Vlach haplogroups & deep ancestry?

Sounds like Hungarian cheap propaganda.
Click to expand...

I never said I supported the theory :P. Just said it was interesting and maybe even plausible.
 
Hi,
very interesting theory from all of you, but how do you think I can seek my roots, in Romania?

Grigoris
 
gfere40 said:
Hi,
very interesting theory from all of you, but how do you think I can seek my roots, in Romania?

Grigoris
Click to expand...


That is because you are not aromani Vlach, But romanian who thinks he is Vlach,

Ειναι απλο, ρωτα ολουσ τους τοπικους συνδεσμους Βλαχοφωνων να σου πουν, οχι μονο στην Ελλαδα αλλα σε ολα τα βαλκανια.
το αν ο παππουσ ηταν ρουμανος δεν σημαινει οτι ηταν Βλαχος,
η γλωσσικη συγγενεια δεν σημαινει καταγωγη


οποιος ξερει Λατινικα δεν σημαινει οτι ειναι Βλαχος.


Everyone who knows Latin does not mean he is a Vlach
 
The Vlachs and Aromanians are an interesting group. I think they do represent the original inhabitants of the Balkan region, as well as other people they absorbed. It's possible they and Romanians were closer together at one point, because their language is believed not to have split much earlier than a thousand years ago. There was probably a proto-Vlach/Romanian area on both sides of the Danube in southwestern Romanian and northeastern Serbia, while some say it was further south around Albania/Illyria. It's possible they split and went different ways, with Daco-Romanians expanding north and assimilating more Slavic peoples who already lived there, such as in northern Transylvania and Moldova, while Aromanians went south and absorbed Greek influences. But we don't know for sure. Some studies I've seen put the Vlachs as somewhat distinct from their neighbors genetically. I've also noticed some similarities with them and the Sarakatsani people of Greece, who are sometimes linked with Thracians.

I know J is important in many Vlach populations, and I thought R1a was relatively low, while R1b was higher. Guess it depends on the region.
Btw is E1b1b necessarily proven to be Illyrian and such? Given it's origins?
 
Milovan said:
I think the bulk of albanian history is a mystery, they have no written records. Outside sources are very sparse, I do not proclaim them to be illyrians either, not enough info to declare anything as fact. I think they obviously have some illyrian in them but so does every other balkan nation.

I have heard wild claims from nationalists there that are laughable at best. I think anything related to any balkan countries needs to have various sources from more then one country to be verified due to everyone hating everyone else there.
Click to expand...

Some Illyrian?You are a funny guy.Most of you Balkan Slavs are the most annoying groups in internet.You never fail to bring up this Illyrian thing among Albanians.Albanians should in no way be compared to Balkan Slavs in term of native ancestry.Reasons?We speak a Paleo-Balkan language.Preservance of language means better preservance of genes too.Speaking about myths.Isn't your people who have spread the nonsense that I2a2-Din was the major Illyrian haplogroup and 10 thousand years old in Balkans(which obviously reflects the Slavic expansion) and similar bullshit propaganda?Ofcourse yes but you are pointing the finger toward Albanians because of your huge inferiority complexes.

Albanians being descendants of Illyrians is not based on myths but on facts.Despite the whole genetic linguistic and historical facts you still are stubborn to aknowledge this.Albanians derive their name from the Illyrian tribe of Albanoi or it's original name being Arber(meaning gold makers in Albanian).Not to mentions dozens of other evidences but it will be offtopic and you would not aknowledge anyway.






Dorianfinder said:
The amount of haplogroup differentiation between Balkan populations is insignificant making the study of specific subclades most useful. If Albanians are in fact predominantly Illyrian then E1b1b (27.5% in Albanians) may indicate Illyrian descent as we find high frequencies of this marker in all Balkan peoples even Bulgarians (16%) whom we know migrated to the Balkans in the 6th century AD. The highest frequencies are found along the Western side of the Balkan peninsular. The highest frequency of E1b1b is found in central Greece (29.5%) with southern Greece not far off (27%). However, this marker is found in 23% of modern Macedonians and 20.5% of modern Serbs. The East has markedly less E1b1b which makes sense if you look at where ancient Illyrian settlements were concentrated.

