The geographical concept of Europe mirrors the genetic concept of Europe

[Yetos]

I don't know where you get the terms but Americans call middle east Israel, Palestine, Iraq, S Arabia, Syria, Jordan
Near East Turkey, Armenia, Cyprus

Oh really?

the term are ancient,
and Desert Storm what was it?

A Far East campaign?


old Middle east

old Near East

Today the terms are different from the times of WW1 and Arabian revolt


Armenia today is not Near East any more,
it is TransCaucasia -us part of old Middle East.

the dismmis of USSR as also the entrance of Turkey to OTAN
gave new terminations but cores remain the same

 

[Jovialis]

Also the Middle East ancestors of Europeans might have been significantly different than any of the important ancestors of any people in the Middle East today. "EEF" is especially seems to have been something unique which mostly contributed to Europeans instead of any Near Easterners.

I wonder how much admixture from other ancient hominids humans have. Right now, we can detect traces of Neanderthal and Denosivan. I bet were going to find other types of different early hominid species, when it's possible to identify it.

Maybe EEF share more genes with Neanderthal, than the ones that stayed in the middle east. Or perhaps the ones in the middle east absorbed genes from various different early hominids. Maybe, both of those scenarios are the case.

EDIT:

This is from another thread that discusses the ancient ancestry of the middle eastern region:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34129-First-Genomes-from-Ancient-Egypt/page5

I'm assuming the EEF are descended from the dark blue component which represents Neolithic Anatolia.

Edit:

In the Middle East, the Anatolian farmers intermixed with the indigenous population there. we can see that the ancient Iranians had a big impact on DNA over time. Yoruba is usually, the next largest component that modern populations acquired overtime. As well as other minor contributions, particularly in North Africa.

The EEF from Neolithic Anatolia, that went west towards Europe intermixed with the WHG, and steppe Horsemen, primarily.

 

[Jovialis]

I've geographically arranged the data for the modern populations the middle east and Europe, according to these articles by Nature:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/fig_tab/nature14317_F3.html
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694/

 

[Tomenable]

More: http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/07/europeans-genetically-homogeneous-on.html

Map: https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-doi5Hv3F...6QCLcBGAs/s1600/Map_effective_migrations.jpeg

 

[IronSide]

Also the Middle East ancestors of Europeans might have been significantly different than any of the important ancestors of any people in the Middle East today. "EEF" is especially seems to have been something unique which mostly contributed to Europeans instead of any Near Easterners.

EEF (Early European Farmer) is not specific to Europe only, Levantines, Caucasians, Iranians, and North Africans all have significant levels of this kind of ancestry.

But I agree, the geographic concept of Europe does mirror the genetic concept of Europe. a European cline of ancestry is separate from and parallel to the West Asian cline of ancestry, the first dimension of the usual West Eurasian PCA.

I've always wondered, why aren't North Africans (Egyptians, Morrocans), and some central Asian groups (Turkmens, Pathans), not included in this PCA? why is it focusing on Europe and West Asia only?

 

[LeBrok]

EEF (Early European Farmer) is not specific to Europe only, Levantines, Caucasians, Iranians, and North Africans all have significant levels of this kind of ancestry.

But I agree, the geographic concept of Europe does mirror the genetic concept of Europe. a European cline of ancestry is separate from and parallel to the West Asian cline of ancestry, the first dimension of the usual West Eurasian PCA.

?

Sure, we have two distinct groups to slap the labels on, but how to call all the people in between?

 

[IronSide]

Sure, we have two distinct groups to slap the labels on, but how to call all the people in between?

A good question, but the people in between are very few in number, Jewish groups that formed relatively recently, and east Mediterranean islanders.

They may not be few if you include North Africans, a true Mediterranean cline would form in the middle, I wonder why they're not included.

 

[Angela]

North African population history is very different and not yet completely understood. We knew even less when most of these PCA's were done.

Plus, because SSA ancestry is very distinct, around 20% of it, which is often the average in North Africa, pulls them very far away from West Eurasia. You'd have to pull all the way back to see it.

Not that they aren't majority West Eurasian, it seems.

 

[IronSide]

North African population history is very different and not yet completely understood. We knew even less when most of these PCA's were done.

Plus, because SSA ancestry is very distinct, around 20% of it, which is often the average in North Africa, pulls them very far away from West Eurasia. You'd have to pull all the way back to see it.

Not that they aren't majority West Eurasian, it seems.

Ah, so because 20% SSA, where does the line stop though? Saudis and Palestinians also have SSA.

Interesting how North African Jews don't have SSA, because of the recent Iberomaurusian paper I thought most of SSA in North Africa is Ancient, and if you argue that Jewish groups formed as a mixture of an old Levantine Jewish population and a host population, you would expect North African Jews to have SSA, but they don't.

Is there any possibility that they didn't mix, and therefore the original Levantine Israelites would look like them autosomally? they're very Mediterranean shifted compared to other Near Easterners.

 

[Angela]

Ah, so because 20% SSA, where does the line stop though? Saudis and Palestinians also have SSA.

Interesting how North African Jews don't have SSA, because of the recent Iberomaurusian paper I thought most of SSA in North Africa is Ancient, and if you argue that Jewish groups formed as a mixture of an old Levantine Jewish population and a host population, you would expect North African Jews to have SSA, but they don't.

Is there any possibility that they didn't mix, and therefore the original Levantine Israelites would look like them autosomally? they're very Mediterranean shifted compared to other Near Easterners.

Saudis have much less, though, yes? Single digits? Even then, on regular PCAs you can see how the Bedouin and Saudis form that long tail cluster. A lot of North Africans, although certainly not all, are what Americans used to call quadroons.

I don't think anyone knows how many Maghrebi Jews there were, or remained, after all the turmoil following the end of the Empire and the advance of the Muslim forces, and we also don't know their genetic make-up autosomally, so we don't know if they picked up any SSA, but my guess is that they did. Regardless, whatever Berber and accompanying SSA was absorbed would have been diluted by admixture with Iberian Jews who settled there after the expulsions, although differences persisted for a long time. However, you can see the traces of it in North African Jews in some analyses, and in Sephardic Jews who inter-married with them. They're an extremely endogamous bunch the North African Jews, though. There's even sub-structure in terms of Moroccan vs. Tunisian or Algerian Jews, for example.

Since there was some admixture between Sephardi and Ashkenazi some Ashkenazim get about 1% as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_African_Sephardim#History_of_North_African_Jews

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3427049/

I think this is originally from Lazaridis et al 2014:

 

[Georgewalley]

There's a huge genetic difference Malaga and Ceuta. Less so, but noticeable difference between Sofia and Istanbul. There's no difference between the Western (European part) of Urals vs the Eastern part of Urals.