About 1800 to 500 bc, the earliest bronze objects were imported both from Scandinavia and the Urals. Related to Nordic Bronze Age then, but also eastern influences (Seima-Turbino?)
The Genetic Prehistory of the Baltic Sea Region
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bicicleur 2
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this is what Ted Kendall says :
https://www.facebook.com/groups/yfull/permalink/568200650209778/
detailed SNPs show that these Tarofalt samples are not an extinct bracnh, but they are ancestral to todays subclades of E-M78
there is this sample, probably E-L618
Epicardial Spain Avellaner cave, Catalonia [Ave 07] M 5000 BC E1b1b1a1b1a M35.1, V13, Ei in STR table U5 Lacan 2011b
his ancestors could have gotten from Tarofalt to Iberia and mixed with incoming Cardial Ware people
but there are also these samples :
Impresso pottery Croatia Zemunica Cave [I3948] M 5600-5470 BCE E1b1b1a1b1 (E-L618) N1a1 Mathieson 2017 769991
Sopot (proto Lengyel) Hungary Bicske-Galagonyás [BICS 4] 5000-4800 BC E1b1b1a1 M78 H39 Szécsényi-Nagy 2015 thesis
how could they have gotten there?
sorry - wrong thread
https://www.facebook.com/groups/yfull/permalink/568200650209778/
detailed SNPs show that these Tarofalt samples are not an extinct bracnh, but they are ancestral to todays subclades of E-M78
there is this sample, probably E-L618
Epicardial Spain Avellaner cave, Catalonia [Ave 07] M 5000 BC E1b1b1a1b1a M35.1, V13, Ei in STR table U5 Lacan 2011b
his ancestors could have gotten from Tarofalt to Iberia and mixed with incoming Cardial Ware people
but there are also these samples :
Impresso pottery Croatia Zemunica Cave [I3948] M 5600-5470 BCE E1b1b1a1b1 (E-L618) N1a1 Mathieson 2017 769991
Sopot (proto Lengyel) Hungary Bicske-Galagonyás [BICS 4] 5000-4800 BC E1b1b1a1 M78 H39 Szécsényi-Nagy 2015 thesis
how could they have gotten there?
sorry - wrong thread
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bicicleur 2
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berbers#Origins
Uniparental DNA analysis has established ties between Berbers and other Afroasiatic speakers in Africa. Most of these populations belong to the E1b1b paternal haplogroup, with Berber speakers having among the highest frequencies of this lineage.[54] Additionally, genomic analysis has found that Berber and other Maghreb communities are defined by a shared ancestral component. This Maghrebi element peaks among Tunisian Berbers.[55] It is related to the Coptic/Ethio-Somali, having diverged from these and other West Eurasian-affiliated components prior to the Holocene.[56]
about Ethio-Somali :
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004393&type=printable
Early Back-to-Africa Migration into the Horn of Africa
Genetic studies have identified substantial non-African admixture in the Horn of Africa (HOA). In the most recent genomic
studies, this non-African ancestry has been attributed to admixture with Middle Eastern populations during the last few
thousand years. However, mitochondrial and Y chromosome data are suggestive of earlier episodes of admixture. To
investigate this further, we generated new genome-wide SNP data for a Yemeni population sample and merged these new
data with published genome-wide genetic data from the HOA and a broad selection of surrounding populations. We used
multidimensional scaling and ADMIXTURE methods in an exploratory data analysis to develop hypotheses on admixture
and population structure in HOA populations. These analyses suggested that there might be distinct, differentiated African
and non-African ancestries in the HOA. After partitioning the SNP data into African and non-African origin chromosome
segments, we found support for a distinct African (Ethiopic) ancestry and a distinct non-African (Ethio-Somali) ancestry in
HOA populations. The African Ethiopic ancestry is tightly restricted to HOA populations and likely represents an
autochthonous HOA population. The non-African ancestry in the HOA, which is primarily attributed to a novel Ethio-Somali
inferred ancestry component, is significantly differentiated from all neighboring non-African ancestries in North Africa, the
Levant, and Arabia. The Ethio-Somali ancestry is found in all admixed HOA ethnic groups, shows little inter-individual
variance within these ethnic groups, is estimated to have diverged from all other non-African ancestries by at least 23 ka,
and does not carry the unique Arabian lactase persistence allele that arose about 4 ka. Taking into account published
mitochondrial, Y chromosome, paleoclimate, and archaeological data, we find that the time of the Ethio-Somali back-toAfrica
migration is most likely pre-agricultural.
