Genetic study The origin and legacy of the Etruscans through a 2000-year archeogenomic time transec

My results for Salento's set is below. One quibble is that ETR10 has no radiocarbon date whatsoever, or context, so we don't know that period.

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Angela[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C8FF00, align: right"]5.88072274[/TD]
[TD]I3313_Balkans_BronzeAge[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D7FF00, align: right"]6.32650773[/TD]
[TD]I8475_NE_Iberia_RomP_atypical[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D7FF00, align: right"]6.32865705[/TD]
[TD]I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DBFF00, align: right"]6.44030279[/TD]
[TD]R1285_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DCFF00, align: right"]6.46676117[/TD]
[TD]Szolad43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DEFF00, align: right"]6.53661992[/TD]
[TD]R1287_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E1FF00, align: right"]6.62573015[/TD]
[TD]C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany):ETR010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #EDFF00, align: right"]6.95926002[/TD]
[TD]C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_1018-1151CE:TAQ022[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #EFFF00, align: right"]7.03668956[/TD]
[TD]I3499_NWBalkans_PannonianPlain_Vucedol_EN[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0FF00, align: right"]7.04472143[/TD]
[TD]I1979_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Northern_Italy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F1FF00, align: right"]7.09619616[/TD]
[TD]I2176_Balkans_BronzeAge[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3FF00, align: right"]7.14881808[/TD]
[TD]R111_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FDFF00, align: right"]7.44927513[/TD]
[TD]I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FEFF00, align: right"]7.46848043[/TD]
[TD]C.Italy_Early.Medieval:PoggioPelliccia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_772-960CE:POP001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFF200, align: right"]7.88178279[/TD]
[TD]Collegno36[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFEE00, align: right"]7.98552440[/TD]
[TD]C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_750-406BCE:VET001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFED00, align: right"]8.01499844[/TD]
[TD]C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_:TAQ006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE500, align: right"]8.25132717[/TD]
[TD]scy197_Scythian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE200, align: right"]8.36475343[/TD]
[TD]Szolad28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDA00, align: right"]8.58821285[/TD]
[TD]C.Italy_Imperial:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89-236CE:TAQ020[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD400, align: right"]8.77719773[/TD]
[TD]Bul10_Balkans_BronzeAge[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD300, align: right"]8.79924429[/TD]
[TD]C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE:VEU001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFCF00, align: right"]8.92554760[/TD]
[TD]R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFCE00, align: right"]8.94997207[/TD]
[TD]Bul6_Balkans_BronzeAge[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFC700, align: right"]9.13925599[/TD]
[TD]scy192_Scythian[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

13313 Balkans Bronze Age: As a half Emilian, half Eastern Ligurian/Tuscan, seems about right.
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]I3313_Balkans_BronzeAge[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #79FF00, align: right"]3.56289208[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lombardy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A3FF00, align: right"]4.79126288[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Emilia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A8FF00, align: right"]4.93867391[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Liguria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #AFFF00, align: right"]5.14644538[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Veneto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FF00, align: right"]5.39316234[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Piedmont[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #CFFF00, align: right"]6.07751594[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Tuscany[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DEFF00, align: right"]6.54086099[/TD]
[TD]Swiss_Italian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFE00, align: right"]7.53473291[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Trentino[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE900, align: right"]8.15207949[/TD]
[TD]French_Corsica[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDF00, align: right"]8.45180454[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Friuli_VG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDA00, align: right"]8.57974941[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Romagna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB100, align: right"]9.78649069[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Aosta_Valley[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9100, align: right"]10.72772576[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Baleares[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6F00, align: right"]11.74540438[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6500, align: right"]12.04132883[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lazio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5800, align: right"]12.42080915[/TD]
[TD]Albanian_Kosovo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5700, align: right"]12.44335164[/TD]
[TD]Macedonian_Vardar[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4E00, align: right"]12.70592382[/TD]
[TD]Portuguese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4400, align: right"]13.00949653[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Castilla-Leon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4300, align: right"]13.03460011[/TD]
[TD]Macedonian_South[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3A00, align: right"]13.29582641[/TD]
[TD]Macedonian_East[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3900, align: right"]13.31957957[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Valencia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3900, align: right"]13.32806813[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Canarias[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF2B00, align: right"]13.74268533[/TD]
[TD]Macedonian_Polog[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF2B00, align: right"]13.74453346[/TD]
[TD]Albanian[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