Dienekes calculated the relative ages of E1b1b in various Balkan communities:

N Age (25y/gen) Age (30y/gen)
Nea Nikomedeia 8 149 1725 BC 2470 BC
Sesklo/Dimini 20 71 225 AD 130 BC
Lerna Franchthi 20 120 1000 BC 1600 BC
Crete 13 68 300 AD 40 BC
Haplozone 103 134 1350 BC 2020 BC
Aromuns (12) 32 71 225 AD 130 BC
Aromuns (8) 32 73 175 AD 190 BC
Slavomacedonians (12) 13 51 725 AD 470 AD
Slavomacedonians (8) 13 59 525 AD 230 AD
Albanians (12) 9 70 250 AD 100 BC
Albanians (8) 9 59 525 AD 230 AD

From these findings it would appear the E1b1b is a relatively young Albanian marker and was first established in the region of Central Macedonia in Greece.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/07/expansion-of-e-v13-explained.html

Haplogroup-E1b1b.jpg


The hotspot of E1b1b in Albanians from Kosova and Albania could well be as a consequence of genetic drift from a relatively recent introduction into the area (c.100BC) from ancient Macedonia, Greece.
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All of EV13 in Balkans is due to genetic drift.The paragroup of EV13 EM78* was found among two Albanians so them being derived from Greeks is Dienekes bullshit just as his Anatolian hypothesis of Indo-European origins.

EV13 was found in Neolithic Spain i guess Greeks were responsible for it's spread there lol.

The spread of EV13 in Balkans reflects a Western Balkans to Eastern Balkans spread.The highest diversity in one study was found in Bosnia.So much of your Greek EV13.
 
so them being derived from Greeks is Dienekes bullshit just as his Anatolian hypothesis of Indo-European origins.
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R1b Indo-Europeans DID come from Anatolia, while R1a ones came from the Central Asian Steppe/Eastern Ukraine.
 
Malsori said:
Some Illyrian?You are a funny guy.Most of you Balkan Slavs are the most annoying groups in internet.You never fail to bring up this Illyrian thing among Albanians.Albanians should in no way be compared to Balkan Slavs in term of native ancestry.Reasons?We speak a Paleo-Balkan language.Preservance of language means better preservance of genes too.Speaking about myths.Isn't your people who have spread the nonsense that I2a2-Din was the major Illyrian haplogroup and 10 thousand years old in Balkans(which obviously reflects the Slavic expansion) and similar bullshit propaganda?Ofcourse yes but you are pointing the finger toward Albanians because of your huge inferiority complexes.

Albanians being descendants of Illyrians is not based on myths but on facts.Despite the whole genetic linguistic and historical facts you still are stubborn to aknowledge this.Albanians derive their name from the Illyrian tribe of Albanoi or it's original name being Arber(meaning gold makers in Albanian).Not to mentions dozens of other evidences but it will be offtopic and you would not aknowledge anyway.








All of EV13 in Balkans is due to genetic drift.The paragroup of EV13 EM78* was found among two Albanians so them being derived from Greeks is Dienekes bullshit just as his Anatolian hypothesis of Indo-European origins.

EV13 was found in Neolithic Spain i guess Greeks were responsible for it's spread there lol.

The spread of EV13 in Balkans reflects a Western Balkans to Eastern Balkans spread.The highest diversity in one study was found in Bosnia.So much of your Greek EV13.
Click to expand...


I recently read some notes/books, that the Albanians with their strong HG E ( which is an african hg) originated from a mix of african and phoenician people, these where called Libby-Phoenicians and they where the elite of hannibals armies. They moved to the shores of albania in small numbers and mixed with the ruling macedonian-epirote people under Philip V of Macedonia.
Albanian is the strangest Indo European language because it doesn't share the word snow with any other Indo European language. That means Albanians didn't come from Caspian Sea with other Indo European tribes but from Phoenician shores.

