The genetic origin of Daunians

Etruscans and Latins were pretty homogenous compared to Daunians, excluding some few outliers. Why would Daunians be more heterogenous than them I don't know.

This seems to be driven mostly by the CHG/IN I mentioned earlier. IMHO, the Daunians who only arrived in the late bronze age, were probably not as well mixed with the population at large yet, who I speculate are the main agents of the (Anatolia_N +)CHG/IN admixture. The fact that they mostly get Caucasus instead of Gedrosia is intriguing to me, and I think helps to prove my point.

The father of ORD001 I think is probably one of these Anatolia_N/CHG reach "natives", who lived there prior to the Daunians and Italics.
 
bgGHqFW.png


Take a look at the PCA from the study, ORD001 is west of South Italians (i.e. Mycenaean-like) that is the point of what I was saying about that sample coming out looking wrong in Dodecad K12b probably due to low-coverage. The study does not in any way say it she is modern Croatian-like who are north-east of Northern Italians.

I don't get this PCA AT ALL. The two highest coverage samples are ORD 009 and ORD 010. OO9 is within a distance of 2 to Ligurians and then other Northern Italians, and they have it down by Anatolia Neolithic if I'm reading it correctly.

ORD 010 is Ashkenazi/South Italian or Sicilian, and it's plotting with neither, but with Caucasus Iron Age. The Ashkenazi, if we want to look at their genetics in a simplistic way are from 40-60 Southern European and the rest LEVANTINE, as so many are so eager to tell us. Well, not here.

How the hell did they do this PCA?

The other question is why do a paper on such poor and unreliable samples?

Maybe this should go on the ignore pile.
 
There was less genetic diversity from Peloponnese (Mycenaean-like) all the way up to Croatia (Northern Italian-like) in the Iron Age than there is with those samples. They don't seem reliable at all.
 
This seems to be driven mostly by the CHG/IN I mentioned earlier. IMHO, the Daunians who only arrived in the late bronze age, were probably not as well mixed with the population at large yet, who I speculate are the main agents of the (Anatolia_N +)CHG/IN admixture. The fact that they mostly get Caucasus instead of Gedrosia is intriguing to me, and I think helps to prove my point.

The father of ORD001 I think is probably one of these Anatolia_N/CHG reach "natives", who lived there prior to the Daunians and Italics.

the paper states

For instance, we know that they were
mainly farmers, animal breeders, horsemen and maritime traders with an established trade network
extending across the sea with Illyrian tribes8–10. A fascinating aspect of this population, as opposed
to their neighbours in Apulia, was their tenacious resistance to external influences.



The Daunians maintained strong commercial and political relations with the Illyrian
people, controlling together the area spanning from the Dalmatia to the Gargano peninsula and
had many cultural affinities with them.


they did not mix with their neighbours in Italy ...................I cannot see why people want to or expect them to have mixed with their neighbours the Samnites

We also know they kept trading for the pottery of Dalmatia until 440BC , before deciding to create their own to trade
 
I suggest you also stop mixing AD samples with BC samples and expect some kind of affinity
 
I suggest you also stop mixing AD samples with BC samples and expect some kind of affinity

First of all, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Also, that is exactly what some people do, when they combine IA samples with Imperial era samples. Why not say that to them?
 
I suggest you also stop mixing AD samples with BC samples and expect some kind of affinity

… how about a Mother and Daughter for affinity, … 1.9 generation, but you would never guess they’re related by looking at the PCA:

ZWD9RzS.jpg
 
the paper states
For instance, we know that they were
mainly farmers, animal breeders, horsemen and maritime traders with an established trade network
extending across the sea with Illyrian tribes8–10. A fascinating aspect of this population, as opposed
to their neighbours in Apulia, was their tenacious resistance to external influences.

The Daunians maintained strong commercial and political relations with the Illyrian
people, controlling together the area spanning from the Dalmatia to the Gargano peninsula and
had many cultural affinities with them.

they did not mix with their neighbours in Italy ...................I cannot see why people want to or expect them to have mixed with their neighbours the Samnites
We also know they kept trading for the pottery of Dalmatia until 440BC , before deciding to create their own to trade

OKAY, we get it, you don't think they mixed with anyone around them, and I guess just all faded into obscurity. But why then does the same exact paper show mixed individuals among them? ORD001 is stated to be mixed with a person with Eastern influence for ****s sake!
 
