• Don't want to see ads? Install an adblocker like uBlock Origin or use a Europe-based privacy-friendly browser like Vivaldi or Mullvad.

The genomic history of southeastern Europe-Mathiesen et al

LeBrok said:
I can't explain it by any other way than a mass migration/invasion from Anatolia/Armenia. The amount of Caucasian needed to explain is huge, and it is in short supply in Yamnaya/Steppe.

I would say so, because CW and Unetice is very different and contain a lot of Steppe/Yamnaya.

I wish I knew for sure that if they say Steppe they know it is Steppe, and not just CHG admixture. Because if it is the latter then it could easily came from Anatolia to Balkans and not through the Steppe cultures.
Click to expand...
Perhaps some also to steppe cultures early on, through the Balkans? At least some of it ? Is that even possible?

I can't think; I'm too tired. Like Scarlet O'Hara in Gone With The Wind, I'll think about it tomorrow. : )
 
I know everyone's like a deer in the headlights right now, but the Sredny Stog and the Yamnaya Ukraine genomes are a big deal.

I must give myself a little credit as I've been saying this all along, but look at the autosomes of late Sredny Stog and Yamnaya Ukraine. We're seeing the genesis of Corded Ware and Late Bronze Age Steppe. It's not just my theory anymore.

We all know that Corded Ware and the LBA Steppe have EEF that wasn't in Yamnaya. It wasn't obvious where and when this EEF spread throughout the steppe. We only saw it in Corded Ware and then it suddenly covered the entire steppe at the end of the bronze age. Now we can see the origin, which is augmented by what looks like proto-corded ware pottery in the latter stages of Sredny Stog.

Bam
 
LeBrok said:
I can't explain it by any other way than a mass migration/invasion from Anatolia/Armenia. The amount of Caucasian needed to explain is huge, and it is in short supply in Yamnaya/Steppe.

I would say so, because CW and Unetice is very different and contain a lot of Steppe/Yamnaya.

I wish I knew for sure that if they say Steppe they know it is Steppe, and not just CHG admixture. Because if it is the latter then it could easily came from Anatolia to Balkans and not through the Steppe cultures.
Click to expand...

Well we know that CHG/Iranian_Neo moved into Anatolia in the Chalcolithic from the Genetic Structure of The First Farmers Paper, so it's not a huge stretch to see this in the Balkans.

The SE Europe paper is using Yamnaya for steppe. The orange in the admixture plot is in-fact steppe.
 
Angela said:
Perhaps some also to steppe cultures early on, through the Balkans? At least some of it ? Is that even possible?

I can't think; I'm too tired. Like Scarlet O'Hara in Gone With The Wind, I'll think about it tomorrow. : )
Click to expand...
My model doesn't need it to explain, but I doubt it is a complete model, and I would be surprised if there was no steppe admixture in Balkans, even only through mixing Yamnaya with CT culture. I'm almost sure the researches included all CHG which came through Balkans also as Steppe admixture.
I wish I could check all the samples they introduced now in GedMatch admixtures.


Sorry, I just notice a mistake. This above admixture modeling is for RB2. Which is late Bronze Age in Hungary. RB1 is with low caucasian and looks like 40/60 EEF/WHG, no baloch no steppe. Later we see some Baloch showing and jump in Caucasian, though all of them are fairly similar, with Anatolian/Armenia influance. The big change came in Iron Age with invasion from NE, the steppe arrived. Baloch and NE Euro like in CW/Unetice like, and lower Med. Thracians?