ETR010 Undated (I'm at 6.6) so seems pretty good.
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]ETR010:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #ABFF00, align: right"]5.02440046[/TD]
[TD]French_Corsica[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B3FF00, align: right"]5.26141084[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BCFF00, align: right"]5.52515158[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Romagna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E0FF00, align: right"]6.59193447[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Tuscany[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E9FF00, align: right"]6.84526113[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lazio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE900, align: right"]8.15754865[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Emilia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD000, align: right"]8.87920605[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Liguria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB500, align: right"]9.69074301[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Abruzzo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8800, align: right"]10.99793617[/TD]
[TD]Albanian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8400, align: right"]11.10661515[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Campania[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8100, align: right"]11.19838381[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lombardy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6E00, align: right"]11.75719780[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Central[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6B00, align: right"]11.84891134[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Athens[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5B00, align: right"]12.31078795[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Thrace[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5A00, align: right"]12.36642228[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Apulia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5700, align: right"]12.45418002[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Thessaly[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5600, align: right"]12.45619525[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Piedmont[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5500, align: right"]12.49764378[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Sicily[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5000, align: right"]12.64545373[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Veneto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4B00, align: right"]12.79305671[/TD]
[TD]Albanian_Kosovo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4900, align: right"]12.86448600[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Peloponnese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3400, align: right"]13.48138717[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Thessaloniki[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF2A00, align: right"]13.77371047[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Foca[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1F00, align: right"]14.07704514[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Lemnos[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1500, align: right"]14.38395286[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Calabria[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Taq 22-Early Medieval Toscana (I'm at 6.9) Again, about where I should be.
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]TAQ022:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #85FF00, align: right"]3.91677163[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Romagna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9DFF00, align: right"]4.62531339[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #ACFF00, align: right"]5.07221845[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lazio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B5FF00, align: right"]5.31941726[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Tuscany[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DEFF00, align: right"]6.52240753[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Emilia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E9FF00, align: right"]6.86460487[/TD]
[TD]French_Corsica[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F8FF00, align: right"]7.29891088[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Liguria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDD00, align: right"]8.50792572[/TD]
[TD]Albanian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFBF00, align: right"]9.38618133[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Thessaly[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFBB00, align: right"]9.51462558[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Thrace[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB600, align: right"]9.63508173[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lombardy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB600, align: right"]9.63739073[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Abruzzo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB600, align: right"]9.64062757[/TD]
[TD]Albanian_Kosovo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB100, align: right"]9.79988265[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Veneto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFA700, align: right"]10.10194041[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Piedmont[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9F00, align: right"]10.31402443[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Central[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9700, align: right"]10.57133861[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Peloponnese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9300, align: right"]10.66870189[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Thessaloniki[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9200, align: right"]10.69634050[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Athens[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8800, align: right"]10.98788424[/TD]
[TD]Macedonian_South[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8500, align: right"]11.09392627[/TD]
[TD]Macedonian_Vardar[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7200, align: right"]11.64879393[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Apulia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6A00, align: right"]11.87412313[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Friuli_VG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6A00, align: right"]11.88772476[/TD]
[TD]Bulgarian_Thrace[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6100, align: right"]12.13292215[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Macedonia[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Vet001 Etruscan 1st millennium: 750-406 B.C.E. I get a 7.9. Lombards are pretty darn close, though, and Ligurians aren't terrible. Spaniards are much further away. So, there's variation in them, and PCAs are not all one should look at...
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]VET001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A4FF00, align: right"]4.82312140[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lombardy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D3FF00, align: right"]6.19209678[/TD]
[TD]Swiss_Italian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D6FF00, align: right"]6.30357042[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Liguria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E6FF00, align: right"]6.75784729[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Piedmont[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FBFF00, align: right"]7.39512677[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Emilia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFA00, align: right"]7.63998691[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Veneto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFEC00, align: right"]8.06459546[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Trentino[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD900, align: right"]8.62826170[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Tuscany[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD400, align: right"]8.75213117[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Baleares[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFCE00, align: right"]8.93741014[/TD]
[TD]French_Corsica[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFC300, align: right"]9.27474528[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Aosta_Valley[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFAA00, align: right"]10.00591825[/TD]
[TD]Portuguese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFA700, align: right"]10.09055499[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Friuli_VG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFA600, align: right"]10.10696295[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Castilla-Leon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9B00, align: right"]10.44944496[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Valencia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8C00, align: right"]10.87392753[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Canarias[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8300, align: right"]11.15032735[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Catalonia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7F00, align: right"]11.25371050[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Romagna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6300, align: right"]12.08900740[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Andalusia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6000, align: right"]12.17343419[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Galicia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5100, align: right"]12.61313601[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Aragon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4300, align: right"]13.01853294[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Cantabria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1F00, align: right"]14.09290602[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Asturias[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1600, align: right"]14.35757584[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0700, align: right"]14.80557665[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lazio[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
I just realized that J2b2-L283 among Etruscans was only 1 sample, the one it got initially revealed probably. So, they were heavily R1b with G2a (I assume a scenario were the G2a imposed their language, coming from the Alps after splitting with Rhaetians).

