Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[1337_]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrius

 

[PaleoRevenge]

And how exactly do we know that ?

Kukes sample fits the Komani time frame. Let's agree to disagree on the linguistic affiliation of Kruja-Komani. The other two are self explanatory.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

I'm not talking about Thracian or Illyrian names, but non-Thracian and non-Illyrian names in Dardania which have no parallels. Also the Albanoi carried unusual names, clearly non-Illyrian, one Thracoid (very similar) and likely Brygian.




Both are possible. Also Late Antiquity arrival of Thracian V13's.

The Mediana culture usually associated with the original Dardanians, possibly Dardanians of Troy had a MBA continuity, but it also did receive a group of conservative Gava people which kept to themselves. This was before the Psenicevo proto-Thracian migrants. Balkan Thracian E is very Southern shifted, while the LBA E, likely Gava, has much more Steppe (EBA E also). These migrants could have been of that pre-Southern autosomal E variety, some distant relatives of Thracians. So Albanians could derive of MBA locals, likely Z2103, but V13 shouldn't be excluded. If the Beskidi are PA related (some authors say they are Latin), Carpathians though look to be related with Albanian karpë.

ofc these Gavans could have carried also J2a etc.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y17946/

BR2 Kyjatice sample is distantly related to one Albanian. This upper Romanian is a German, but the bottom Romanian might be Romanian.

But if Albanians have some old Gava pre EIA Balkan ancestry, maybe the FGC11450 clades are the best candidates.

Even Mucat of Albanoi being a distant cousin of many Thracian Muca's cannot be excluded. But Shtip, Nish and apparently some possible Illyrian Dardanian dialect influence from 6th-7th century AD on Albanian pull away from the Albanoi, combined with the etymological situation in Albania.

You don't have to convince me that Albanian was not spoken in Albania before the middle ages, the theory is a dead-end. I can't figure out who was in the lead, the E-V13 or the R1b, and they came from different linguistic groups, it's a linguistic question as well.

I would not be too concerned with the Thracians being southern shifted, they are still somewhat close to modern Albanians, and suspiciously closer to the post-medieval ones(Albs 300-400 years ago).
Based on the graph, if you mix early Albanian population with the average neighboring Balkans Slav(who are about 45-50% autosomal Slavic, the rest pre-Slavic Balkan), you actually need a population that's a bit more southern shifted than the Thracians to plot where modern Albanians do today.

The graph everyone is using, for some reason has omitted the Croatian Byzantine samples, based on the Albanian Kethete sample(800 AD Kukes), Illyrians had been heavily mixed with west Asian and become extremely southern shifted. If you look at how the Balkan Slavs plot and make a line of the pattern, it all points to a very southern shifted pre-Slavic population, very far from the original Illyrians. The fact that Albanians plot near ancient Illyrians seems just to be natures way of bringing things back into balance.

Everyone is focusing on direct relationships but I am noticing problems. Serbs, Croats and Bosnians should plot on the orange line if they mixed with Illyrians, but the Illyrians they mixed plotted them on the yellow line. So the Illyrians had drastically changed. Would be nice to visually see the Byzantine Croatian sample plotted in this graph.

 

[1337_]

Kukes sample fits the Komani time frame. Let's agree to disagree on the linguistic affiliation of Kruja-Komani. The other two are self explanatory.

I don't neccessarily think Albanian is native to Albania. We don't really know for sure. I don't really have a horse in this race.
There could be Thracian influence.

 

[mount123]

delete‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎

 

[epirus1000]

Kukes is very far for having the slightest slavic influence. It has some unique Albanian surnames.

 

[epirus1000]

Na bej nje permbledhje te shkurter te ketyre accounteve shqipfoles qe cojne uje tjeterkund, te lutem:

Te kemi nje ide se eshte shume e veshtire me ndjek fillin per nje user te ri...


PS: inbox message could do well also

 

[1337_]

Na bej nje permbledhje te shkurter te ketyre accounteve shqipfoles qe cojne uje tjeterkund, te lutem:
1. Cilet jane nga grupi i Hogdes
2. Cilet jane nga grupi pro-grek
3. Cilet jane nga grupi pro-serb

Te kemi nje ide se eshte shume e veshtire me ndjek fillin per nje user te ri...


PS: inbox message could do well also

Nuk eshte puna vetem aty por edhe plot prej tyne e kan nje agenda sikur per shembul per Y-DNA ose per prejardhjen e Shqiptareve. Cdo njeri e ka mendimin e vet dhe cdo teori eshte e mundshem until proven otherwise.

 

[epirus1000]

A kane qene ndonjehere ne Kukes keta qypa? A e kane pare nga afer profilin e nje kuksiani nga Shtiqni, Bicaj apo Kolshi?
Those people skulls are frozen in time. Bjonde, me sy blu dhe koken e madhe. Kuksianet origjinale jane the real deal.

 

[1337_]

Posts as these and the multiple anti social skills of yours manifested in insulting others and using those insults as arguments pretty much sums up all of your posts here.