[TABLE="width: 656"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 58"]F999933[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 77, colspan: 2"]BR2, J-M67[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 58"]M681225[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 58"]BR1[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 19"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 116, colspan: 2"]M631469 RISE349[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 19"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 58"]M974598 [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 77, colspan: 2"]RISE374 and 373[/TD]
[TD="class: xl168, width: 58"]F999929[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 58"]IR1, N-M231[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl162"]Hungary, Ludas-Varjú-dűlő,[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]3.3kya[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]EBA Hungary[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 77, colspan: 2"]1,980–2,190 BC[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 135, colspan: 3"] Hungary MBA [2034-1748 BC] T2b3 -[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 135, colspan: 3"]Maros Hungary [1866-1619 BC] T2 G2a-P287>P15>PF3178[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]IR Hungary[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]900 BC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Run time[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]15.13[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Run time[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]10.55[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Run time[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]3.16[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Run time[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]5.26[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Run time[/TD]
[TD="class: xl265, align: right"] 6.96 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]3.15[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]5.64[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]14.83[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]14.73[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]5.45[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]13.81[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]18.58[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]15.12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]46.18[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]56.15[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]38.22[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]39.65[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]43.91[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]0.49[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]2.97[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]0.18[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]American[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]American[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]American[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]American[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]American[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]2.03[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]31.73[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]34.48[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]34.63[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]40.09[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]21.14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]3.33[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]3.1[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]3.94[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]0.98[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]San[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]San[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]San[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]San[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]0.17[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]San[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]E-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]E-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]E-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]E-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]E-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]0.15[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]- [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]W-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]0.48[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]W-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]W-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]3.75[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]W-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]0.39[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]W-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
holderlin said:
Dereivka is a Sredy Stog site. We have a bunch of Y DNA, I'm only seeing one autosomal sample in the admixture runs though, from a late period.
Click to expand...

Then their dating is wrong because they mention 5500-4800 BCE for Dereivka and Sredny Stog is 4500-3500 BCE. Any none of the three Dereivka samples have anything to do with Yamna. They belong to R1*, R1b1* and I2a2. None of these could be ancestral for R1b1a1a2a (L23). In fact there wasn't even any P297 in Neolithic Ukraine like those found in Mesolithic Latvia. It's just a coincidence that the Mesolithic/Neolithic Ukrainian also possessed some R1b lineages. But in fact Yamna R1b-L23 or Z2103 is close to the African R1b-V88 than to R1* or R1b1*. At least both L23 and V88 descend from L754.
 
Angela said:
"[TABLE="class: cms_table, width: 278"]
[TR]
[TD]The Anatolia Neolithic to Anatolia Bronze Age shift is driven by changes in CHG and Iran Neolithc ancestry not by migration from Steppe populations that have EHG ancestry[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...

That's easily explained by the Kura-Araxes expansion. Like the Yamna expansion, people from the Kura-Araxes culture left the boundaries of the actual culture and spread in every direction, IMO going as far west as the Balkans and Crete (Minoan civilisation) and as far east as Pakistan (Harappa civilization). Those migrations increased CHG and brought with them mostly J2a1 lineages and to a lower extent also G2a1 (L293), J1a2a (Z1828) and T1a-P77. All those lineages are found in Crete, by the way. There might have been some L1a and some old R1b subclades too, but they were minor lineages, just like in the South Caucasus today.

The Hungarian BA J2a1 from the Kyatice culture belongs to the Y11202 clade, which is found chiefly in the Caucasus. Therefore I believe that he also descended from the Kura-Araxes expansion.
 
MOESAN said:
bicicleur said:
MOESAN said:
If you read well one of my posts I wrote the Cardial people were physically partly distinct from the most of Balkans farmers: so yes some differences in proportions of lineages could explain this - but we need more Y-DNA from diverse cardial places (and rather before too much crossings with local WHG's) to assert this - I agree with you some Y-E1b could have been found in more than a group but I believe the proportions (%) between Y-G2a and Y-E1b were not the same ; I would bet very much more E1b among PPNB - cardial people having taken maritime+littoral routes westwards could have implied some mix of PPNB and farmers more anatolianlike spite staying rather anatolianlike -
Click to expand...
Could you elaborate more on the physical distinction? I'd appreciate that. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
holderlin said:
I know everyone's like a deer in the headlights right now, but the Sredny Stog and the Yamnaya Ukraine genomes are a big deal.

I must give myself a little credit as I've been saying this all along, but look at the autosomes of late Sredny Stog and Yamnaya Ukraine. We're seeing the genesis of Corded Ware and Late Bronze Age Steppe. It's not just my theory anymore.

We all know that Corded Ware and the LBA Steppe have EEF that wasn't in Yamnaya. It wasn't obvious where and when this EEF spread throughout the steppe. We only saw it in Corded Ware and then it suddenly covered the entire steppe at the end of the bronze age. Now we can see the origin, which is augmented by what looks like proto-corded ware pottery in the latter stages of Sredny Stog.