The others are from Early Middle Age Potenza, Basilicata among the E-L618 very likely E-V13 sample.
 
Angela said:
My results for Salento's set is below. One quibble is that ETR10 has no radiocarbon date whatsoever, or context, so we don't know that period.

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Angela[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C8FF00, align: right"]5.88072274[/TD]
[TD]I3313_Balkans_BronzeAge[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D7FF00, align: right"]6.32650773[/TD]
[TD]I8475_NE_Iberia_RomP_atypical[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D7FF00, align: right"]6.32865705[/TD]
[TD]I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DBFF00, align: right"]6.44030279[/TD]
[TD]R1285_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DCFF00, align: right"]6.46676117[/TD]
[TD]Szolad43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DEFF00, align: right"]6.53661992[/TD]
[TD]R1287_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E1FF00, align: right"]6.62573015[/TD]
[TD]C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany):ETR010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #EDFF00, align: right"]6.95926002[/TD]
[TD]C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_1018-1151CE:TAQ022[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #EFFF00, align: right"]7.03668956[/TD]
[TD]I3499_NWBalkans_PannonianPlain_Vucedol_EN[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0FF00, align: right"]7.04472143[/TD]
[TD]I1979_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Northern_Italy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F1FF00, align: right"]7.09619616[/TD]
[TD]I2176_Balkans_BronzeAge[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3FF00, align: right"]7.14881808[/TD]
[TD]R111_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FDFF00, align: right"]7.44927513[/TD]
[TD]I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FEFF00, align: right"]7.46848043[/TD]
[TD]C.Italy_Early.Medieval:PoggioPelliccia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_772-960CE:POP001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFF200, align: right"]7.88178279[/TD]
[TD]Collegno36[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFEE00, align: right"]7.98552440[/TD]
[TD]C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_750-406BCE:VET001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFED00, align: right"]8.01499844[/TD]
[TD]C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_:TAQ006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE500, align: right"]8.25132717[/TD]
[TD]scy197_Scythian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE200, align: right"]8.36475343[/TD]
[TD]Szolad28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDA00, align: right"]8.58821285[/TD]
[TD]C.Italy_Imperial:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89-236CE:TAQ020[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD400, align: right"]8.77719773[/TD]
[TD]Bul10_Balkans_BronzeAge[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD300, align: right"]8.79924429[/TD]
[TD]C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE:VEU001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFCF00, align: right"]8.92554760[/TD]
[TD]R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFCE00, align: right"]8.94997207[/TD]
[TD]Bul6_Balkans_BronzeAge[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFC700, align: right"]9.13925599[/TD]
[TD]scy192_Scythian[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

13313 Balkans Bronze Age: As a half Emilian, half Eastern Ligurian/Tuscan, seems about right.
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]I3313_Balkans_BronzeAge[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #79FF00, align: right"]3.56289208[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lombardy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A3FF00, align: right"]4.79126288[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Emilia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A8FF00, align: right"]4.93867391[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Liguria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #AFFF00, align: right"]5.14644538[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Veneto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FF00, align: right"]5.39316234[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Piedmont[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #CFFF00, align: right"]6.07751594[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Tuscany[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DEFF00, align: right"]6.54086099[/TD]
[TD]Swiss_Italian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFE00, align: right"]7.53473291[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Trentino[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE900, align: right"]8.15207949[/TD]
[TD]French_Corsica[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDF00, align: right"]8.45180454[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Friuli_VG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDA00, align: right"]8.57974941[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Romagna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB100, align: right"]9.78649069[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Aosta_Valley[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9100, align: right"]10.72772576[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Baleares[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6F00, align: right"]11.74540438[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6500, align: right"]12.04132883[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lazio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5800, align: right"]12.42080915[/TD]
[TD]Albanian_Kosovo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5700, align: right"]12.44335164[/TD]
[TD]Macedonian_Vardar[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4E00, align: right"]12.70592382[/TD]
[TD]Portuguese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4400, align: right"]13.00949653[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Castilla-Leon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4300, align: right"]13.03460011[/TD]
[TD]Macedonian_South[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3A00, align: right"]13.29582641[/TD]
[TD]Macedonian_East[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3900, align: right"]13.31957957[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Valencia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3900, align: right"]13.32806813[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Canarias[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF2B00, align: right"]13.74268533[/TD]
[TD]Macedonian_Polog[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF2B00, align: right"]13.74453346[/TD]
[TD]Albanian[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

