What Europeans think of each other

[Carlitos]

Ok, le entiendo. Yo creo que El Rio de la Plata es la regi?n con m?s inmigraci?n italiana y donde el idioma espa?ol se habr? visto m?s influenciado.
Por ejemplo, "Sho quiero un cigarisho" o la palabra "bambino" para un beb?.

La mayor?a de los argentinos probablemente no hablan el mismo tipo de espa?ol.
Para m? es muy dif?cil escribir espa?ol con una computadora. No puedo pensar en espa?ol y encontrar las letras a la misma vez. Mientras yo escrib?a este carta tuve un error y escrib? dos palabras en ingl?s, casi mando la carta con los errores.
Gracias para su paciencia.

Tampoco todos los espa?oles hablan es mismo tipo de espa?ol, una cosa es el idioma y otra el habla. Debe suceder lo mismo en su pa?s, que var?a el habla de un estado a otro, quiz? incluso de un pueblo a otro dentro de un mismo estado y sin embargo todos hablan en ingl?s.

Por parte de mi abuelo materno en La Plata mi madre tiene unas primas, hace unos a?os vinieron a Espa?a de visita y ten?an un buen espa?ol y en ning?n momento utilizaron ninguna palabra italiana, pero es posible que suceda como usted dice, el propio espa?ol de Espa?a utiliza anglicismos y galicismos.

 

[^ lynx ^]

Even argentinians themself use to say "we are italians who speak spanish".

Regulus, I suggest you to not lose your time with mexiCarlitos. He's too much used to write nonsense about Spain and he's too much used to write it at a very strange hours (2:00 AM to 6:00 AM according to the spanish timezone) very often.

Greetings.

 

[Sybilla]

The way Italians see you...

Germans: Germans are the foreign people with whom Italians have had more contacts during history, but also the one that have been less understood. Italians think Germans are too precise, often almost maniacal, that they are all blondes and that are unfriendly and eat krauts, wurstel and potetos only. Italians also think most Germans are nazis and naughty and become friendly only when they are drunken of beer.

English are considered to be cool, to have handsome men, to wear extremely bad and to be open minded, their cuisine lacks almost everything but they have beautiful music. They are definitely well seen.

French are considered to be snob and to wear well, but also to have many things in common with Italians. They speak a beautiful language and women are very elegant. We consider them as cousins, but we also dispute very easy with them becouse we both have harsh temperament and are too similar: high fashion, good food, rich history and when we come to football France in the worst enemy. Too similarity leads to competitivity.

Spaniards are considered as an exaggerate people: very open spirited, loud and friendly, even more than Italians. Half Italy adores them an other half dislike them in favour of peoples considered more serious, like Germans or English. Sangria, paeilla, corrida, handsome men.

Greeks the brothers of southern Italians. Once my grandmom told me an imagine that I ignored of Greeks: <<Greek men make their women work becouse they are lazy and want only to enjoy the life>>. Classic culture. Italians respect Greeks very much, we think that without them world would be very different, but we are pretty disappointed about their economy. Anyway when Greece collapsed the common sense told us that helping Greece was a due as regard to what they have done for Europe in the past.

 

[Sybilla]

This couldn't be more far from reality. Italian cuisine is purely mediterranean, spanish cuisine is Atlanto-mediterranean and much more variated than the italian one. In fact, Spain is culturally much more complex than Italy.



If you're talking about football, then that's fairly correct but if you're talking in a general sense... Spaniards only want to be superior to other spaniards: Catalonia vs Madrid, Valencia vs Madrid vs Catalonia, etc. etc. That's the way we are (sadly). We don't really give a **** about the rest.

I don't know why we would want to be superior to Italy in the first place when we don't really see you as "something to surpass". Yes, you're still being a bigger economy than us (Italy is more populated than Spain), but our view on Italy is mainly about: Ridiculous populism (guys like Berlusconi doesn't really give you a good name), chaotic corruption at the highest burocratic level (again Berlusconi and friends), and a profoundly sexist and ultra-catholic state (we are far a more atheist, and thus democratic, state than you and spanish female are far more integrated in the economic and political life).

