The movement of Ignidants all over the world,

[Yetos]

the salvation army

a goverment is supposed to help people in many ways,

the package of food is indeed irony or tragedy

the problem of modern democracies is that they are elected by people, and remember them only at election times,
no it is not the Banks the power of a governor,
but the people, who elect him,
ancient Greeks had ostracism, something that must be added in modern also, at least my opinion,


if I follow Banking system and modern capitalism then one solution exist,
make my people either India and all are in depth, either china and all work for party,
view my post #27 the video.
at roman times governors married the army
at cold war times governors married the media
today they are married the bankers,

the problem of modern democracies is that politicians take loans from banks to make their advertisement
and then they pay by giving them privileges.

Banks must be tools in a modern society, and not the head

there is something I like to mention as 2 measures on how goverment think,
when Lehman brothers boom I read somewhere that the chief managers and the consuls etc will be paid but the simple worker will be not, but they take an aid by state,

if that is truth it is the most outreagous and disqusting think ever done,
and offcourse if the ruler accept is also a ...

in another post I wrote about Proton Bank in greece,
the owner 'took' >750 000 000 E
the owner went to be judged
the owner pays 51 000 000 E and the owner is free, mo trial,
ok
I starve, I steal a salami, if I return half will I be Free?

 

[Cimmerianbloke]

Banks only provide the means for people to afford what they wish, whatever useless it is. Markets are based on supply and demand, and value is what a person is ready to pay to acquire something, regardless of the disproportion of the gap between real value and price. Banks do not put a gun on people's head to sign for a loan or a mortgage they cannot afford. If banks greed is part of the problem (and I agree with that) as people's foolishness also is, sitting in a park and bitching about banks and governments is not part of the solution. To those who do not see the links between the actual crisis and the emerging markets competition, changing the source of your information might be a good place to start. Try The Economist...

 

[Yetos]

Banks only provide the means for people to afford what they wish, whatever useless it is. Markets are based on supply and demand, and value is what a person is ready to pay to acquire something, regardless of the disproportion of the gap between real value and price. Banks do not put a gun on people's head to sign for a loan or a mortgage they cannot afford. If banks greed is part of the problem (and I agree with that) as people's foolishness also is, sitting in a park and bitching about banks and governments is not part of the solution. To those who do not see the links between the actual crisis and the emerging markets competition, changing the source of your information might be a good place to start. Try The Economist...

Banks gather the people save and destroy them that is why the give interest,
Banks 'give' money to parties and politicians to avoid people's living and support their demands,
Bankers become richer with my money and same time they destroy my work,
Banks support illegal immigration and slave merchants cause they want cheaper workers,
Banks do not care for a state or a goverment, they can create another,
Banks own the media and they brain wash us that we are rich, while same time we born 1 kid or none cause we can afford to raise them,

soon Banks will ask you to pay for your savings,

Bank is a tool, yet today's world in order to say which country is best they show bank's not how people live,


My suggestion is in order to avoid the masters and slaves world, we need the 3 lvl middle class,
so in order to survive take back your savings from banks,
try to stop buying bubble money and toxic pappers and mainly stop consuming carbage,

 

[Mzungu mchagga]

Have you already closed your bank account and withdrawn all your money?

 

[Yetos]

Have you already closed your bank account and withdrawn all your money?

yes since 4 years

and I am angry cause goverment force me to pay 0.6 E extra cause some kinds of taxes and some rest must paid first in bank,

I keep only 300 E that is the limit so not to close the account

 

[Yetos]

Ok, first, I believe to know that your user-command to stop "toxic papers" was adressed only to Cimmerianbloke, and it rassure me. Be knowing that making bold charachters has no efficience, for the reason that a constructed argumentation make automatically this "bold" in the mind of people.

So:
I believe to understand that your question:
"Since when a goverment is a 'salvation army'?"
was ironical.

If this is indeed so, so it seem to go in opposition with one another of your such questions, knowing:
"the old European moto of Kings, By God's mercy,
Later become My power is the LOVE of my people
today is what? my power is the Banks and the corporations? ".

In particular, I find this question very relevant;
but unfortunately, in the practice, we are forced to see that "My power is the Banks and corporations ?" seem - pratically - to be frequently true.
For the reason, which I would like to disapprove if could, that "Love" is not quantifiable, when the reason of money is quantifiable, indeed by this money itself.

But you seem to be right: this is a malediction, to which I have this time no answer.

the most recent is Libya
Kadafi had banks
kadafi had gold
kadafi had army
so kadafi was powerfull

was he?

 

[ElHorsto]

the word is clear, transparency among goverment and Banks,

the theory of Caynes that build Europe might seen alien to some,
but is European inheritage, and without it, Europe will be nothing more Europe,
and the one's who dream that will Europe back to james Watt ages, remember that your sons will might live there,

STOP the creation of Bubble money and toxic pappers,

if a family is collapsed today nobody cares,
But if a bank collapse all goverment try to support

Neo-liberian must have the same measures with people as they have with Banks,

Although I agree with most of what you said, I just wonder somewhat whether Keynes theory might be at least partially responsible for exactly the problems you describe. It accumulates problems under the carpet. Besides Keynes strategy seems impossible in practice. How can government save money during boom and spend during recession, if nobody knows when the boom or recession is the real one? Its almost like predicting prices in the stock market. Maybe Keynes leads us even more into dependency of banks. However I'm not claiming to know a better solution. If someone can enlighten me, go for it.