ETR010 Undated (I'm at 6.6) so seems pretty good.
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]ETR010:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #ABFF00, align: right"]5.02440046[/TD]
[TD]French_Corsica[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B3FF00, align: right"]5.26141084[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BCFF00, align: right"]5.52515158[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Romagna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E0FF00, align: right"]6.59193447[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Tuscany[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E9FF00, align: right"]6.84526113[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lazio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE900, align: right"]8.15754865[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Emilia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD000, align: right"]8.87920605[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Liguria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB500, align: right"]9.69074301[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Abruzzo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8800, align: right"]10.99793617[/TD]
[TD]Albanian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8400, align: right"]11.10661515[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Campania[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8100, align: right"]11.19838381[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lombardy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6E00, align: right"]11.75719780[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Central[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6B00, align: right"]11.84891134[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Athens[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5B00, align: right"]12.31078795[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Thrace[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5A00, align: right"]12.36642228[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Apulia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5700, align: right"]12.45418002[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Thessaly[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5600, align: right"]12.45619525[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Piedmont[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5500, align: right"]12.49764378[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Sicily[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5000, align: right"]12.64545373[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Veneto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4B00, align: right"]12.79305671[/TD]
[TD]Albanian_Kosovo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4900, align: right"]12.86448600[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Peloponnese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3400, align: right"]13.48138717[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Thessaloniki[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF2A00, align: right"]13.77371047[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Foca[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1F00, align: right"]14.07704514[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Lemnos[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1500, align: right"]14.38395286[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Calabria[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Taq 22-Early Medieval Toscana (I'm at 6.9) Again, about where I should be.
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]TAQ022:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #85FF00, align: right"]3.91677163[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Romagna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9DFF00, align: right"]4.62531339[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #ACFF00, align: right"]5.07221845[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lazio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B5FF00, align: right"]5.31941726[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Tuscany[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DEFF00, align: right"]6.52240753[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Emilia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E9FF00, align: right"]6.86460487[/TD]
[TD]French_Corsica[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F8FF00, align: right"]7.29891088[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Liguria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDD00, align: right"]8.50792572[/TD]
[TD]Albanian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFBF00, align: right"]9.38618133[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Thessaly[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFBB00, align: right"]9.51462558[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Thrace[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB600, align: right"]9.63508173[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lombardy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB600, align: right"]9.63739073[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Abruzzo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB600, align: right"]9.64062757[/TD]
[TD]Albanian_Kosovo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB100, align: right"]9.79988265[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Veneto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFA700, align: right"]10.10194041[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Piedmont[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9F00, align: right"]10.31402443[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Central[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9700, align: right"]10.57133861[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Peloponnese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9300, align: right"]10.66870189[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Thessaloniki[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9200, align: right"]10.69634050[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Athens[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8800, align: right"]10.98788424[/TD]
[TD]Macedonian_South[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8500, align: right"]11.09392627[/TD]
[TD]Macedonian_Vardar[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7200, align: right"]11.64879393[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Apulia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6A00, align: right"]11.87412313[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Friuli_VG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6A00, align: right"]11.88772476[/TD]
[TD]Bulgarian_Thrace[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6100, align: right"]12.13292215[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Macedonia[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Vet001 Etruscan 1st millennium: 750-406 B.C.E. I get a 7.9. Lombards are pretty darn close, though, and Ligurians aren't terrible. Spaniards are much further away. So, there's variation in them, and PCAs are not all one should look at...
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]VET001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A4FF00, align: right"]4.82312140[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lombardy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D3FF00, align: right"]6.19209678[/TD]
[TD]Swiss_Italian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D6FF00, align: right"]6.30357042[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Liguria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E6FF00, align: right"]6.75784729[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Piedmont[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FBFF00, align: right"]7.39512677[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Emilia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFA00, align: right"]7.63998691[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Veneto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFEC00, align: right"]8.06459546[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Trentino[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD900, align: right"]8.62826170[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Tuscany[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD400, align: right"]8.75213117[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Baleares[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFCE00, align: right"]8.93741014[/TD]
[TD]French_Corsica[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFC300, align: right"]9.27474528[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Aosta_Valley[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFAA00, align: right"]10.00591825[/TD]
[TD]Portuguese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFA700, align: right"]10.09055499[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Friuli_VG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFA600, align: right"]10.10696295[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Castilla-Leon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9B00, align: right"]10.44944496[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Valencia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8C00, align: right"]10.87392753[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Canarias[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8300, align: right"]11.15032735[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Catalonia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7F00, align: right"]11.25371050[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Romagna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6300, align: right"]12.08900740[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Andalusia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6000, align: right"]12.17343419[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Galicia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5100, align: right"]12.61313601[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Aragon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4300, align: right"]13.01853294[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Cantabria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1F00, align: right"]14.09290602[/TD]
[TD]Spanish_Asturias[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1600, align: right"]14.35757584[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0700, align: right"]14.80557665[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Lazio[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...
This will be good news for Italians. I've observed how some folks, not without glee, pointed out, that the Etruscans are closest to Iberians, thus fall firmly in the Iberian cluster.
 
real expert said:
This will be good news for Italians. I've observed how some folks, not without glee, pointed out, that the Etruscans are closest to Iberians, thus fall firmly in the Iberian cluster.
Click to expand...
They do overlap, but during the IA Iberians we're similar to Basque and pulled towards the position of Etruscans because of outside sources during the Roman Empire, and medieval period. Italians Are generally bracked between what I speculate will be mainly, C.Italian_IA sources-like, and Aegean_IA-like sources. No doubt some augmentation occurred, but certainly not population replacement from the eastern Mediterranean.
 