The oldest Phoenician colony were along Albanian shores:
Aulon-a from Elon or Elion (Phoenician) A name of the sun, recognized as one of the highest active deities or cosmic energies by the Phoenicians; rendered in Greek as 'Elioun. The Hebrew form of this word is found in the Bible in the phrase 'El `elyon, "the God or Divinity on high."
- Elyssium, Elysium from Tyrian princess Elissar or Elyssa (Dido in Greek).
- Foinike from Phoenician
- Lissus from Phoenician colony in Lixus
- Albanian Tosk dialect from Phoenician colony in Toscanos

Leptis Magna
An important Phoenician city, Leptis Magna was later conquered by the Romans and is now an impressive archaeological site near Tripoli. ( origin of the libby-phoenicians, east of modern tripoli )


Besides I believe the illyrians where named illyrians due to a geographical area and where not one race. There languages and genes where different to each other.
- The albanians name was only first used in 150AD, so either they hid in the mountains unseen for 1000 years or they migrated into the balkans late

Now , do I believe that albanians came from the libyan shores - well no ..............
do i beleive they originated in albania - No
do I believe they where illyrian - no
Since the majority of albanins are E hg, where did they come - this is the mistery

bold text is copied from elsewhere
 
^lol.EV-13 were either late Mesolithic people or early Neolithic farmers.EV-13 were not proto Illyrians or proto-Albanian people they were early Balkan people who got assimilated from proto-Illyrians who came from Central Europe.Also,EV-13 makes 45% of overall Albanian Y-DNA among Albanians in Kosovo and ~30% among Albanians from Albania.So EV13=/=Albanian since R1b and J2b2 are major Albanian haplogroups too,the R1b being more present in Kosovo ranging from 21-25% while J2 being more present in Albania.Ev13 is just the most common because of founder effect like in all Balkan countries.

The rest of your post is total crap and unscientific.

Templar said:
R1b Indo-Europeans DID come from Anatolia, while R1a ones came from the Central Asian Steppe/Eastern Ukraine.
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R1b did come from Anatolia but they were not Proto Indo-European for sure.It seems that this paternal lineage is connected with Bell Beaker culture which was late Neolithic comer and started from Southern Portugal.R1b or more specifically some subclades of R1b got Indo-Europeanized in Central Europe where they also acquired more Northern autosomal admix through swapping women with Corded Ware people.

Maybe R1b U152 was the Italic-Celtic marker?


http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/file.php/4470/!via/oucontent/course/9476/gaelic_1_fig008.jpg

http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/U152-S28-poE-CT.png

Apparently R1b U152 is most diverse in Western Poland.
 
Malsori said:
^lol.EV-13 were either late Mesolithic people or early Neolithic farmers.EV-13 were not proto Illyrians or proto-Albanian people they were early Balkan people who got assimilated from proto-Illyrians who came from Central Europe.Also,EV-13 makes 45% of overall Albanian Y-DNA among Albanians in Kosovo and ~30% among Albanians from Albania.So EV13=/=Albanian since R1b and J2b2 are major Albanian haplogroups too,the R1b being more present in Kosovo ranging from 21-25% while J2 being more present in Albania.Ev13 is just the most common because of founder effect like in all Balkan countries.

The rest of your post is total crap and unscientific.



R1b did come from Anatolia but they were not Proto Indo-European for sure.It seems that this paternal lineage is connected with Bell Beaker culture which was late Neolithic comer and started from Southern Portugal.R1b or more specifically some subclades of R1b got Indo-Europeanized in Central Europe where they also acquired more Northern autosomal admix through swapping women with Corded Ware people.

Maybe R1b U152 was the Italic-Celtic marker?


http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/file.php/4470/!via/oucontent/course/9476/gaelic_1_fig008.jpg

http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/U152-S28-poE-CT.png

Apparently R1b U152 is most diverse in Western Poland.
Click to expand...


E-V13 is not founder effect in Balkans

Iberia is very far where we have Mesolithic E Hg from tombs/bones

Balkanic E-V13 is relative to Cyprus Levant

(Kadmeian-Pelasgian most possible or Phoenician)

possible entrance to Balkans is Peloponese during chalkolithic era

considering Homer we see the word Αιθιοψ.

Ethiopeia is probably mother Land of Balcanic E-V13 but probably came from Cyprus
since Akkado-Cyprus knew and had unlimited copper

by what I remember the highest peaks are in Greece and not in Albania (where are highest numbers) and mainly in areas were Achaians settled and not Arbanites,
E-V13 drops to Arberesh and Arbanites (correct me if I am wrong) and in many other Greek populations.

I even hear and read that E-V13 could come from liberation of slaves or Roman armies or Ottoman armies but I don't think so

I guess genetics soon will drop more light
 
Yetos said:
E-V13 is not founder effect in Balkans
Click to expand...

