Where did haplogroup T first originate

Where did haplogroup T first originate

  • The levantine coast (Lebanon, Israel,Jordan)

    Votes: 5 15.6%
  • The Persian gulf region ( southwestern Iran)

    Votes: 11 34.4%
  • The pamir knot (Afghanistan/Tajikistan) frontier

    Votes: 4 12.5%
  • By the Red Sea (Saudi Arabian coast.)

    Votes: 3 9.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 9 28.1%

  • Total voters
    32
The link isn't working; anyways it's posted above it works there, post #4 , sorry about that
 
All in all, if the 18% T Sciacca and 16% T Ibiza statistics are correct, coupled with geno 2.0's 15-20% of Jordanians and the above study's 5% of Palestinians and Madeira islanders + 13% of northern Corsicans and 25% on Chios, then we seriously start getting the Phoenicians of Lebanon/Canaan as a heavyweight contender for the spread of T across the Mediterranean world. Then you get 10% Cadiz; the only abnormality is the virtual absence of T in modern day Lebanon, unless you have a statistic or two you can pull out to prove me wrong ; ). The study I checked found abnormally high T in Somalians (10%), Omanis (8%), Egyptians and Iraqis (7%) and surprisingly Druze, Palestinians, Madeira islanders, Ethiopians and Wairak of Tanzania as well (5%).
 
I know multiple canary islanders positive for T (even T1a1a3) , 16% on Ibiza are T and 5% of men on Madeira islands are T. Personally, I don't know who could have introduced 5% T in Madeira islanders other than the Phoenicians who we know sailed passed Gibraltar, even as far as the Atlantic every now and then. Unless there was some type of Jewish expedition to the region, which as of now I doubt. Also, the ancient Phoenician colony of Cadiz, sort of a 'half-way point" between Ibiza and Canary/Madeira islands, has 10% T as well. When we combine north Corsica's 12-13% T with the 18% T in Sciacca (western Sicily) a pattern starts to appear more or less.
 
All those particular coastal Mediterranean regions align perfectly with the ancient presence of Phoenician colonies. Ibiza, for example, has the highest "national" frequencies of T in Europe, far out-beating Sicily's combined 6% T. Ibiza has about 17% T. This entire island was heavily settled by the Phoenicians and was called "Ibossim" in the ancient Phoenician tongue. It was sort of a small Phoenician island-nation for quite some time before the Phoenicians fell under Assyrian pressure in their mainland, after this the Greeks took control. A good indicator of ancient Phoenician presence would be production of purple dye.
 
It would seem thomas Jefferson was also a T1a1a3; today it is found most highly in Egyptians. It is probably of pre-Phoenician NEOLITHIC origin in Europe, having arrived some 5,000-10,000 years ago, according to a y-dna T expert.
 
T1a1a3 cluster
Pavia, Lombardia
Pavia, Lombardia
Mozabites, Ghardaia (Algeria)
Funchal, Madeira
Keghi, Turkey (Armenians) surname Mirakian
Aragón (Northeast Iberia)
Easingwold, North Yorkshire (Walker Grice surname) England
Eduardo Henriquez, Cuba (Canary islands)
Asturias (Northwest Iberia)
Galicia (Northwest Iberia)
Zoiliano Soto, Puerto Rico (origin: Fes, Morocco)
Azar Choukroun (Fes, Morocco)
Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Saudi Arabia
Central Portugal
Assiut, Southern Egyptian
Assiut, Southern Egyptian
Saudi Arabia
North Lebanon, Sunnite Muslim
Lebanon
Dublin, Ireland (Crump surname)
Bridlington, East Riding of Yorkshire (Kidd surname) England
Jefferson (sunrame) England
Jefferson (sunrame) England
Jefferson (sunrame) England
Essenheim, Germany ( surname Fishel )
Cork, Munster, Ireland (Duke surname)
Funchal, Madeira ( Surname Gomes de Faria )
surname Cariri do Nascimento
German Stilfs (South Tyrol)
Dubai
Campania
Keghi, Turkey (Armenians) surname Oolovgian
 
Iraqw, (Tanzania)
Iraqw, (Tanzania)
south-central italian
south-central italian
Iraqw, Tanzania
Iraqw, Tanzania
Palestinian Muslim Arab
Palestinian Cristian Arab
 
I find it strange that there is 14% T in Antalya, in the ancient Phoenician Turkish province of Finike, which would then come to be know "Lycia". Assiut, a city from which there are many T1a1a3 haplotypes was once known as "lycopolis" "lyco" or "Lycaon", in my opinion due to Phoenician presence in this region. The positionment of these T1a1a3 haplotypes to me, is in synch with Phoenician Mediterranean presence.
 
