Immigration What should Europeans do with illegal immigrants?

[bicicleur 2]

Well, they sure as heck aren't going to accept the Christian ones...you can't even hold Christian services in Saudi Arabia. That's why the Christian refugees have to be processed separately.

zero, nobody
no Christians, no Muslims, not a single refugee gets in there

but they want to build 200 mosques in Germany on their expenses

several immams preaching fundamentalism and hatred have been expelled out of Europe the last few years
many of them were funded by Saudi Arabia

 

[John Doe]

can't read it
you say immagrants, or where they refugees?
and on what criteria were they accepted?

I warned that it was in Hebrew.
They weren't accepted, they illegally entered Israel from the Sinai but were allowed to stay, their refugee status isn't recognised but most aren't deported because they have nowhere else to go.

 

[matbir]

How many immigrants have many east European countries accepted? Israel has around 55,000 (as of 2012) immigrants from Sudan and Eritrea thank you very much [http://www.piba.gov.il/PublicationAndTender/ForeignWorkersStat/Documents/סיכום שנתי 2011.pdf] (please be aware that the article is in Hebrew). Be so kind as to provide a source for the 800,000 refugees from Ukraine?

I can't open your PDF.
I heard the numbers in TV about current affairs, Senator Jan Libicki mentioned that in Masovian Voivodeship there are 220 000 people from Ukraine, while journalist Bogusław Chrabota sad that about 800 000 Ukrainians live in Poland. Here is this discussion( they say that about 15:20); I doubt it will be useful for you because it is in Polish. Newsweek Polska writes about 400 000 Ukrainian workers in Poland in year 2015, here is article also in Polish.

Even though I can see the number of Ukrainians increased in Poland significantly, you can hear them every ware on streets, shops, pubs, clubs and universities.

 

[DejaVu]

http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/migration/migration.htm
Replacement Migration:
Is It a Solution to Declining and Ageing Populations?
United Nations projections indicate that over the next 50 years, the populations of virtually all countries of Europe as well as Japan will face population decline and population ageing.
The new challenges of declining and ageing populations will require comprehensive reassessments of many established policies and programmes, including those relating to international migration.
Focusing on these two striking and critical population trends, the report considers replacement migration for eight low-fertility countries
(France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Republic of Korea, Russian Federation, United Kingdom and United States) and two regions (Europe and the European Union).
Replacement migration refers to the international migration that a country would need to offset population decline and population ageing resulting from low fertility and mortality rates.

 

[bicicleur 2]

I warned that it was in Hebrew.
They weren't accepted, they illegally entered Israel from the Sinai but were allowed to stay, their refugee status isn't recognised but most aren't deported because they have nowhere else to go.

there are many like that in Europe too
and in many cases Europe has been to leniant with them
would that be a ground to refuse present flow of Syrian refugees?

 

[LeBrok]

My view is that zionists are extreme nationalists, is this right or wrong?

By this definition you are a Zaionist, lol.

Its not about what i believe but the information exist on the web and can be shared if someone want to question it?

There are extreme nationalists in every country and of course it does not represent all people and what they want.

It is not the information much, but the Intent that makes you a racist. Every post you present only material to discredit and degrade Muslims and Jews. Your intent, your premeditated will to harm others, your constant hatred towards, what you consider, anti-European, makes you a racist.

 

[LeBrok]

How many syrian immigrants have the gulf states accepted............zero

Official spokesman of Saudi Arabia claim that they accepted half a million.

This is a very informative Wiki page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War

 

[LeBrok]

http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/migration/migration.htm
Replacement Migration:
Is It a Solution to Declining and Ageing Populations?
United Nations projections indicate that over the next 50 years, the populations of virtually all countries of Europe as well as Japan will face population decline and population ageing.
The new challenges of declining and ageing populations will require comprehensive reassessments of many established policies and programmes, including those relating to international migration.
Focusing on these two striking and critical population trends, the report considers replacement migration for eight low-fertility countries
(France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Republic of Korea, Russian Federation, United Kingdom and United States) and two regions (Europe and the European Union).
Replacement migration refers to the international migration that a country would need to offset population decline and population ageing resulting from low fertility and mortality rates.