 

[Cimmerianbloke]

State-controlled banks are not the solution (states are up to their nose in debts, proof management is dodgy), savage liberalism has proved its limits. Time to be creative and think of a third way. As a matter of fact, banks were quite OK when there was a healthy degree of competition between them. The trouble started when instead of competing, banks merged and created monsters. Maybe limiting the amounts they can deal with would be a start.

 

[Yetos]

Although I agree with most of what you said, I just wonder somewhat whether Keynes theory might be at least partially responsible for exactly the problems you describe. It accumulates problems under the carpet. Besides Keynes strategy seems impossible in practice. How can government save money during boom and spend during recession, if nobody knows when the boom or recession is the real one? Its almost like predicting prices in the stock market. Maybe Keynes leads us even more into dependency of banks. However I'm not claiming to know a better solution. If someone can enlighten me, go for it.

yes you are correct to that
But lets see Caynes model when was on practise,
mainly 45-80's
means that progress of Europe was done under caynes model,
when Caynes model start to treble or wraped 1rst at times of Seich Yamani at 1978-1983 and the oil crisis,
after that slowly Caynes is abandoned,

personally I believe that a return to more controled forms of market and moving Capitals is at least a temporary solution,
the other is middle class to avoid Banks and create smaller mechanisms,

State-controlled banks are not the solution (states are up to their nose in debts, proof management is dodgy), savage liberalism has proved its limits. Time to be creative and think of a third way. As a matter of fact, banks were quite OK when there was a healthy degree of competition between them. The trouble started when instead of competing, banks merged and created monsters. Maybe limiting the amounts they can deal with would be a start.

the big problem is this,

you are a poor but clever student and you could not afford your studies,
Bankers find you support you and let you work for them,
then they give you money, and they send you to politics
then they promote to be a high party member and when the times come they give you more money to help them be the one,

how Bank works,
I have a small but succed corporation that makes a product for example in a village,
Bank realize that I earn enough, Bank is greed, so what she does,
she gives loans to locals and foreigns, she spends money and create 3-4 simmilar corporations,
suddenly all are boomed cause market laws can not afford such productivity,
then what?
2 solutions
1 is I also take a loan from the bank
2 is that from 3-4 most declare boom survives 1 but the damage is done,

the price of my product has droped,
the product lost its name,
the production is under control of Bank
so the production cost is very cheap now and soon foreign workers (slave merchantry) work there,
the market buys the thing that is advertised, etc

so the result is that in 5 years the product become .....
All pass to bank
for 20-30 tears Bank will earn some wondering if they are enough to cover the money that spend

But the damage is done,
I become either a loan payer for my life,
either i had to declare bankrupt and be destroyed from middle,
in order to cheap costs foreigns migrate to area,
the few traditional workers lost their jobs or face another conditions of working,

consider instead of me to be a state,

for example the Olympic games,
in order to a minister be successfull or what ever the idea is to make Olympic games,

so what we do, we gather the state scientists and ask them how much it will cost, then we ask them how much we earn,

next is after the hidden among a state worker or a minister and a Banker,

for example if the ballance is possitive ok, I am sure that will earn, so push it and sometimes borrow with high interests
if the balance is negative then?
then i facultate numbers to bring to 0 and I take loans from the banks,

in both cases citizens and state loses but Bankers are earning,

that is what happened at Athens at least

comparing this with above that Bankers spend money in parties, finally the people will pay the damage with extra taxation etc

 

[Yetos]

for those who care about common goods,

and do not want to be a bankers property

http://www.europeancommongoods.org/

 

[Yetos]

The silence of the lamps

or lets put spices on our meat!!!

 

[Yetos]

well due to respect to the readers I will not give characteristics to the one who talks,

simply why is furious? and insulting?
this man spend 70 basic Greeks salaries in a month,
this man has 73 estates (flats houses storage) and according harash pays only 40 of them!!!
(like big hotel pay a max number if the rooms are many)
that man swim in public pool with out pay ticket,

that man is public target by indignants cause he tried to put responsibility of Depth to low class Greeks, and said together we 'eat' the loans money, while not a penny reach low class Greeks who may work 2 jobs,

and now the son of a Dictator is teaching about Democracy? naming αγανακτησμενοι as whatever,
why? cause Greeks fight them cash, the big problem of Greek market is cash,
it is estimated that only in september october about 16 billion cash were drawn by Banks,
august 2011 was 60 billion,
about 300 000 000 000 E deposits in Greek and other european Banks are drawn,
so that '....' guy can not make politic any more, he is of the one who where about to sold Greece,

when swiss Banks opens the accounts a sum of 600 000 000 000 greek E is about to be showed to whom belong, soon day by day Greek deposits are about the %0% that were in 2009 meaning problem of cash to both Europe and Greece, a max total of Greeks banks was about 800 000 000 000 E to 1 trillion,
but Greeks drow their money so a possible forced act to pass Banks under state control will give nothing since the only one who lose will be the 15% of the richest Greeks,
meaning that guy is pissed due to that,
the case of Lehman brothers will not pass in Greece, cause the one who produce it will win nothing,

for those who do not understand,

THE BEST WAY TO HIT THE 'MARKET' IS TO TAKE YOUR MONEY FROM THE BANKS

to those who do not Understand
BY CALLING INDIGNANTS as he does the only you manage is that we exist, and you make us stronger

it is unbelievable and create Hydrocephalus society to have 5-15% of state population to recycle the money production and produce bubble money, while their real production is 0

Stop the madness. modern society must not become as the Babel tower or the C American cultures

when put Banks to elite we put the 0% producers as top of society with a possible bend to Hydrocephalus societies

 

[Yetos]