First of all, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Also, that is exactly what some people do, when they combine IA samples with Imperial era samples. Why not say that to them?
Furthermore, the Minoan + Catacomb combination which is my main speculation, both existed in the Bronze Age, and went into the same places.
 
… how about a Mother and Daughter for affinity, … 1.9 generation, but you would never guess they’re related by looking at the PCA:

ZWD9RzS.jpg

There's a big issue with the ORD001 sample, because of the low-coverage. It isn't reflecting what the study presents.
 
I suggest you also stop mixing AD samples with BC samples and expect some kind of affinity

Also, it seems that you care more about these people than anyone else here. Despite the fact that these people lived in Puglia, the average Pugliese probably hasn't even heard of them, and I sure wouldn't care much about them that much either. We aren't like idiotic naturalists who think they're reincarnations of hunter-gatherers, or something equally as stupid. For as long as I can remember, people from Puglia think of themselves as having more affinity to Greeks, in addition to the Roman world. Which is exactly what we are.
 
Also, it seems that you care more about these people than anyone else here. Despite the fact that these people lived in Puglia, the average Pugliese probably hasn't even heard of them, and I sure wouldn't care much about them that much either. We aren't like idiotic naturalists who think they're reincarnations of hunter-gatherers, or something equally as stupid. For as long as I can remember, people from Puglia think of themselves as having more affinity to Greeks, in addition to the Roman world. Which is exactly what we are.
wow......so you have different "care" rates for different people, so your PCA are erred coz there is a "care" factor on how you want it to look?.............so sicilians are more a "care" for you than piedmontese ? ..................what about bretons, any "care" there?

if you are going to look at and study ancient samples.....forget about national borders.

your comments makes me now think that you "doctor" results based on who you care the most about and so reflect your ancestry ............hope this is not the case, but your comments make it lean that way.
 
OKAY, we get it, you don't think they mixed with anyone around them, and I guess just all faded into obscurity. But why then does the same exact paper show mixed individuals among them? ORD001 is stated to be mixed with a person with Eastern influence for ****s sake!

It seems to me you are getting ansy because your PCA is being questioned by others ..........................yes I questioned it 6 months earlier
 
My interest is based on ...........Salento and I share the same Ydna and both have links with this area based on other programs ....................we have been discussuing this area via Snptracker or MTA etc for over 1 year .................way way before the paper came out
 
wow......so you have different "care" rates for different people, so your PCA are erred coz there is a "care" factor on how you want it to look?.............so sicilians are more a "care" for you than piedmontese ? ..................what about bretons, any "care" there?
if you are going to look at and study ancient samples.....forget about national borders.
your comments makes me now think that you "doctor" results based on who you care the most about and so reflect your ancestry ............hope this is not the case, but your comments make it lean that way.

My results are easily replicated, if you use WGSExtract to extract the BAMs, and you run it through Admixture studio. It is not my fault you don't understand how to do that. If you accuse me of doctoring results one more time, I am going to send you out of here.

I take the time out of my day to process these samples, and I post them on here for free to ungrateful people like you. I should just keep them to myself.
 
it seems to me you are getting ansy because your pca is being questioned by others ..........................yes i questioned it 6 months earlier

The pca from the study! Not mine, is proving what you are saying is incorrect!

I Didn't create Dodecad or Eurogenes, and I am just posting the results of ORD001 that they produce.
 
Also, it seems that you care more about these people than anyone else here. Despite the fact that these people lived in Puglia, the average Pugliese probably hasn't even heard of them, and I sure wouldn't care much about them that much either. We aren't like idiotic naturalists who think they're reincarnations of hunter-gatherers, or something equally as stupid. For as long as I can remember, people from Puglia think of themselves as having more affinity to Greeks, in addition to the Roman world. Which is exactly what we are.

Knowing many Apulians in real life, it's exactly as you say.
 
It requires a certain level of intelligence, and the ability to think logically and without bias to understand population genetics, and unfortunately, some people just can't do it.

In those cases, if they aren't banned because it's at least traffic, the best option for other members is just to put them on ignore.

It saves aggravation, and has the added benefit that perhaps being deprived of attention might cause them to just go away.
 

This thread has been viewed 151080 times.

Back
Top