Bam
Click to expand...

Yes you are right. Now I also see that Vovnigi and Derevka are the most likely candidates for PIE.
These people from the Vovnigi and the Dereivka probably ancestors of all the existing Indo-European peoples.
8ed96e825fbe.jpg


CW and BB (geneticly and partly culturaly in BB case) probably come from there. And even the historical Hittites, which some researchers derive from the Sredniy Stog. And languages we are speaking now, began to disintegrate precisely there and in those times. The rest of the vast territory of possible PIE languages ​​(as the eastern yamnaya), did not have offspring of historical IE speakers. Therefore, we can not say in what language they spoke, although their cultural characteristics were identical to IE.

The source of these burials Vovnigi and Derevka is somewhere on the Popovo-Zvejnieki mesolite line.
Apparently, there began process of absorbing EEF genes, which are presented in CW.
Probably, they took women as trophies during the devastating raids on the neighboring Tripolye and the killing of their population.

Therefore, the people of Corded Ware:
-the presence of EEF genes
-pronounced horizontal profiling of the face in the upper part (more pronounced than in their Mesolithic ancestors)
-prevalence farmer-Middle Eastern mtDNa in all descendants of CW in Europe.
- burial form as "tower of silence" among the Iranians, has its roots in the Tripolye and possibly introduced by the Trypollian women in Indo-European culture (although, it could be just borrowing)

Also worth noting, from here probably there is an old confusion among paleoanthroologists, who indicates that people of CWC are often metrically similar to the Mediterranean.
 
Last edited:
Aaron1981 said:
Modern Anatolia is more than just EEF + Iran_Neo/CHG though. A lot of upheavals and changes happened to the Mid East in the later Bronze Age, perhaps with the entrance of the Hittites. Suddenly R1b appears, and no, it's not from central asian Turks.
Click to expand...

Modern Anatolia is more than just EEF+ Iran_Neo/CHG not neccessary because of the Bronze Age but predominantly because of the Iron and Middle Ages. many Steppe and Central Asian groups moved into Anatolia during that timeframe (Cimmerians, Sarmatians, Alans, Scythians, Mitanni-Medes-Parthians, Persians, Seljuks-Ottomans).
 
LeBrok said:
I found a model I did few months ago when deciphering composition of Hungarian BA. I couldn't get it right without lots of Caucasian admixture. Here is one with 15% of Chalcolithic Armenian. Also it works well with Anatolian Chalcolithic, because they were quite similar.
So, first 3 are the source with proportions at the top, 4th is the composed model, and 5th actual Hungarian Bronze to compare how close I got. Almost a perfect match!

[TABLE="width: 693"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 57, align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 17"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 64, align: right"]0.35[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 14"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 64, align: right"]0.15[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 13"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 64"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]M325047[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]KO1[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]M536324[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]I1658[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Modeled[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]Hungarian, h-g[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]7.7 kya[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 128, colspan: 2"]NE7 Hungary[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 128, colspan: 2"]Armenia EBA[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 128, colspan: 2"]BA Hungary[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 128, colspan: 2"]BR1 Hungary[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]Run time[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]9.43[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 128, colspan: 2"]Population[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Run time[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]8.22[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Run time[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, width: 128, colspan: 2"]Population[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0.27[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0.0405[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]25.53[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]3.8295[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]3.15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]19.04[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]56.75[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]15.1765[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]14.73[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]80.37[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]16.69[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]4.79[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]46.745[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]46.18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0.53[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0.265[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0.18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]American[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]American[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]American[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]American[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]American[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]18.59[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]56.18[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]5.88[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]29.84[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]31.73[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]7.96[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]6.45[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]3.7535[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]3.33[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]San[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]San[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]San[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]San[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]San[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]E-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]E-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]E-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]E-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]E-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl242"]W-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]W-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0.11[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]W-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0.33[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]W-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0.338[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl242"]W-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl242, align: right"]0.48[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...
The Caucasian in this calculator is based on modern samples from the Caucasus and not to be confused with CHG. Otherwise good finding there.
 