We don't really see Italy as a role-model, and certainly we don't feel like that we have to surpass you, on the contrary, we see Italy as something we have to avoid to become.

Anyways, it was a funny read overall... I had no idea that italians had so many misconceptions about us and I know a lot of italians working here.

Greetings and good night (in your case 2:21).

Edit- By the way in Spain, we use to say that argentinians are "italians who speak spanish", this perfectly sums up our view on both nationalities and countries.

What ignorance, Northern Italy is Alpine not Mediterranean and their cuisine is derived from the French and German one, LOL!!!!
EPIC FAILURE!

Listen, I really don't want to waste my time with you, but Italy has nothing to learn from Spain. Our economy is better not becouse we are more people but becouse we have more industries, otherwise, following your concept, India should be richer than us. Strage way to think
Or do you think that also Germany and France are richer than Spain ONLY becouse they have more people?

Second, we have also the highest IQ of Europe, more nobel prizes than Spain, more variety in cuisine (probably you know only pizza and pasta, but we have an infinity of dishes some of the inspired to the French cuisine, other to the Greek and other to the German, so, make a tour in a good site of Italian cuisine and learn something).

Third, Italian fashion is considered to be the best in the world together with the French, we have Ferrari, Ducati, Lamborghini, ecc.ecc.

Even Argentinians, the only true European country in Southern American, loves to underline the way they are Italian and to regret the Spanish culture/ancestry.

It seems to me that Spaniards suffer some inferiority complexes towards Italy. I've noticed that becouse on forums Spaniars the first thing to do is insulting Italians. Pathetic and sad behavour.

As I don't mean to offend Spain as a whole but only this idiot, I stress the fact that Italians, as a nation, love Spain and consider Spaniards our brothers. So, very strange behavour the Lynx's one...

 

[Sybilla]

And I have already answered you : the fact that according to your own source (become now a trap for you...), countries like Libya, Trinidad and Tobago, Urugay or Jamaica... were before Spain in the 60's show clearly that Spain could almost be considered as a third-word country. And the fact that adult people in all classes of a country need to move in the foreign countries to find work and money is a typical third-world feature. It is not outrageous. Just facts. Did you understand now, or are you trisomic ?




No, the first real waves of the Italian immigrants were in the 50-60's, to work in the industrial basins (especially Ruhr). I don't know about the recent immigration, but the first is clearly economical. Nothing to do with some young French from the upper-classes who try to increase professional experience in US for their CV, and come back to France.

Italians today migrate far less than before and not for economical reason: we can find work also here of course, but we are a travelling people, that's the truth, we like to know other cultures. Some sectors are more productive in other countries than here and vice versa: for exemple an engineer goes to Germany becouse salaries are higher and the country is close to Italy, but if he wants he can find work also here.

I know some Italians who live in Spain and they are planning to go back to Italy becouse although the lifestyle is cool in Spain the wages are low and people don't arrive at the end of the month.

In Europe the only worthing economies are France, Germany, UK and Italy and the small northern European countries like Luxemburg, the Netherlands and Scandinavia.

 

[Regulus]

Even argentinians themself use to say "we are italians who speak spanish".

Regulus, I suggest you to not lose your time with mexiCarlitos. He's too much used to write nonsense about Spain and he's too much used to write it at a very strange hours (2:00 AM to 6:00 AM according to the spanish timezone) very often.

Greetings.

From my side, I only request that you also have patience with my atrociously written Spanish. I decided to give writing in Spanish a try since Carlitos told me that he was using google translator. I thought that my points would not be translated properly if I used the google system also.

 

[Dean]

What ignorance, Northern Italy is Alpine not Mediterranean and their cuisine is derived from the French and German one, LOL!!!!
EPIC FAILURE!

Listen, I really don't want to waste my time with you, but Italy has nothing to learn from Spain. Our economy is better not becouse we are more people but becouse we have more industries, otherwise, following your concept, India should be richer than us. Strage way to think
Or do you think that also Germany and France are richer than Spain ONLY becouse they have more people?