Yes it is.Balkans lacks diversity.All of EV-13 is from a single subclade.

Iberia is very far where we have Mesolithic E Hg from tombs/bones
Click to expand...

Did they found out the Y-DNA of Mesolithic Iberians?Can you link the study?You cannot.Because they didn't test the Y-DNA.

Balkanic E-V13 is relative to Cyprus Levant

(Kadmeian-Pelasgian most possible or Phoenician)

possible entrance to Balkans is Peloponese during chalkolithic era

considering Homer we see the word Αιθιοψ.

Ethiopeia is probably mother Land of Balcanic E-V13 but probably came from Cyprus
since Akkado-Cyprus knew and had unlimited copper

by what I remember the highest peaks are in Greece and not in Albania (where are highest numbers) and mainly in areas were Achaians settled and not Arbanites,
E-V13 drops to Arberesh and Arbanites (correct me if I am wrong) and in many other Greek populations.

I even hear and read that E-V13 could come from liberation of slaves or Roman armies or Ottoman armies but I don't think so

I guess genetics soon will drop more light
Click to expand...

Why do some people resort themself in mythology and make wild guesses concerning haplogroups?Stop this nonsense please.

Archeologically there is a link of Pelasgians with Anatolian people.So we can link them with Anatolian Neolithic invaders who were full of J2a and/or J2b and possible R1b L23+.

Now we have nothing in hand regarding of how EV-13 came to Balkans.It has been found in Neolithic side in Iberia alongside the dominating G2a males of Cardium Pottery Culture.

Now either the G2a Middle Eastern Neolithic people already found the EV13 in Southern Europe who came in late Mesolithic times or EV-13 was in minority alongside the G2a people.

There is a upcoming aDNA study concerning the Balkan Neolithics.Probably we will find answers of our questions.
 
Y-DNA haplogroups from Romania(Cluj,Brasov,Dolj,Mehedinti counties,aslo Basarab surnames)


E-M123 Cluj-1

E-V13 Basarabi-10
Brasov -7
Cluj -9
Dolj -6


E-V22 Brasov -2




G-P15(G2)Basarabi-1
Cluj -3


I-M223/ Brasov -1
I2a2a Dolj -1
Mehedinti-2

I-M253/ Cluj-2
I1 Dolj-4


I-P109/ Brasov-4
I1d1

I-P215/ Dolj-5
I-M438/
I2*


I-P37.2/Basarabi -5
I2a1 Brasov -13
Cluj -6
Dolj -5
Mehedinti-1

I-P41.2/ Cluj-1
I2a1b1a1




J-M241/Basarabi -9
J2b2 Brasov -3
Dolj -2
Mehedinti-2

J-M267/ Brasov-2
J1 Cluj -1

J-M410/ Brasov-4
J2a Cluj -4

J-M67/ Basarabi - 1
J2a4b Cluj - 1
Dolj - 1
Mehedinti -1


J-M92/ Brasov-1
J2a4b1


J-P58/ Basarabi-1
J1c3

N-M231 Cluj-1

Q-M242 Brasov-1

R1b-L21 Cluj-1

R1b-M269 Brasov-2
Cluj -3
Dolj -3

R1b-L48 Cluj-1

R1b-L2/ Cluj -1
R1b S139 Dolj -1
Mehedinti-1

R1a-M17 Basarabi -1
Brasov -7
Cluj -10
Dolj -8
Mehedinti-1


R1a-M458/ Basarabi -1
R1a1a7 Cluj -3
Dolj -1
Mehedinti-3

R1b-U106/ Brasov-3
R1b-s21

R1b U152/ Dolj-1
R1b-s28

R1b-U198 Cluj-1

T-70 Cluj-1


Sample size:

Basarabi -29
Dolj -38
Mehedinti-11
Cluj -50
Brasov -50






http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0041803
 
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Malsori said:
Yes it is.Balkans lacks diversity.All of EV-13 is from a single subclade.



Did they found out the Y-DNA of Mesolithic Iberians?Can you link the study?You cannot.Because they didn't test the Y-DNA.



Why do some people resort themself in mythology and make wild guesses concerning haplogroups?Stop this nonsense please.