so there would have been a large late paleolithical dispersal of Natufian-like E1b1b1 all over North Africa of which Berber is a remnant
sorry - wrong thread
Uniparental DNA analysis has established ties between Berbers and other Afroasiatic speakers in Africa. Most of these populations belong to the E1b1b paternal haplogroup, with Berber speakers having among the highest frequencies of this lineage.[54] Additionally, genomic analysis has found that Berber and other Maghreb communities are defined by a shared ancestral component. This Maghrebi element peaks among Tunisian Berbers.[55] It is related to the Coptic/Ethio-Somali, having diverged from these and other West Eurasian-affiliated components prior to the Holocene.[56]
about Ethio-Somali :
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004393&type=printable
Early Back-to-Africa Migration into the Horn of Africa
Genetic studies have identified substantial non-African admixture in the Horn of Africa (HOA). In the most recent genomic
studies, this non-African ancestry has been attributed to admixture with Middle Eastern populations during the last few
thousand years. However, mitochondrial and Y chromosome data are suggestive of earlier episodes of admixture. To
investigate this further, we generated new genome-wide SNP data for a Yemeni population sample and merged these new
data with published genome-wide genetic data from the HOA and a broad selection of surrounding populations. We used
multidimensional scaling and ADMIXTURE methods in an exploratory data analysis to develop hypotheses on admixture
and population structure in HOA populations. These analyses suggested that there might be distinct, differentiated African
and non-African ancestries in the HOA. After partitioning the SNP data into African and non-African origin chromosome
segments, we found support for a distinct African (Ethiopic) ancestry and a distinct non-African (Ethio-Somali) ancestry in
HOA populations. The African Ethiopic ancestry is tightly restricted to HOA populations and likely represents an
autochthonous HOA population. The non-African ancestry in the HOA, which is primarily attributed to a novel Ethio-Somali
inferred ancestry component, is significantly differentiated from all neighboring non-African ancestries in North Africa, the
Levant, and Arabia. The Ethio-Somali ancestry is found in all admixed HOA ethnic groups, shows little inter-individual
variance within these ethnic groups, is estimated to have diverged from all other non-African ancestries by at least 23 ka,
and does not carry the unique Arabian lactase persistence allele that arose about 4 ka. Taking into account published
mitochondrial, Y chromosome, paleoclimate, and archaeological data, we find that the time of the Ethio-Somali back-toAfrica
migration is most likely pre-agricultural.
so there would have been a large late paleolithical dispersal of Natufian-like E1b1b1 all over North Africa of which Berber is a remnant
sorry - wrong thread
Last edited by a moderator:
Newbie, but I have a quick question since this thread is all about the R's.
My Y-Haplogroup is R-Z92 according to 23&me. I think R1a is R-M420 and R is RM207, so maybe they're sibling branches, but some of the haplogroup websites don't list an R- and others don't list a R1a-
So, my take is that R and R1a are siblings?
My Dad's R-Z92 parents came from NE Poland, near the village of Charubin, a mere rock throw from the Baltic.
Do y'all have any additional info on the R (R-M207) haplogroup?
Thanks, Joe
LOL as a newbie I had to edit a link out of YOUR post to get this to post.
Quoting myself, I've learned that R (R-M207) is an ancestor of R1a and also that R-Z92 is an ancestor of R1a-Z92, which makes sense, but I didn't know much when I typed the previous message