Maciamo said:
Then their dating is wrong because they mention 5500-4800 BCE for Dereivka and Sredny Stog is 4500-3500 BCE. Any none of the three Dereivka samples have anything to do with Yamna. They belong to R1*, R1b1* and I2a2. None of these could be ancestral for R1b1a1a2a (L23). In fact there wasn't even any P297 in Neolithic Ukraine like those found in Mesolithic Latvia. It's just a coincidence that the Mesolithic/Neolithic Ukrainian also possessed some R1b lineages. But in fact Yamna R1b-L23 or Z2103 is close to the African R1b-V88 than to R1* or R1b1*. At least both L23 and V88 descend from L754.
Click to expand...

Dereivka is THE Sredny Stog site. Without it you wouldn't have much of a Sredny Stog, and the range is fine. As far as I know Sredny Stog is known from as early as 5500BC.

I'm looking at the autosomes of both Sredny Stog and Yamnaya Ukraine. Yamnaya Ukraine would be the earliest example of EEF influx into steppe, but it's rooted in Sredny Stog which show this influx into a different substrate. The material culture of Sredny Stog is identical to Khvalynsk. Have you seen comparisons of the artifacts?

And they don't even list any Y HGs for the Yamnaya Ukraine samples, so we don't know yet.
 
Maciamo could you update the J2b2 history please as you say that it hasn't been found in Europe but in fact it was during this study?
 
Edit: I see that it has been updated lol sorry
 
Angela said:
Some of the modelers insist it's pure CHG, which would have to have been hiding out for thousands of years somewhere totally unchanged. Patterson, at least, seems to have the patience to occasionally sift through all those nonsense posts on Eurogenes. I would bet he's seen the discussions, and yet he's one of the authors of this paper and the paper very clearly says:

"[TABLE="class: cms_table, width: 278"]
[TR]
[TD]The Anatolia Neolithic to Anatolia Bronze Age shift is driven by changes in CHG and Iran Neolithc ancestry not by migration from Steppe populations that have EHG ancestry[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE="class: cms_table, width: 278"]
[TR]
[TD]An increase in CHG/Iran_N in Chalcolithic Anatolia is mirrored by a similar shift in the Balkans Chalcolithic, but not in Central Europe or Iberia Middle Neolithic"[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


I would place more faith in the people who created some of these algorithms than people who just try to use them, even the ones who are well intentioned. Either way, it's a highly "Basal Eurasian" component.

The Lazaridis paper is the one which formulated it as a mix of EHG and something like Iran Chalcolithic, so perhaps the new Lazaridis paper will clarify matters.
Click to expand...
I wonder if Patterson would be so polite if he knew that Eurogenes goes on sites like Biodiversity and calls their work excrement...nice.:useless: Read Patterson's CV and his accomplishments. How does Eurogenes' knowledge of statistics and these programs, many of them created by these people, compare?
 
LeBrok said:
My model doesn't need it to explain, but I doubt it is a complete model, and I would be surprised if there was no steppe admixture in Balkans, even only through mixing Yamnaya with CT culture. I'm almost sure the researches included all CHG which came through Balkans also as Steppe admixture.
I wish I could check all the samples they introduced now in GedMatch admixtures.


Sorry, I just notice a mistake. This above admixture modeling is for RB2. Which is late Bronze Age in Hungary. RB1 is with low caucasian and looks like 40/60 EEF/WHG, no baloch no steppe. Later we see some Baloch showing and jump in Caucasian, though all of them are fairly similar, with Anatolian/Armenia influance. The big change came in Iron Age with invasion from NE, the steppe arrived. Baloch and NE Euro like in CW/Unetice like, and lower Med. Thracians?