Hawk said:
I just realized that J2b2-L283 among Etruscans was only 1 sample, the one it got initially revealed probably. So, they were heavily R1b with G2a (I assume a scenario were the G2a imposed their language, coming from the Alps after splitting with Rhaetians)..
Click to expand...

Or vice versa, the G2a were already in place, and are the R1b to take the language from the latter, after that for century in the prehistory of Etruria it is possible that they have coexisted both the pre-Indo-European language and the Indo-European one.

I agree with you that this point the language may indeed have a relationship with the G2a.


Jovialis said:
They do overlap, but during the IA Iberians we're similar to Basque and pulled towards the position of Etruscans because of outside sources during the Roman Empire, and medieval period. Italians Are generally bracked between what I speculate will be mainly, C.Italian_IA sources-like, and Aegean_IA-like sources. No doubt some augmentation occurred, but certainly not population replacement from the eastern Mediterranean.
Click to expand...

Good point, Jovialis.
 
real expert said:
This will be good news for Italians. I've observed how some folks, not without glee, pointed out, that the Etruscans are closest to Iberians, thus fall firmly in the Iberian cluster.
Click to expand...

This should not be a contest. Unfortunately, that's what some Spanish admixed people try to make it, and I say this with a good degree of sadness, because I spent a wonderful summer studying in Barcelona during university days, and have been back to Spain a number of times since, and had a wonderful time; the people, the food, everything, was just great. I was treated like a long lost cousin, and that's how I felt.

Most of the "Spaniards" (I put that in quotes because in actuality they are very often New World "Spanish", and thus admixed with Amerindian, or, like Sikelliot, part ) on the pop gen web sites and polluting even places like "quora" are "Nordicists" who live to prove how they are "Celts", and thus more "worthy" I guess, than other Southern Europeans. It's all very sad. In my experience the Greeks and the Italians don't treat each other that way in the pop gen world, and that should be the model. We're all Southern Europeans, after all.

As to the PCA, it all depends on the populations in the background. I don't remember the background populations from Antonio et al which showed the Etruscan samples they had hovered in a sort of no man's land between Spaniards and North Italians. In the case of this study they used all West Eurasian populations in the body of the paper and just the Italian populations in the Supplement. (I provided a picture of it upthread.) They clearly show very different things.

It's not a contest, as I said, but, after all, similarity of genetic composition does not mean descent. It is the people in Tuscany and Emilia Romagna who are "descended" from them, to whatever degree. It's the same with my continuing similarity to Balkans Bronze Age. I doubt that I "descend" specifically from them. I just descend from people who were "similar" to them, no doubt.

It would be interesting from a genetics point of view to see how all the first millennium B.C.E. Etruscan samples, both from this study and Antonio et al, plot in a PCA with a West Eurasian background, a European background, an Italian background, and a Spanish background. Then we might get a more accurate picture.

What has to be kept in mind always, however, is that while PCAs are deceptively easy to understand, they in actuality show only two levels of variation.

As to the admixture results, I wasn't trying to make a point about Spain or the Spanish. I just ran my own matches. I didn't run all the Etruscan matches, so I don't know what they would show. That would be an interesting experiment.
 
Last edited:
Jovialis said:
They do overlap, but during the IA Iberians we're similar to Basque and pulled towards the position of Etruscans because of outside sources during the Roman Empire, and medieval period. Italians Are generally bracked between what I speculate will be mainly, C.Italian_IA sources-like, and Aegean_IA-like sources. No doubt some augmentation occurred, but certainly not population replacement from the eastern Mediterranean.
Click to expand...

68hqRhy.png


Olalde et al. 2021 actually gives us some insight into this, it shows the PCA with Italy Rome Republic (i.e. Latins & Etruscans) as well as Aegean IA & BA. Modern Southern Italians, Sicilians, and Tuscans are generally on that line, but a bit to the east. How much of this could also be driven by genetic drift, related to people living in small villages for centuries, in remote areas? Also, interactions with the Balkans IA-type people, who already land over modern Italians, could have been a factor as well.
 