Second, we have also the highest IQ of Europe, more nobel prizes than Spain, more variety in cuisine (probably you know only pizza and pasta, but we have an infinity of dishes some of the inspired to the French cuisine, other to the Greek and other to the German, so, make a tour in a good site of Italian cuisine and learn something).

Third, Italian fashion is considered to be the best in the world together with the French, we have Ferrari, Ducati, Lamborghini, ecc.ecc.

Even Argentinians, the only true European country in Southern American, loves to underline the way they are Italian and to regret the Spanish culture/ancestry.

It seems to me that Spaniards suffer some inferiority complexes towards Italy. I've noticed that becouse on forums Spaniars the first thing to do is insulting Italians. Pathetic and sad behavour.

As I don't mean to offend Spain as a whole but only this idiot, I stress the fact that Italians, as a nation, love Spain and consider Spaniards our brothers. So, very strange behavour the Lynx's one...

I think that you didn't understood lynx's message. He only wanted to say that we spaniards DO NOT see Italy as a model country. He DID NOT said that Italy should learn from spain. Where did you read that??

As always, you (the italians) read the message and get offended and you think, as always again, that we must "suffer some inferiority complex", but you should read again your message and see who wrote about "competition". It was not a spaniard. And it is your message the one who shows some strange inferiority complex, not lynx's one, when you write about IQs and feraris. It seems that you got offended because lynx said that we do not have italy as a model country.

I'm sorry, but this is the pure truth. Italy it is not an admired country in spain. If you get offended, it is your problem. Lynx only replied to this phrase:

There is competition with italians, mainly on their part...

that is, of course, not true. We do not want to compite with you because when we look at you, we see our own problems (the good things too). Is like seeing yourself in a mirror, in some way, but the reflex shown by this mirror is even worse in some points. Like lynx said, "we don't really give a **** about the rest". The exception could be Germany and some other european countries.

But, however, italians are overall very well considered among spaniards. Because we see the good points too in that reflex.

Have a nice day.

 

[^ lynx ^]

What ignorance, Northern Italy is Alpine not Mediterranean and their cuisine is derived from the French and German one, LOL!!!!
EPIC FAILURE!

Listen, I really don't want to waste my time with you, but Italy has nothing to learn from Spain. Our economy is better not becouse we are more people but becouse we have more industries, otherwise, following your concept, India should be richer than us. Strage way to think
Or do you think that also Germany and France are richer than Spain ONLY becouse they have more people?

Second, we have also the highest IQ of Europe, more nobel prizes than Spain, more variety in cuisine (probably you know only pizza and pasta, but we have an infinity of dishes some of the inspired to the French cuisine, other to the Greek and other to the German, so, make a tour in a good site of Italian cuisine and learn something).

Third, Italian fashion is considered to be the best in the world together with the French, we have Ferrari, Ducati, Lamborghini, ecc.ecc.

Even Argentinians, the only true European country in Southern American, loves to underline the way they are Italian and to regret the Spanish culture/ancestry.

It seems to me that Spaniards suffer some inferiority complexes towards Italy. I've noticed that becouse on forums Spaniars the first thing to do is insulting Italians. Pathetic and sad behavour.

As I don't mean to offend Spain as a whole but only this idiot, I stress the fact that Italians, as a nation, love Spain and consider Spaniards our brothers. So, very strange behavour the Lynx's one...

I never said "Italy should learn from Spain", ragazza... I said that "we don't see Italy as a role model, but something we have to avoid to become". And I stand behind my words, sorry if my words hurt you darling but I'm merely stating A FACT and I'm not going to apologize for telling the truth. Italy is not admired in Spain. Life with it.

So relax, take a deep breath and think before posting, because you're embarrasing yourself with this post. It was Julia90 (an italian poster) who brought this stupid Spain vs Italy thing into the topic, no spaniard said a single word about your country until then... that should give some clues about who may be obssesed about the other's country. In Spain we don't waste our time thinking about your country, ragazza.