Fewer people? Maybe it is better for Earth? And more water resources per capita. Shortage of fresh water avoided!
It sounds like a good news.

 

[LeBrok]

they get all the rights of citizenship

once they are granted refugee status they enjoy all the rights regular Belgians have and this is irreversible

whether they afterwards also apply for Belgian nationality or not doesn't matter

Off top of my head refugee on long stay permit can be deported for criminal offences, refugee can't leave the country of residence for longer time. That's the difference between citizenship and permanent stay. I'm actually surprised that people on long stay permit/permanent residency have almost same rights as citizens. For my liking they shouldn't be able to vote.

In recent years, however, the citizenship requirements have become stricter with increasing integration and language conditions, therefore fewer people are actually managing to become Belgian citizens.

http://www.expatica.com/be/visas-and-permits/How-to-apply-for-Belgian-citizenship_100133.html

 

[Angela]

Fewer people? Maybe it is better for Earth? And more water resources per capita. Shortage of fresh water avoided!
It sounds like a good news.

The smaller pool of working age people can't pay for all the pensions, health care, etc. for all these old people.

That's the theory, anyway.

The other wrinkle is that native born people, whether it's in Europe or in California, are not willing to go out into the fields to pick grapes, or artichokes or whatever. They're also not willing to work in sweatshops in subhuman conditions.

Again, that's the argument.

There's a reason why manufacturer's associations and big agriculture are against limits on immigration.

I should add that I'm surprised that the statistics show that so many immigrants get government assistance here in the U.S. All the landscapers, unskilled construction workers etc. whom I see are Central Americans. So are all the cleaning ladies, virtually all the fast food workers, and many of the kitchen employees in regular restaurants for that matter. They work damn hard. To qualify for aid, they must be getting paid peanuts.

 

[Yetos]

The smaller pool of working age people can't pay for all the pensions, health care, etc. for all these old people.

That's the theory, anyway.

The other wrinkle is that native born people, whether it's in Europe or in California, are not willing to go out into the fields to pick grapes, or artichokes or whatever. They're also not willing to work in sweatshops in subhuman conditions.

Again, that's the argument.

There's a reason why manufacturer's associations and big agriculture are against limits on immigration.

and that is a big mistake,
in Europe Bananas are cheaper than apples,
so why a European should gather apples?
we speak about poverty and hunger, but we also take other continents fruits/food cheaper than we should gather our own,
so why to work at the fields?
that is the game of multi-national corporations,
kiwi is sold 20-27 Ecents at field and in market reach 2-4 E per kilo
that is also a big mistake of states policy, which cann't take care good handdle of working power,
for example gathering all year and not 2-3-6 months,

so why to produce an iphone in US when I earn more by importing it from China and sell it x100 the cost?
why to produce -gather-sell aplles, when at supermarkets imported bannanas are so cheap?
I live in an area which is called peach heaven, the only area that could 'run' with California with peach production
at 80's competition was so strong that hit many times #1 at global standards,
at 2010 has the same price and all deserted, imported peach with not even half the quality costs less than half the total price of producing and gathering,
even cooperations start importing coffee and frozen peach juice to make juice, cause a cup of coffee or green tea advertised at TV sells,
but not a fresh squized peach juice, cause the profit is not the same,
kiwi's here are rotten in the fields, we consume quantities, but how much you can sell?
go to a journey undertown, kiwi juice is selled 1,5-2,5 E, and CAFE trademark same price,
IN WEST WE DO NOT SAY LETS GO TO A REFRESHMENT SHOP AND DRINK SOME JUICE,
WE SAY LETS GO TO COFFEE SHOP AND DRINK TEA,
EU put limits in sugar production, cause white sugar is toxic as claimed, and rich at callories
5 big factories that had thousands workers closed at 80's in order Greece enter EU
but considers coffee and tea a healthy product!!!
stevia and aspartame which have heavy effect at kidneas where promoted even by advertising


on the other hand a good understand the problem is at US Dixie,
who is in charche there? farmers or bankers and agro-pharmacy corporations?