Jovialis said:
68hqRhy.png


Olalde et al. 2021 actually gives us some insight into this, it shows the PCA with Italy Rome Republic (i.e. Latins & Etruscans) as well as Aegean IA & BA. Modern Southern Italians, Sicilians, and Tuscans are generally on that line, but a bit to the east. How much of this could also be driven by genetic drift, related to people living in small villages for centuries, in remote areas? Also, interactions with the Balkans IA-type people, who already land over modern Italians, could have been a factor as well.
Click to expand...

Compare the graphic above, to the one posted by Pax:

mQwkAlS.jpg
 
Jovialis said:
68hqRhy.png


Olalde et al. 2021 actually gives us some insight into this, it shows the PCA with Italy Rome Republic (i.e. Latins & Etruscans) as well as Aegean IA & BA. Modern Southern Italians, Sicilians, and Tuscans are generally on that line, but a bit to the east. How much of this could also be driven by genetic drift, related to people living in small villages for centuries, in remote areas? Also, interactions with the Balkans IA-type people, who already land over modern Italians, could have been a factor as well.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, as you know, I haven't been keeping up with all your posts. We don't have the coordinates for Balkans Iron Age Cluster, correct?
 
Angela said:
Unfortunately, as you know, I haven't been keeping up with all your posts. We don't have the coordinates for Balkans Iron Age Cluster, correct?
Click to expand...

Not at the moment, but I am keeping my eye open for when they come about. Same for the Daunian samples, I am interested to see how they would project on the PCA.
 
mQwkAlS.jpg

F2.large.jpg



It is a mere guess, but to me it looks like the red points look like the BA Sicilian samples, judging from their relative position to what looks like the Mycenean cluster. Otherwise it could be Daunians?
 
Leopoldo Leone said:
mQwkAlS.jpg

F2.large.jpg

It is a mere guess, but to me it looks like the red points look like the BA Sicilian samples, judging from their relative position to what looks like the Mycenean cluster. Otherwise it could be Daunians?
Click to expand...
However, Daunians are not Italic, and it is called Italic C. Maybe southern Italics?
 
Jovialis said:
However, Daunians are not Italic, and it is called Italic C. Maybe southern Italics?
Click to expand...


Central Italian IA groups are likely Etruscans and Latins from Lazio and Tuscany, all the others are from Campania.



zQlOIsQ.png





In this PCA there are likely only samples from Campania

mQwkAlS.jpeg
 
I am referring not to the dark red circles in the Campania cluster, but to the bright red circles that are outside it, beneath both Myceneans and Italics (in the second PCA the position of Italics can be approximated by Baleares BA), and in between them. They are not IA C.
 
Leopoldo Leone said:
I am referring not to the dark red circles in the Campania cluster, but to the bright red circles that are outside it, beneath both Myceneans and Italics (in the second PCA the position of Italics can be approximated by Baleares BA), and in between them. They are not IA C.
Click to expand...

Right, I see it now.
 
kingjohn said:

that is better with the mtdna also and name of the sites

Sample IDSite (Province, Region)2-sigma calibration (IntCal13)ClustermtDNA HaplogroupY-chr HaplogroupY-chr haplogroup SNP
CAM001Campiglia dei Foci (Siena, Tuscany)780-540 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan H1at1 R1b1a1b1a1a2P312
CAM002Campiglia dei Foci (Siena, Tuscany)770-520 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu H18 G2a2b2a1L140/S316
CAM003Campiglia dei Foci (Siena, Tuscany)770-540 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan J2a1a1 G2a2b2a1a1bL497/S317
CSN001Casenovole (Grosseto, Tuscany)-C.Italy_Etruscan_undated H1 --
CSN002Casenovole (Grosseto, Tuscany)427-265 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu_related H45 --
CSN003Casenovole (Grosseto, Tuscany)380-204 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan H1at1 R1b1a1b1a1a2d1aZ2247
CSN004Casenovole (Grosseto, Tuscany)-C.Italy_Etruscan_undated X2b J2b2a1L283
CSN005Casenovole (Grosseto, Tuscany)-C.Italy_Etruscan_undated H2a1 R1b1a1b1a1a2P312
CSN006Casenovole (Grosseto, Tuscany)533-392 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan J1c2 R1b1a1b1a1a2b1L2/S139
CSN007Casenovole (Grosseto, Tuscany)-C.Italy_Etruscan_undated H1b --
CSN008Casenovole (Grosseto, Tuscany)-C.Italy_Etruscan_undated H7c1 --
CSN009Casenovole (Grosseto, Tuscany)427-265 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan H45 R1b1a1b1a1a2P312
CSN010Casenovole (Grosseto, Tuscany)380-204 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan_related HV0 R1b1a1b1a1a2d1aZ2247
CSN012Casenovole (Grosseto, Tuscany)-- U4a1a1 n/an/a
CSN013Casenovole (Grosseto, Tuscany)-C.Italy_Etruscan_undated H4a1a--
ETR001Chiusi (Siena, Tuscany)139-326 CEC.Italy_Imperial T1a8a--
ETR003Chiusi (Siena, Tuscany)997-1149 CEC.Italy_Early.Medieval HV0 R1b1a1b1aL51
ETR004Chiusi (Siena, Tuscany)-- HV n /an/a
ETR005Chiusi (Siena, Tuscany)805-774 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan V15 --
ETR006Chiusi (Siena, Tuscany)772-888 CEC.Italy_Early.Medieval H1e --
ETR007Chiusi (Siena, Tuscany)775-945 CEC.Italy_Early.Medieval J1c15 --
ETR010Chiusi (Siena, Tuscany)-C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated H5 --
ETR012Chiusi (Siena, Tuscany)-C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated HV2a n /an/a
ETR013Chiusi (Siena, Tuscany)899-1016 CEC.Italy_Early.Medieval J1c8a --
ETR014Chiusi (Siena, Tuscany)977-1022 CE C.Italy_Early.Medieval_ETR014 H26b J1a2a1a2P58/Page8/PF4698
ETR015Chiusi (Siena, Tuscany)40-190 CE- H7f n/an/a
ETR016Chiusi (Siena, Tuscany)407-534 CEC.Italy_Imperial R2b I1-
MAG001Magliano in Toscana (Grosseto, Tuscany)790-550 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan T2b R1b1a1b1a1aL151
MAS001Marsiliana d'Albegna (Grosseto, Tuscany)350-100 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan_MAS001 T2h2 G2a2b2a1a1c1a1CTS5990/Z1903
MAS002Marsiliana d'Albegna (Grosseto, Tuscany)240-380 CEC.Italy_Imperial H74 R1b1a1b1bZ2103
MAS003Marsiliana d'Albegna (Grosseto, Tuscany)400-530 CEC.Italy_Imperial K1b2a1 R1b1a1bM269/PF6517
MAS004Marsiliana d'Albegna (Grosseto, Tuscany)804-557 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan R1b1 R1b1a1b1a1P310
POP001Poggio Pelliccia (Grosseto, Tuscany)772-960 CEC.Italy_Early.Medieval H4a1a R1b1a1b1a1a2b1L2
PRZ001Poggio Renzo (Siena, Tuscany)794-543 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan U5b3b --
PRZ002Poggio Renzo (Siena, Tuscany)772-436 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan H1 R1b1a1b1a1a2b1L2
TAQ001Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)356-96 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan_related T2e --
TAQ002Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)103 BCE-54 CEC.Italy_Etruscan H R1b1a1b1a1a2P312
TAQ003Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)729-942 CEC.Italy_Early.Medieval X2n --
TAQ004Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)-C.Italy_Etruscan_undated H R1b1a1b1a1a2bU152
TAQ005Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)346-51 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan_related T2d2 R1b1a1b1a1a2b1L2
TAQ006Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)-C.Italy_Etruscan_undated HV22 G2a2b2a1a1b1CTS9737/Z1815
TAQ007Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)391-207 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan.Afr H5 --
TAQ008Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)-C.Italy_Etruscan_undated HV0 --
TAQ009Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)899-1021 CEC.Italy_Early.Medieval T1b2 I1a2a1a1a1aS1954/YSC0000261
TAQ010Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)-C.Italy_Etruscan_undated H13a1a1d R1b1a1b1a1a2P312
TAQ011Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)895-1016 CEC.Italy_Early.Medieval L2a1c3a --
TAQ012Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)-C.Italy_Etruscan_undated H1 --
TAQ013Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)-C.Italy_Etruscan_undated U5a1a2a R1b1a1b1a1a1M405/U106/S21
TAQ015Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)346-51 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan H5a7- -
TAQ016Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)-C.Italy_Etruscan_undated H1bz --
TAQ017Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)356-96 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan_related T2e R1b1a1b1aL51
TAQ018Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)346-51 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan_related W6a R1b1a1b1a1a2b1L2
TAQ019Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)358-98 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan J1c3 --
TAQ020Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)89-236 CEC.Italy_Imperial H44a J2a1a1a2Z2229
TAQ021Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)262-424 CEC.Italy_Imperial X1 J2a1a1a2b1bM319
TAQ022Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)1018-1151 CEC.Italy_Early.Medieval H --
TAQ023Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)396-216 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan.Afr U5b2a3 G2a2b2a1a1c1a1CTS5990/Z1903
TAQ024Tarquinia (Viterbo, Lazio)356-96 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan T2e R1b1a1b1a2PF7589/Z2118
UDC_PChiostraccio (Siena, Tuscany)174-53 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan_UDC_P HV0 R1b1a1b1a1a2P312
VEN001Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)650-800 CES.Italy_Venosa N3a J2a1a1a2b2a2b3aL210
VEN002Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)650-800 CES.Italy_Venosa_VEN002 U5a1c --
VEN005Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)650-763 CES.Italy_Venosa HV0e --
VEN006Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)650-763 CES.Italy_Venosa T1a J2b2a1L283
VEN008Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)660-766 CES.Italy_Venosa H6c E1b1b1a1b1L618
VEN009Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)660-766 CES.Italy_Venosa_related L2b1a --
VEN010Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)670-775 CES.Italy_Venosa_related W6 J2bM12
VEN012Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)670-775 CES.Italy_Venosa J1c3 G2a2b2a1L140/S316
VEN013Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)670-775 CES.Italy_Venosa H14a J2b2a1L283
VEN014Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)670-775 CES.Italy_Venosa H --
VEN015Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)670-775 CES.Italy_Venosa H1 --
VEN016Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)672-800 CES.Italy_Venosa I1b --
VEN017Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)672-800 CES.Italy_Venosa_related H35 n/an/a
VEN018Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)672-800 CES.Italy_Venosa H5a1g1a --
VEN021Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)672-800 CES.Italy_Venosa_related U5a2d1 --
VEN022Venosa (Potenza, Basilicata)672-800 CES.Italy_Venosa_related H7a1 G2a2b2aP303/Page108/PF3340/S135/Z765
VET001Vetulonia (Grosseto, Tuscany)750-406 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan H5'36 --
VET002Vetulonia (Grosseto, Tuscany)790-550 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan J1c3 G2a2b2b1a1aPF3378
VET003.4Vetulonia (Grosseto, Tuscany)800-590 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan J1c9 --
VET005Vetulonia (Grosseto, Tuscany)360-200 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu H79 --
VET006.9Vetulonia (Grosseto, Tuscany)359-199 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan.Afr_VET006.9 J1c3 --
VET007Vetulonia (Grosseto, Tuscany)806-599 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan T2b --
VET008Vetulonia (Grosseto, Tuscany)372-204 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan.Afr H3 --
VET010Vetulonia (Grosseto, Tuscany)788-545 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan H58 --
VET011Vetulonia (Grosseto, Tuscany)750-413 BCE- J1b1a1 n/an/a
VEU001Vetulonia (Grosseto, Tuscany)790-550 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan V R1b1a1b1a1a2b1L2
VOL001Volterra (Pisa, Tuscany)200-60 BCEC.Italy_Etruscan H13a1a1 R1b1a1b1a1a2b1L2
Click to expand...