It's the internet police everyone

 

[broder]

A kane qene ndonjehere ne Kukes keta qypa? A e kane pare nga afer profilin e nje kuksiani nga Shtiqni, Bicaj apo Kolshi?
Those people skulls are frozen in time. Bjonde, me sy blu dhe koken e madhe. Kuksianet origjinale jane the real deal.

Nje popull mesdhetar sic jemi ne shqiptaret ku ne pergjithesi dominon ngjyra kafe per nga floket dhe syte, duhet te i marrim disa bjonde Kuksian si dhe ‘real deal’. If anything, you’re strengthening his point lol

Who’s fake account are you that you couldn’t post such rubbish under your real profile?

 

[Hawk]

//doesn't matter, screw it lol.

 

[epirus1000]

Nje popull mesdhetar sic jemi ne shqiptaret ku ne pergjithesi dominon ngjyra kafe per nga floket dhe syte, duhet te i marrim disa bjonde Kuksian si dhe ‘real deal’. If anything, you’re strengthening his point lol

Who’s fake account are you that you couldn’t post such rubbish under your real profile?

Kush po strengthen his point? Pse cfare ishin ata qe erdhen para 5000 vitesh nga Ukraina? Te duket se ishin me ngjyre kafe dhe me floke te zinj. Shumica absolute ishin R1b dhe J2b, ku R1b ke gjysmen e Evropes Veriore, njeri me bjond se tjetri dhe me shumicen me sy blu. Me pas te gjithe ndikimet romake, osmane e te gjitha llojet e tjera te ndikimeve, plus vete ndikimin e klimes ne 5 mijevjecare i ka bere me te rralle bjondet dhe syte blu ne keto troje.
As kaq gje nuk arrini me kuptu...

 

[broder]

Kush po strengthen his point? Pse cfare ishin ata qe erdhen para 5000 vitesh nga Ukraina? Te duket se ishin me ngjyre kafe dhe me floke te zinj. Shumica absolute ishin R1b dhe J2b, ku R1b ke gjysmen e Evropes Veriore, njeri me bjond se tjetri dhe me shumicen me sy blu. Me pas te gjithe ndikimet romake, osmane e te gjitha llojet e tjera te ndikimeve, plus vete ndikimin e klimes ne 5 mijevjecare i ka bere me te rralle bjondet dhe syte blu ne keto troje.
As kaq gje nuk arrini me kuptu...

Po de, se ti ja u ke majt qirin atyne para 5000 vjeteve - kah i kane ra dajres.

 

[Hawk]

It looks like among Southern Illyrians we should expect to find R1b-Z2103 and J2a descended from Matt-Painted Pottery Culture, those 2 samples from Plaosnik Ohrid should reflect that. But, were they the original Enchelei, the burial described by Pasko Kuzman among Enchelei/Sessarethi looks alien to Matt-Painted Pottery Culture.

On this occasion, special attention is given to the Tomb of the Warriors (Tomb 1) in which 6 warriors were buried together with their complete military armor. The tomb (dimensions: 5.50 x 4.50 m) was built with a row of larger limestone blocks, and after the cremation burial it was filled with amorphous stones and earth, shaping a low mound-like structure. The pyre was set in the central part of the tomb, and around it, embedded and arranged in a specially brought lake sand, were the military attributes: 6 bronze helmets, 11 greaves, and 15 iron spears, with features suggesting some military subordination or simply warriors who have died in a battle being “the Leader and his comrades.”

https://pebasite.wordpress.com/peba-2020/representations-of-power-an-ancient-macedonian-elite/

I would like to get classical age samples to see whether the Balkan-Danubian influence on Devoll classiffied as Kanellure was real, and whether E-V13 shows up.

 

[1337_]

It looks like among Southern Illyrians we should expect to find R1b-Z2103 and J2a descended from Matt-Painted Pottery Culture, those 2 samples from Plaosnik Ohrid should reflect that. But, were they the original Enchelei, the burial described by Pasko Kuzman among Enchelei/Sessarethi looks alien to Matt-Painted Pottery Culture.



I would like to get classical age samples to see whether the Balkan-Danubian influence on Devoll classiffied as Kanellure was real, and whether E-V13 shows up.

What are the most common Albanian EV-13 clades and how do they add up with the Thracian samples found so far and others ? Just asking as I don't know much about EV-13.

 

[1337_]

To me it makes no sense that EV-13 experienced a bottle neck effect in West Balkans while in East where it seems to of been quite common. Maybe it's just a sample bias so far.

Also proto-Albanians might not of even developed from one single tribe (i.e Albanoi) . Most linguists just recognize the name was taken from there like Michiel De Vaan . This tribe could of also been present somewhere else in the Balkans during the Roman period rather than (only) in Albania.

Especially after Roman-Illyrian wars. It says their city was destroyed.

 

[1337_]

Michiel De Vaan supports Matzinger and claims it is not native to Albania, I once sent him an email and he argues Illyrian names in Albania developed different.

 

[1337_]

 

[Dibran]

Wtf is the "proper Albanian time frame"? The whole point is to show continuity from the Bronze Age to Iron Age to Antiquity to Medieval/Post-Medieval.

All these samples cluster close to modern Albanians.

He just said Kukes wasn't Albanian in the middle ages, basically. I think it's safe to ignore the clown.