Ciao.

PS- Oh, and it was Julia90 who suggested that italian cuisine was mediterranean in the first place, btw.

 

[Mzungu mchagga]

The way Italians see you...

Germans: Germans are the foreign people with whom Italians have had more contacts during history, but also the one that have been less understood. Italians think Germans are too precise, often almost maniacal, that they are all blondes and that are unfriendly and eat krauts, wurstel and potetos only. Italians also think most Germans are nazis and naughty and become friendly only when they are drunken of beer.

Hey, that's not true! I also become friendly when I'm drunk of other stuff than beer. Or when I'm stoned! :cool-v:

In Germany we have a saying: "Germans love Italians without respecting them. Italians respect Germans without loving them." I think this sentence puts it to the point. However, sometimes I think only with Italians this attitude becomes really obvious, but could apply also to every other European nation instead of Italy.

Ironically, I was just about to open a new thread about Nazi Germans soon, a topic I just realized wasn't mentioned yet on this forum.

 

[Reinaert]

Germans usually don't get more friendly when they are pissed. They start to whine about their lost territories in the east..

But nothing wrong with the young Germans, when they are sober.

And please, don't start a thread about Nazi's.
It makes me puke.
Today there are living more Nazis in America and England, then there are living in Germany.

 

[Carlitos]

Spain loves Italy and the woman Spanish love Italian men, have a weakness for them. The fact that Spanish cuisine in the past has not achieved international fame who reached the French or Italian cuisine is that Spain did not know in the past sold better, perhaps because other issues prevailed in the country and we were not open Europe or the world for political reasons, but today there are already many Spanish chef who have earned national and international recognition.

 

[julia90]

If you're talking about football, then that's fairly correct but if you're talking in a general sense... Spaniards only want to be superior to other spaniards: Catalonia vs Madrid, Valencia vs Madrid vs Catalonia, etc. etc. That's the way we are (sadly). We don't really give a **** about the rest.

I don't know why we would want to be superior to Italy in the first place when we don't really see you as "something to surpass". Yes, you're still being a bigger economy than us (Italy is more populated than Spain), but our view on Italy is mainly about: Ridiculous populism (guys like Berlusconi doesn't really give you a good name), chaotic corruption at the highest burocratic level (again Berlusconi and friends), and a profoundly sexist and ultra-catholic state (we are far a more atheist, and thus democratic, state than you and spanish female are far more integrated in the economic and political life).

We don't really see Italy as a role-model, and certainly we don't feel like that we have to surpass you, on the contrary, we see Italy as something we have to avoid to become.

I didn't mean to offend you, that was only my impression based on people online, and when i visited Madrid.
The food seemed to me, not much varied (if you compare it with italian or french cusine).. all i ate was Ovo Revueltos (such thing wouldn't ever be proposed in an italian restaurant), big unspiced polos; Paella was very good instead and very varied; at breakfast you use big and fat portion of croissant (too big and fat for italian standard), and even the meats were a bit fat. that was my impression.
sorry.



As for the role model, i think you are right, we have many problems; the countries to look at are Usa, Germany, Britain, Japan.
And mostly country with liberal economy policies, and less bureaucracy, things that italy lacks.

 

[julia90]

Hey, that's not true! I also become friendly when I'm drunk of other stuff than beer. Or when I'm stoned! :cool-v:

In Germany we have a saying: "Germans love Italians without respecting them. Italians respect Germans without loving them." I think this sentence puts it to the point. However, sometimes I think only with Italians this attitude becomes really obvious, but could apply also to every other European nation instead of Italy.

Ironically, I was just about to open a new thread about Nazi Germans soon, a topic I just realized wasn't mentioned yet on this forum.

You should be a model, for you response, as you don't seem offended, by our thinkings and critics

 

[julia90]

t. It was Julia90 (an italian poster) who brought this stupid Spain vs Italy thing into the topic, no spaniard said a single word about your country until then... that should give some clues about who may be obssesed about the other's country. In Spain we don't waste our time thinking about your country, ragazza.