Archeologically there is a link of Pelasgians with Anatolian people.So we can link them with Anatolian Neolithic invaders who were full of J2a and/or J2b and possible R1b L23+.

Now we have nothing in hand regarding of how EV-13 came to Balkans.It has been found in Neolithic side in Iberia alongside the dominating G2a males of Cardium Pottery Culture.

Now either the G2a Middle Eastern Neolithic people already found the EV13 in Southern Europe who came in late Mesolithic times or EV-13 was in minority alongside the G2a people.

There is a upcoming aDNA study concerning the Balkan Neolithics.Probably we will find answers of our questions.
Click to expand...

That is true not only one but many

it seems results in balkans by older search seems to be not satisfiying

the thing you know and probably hide since you the Iberian E-V13 is that another Mark of Balkanic
Balkanic is Kushetic and Iberian is North West African. may be I am worng but one is M-79 and the other M-81
maybe I am wrong, but I think that is the situation,
The Balkanic E I think is same with Cyprus and Levant and Phoenicia, and has nothing to do with modern ethnicities in Balkans, but with older

so your in post number #45 where you consider E-V13 as Albanian is accurate?
remember Hommer describes people in Troyan war as Ethiops Αιθιοψ so he knew that Egypt Ethiopean people came to Mycenes,
and I am certain that you don't believe when he describes Ethiops he meant Albanian
 
Yetos said:
That is true not only one but many

it seems results in balkans by older search seems to be not satisfiying

the thing you know and probably hide since you the Iberian E-V13 is that another Mark of Balkanic
Balkanic is Kushetic and Iberian is North West African. may be I am worng but one is M-79 and the other M-81
maybe I am wrong, but I think that is the situation,
The Balkanic E I think is same with Cyprus and Levant and Phoenicia, and has nothing to do with modern ethnicities in Balkans, but with older

so your in post number #45 where you consider E-V13 as Albanian is accurate?
remember Hommer describes people in Troyan war as Ethiops Αιθιοψ so he knew that Egypt Ethiopean people came to Mycenes,
and I am certain that you don't believe when he describes Ethiops he meant Albanian
Click to expand...

lol i cannot believe you are so ignorant.There is so much bullshit in your post that i don't know were to start.

The EV-13 in Iberia was EV-13 not E-M81 Berber clade.

And EV-13 is not a Balkanic marker.It just peaks in Balkans because of founder effect.

Druzes in Levant region have this marker too.It could well be a Natufian marker.

220px-NatufianSpread.svg.png

And please improve your grammar skills.I cannot follow your logic.
 
Malsori said:
All of EV13 in Balkans is due to genetic drift.The paragroup of EV13 EM78* was found among two Albanians so them being derived from Greeks is Dienekes bullshit just as his Anatolian hypothesis of Indo-European origins.

EV13 was found in Neolithic Spain i guess Greeks were responsible for it's spread there lol.

The spread of EV13 in Balkans reflects a Western Balkans to Eastern Balkans spread.The highest diversity in one study was found in Bosnia.So much of your Greek EV13.
Click to expand...




Malsori said:
Yes it is.Balkans lacks diversity.All of EV-13 is from a single subclade.



Did they found out the Y-DNA of Mesolithic Iberians?Can you link the study?You cannot.Because they didn't test the Y-DNA.



Why do some people resort themself in mythology and make wild guesses concerning haplogroups?Stop this nonsense please.

Archeologically there is a link of Pelasgians with Anatolian people.So we can link them with Anatolian Neolithic invaders who were full of J2a and/or J2b and possible R1b L23+.

Now we have nothing in hand regarding of how EV-13 came to Balkans.It has been found in Neolithic side in Iberia alongside the dominating G2a males of Cardium Pottery Culture.

Now either the G2a Middle Eastern Neolithic people already found the EV13 in Southern Europe who came in late Mesolithic times or EV-13 was in minority alongside the G2a people.

There is a upcoming aDNA study concerning the Balkan Neolithics.Probably we will find answers of our questions.
Click to expand...


Malsori said:
lol i cannot believe you are so ignorant.There is so much bullshit in your post that i don't know were to start.

The EV-13 in Iberia was EV-13 not E-M81 Berber clade.

And EV-13 is not a Balkanic marker.It just peaks in Balkans because of founder effect.

Druzes in Levant region have this marker too.It could well be a Natufian marker.

