily.
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more like ............etruscans and daunians are more northern shifted ( daunians came from dalmatia and liburnia lands ) ............and Lucanians and Bruttians are Samnite in origin and the samnites are Umbri in origin and Umbri are also northern shifted
 
torzio said:
more like ............etruscans and daunians are more northern shifted ( daunians came from dalmatia and liburnia lands ) ............and Lucanians and Bruttians are Samnite in origin and the samnites are Umbri in origin and Umbri are also northern shifted
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Italy is isolated by the sea. Daunians and Messapians did not pop out of nowhere without 'cousins' in there. Maybe you are right but I prefer to wait and see actual Lucanian samples. I don't believe the Illyrian hypothesis. (Regarding Apulia)
Etruscans spoke a non IE language after all.
 
The Goths had already run through the Balkans before SGR001 lived in Daunia. The east shift probably came from there. It would be interesting if SGR001 were even more east shifted at this time. The Volga to middle east connection could be a way, or known Byzantine guards. I hope we get a BAM to determine a subclade.
 
I1a3_Young said:
The Goths had already run through the Balkans before SGR001 lived in Daunia. The east shift probably came from there. It would be interesting if SGR001 were even more east shifted at this time. The Volga to middle east connection could be a way, or known Byzantine guards. I hope we get a BAM to determine a subclade.
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correct
Early Medieval individual (SGR001 (670 - 774 AD )
IIRC , someone said a goth from modern Moldova ( bessarabia province ) ....I will recheck
the region was inhabited by Thracians, as well as for shorter periods by Cimmerians, Scythians, Sarmatians, and Celts, specifically by tribes such as the Costoboci, Carpi,
The carpi where with the Goths
could be any of these
 
ihype02 said:
Italy is isolated by the sea. Daunians and Messapians did not pop out of nowhere without 'cousins' in there. Maybe you are right but I prefer to wait and see actual Lucanian samples. I don't believe the Illyrian hypothesis. (Regarding Apulia)
Etruscans spoke a non IE language after all.
Click to expand...


again … from Apulia, I don’t know to what extent my results correlate to Antiquity,

… fwiw … though by distance while I’m not close to the Illyrians, it seems that they have left genetic markers in my chromosomes:

Sntvvym.jpg


eJEIX9T.jpg
 
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Great! I've been keeping an eye on when they would be ready. I am very busy today, but I will try to get to these. No doubt I will have them ready during the week.
 
Jovialis said:
Great! I've been keeping an eye on when they would be ready. I am very busy today, but I will try to get to these. No doubt I will have them ready during the week.
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Jovialis: Thanks for being willing to run the coordinates from the various calculators for those Daunians. Looking forward to having something to potentially post about.
 
^^hmm, Maybe someone can double-check my work here, but ORD001 doesn't seem anywhere near Mycenaeans. Maybe due to the low-coverage?

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Romanians @ 11.535
2 100% Bulgarian_D @ 12.448
3 100% Bulgarians_Y @ 12.601
4 100% O_Italian_D @ 14.207
5 100% N_Italian_D @ 15.513
6 100% TSI30 @ 17.934
7 100% North_Italian @ 18.341
8 100% Tuscan @ 18.947
9 100% Hungarians @ 19.195
10 100% C_Italian_D @ 19.545
 
Another interesting thing I noticed,

FWIW, these samples get little to no Gedrosia; instead they 20-30% Caucasus. Typically, populations in places like Northern Europe get Gedrosia, which could probably be attributed to the CHG in Steppe. Caucasus was speculated by some respectable posters here to be attributed to non-steppe related CHG.
 
Jovialis said:
^^hmm, Maybe someone can double-check my work here, but ORD001 doesn't seem anywhere near Mycenaeans. Maybe due to the low-coverage?

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Romanians @ 11.535
2 100% Bulgarian_D @ 12.448
3 100% Bulgarians_Y @ 12.601
4 100% O_Italian_D @ 14.207
5 100% N_Italian_D @ 15.513
6 100% TSI30 @ 17.934
7 100% North_Italian @ 18.341
8 100% Tuscan @ 18.947
9 100% Hungarians @ 19.195
10 100% C_Italian_D @ 19.545
Click to expand...

all the daunians are as the paper states......modern croatia area...that is, northern balkans and not-slavs.................the younger samples should be aligned with samnite samples if there is any

modern croatia area = 600BC to 1300BC = Liburnian
modern croatia area = roman occupation to 600Bc = Dalmatian

Liburnian lands circa 1100BC also took in Dalmatian lands

the data you provided above are typical veneti, friuli and trentini modern people numbers
 
Jovialis said:
^^hmm, Maybe someone can double-check my work here, but ORD001 doesn't seem anywhere near Mycenaeans. Maybe due to the low-coverage?