Ciao.

PS- Oh, and it was Julia90 who suggested that italian cuisine was mediterranean in the first place, btw.

i'm sorry i don't want to bring animosity. maybe i was too critic.

Italian cusine is mostly mediterranean, only in northern italy you don't find standard mediterranean cusine, with plates such as Polenta and Fonduta.

 

[Carlitos]

This typical and traditional restaurant in Madrid is considered by the Guinness Book of Records as the oldest in the world. Maybe so, not knowing there is other information that another restaurant somewhere in the world that has longer than this and to continue providing their services. This famous and legendary restaurant opened in 1725.

You have to know where to look, but when you go to tourist can stop anywhere to do any kind of food, not knowing the sites, but certainly in Madrid you can eat great, by God, this is Madrid! by Madrid to heaven, as the saying goes.

Please excuse him, Spanish is very likely, is due to years of isolation, not just find your place or feel that we must be continually demonstrate to Europe that we are Europeans, we must have patience, nothing more.

 

[Regulus]

Spain loves Italy and the woman Spanish love Italian men, have a weakness for them. The fact that Spanish cuisine in the past has not achieved international fame who reached the French or Italian cuisine is that Spain did not know in the past sold better, perhaps because other issues prevailed in the country and we were not open Europe or the world for political reasons, but today there are already many Spanish chef who have earned national and international recognition.

I think that Iberian food is great. We have many Portuguese and Spanish in New Jersey and there is no shortage of good restaurants.

Mariscada en salse verde!:grin:

 

[barbarian]

my all time favourite is greece cuisine. and uzi as an alcoholic beverage (and raki of course).

 

[Dean]

I didn't mean to offend you, that was only my impression based on people online, and when i visited Madrid.
The food seemed to me, not much varied (if you compare it with italian or french cusine).. all i ate was Ovo Revueltos (such thing wouldn't ever be proposed in an italian restaurant), big unspiced polos; Paella was very good instead and very varied; at breakfast you use big and fat portion of croissant (too big and fat for italian standard), and even the meats were a bit fat. that was my impression.
sorry.



As for the role model, i think you are right, we have many problems; the countries to look at are Usa, Germany, Britain, Japan.
And mostly country with liberal economy policies, and less bureaucracy, things that italy lacks.

I'm sorry Julia90, but i think that you missed a lot of gastronomic food if you only have eaten pollo, huevos revueltos (¿huevos rotos?), tortilla y paella in Spain. What about sopa castellana, cocido madrileño, fabes asturianas, botillo, Cochinillo asado, gachas, pisto manchego, lentejas, bacalao a la riojana, merluza a la vasca, anchoas del cantabrico, paellas y arroces, sopas de verdura, de tomate, de ajo, etc, etc, etc.... Each region have its own gastronomic food. We eat all fish/seafood or vegetables (in fact, Spain is the 2º biggest fish/seafood consumer country) that you can imagine, we have thousand cheese variety, wines.... In Madrid you can eat any spanish food in many restaurants. I repeat, i'm sorry that you only ate chicken and eggs.

 

[^ lynx ^]

@ Julia90.

You don't need to apologize, I didn't felt offended by your message. It was Sybilla who made a big deal out of this.

Greetings.

 

[Carlitos]

I think that spanish food is great. We have many Portuguese and Spanish in New Jersey and there is no shortage of good restaurants.

Mariscada en salse verde!:grin:

Spanish food is excellent, but was always unknown in the rest of the world than French or Italian cuisine. The current problem is that France and Italy do not know how to fit the new situation in Spain, a country that has emerged from its slumber and France and Italy have something of amazement and fear, as all things French (cuisine, fashion etc) and Italian is seen more than a comic, then there is Spain, a country that France criticized and accused of being the third world and Italy that we see with good eyes, what funny as well, but not a competitive series, but now things have changed and are afraid of a country as old as them, but that comes back re-emerging as a novelty and the situation in France and Italy are concerned.