View attachment 5694

And please improve your grammar skills.I cannot follow your logic.
Click to expand...


Answers are here

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25568-African-mtDNA-and-Y-DNA-in-Iberia


http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?27647-Founder-effect-and-other-terminologies



Question
in which study you find that in bold letters?
the only diversity with E M81 and E M78 is in Greece and is exact 2 numbers
in wich searrch and made by who you find that claim in bold?

Question 2
Balkanic E Hg is after botle-neck or founder effect?
and where this bottle-neck or founder effect occured? Cyprus-Levant or Greece Bosnia Albania?

Question 3
Do we have any Founder mutation in E hg in Balkans?

thank you



can you answer the questions for me plz since I am ignorant?
 
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Hello I'm moldovan from Moldova and my mother tongue is romanian (usually we call it moldovan).
 
If you noticed the most mixed nation (by haplogroups) are romanians from Romania. Moldovans got two main haplos R1a and I (mostly I2a but also I1). At least 70% of moldovans are romanian-speaking. As I said romanians are the most mixed, granted to that we got a lot of surnames wich reflects nations' names as you can see below:
1. Rusu (the most spread) (Russian)
2. Ungurean(u) (Hungarian)
3. Sirbu (Serb)
4. Moldovan(u)
5. Grecu (Greek)
7. Bulgar(u) (Bulgarian)
8. Neamtu, Nemtanu (German)
9. Tintar(u) (Aromanian)
10. Vlah(u) (Vlach or Romanian from Walachia)
11. Ardeleanu (Transylvanian)
12. Arnaut(u) (Albanian)
13. Horvat (Croat)
14. Leahu (Pole)

I'm sure that Romanian nation emerged in the same way as American, Canadian or Australian and it happened when Latin (ancient Romanian) was the most spoken language
 
Now I would like to tell you about my views on history. The biggest problem in finding the truth is that most of us blindly believe that all we were taught at school is true, that once a common opinion of some historians was approved by Academy of History is true. How much of you asked itself who were the people that established the chronology of history, the chronology of events, that an event took place earlier or later than other one? These were Scaliger and Petavius at the beginning of 17th century. There were a lot of scholars who didn't agree with the works of those two but powerful Vatican supported the version of Petavius who was a jesuit (maybe he was charged to falsify the history). Since then the chronology of historical facts never was revised. You should understand that initially historians were not supposed to establish the truth but to make a beautiful story about a certain country.

I have my version of history. I have to recognize that I have been inspired by Anatoly Fomenko (his work in english "History: fiction or sience"). But I can't agree at all with him, anyway his works astonished me and turned my imagination about the past at 180º. Most curious is that he's not a ******* historian he's mathematician and he used some mathematical methods invented by himself.

Now... what about Vlachs? What's the biggest difference between east european languages and west european languages? Eastern languages don't have articles in front of nouns, some languages don't have article at all (like russian) and some have the article but as the end part of a noun (like romanian). As you know Latin also doesn't have article in front of nouns, that means Latin is an east european language. Article in Latin is the ending of a word like in Romanian: caine (dog) cainele (the dog), but not in front like: Le maison, La casa, Das Haus, The house and so on.

If Latin is an east european language then what people from eastern part of Europe spoke it? Of course Vlaaaachs(romanians, aromuns, moldovans and so on) because they are the single eastearn people who speak a romance language. You should know that term Byzantium is a conventional term for Eastern Roman Empire invented by western historians to make a difference between two Roman Empires, but actually the true purpose was to make people forget about the first and only true Roman Empire where the Latin spread over Europe from. Maybe because at that time all this ragion was ruled by Ottomans. People living in Bizantine Empire never called themselves bizantines they called themselves Romanians because Bizantium was called Romania. The word Romania comes from the word ROME wich is the same romanian word LUME wich means people and world. Also the word LATIN is the same word LYDIA and means people (german-LEUTE; russian-LYUDI).