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Romanians @ 11.535
2 100% Bulgarian_D @ 12.448
3 100% Bulgarians_Y @ 12.601
4 100% O_Italian_D @ 14.207
5 100% N_Italian_D @ 15.513
6 100% TSI30 @ 17.934
7 100% North_Italian @ 18.341
8 100% Tuscan @ 18.947
9 100% Hungarians @ 19.195
10 100% C_Italian_D @ 19.545
Click to expand...

Probably low coverage. Iron Age Camapanians overlap with both Daunians and Etruscans "in between" and they show a pull towards Central Italians too. So Daunians should be closer to Central Italians than to Northern Italians.
 
ihype02 said:
Probably low coverage. Iron Age Camapanians overlap with both Daunians and Etruscans "in between" and they show a pull towards Central Italians too. So Daunians should be closer to Central Italians than to Northern Italians.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I assumed from the PCA from the study. All Italians are basically on the same z-axis, so a 3D pca shouldn't make much of a difference.
 
Here they are:

Code: 
ORD001,2.13,0,3.17,1.09,29.5,31.57,0,0.75,9.39,1.76,20.64,0
ORD004,0,0,0,0,44.67,29.85,0,0,0.14,0,22.4,2.95
ORD006,0,0,0,2.54,41.99,25.03,0,0,8.55,0,21.11,0.78
ORD009,4.03,0.65,1.42,0.98,38.29,23.77,0,0,7.95,0,22.52,0.39
ORD010,4.29,0,2.9,0,26.43,12.34,0,1.12,17.75,0,35.16,0
ORD011,0,0,0,0,41.49,23.76,0,0,8.92,0.98,24.85,0
ORD014,0,2.06,4.08,0,43.2,28.47,0.29,0,2.97,0,18.93,0
ORD019,1.73,0,0.9,0,38.01,22.88,2.51,0,0,0,33.46,0.52
SAL001,0,0,3.78,3.04,43.72,32.79,0,3.1,2.05,0,11.51,0
SAL003,0,0,1.91,0,39.06,17.5,0,0,7.93,0,33.23,0.38
SAL007,4.63,0,0,0,53.35,16.94,0,0,6.74,0,18.34,0
SAL010,4.31,0,0,0.02,45.37,38.34,0,0,0,0,11.95,0
SAL011,8.8,0,0.77,0.26,61.26,14.72,0,0,5.84,0,8.35,0
SGR001,9.06,4.24,0,2.32,23.85,12.46,0.86,3.12,3.86,0,40.22,0
SGR002,1.02,0.6,2.92,0,45.47,29.36,0,0.66,5.54,0,14.06,0.37
SGR003,2.69,0,1.74,2.68,40.79,15.65,0,1.55,7.31,0,27.6,0
 
Pretty distant, relatively speaking.

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Jovialis[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8800, align: right"]11.00351308[/TD]
[TD]ORD010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3E00, align: right"]13.17645248[/TD]
[TD]SAL003[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1700, align: right"]14.31068482[/TD]
[TD]SGR003[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1600, align: right"]14.35199289[/TD]
[TD]SGR001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF000E, align: right"]15.41134647[/TD]
[TD]ORD009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF002C, align: right"]16.30636992[/TD]
[TD]ORD019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0064, align: right"]17.94313796[/TD]
[TD]ORD011[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0091, align: right"]19.25433977[/TD]
[TD]ORD001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00BF, align: right"]20.62921714[/TD]
[TD]ORD006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B500FF, align: right"]24.66633739[/TD]
[TD]ORD014[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8C00FF, align: right"]25.87282551[/TD]
[TD]ORD004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3C00FF, align: right"]28.24325052[/TD]
[TD]SGR002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3B00FF, align: right"]28.26578143[/TD]
[TD]SAL007[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]31.81476544[/TD]
[TD]SAL001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]34.98141364[/TD]
[TD]SAL010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]40.10389009[/TD]
[TD]SAL011
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
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