[TABLE="width: 656"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 58"]F999933[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 77, colspan: 2"]BR2, J-M67[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 58"]M681225[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 58"]BR1[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 19"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 116, colspan: 2"]M631469 RISE349[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 19"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 58"]M974598[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 77, colspan: 2"]RISE374 and 373[/TD]
[TD="class: xl168, width: 58"]F999929[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 58"]IR1, N-M231[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl162"]Hungary, Ludas-Varjú-dűlő,[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]3.3kya[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]EBA Hungary[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 77, colspan: 2"]1,980–2,190 BC[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 135, colspan: 3"] Hungary MBA [2034-1748 BC] T2b3 -[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, width: 135, colspan: 3"]Maros Hungary [1866-1619 BC] T2 G2a-P287>P15>PF3178[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]IR Hungary[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]900 BC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Run time[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]15.13[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Run time[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]10.55[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Run time[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]3.16[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Run time[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]5.26[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Run time[/TD]
[TD="class: xl265, align: right"] 6.96[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]3.15[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]5.64[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]14.83[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]14.73[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]5.45[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]13.81[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]18.58[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]15.12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]46.18[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]56.15[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]38.22[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]39.65[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]43.91[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]0.49[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]2.97[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]0.18[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]American[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]American[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]American[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]American[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]American[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]2.03[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]31.73[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]34.48[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]34.63[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]40.09[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]21.14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]3.33[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]3.1[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]3.94[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]0.98[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]San[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]San[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]San[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]San[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]0.17[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]San[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]E-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]E-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]E-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]E-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]E-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]0.15[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl168"]W-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]0.48[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"]W-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162, align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]W-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]3.75[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]W-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]0.39[/TD]
[TD="class: xl162"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl168"]W-African[/TD]
[TD="class: xl169"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...

So BR1 with little or no steppe, and BR2 which can be modeled with Anatolia Ch or Armenia Ch instead of steppe? Does anyone have d based stats for these samples, or Admixture based on actual ancient samples? We'd also need some with Anatolia Ch etc in place of steppe and the fits for all of them.
 
Alpenjager said:
Karsdorf Map
View attachment 8680

Malak Preslavets Map
View attachment 8681
Click to expand...

The highest EHG+WHG percentage belonging to the Early Balkan Neolithic is a T1a1a individual from Malak Preslavets with 35%
The lowest EHG+WHG from Malak Preslavets is a G2a2b2a individual with 0%

This show extreme differences among individuals from a same settlement in a same time period.
 
Alpenjager said:
The highest EHG+WHG percentage belonging to the Early Balkan Neolithic is a T1a1a from Malak Preslavets with 35%
The lowest EHG+WHG from Malak Preslavets is a G2a2b2a with 0%

This show extreme differences among individuals from a same settlement in a same time period.
Click to expand...
If you look at the whole Balkans in Admixture theres very little sharing of genetic material in the Neolithic. There weren't many hg there to begin with. Where there were some communities there was a little admixture.

I have to correct something I said upthread. I said there was a sex bias in favor of hg women in the early Neolithic. There wasn't.

"In the Balkan Neolithic there is no evidence of sex bias using ancestry estimates obtained from qpAdm (Z=-0.65 where a positive Z-score implies male hunter-gatherer bias), nor in the LBK and Iberian_Early Neolithic (Z=-0.24 and 1.04). However, in the Middle Neolithic and later populations, this effect reverses. In the Balkan Copper Age there is weak evidence of bias (Z=1.77) but in Iberia and central Europe Middle Neolithic there is clear bias is in favor of male hunter-gatherer ancestry (Z=2.98, and 2.77 in Iberia Copper Age and central European Middle Neolithic). This result is independently supported by uniparental markers (Figure 3C). Proportions of typically hunter-gatherer mitochondrial haplogroups (haplogroup U)are low in all populations and within theintervals of genome-wide ancestry proportions.

The merging of hunter-gatherer and farmer populations was a dynamic process that unfolded over thousands of years, and proceeded in a profoundly different way in different parts of Europe. Our analysis shows that in some places – for example at Malak Preslavets in Bulgaria – there was extensive mixing between hunter-gatherers and farmers, likely driven by the high local hunter-gatherer population density. In other places–in particular in western, central and northern Europe–hunter-gatherers and farmers lived in close proximity for long periods of time with minimal mixture . When they did finally mix, we find evidence that the hunter- gather admixture was male-biased, implying a different dynamic. Farming was initially unable to expand widely in central and northern Europe because early farming techniques were only suitable for specific regions within the loess belt of the northern European plain. 431 Thus, northern and central European hunter-gatherers were protected from the demographicimpact of farming migrations, resulting in persistent frontiers between farmers and hunter gatherers."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top