The Vlachs are the same Pelasgians and Lydians people who lived before the greeks arrived in Balkan and Anatolia. Even nowadays Greeks don't call themselves Greeks but Helleni who are living in Hellas and not Greece.
The word GREEK or GREECE comes frome GEORGE, GREGORY, JURGEN, ERIC, YURI, YORIK, YORK and so on. That mean that originally a greek was a soldier of the army of George, that's why in Christian world George is one of most important figures and a saint. This George is the same Chingiz Khan wich comes to us from chinese sources. This George (with his greeks) destroyd the first Roman Empire with the capital city in Troy, and brought the slavs and turks with him and maybe the helleni people (I'm not sure about this, I don't exclude helleni were living there before George's arriving).

So... a lot of Vlachs(Lydians, Pelasgians, Troyans) flew westwards were they had colonies and local people were partly romanized(don't forget at that time there weren't living so much people as nowadays do). Historians called this era Dark Age because they were germans, frenchmen, italians(I mean from West) and they knew that this part of Europe didn't have much importance at that time. The center of civilization at that time was in East where Dark Age come much later and is still persisting nowadays. Some time George Khan ruled over all Europe, but later Vatican church tried to hide this fact excluding anything that reminds us the word KHAN. I've found a lot of traces of word Khan especially in the West like Canada = Khanate or like Vatican = Father Khan (Papa de la roma, Patriarch = Father), Canute or Knut (danish king). Western romanized people tried to oppose new ruling calling the germanic peoples to join them. It lead to the emerging of the Frankish Empire and Catholic Church, coz in that time two states couldn't have the same worship.

Do you know that frankish kings considered themselvs Troyans? Historians (stupid historians) consider this aberations because between Troyans and Franks there is an almost 2000 yars. Well these kings weren't historians so they could'nt know much about themselves. How could someone believe that a blind Homer (blind means he couldn't write) so perfectly told his stories about Troy to people that after 400 years someone who knew his stories could put his words on paper. In Moldova, especially in countryside, people conserved carols sung at Christmas having the main theme "Troyan Wars" and this people have no idea who was Homer, because these carols passed on from generation to generation and Homer had nothing to do with these. That means that Troyan Wars took place not so long time ago. But of course Vatican did all the possible to forget about this nightmare sending that back as far as possible (13th century B.C.) and naming George in chinese way Chingiz whose army had never reached the Atlantic.

Why Vatican was so afraid of these events with Troy? Because Troyan Wars mean the collapse of first Rome and a new one was created in nowadays capital city of Italy, this way pretending that there was no other Rome and Vatican Church is the only legitimate power. The new catholic empire was named Francia coz of the term FRANC wich meant FREE, coz they got freedom from the George's army (greeks). Nowadays FRANC can be found as an economic term meaning tax free. This empire was also called Leon(Spain) Lyon(France) Livonia(Baltic countries) from LION that was the symbol of Catholicism. For the Slavs the main symbol was the BEAR, for others in Balkan, Anatolia, Caucasus is the WOLF. The kingdom of Leon in Spain or kingdom of Livonia in Baltic region never existed, these are a reflexion of The Empire of Lion, the same Galic Empire, the same Frankish Empire, the same Roman Empire of German Nation. This empire fell down after a civil war called peacefully Protestant Reformation.

This is a concise presentation of my views on history.
 
kronach said:
If you noticed the most mixed nation (by haplogroups) are romanians from Romania. Moldovans got two main haplos R1a and I (mostly I2a but also I1). At least 70% of moldovans are romanian-speaking. As I said romanians are the most mixed, granted to that we got a lot of surnames wich reflects nations' names as you can see below:
1. Rusu (the most spread) (Russian)
2. Ungurean(u) (Hungarian)
3. Sirbu (Serb)
4. Moldovan(u)
5. Grecu (Greek)
7. Bulgar(u) (Bulgarian)
8. Neamtu, Nemtanu (German)
9. Tintar(u) (Aromanian)
10. Vlah(u) (Vlach or Romanian from Walachia)
11. Ardeleanu (Transylvanian)
12. Arnaut(u) (Albanian)
13. Horvat (Croat)
14. Leahu (Pole)

I'm sure that Romanian nation emerged in the same way as American, Canadian or Australian and it happened when Latin (ancient Romanian) was the most spoken language
Click to expand...