 

[LeBrok]

The smaller pool of working age people can't pay for all the pensions, health care, etc. for all these old people.

That's the theory, anyway.

I was overly sarcastic in my comment. I'm very aware of demographics, population decline in rich countries and politics behind it. In Denmark they have a slogan "Do it for Denmark", to entice people to make children.
Anyway, I'm still optimistic that we can avoid taking care of elderly problem, and paying for one's pension, by way of robotics. In 20-50 years we could have 2-10 robots working for and taking care of every retiree. Now young people in working force required.
With overall demographic decline I'm not sure what it is going to be. Do we need 50 million people in a country, or maybe 5 million will suffice? What is the "healthy" level of population per sq km? Is it humanly possible to answer these questions?
Even if young people don't make enough kids, due to birth control and packed schedule with pleasures, there always will be kids loving people who will make 3-6 of them. By way of natural selection they and their DNA will become dominant in population,at some point, and overpopulate nation again, ...till some quota will need to be introduced by government.

The other wrinkle is that native born people, whether it's in Europe or in California, are not willing to go out into the fields to pick grapes, or artichokes or whatever. They're also not willing to work in sweatshops in subhuman conditions.

Again, that's the argument.

There's a reason why manufacturer's associations and big agriculture are against limits on immigration.

I should add that I'm surprised that the statistics show that so many immigrants get government assistance here in the U.S. All the landscapers, unskilled construction workers etc. whom I see are Central Americans. So are all the cleaning ladies, virtually all the fast food workers, and many of the kitchen employees in regular restaurants for that matter. They work damn hard. To qualify for aid, they must be getting paid peanuts.

It is so hard to imagine well run rich country without few millions of economic migrants doing all the hard, dirty and low paying jobs. Can you imagine economic chaos in US, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Germany or GB and rest of the rich, if one day all the immigrants left? Hollywood should make a horror movie like this.

 

[bicicleur 2]

The smaller pool of working age people can't pay for all the pensions, health care, etc. for all these old people.

That's the theory, anyway.

The other wrinkle is that native born people, whether it's in Europe or in California, are not willing to go out into the fields to pick grapes, or artichokes or whatever. They're also not willing to work in sweatshops in subhuman conditions.

Again, that's the argument.

There's a reason why manufacturer's associations and big agriculture are against limits on immigration.

I should add that I'm surprised that the statistics show that so many immigrants get government assistance here in the U.S. All the landscapers, unskilled construction workers etc. whom I see are Central Americans. So are all the cleaning ladies, virtually all the fast food workers, and many of the kitchen employees in regular restaurants for that matter. They work damn hard. To qualify for aid, they must be getting paid peanuts.

well, if that is necessary let laborers in with a temporary working permit

but

some people claim the refugees will save pensions and social security
well, that remains to be seen
I don't see that happening with those that entered Europe during the last few decades
and immigration with the argument of 'family reunion' has worsened the situation even more

indeed people in the west are spoiled
they want to work less hours and retire earlier
they live longer and health care gets more and more sophisticated but at expensive prices
they want enjoy themselves and don't have time to raise kids

these people in the west should be aware that that is not a viable lifestyle

immigration is the worst solution to solve it
conflicts worldwide should be avoided or resolved
people worldwide should get the chance to develop themselves in their own local economy

 

[bicicleur 2]

Off top of my head refugee on long stay permit can be deported for criminal offences, refugee can't leave the country of residence for longer time. That's the difference between citizenship and permanent stay. I'm actually surprised that people on long stay permit/permanent residency have almost same rights as citizens. For my liking they shouldn't be able to vote.


http://www.expatica.com/be/visas-and-permits/How-to-apply-for-Belgian-citizenship_100133.html

well you can see for yourself, after five years you can apply for Belgian citizenship
so after 5 years each accepted refugee can do so
but from day 1 they get all the rights, including voting rights

you confirm yourself that this is not logical

you've seen the video with these people stealing from the refugee camp in Brussels
these people are living in the suburbs and are in Belgium since decades
they have no link whatsoever with Belgium execept that is where recieve housing and social security
many even don't speak French or Dutch after all these years
the second generation are school dropouts and many became drugdealer
it is an excellent recruitement area for ISIS

if citizenship requirements are getting stricter I hope they'll start refusing these

the discussion about evnetual expulsion of criminals has just started, many of those who are bringing this up being labelled 'racists'
there is also the discussion whether returned Syria ISIS fighter should keep social security in Belgium and whether Belgian nationality can be taken away

can you understand the anger of many hardworking Belgian taxpayers?