I've joined a "represent T group" XD there is me, a Palestinian, west Iranian, Druze, Iraqi, a Hungarian, Algerian, Cypriot, Kuwaiti, more Turks, Sicilians, southern Italians than I can account for, a few African fellows, englishmen, a Georgian, a German, some people from the Latin American world; interesting.
 
I've been speaking with a T Somalian man,he is telling me the isaaq, Darod, basically all Horn of Africa clans high in T descend from Hashemites of the Quraysh tribe of the central Red Sea coast region of Saudi Arabia (coastal Hejaz). Same for the Madagascar tribes having stories of origins from Mecca (Quraysh home). The Hashemites/Quraysh ironically expanded into Jordan and Iraq most notably. This aligns very well with the ftdna samples, of which many are men of Saudi Arabian descent, MEMBERS of the Quraysh tribe and Banu Hashim men as well, from Iraq to Somalia.
 
I've been speaking with a T Somalian man,he is telling me the isaaq, Darod, basically all Horn of Africa clans high in T descend from Hashemites of the Quraysh tribe of the central Red Sea coast region of Saudi Arabia (coastal Hejaz). Same for the Madagascar tribes having stories of origins from Mecca (Quraysh home). The Hashemites/Quraysh ironically expanded into Jordan and Iraq most notably. This aligns very well with the ftdna samples, of which many are men of Saudi Arabian descent, MEMBERS of the Quraysh tribe and Banu Hashim men as well, from Iraq to Somalia.

you do know that T-L131 is 3300 years older than T-P77 as per mendez papers, with this, and also info that L131 is older and we already know its more Northern than P77 we can conclude that the Mesopotamian, Arabian and African T of these areas are "newer"

older than L131 and P77 is PS21 and that is 3100 years older than L131...and PS21 originates in assyrian and north of assyrian lands....................did'nt you read Mendez paper...its the main paper for T
 
What can be found "north of Assyrian lands"? The oldest T haplotypes were seen in levant and Iran at 20,000 years I believe, where did it originate in your opinion?
 
What can be found "north of Assyrian lands"? The oldest T haplotypes were seen in levant and Iran at 20,000 years I believe, where did it originate in your opinion?

We also estimated the TMRCA of different branches of the tree (T, T1,
T1a, T1a2, and T1b) using a parametric (BATWING) and a nonparametric (Td)
method. Based on Td and 17 Y-STRs, the estimates for the TMRCAs of the
haplogroups defined by M70, PS21, L131, and P77 are 16.9 Ky, 14.0 Ky, 10.9
Ky, and 7.6 Ky, respectively (Table 2). We did not estimate the TMRCA of the
entire T haplogroup using this method because the asymmetry caused by the
presence of only a single M184* chromosome would likely lead to an
underestimation of the age of M184.

M70 = 16.9
PS21 = 14.0
L131 = 10.9
P77 = 7.6

M184 = over 20000

P326 which is shared between L and T is 46000

what are you asking?

I said PS21 is assyrian and north of assyria...could be more assyrian, ..........check your history books who was there
 
Armenians I guess? So PS21 originated somewhere near northern Iraq/Armenia. T-M70+ I guess Iran? T is pretty diverse in both the levant and Iran, a few studies indicate even higher diversity in the levant than for Iran.
 
Armenians I guess? So PS21 originated somewhere near northern Iraq/Armenia. T-M70+ I guess Iran? T is pretty diverse in both the levant and Iran, a few studies indicate even higher diversity in the levant than for Iran.

I was just thinking, have you looked into , if you could be of CHALDEAN stock, they are Mesopotamian and later moved to Phoenicia ( lebanon). Many went to Spain and Italy as the majority are catholics/christians in faith
 
I was just thinking, have you looked into , if you could be of CHALDEAN stock, they are Mesopotamian and later moved to Phoenicia ( lebanon). Many went to Spain and Italy as the majority are catholics/christians in faith

If you're talking about a movement of people from Chaldea to Phoenicia when the term "Phoenicia" was current, then you're confusing the ancient Chaldeans of SE Mesopotamia, the tribe who largely ruled the Neo-Babylonian Empire, with the modern Chaldean Catholics, so-called because "Chaldean" became synonymous with "Mesopotamia" by the time their first patriarchate was given its name in 1553. Chaldean Catholics are probably not descended primarily from the ancient Chaldeans, but rather share common ancestry with modern Assyrians, who seem to be primarily descended from ancient Assyrians and other populations who passed through the northern Mesopotamia region.

That said, I'm not sure what movement to Phoenicia you're talking about. When did that happen? If it's something more recent and you really do mean Chaldean Catholics, then probably "Phoenicia" isn't the right term to be using for the region.
 
The Al-Sabah related family of Kuwait is a T too (related to Al-Khalifa) sorry about the terribly gay music lolll, I didn't exactly make the video
 

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