kronach said:
If you noticed the most mixed nation (by haplogroups) are romanians from Romania. Moldovans got two main haplos R1a and I (mostly I2a but also I1). At least 70% of moldovans are romanian-speaking. As I said romanians are the most mixed, granted to that we got a lot of surnames wich reflects nations' names as you can see below:
1. Rusu (the most spread) (Russian)
2. Ungurean(u) (Hungarian)
3. Sirbu (Serb)
4. Moldovan(u)
5. Grecu (Greek)
7. Bulgar(u) (Bulgarian)
8. Neamtu, Nemtanu (German)
9. Tintar(u) (Aromanian)
10. Vlah(u) (Vlach or Romanian from Walachia)
11. Ardeleanu (Transylvanian)
12. Arnaut(u) (Albanian)
13. Horvat (Croat)
14. Leahu (Pole)

I'm sure that Romanian nation emerged in the same way as American, Canadian or Australian and it happened when Latin (ancient Romanian) was the most spoken language
Click to expand...

I agree that Romanians,as a whole, are pretty mixed people(genetically speaking,not ethnic),but definitely they are NOT THE MOST HETEROGENOUS.
After all, this is the place where Central Europe,Easten Europe and the Balkans met.
But you can find here diversity from ancient times: there are several distinct cultures in the Early Bronze Age which probably reflects distinct background.

http://www.eliznik.org.uk/EastEurope/History/history-pre.htm

Anthropology studies from The Bronze and Iron Age usually conclude: lack of homogenity.


http://iit.iit.tuiasi.ro/Reviste/mem_sc_st_2004/mss_series_IV_tome_XXVII_2004_p245.pdf

Roman colonization and Migration Period also played a role here.


But, there are quite homogenous areas(not few,not small) ,some of them from pre-Roman Age,most notably:MARAMURES,OAS,,APUSENI/TARA MOTILOR,BUCOVINA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpathian_Tumuli




From those you mentioned:Grecu,Bulgaru,Tintaru,Arnautu,Leahu- are very rare.
Horvat is a Hungarian name -bearers could be Magyars from Transylvania,Magyarized Romanians or Csango.
Rus/Rusu -does not come from "Russian",but Latin "russus"-red,reddish

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/russus


http://dexonline.ro/definitie/rus

Check out the Italian surnames:
ROSSO, ROSSA,ROSSI, RUSSI, RUSSO, RUGGIU, RUBIU, ROSSELLI, ROSSELLO, ROSSELLINI, RISSIELLO, ROSSILLO, ROSSETTI, ROSSETTO, ROSSETTINI, ROSSITTI, ROSSITTO, ROSSINI, ROSSINO, ROSSOTTI, ROSSOTTO, ROSSINI, ROSSONE, ROSSUTO, RUSSELLO, RUSSINO, RUSSOTTI, RUSSOTTO, RUSSIANI, RUSSOLILLO.

Ungureanu- Romanians from Transylvania were called this way by the Moldavians and Wallachians; it has nothing to do with Hungarians.
Arnautu-initially meant Albanian mercenary guard ,but the latter sense is "armed servant".

http://dexonline.ro/definitie/arnăut

Neamtu, Nemteanu means inhabitant(Romanian) of Neamt region.
The same with Moldovan/Moldoveanu,Ardelean/Ungureanu,as for Vlah- it's not a frequently used name, Romanians didn't call themselves that way.
 
kronach said:
This is a concise presentation of my views on history.
Click to expand...


There's only two branches:Romanian and Aromanian- cause Moldavians are Romanians.

No offense, but this is Stalin's Agenda.
It contains "Moldavian" language also.
Unfortunately,still available.
His purpose was to cut all the links with the West.
Former Securitate fellows claim that Latin was a Thracian branch and Romanians are Pelasgians.

Related theories:Anti-Vlach propaganda from the South Slavic countries.
But guess what language did people spoke before Slavic migration.

Still,he did a lot worse:

Romanians from Basarabia and Bucovina in the workcamps of Kazakhstan and Siberia

http://romaniidinkazahstan.info/img/Copii_Siberia_1950_m.jpg


http://www.flux.md/sys/upload/2009/12.06.2009/p9/Copii-deportati.jpg


http://www.romanimea.com/images/Basarabia/gulagCopii2_s.jpg


Today Romanian comunity from Kazakhstan:

http://foaienationala.ro/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/SimleulSilvaniei1-300x225.jpg


http://elldor.info/wp-content/uploa...inaugurare-monument-deportati-31-mai-2012.jpg

Google type:romanii deportati Kazahstan
 
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