 

[Vallicanus]

well you can see for yourself, after five years you can apply for Belgian citizenship
so after 5 years each accepted refugee can do so
but from day 1 they get all the rights, including voting rights

you confirm yourself that this is not logical

you've seen the video with these people stealing from the refugee camp in Brussels
these people are living in the suburbs and are in Belgium since decades
they have no link whatsoever with Belgium execept that is where recieve housing and social security
many even don't speak French or Dutch after all these years
the second generation are school dropouts and many became drugdealer
it is an excellent recruitement area for ISIS

if citizenship requirements are getting stricter I hope they'll start refusing these

the discussion about evnetual expulsion of criminals has just started, many of those who are bringing this up being labelled 'racists'
there is also the discussion whether returned Syria ISIS fighter should keep social security in Belgium and whether Belgian nationality can be taken away

can you understand the anger of many hardworking Belgian taxpayers?

No, he can't understand anything outside his liberal world view.

 

[Vallicanus]

BTW the old Europe, for good or ill, is over and will become more and more part of the Third World.

Italy in particular (low birth rate plus mainly SS African migrants crossing the Med to Sicily) will be slowly Africanised and an assertive Islam will brush aside the secularism of western Europe.

 

[Yetos]

the bellow is from UN


http://data.unhcr.org/mediterranean/regional.html

it is intresting at the link the % of raise

 

[DejaVu]

By this definition you are a Zaionist, lol.

It is not the information much, but the Intent that makes you a racist. Every post you present only material to discredit and degrade Muslims and Jews. Your intent, your premeditated will to harm others, your constant hatred towards, what you consider, anti-European, makes you a racist.

You are full of lies and preconceptions. All are welcome to debate but not according to you, its forbidden.
What content is discredit to any ethnic people? Your understanding is very low and you provoke people to get banned by your comments.
Best you can do is just stay away from any discussion that doesnt suits your values.
Truth discredits everyone or just some people?

 

[DejaVu]

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/5770/syria_s_assad_says_most_dangerous_isis_leaders_are_from_scandinavia
Syria's Assad says most dangerous ISIS leaders are from Scandinavia
As concerns continue to grow about Europeans departing to join ISIS,
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has revealed that he believes the most dangerous ISIS leaders
may not be either homegrown or from Britain or France, but from Scandinavia.

Jihadi John is British. But Jihadi Bjorn may well be from Scandinavia. According to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, the most dangerous leaders of Islamic State (also widely known as ISIS) come from Nordic countries such as Sweden and Norway.Swedish media outlet The Local reported on Friday that Assad had given a video interview to Swedish tabloid newspaper Expressen in which he said:
"As long as we have terrorism growing in different European countries, Sweden cannot be safe... The most dangerous leaders of Isis in our region are Scandinavian…that’s what we have as information."
Analysts believe Muslims account for around five percent of the Swedish population, with that percentage projected to double by 2030, according to cautious estimates.
According to The Local, Sweden's Security Service (Säpo) says that at least 150 Swedes have gone to fight for ISIS, with 35 of them having been killed.

 

[Sergio]

Good points Le Brook, I just remembered the article: "Refugees reporting higher earnings in Canada than investor immigrants", published at the National Post this year, in which stated that Refugee immigrants are reporting higher incomes to the Canada Revenue Agency than investor-class immigrants, according to data compiled by Citizenship and Immigration Canada.
Regarding local action, Nenshi said "But regardless of all the rest of it, we have tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of desperate people, and we have a country that's known as being a safe haven and we have to be able to do that.", I hope Harper can join the will, and the new government to be elected the new month, too.