Veneti / Venedi / Wends (OFFTOPIC Y-DNA Haplogroups R1b-U152/S28)

[torzio]

I want to clear up any misconception I was not suggesting the Veneti or Wends (Proto Slavs) were large haplogroup E carriers, I fully believe they were Indo Europeans, I just wondered if these tribes could have picked up some E-V13, to help explain the formation of SNP E-Y41980 or YFULL E-Y17356, when settling in the Italian region and possibly bringing north into the Baltic and Scandinavian regions. However as Riverman suggested it could have originated in Swiss/Austrian territory and traveled north as well, I will have to familiarize myself with the other neighboring tribes.

you mispelled Veleti

The name Veleti stems from the root vel- ('high, tall'). The Veleti were called by other names, probably given by their neighbours, such as Lutices, Ljutici, or Volki, Volčki. The latter means 'wolf', and the former probably 'fierce creature' based upon the comparison with the Russian form lyutyj zvěr.[3] In common with other Slavic groups between the Elbe and Oder Rivers, they were often described by Germanic sources as Wends.

 

[Riverman]

Very interesting Riverman I'm about to head out the door to see Dune , I had argued before in groups that I believe much of E-V13 were probably culturally more Celtic so it looks like you may be on to something to help explain my argument...I will read up this weekend!

It has to have been Celtic in some regions, because of the modern spread it has and the phylogeny of the subclades. The main hub for the Western spread was obviously Hallstatt and the Celtic or just Celticised people of the Alpine zone. At the moment my best guess is that it spread to the West with Alpine Celtic R-U152, probably at a ratio of 2:1 to 3:1, like what it reaches in the German and French speaking regions, where it seems to have been No 2 after R-U152 in some regions if subtracting later incoming lineages from Germanics (I1 and R-U106) which are now at the 2nd and third position usually.
Unfortunately the Swiss study didn't provide number for E-V13, but most of the E1b1b should belong to it, at least 2/3 of the frequency:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/41931-Swiss-y-haplogroups?p=633450&viewfull=1#post633450

Concerning
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y17356*/ or E-Y41980

It looks like it moved more directly North obviously. Its fairly old, no non-Northern subclades and samples. Even the split between the Norwegian and British branches is fairly old and dates back to the initial dispersal in the LBA-EIA transition! So either it moved up early on, with Urnfield already, which is possible, or later with Hallstatt, splitting in a Celtic and a Germanic branch possibly, which ended up in Jastorf. But while the split is old, the Norwegian branches are young, which means new finds could change that and bring them closer to the British, which is a likely scenario, like they could descend from "Gaelic Vikings" or British slavs, anything in that direction, too.
Even the whole group could still be shifted Southern, since the British clades are diverse, but shallow in age, because of the better testing level in Britain and America.

 

[MOESAN]

you mispelled Veleti

The name Veleti stems from the root vel- ('high, tall'). The Veleti were called by other names, probably given by their neighbours, such as Lutices, Ljutici, or Volki, Volčki. The latter means 'wolf', and the former probably 'fierce creature' based upon the comparison with the Russian form lyutyj zvěr.[3] In common with other Slavic groups between the Elbe and Oder Rivers, they were often described by Germanic sources as Wends.

I think you are confusing things here: Veneti were not Veleti, even in what is today Poland:
Wiki: not same places, not same times


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[TH="class: infobox-above adr, colspan: 2"]Confederacy of the Veleti
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[TD="class: infobox-full-data, colspan: 2"]Map of the important tribes and settlements of Veleti, around year 1000.
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The Veleti,^[a] also known as Wilzi, Wielzians, and Wiltzes, were a group of medieval Lechitic tribes within the territory of Hither Pomerania, related to Polabian Slavs. They had formed together the Confederacy of the Veleti,^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veleti#cite_note-2} a loose monarchic confederation of the tribes.^[1] Said state existed between the 6th and 10th centuries, after which, it was succeeded by the Lutician Federation.^[2]