Done. Thanks kingjohn.
 
real expert said:
This will be good news for Italians. I've observed how some folks, not without glee, pointed out, that the Etruscans are closest to Iberians, thus fall firmly in the Iberian cluster.
Click to expand...

I3313 is a female from Dalmatia Croatia

[h=3]I3313, Bronze Age, 1500-900 BCE[/h]
http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/09/135616
doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/135616

I3313
mtDNA: HV0e


# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian-North 3.09
2 Italian_North 5.35
3 Kosovar 6
4 Corsican 6.22
5 Provancal 7.13
6 Romania 7.99
7 Swiss 8.93
8 Portugese 9.11
9 Bulgarian 9.23
10 Montenegrin 10.04
11 Gagauz 10.09
12 Iberian 10.36
13 Macedonian 10.74
14 Spaniard 11.06
15 Greek_North 11.44
16 Greek_South 11.89
17 French 12.41
18 Greek_Center 12.61
19 Serbian 12.76
20 Italian-Center 13.38
 
Hawk said:
I just realized that J2b2-L283 among Etruscans was only 1 sample, the one it got initially revealed probably. So, they were heavily R1b with G2a (I assume a scenario were the G2a imposed their language, coming from the Alps after splitting with Rhaetians).

The others are from Early Middle Age Potenza, Basilicata among the E-L618 very likely E-V13 sample.
Click to expand...

language has zero information to do with genetics
 
Jovialis said:
Not at the moment, but I am keeping my eye open for when they come about. Same for the Daunian samples, I am interested to see how they would project on the PCA.
Click to expand...

There are too many Italians on this site trying to stop or not recognising that the northern balkans is associated with north and central italy from bronze and iron age times.

actually if we are to be honest with ourselves in regards to iron age Italy ...........then Central Italy should represent all Italy south of the Po river .......but not including Sicily

Sicliy would be the only southern italian
 
torzio said:
There are too many Italians on this site trying to stop or not recognising that the northern balkans is associated with north and central italy from bronze and iron age times.

actually if we are to be honest with ourselves in regards to iron age Italy ...........then Central Italy should represent all Italy south of the Po river .......but not including Sicily

Sicliy would be the only southern italian
Click to expand...


A conspiracy against you, Torzio.
 
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