Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[monster]

Some old Albanian settlements in some parts of Dardania/Kosova that still exist:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novak,_Prizren
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gjonaj,_Prizren
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caparc
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gjinoc
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shpenadi
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazrek,_Prizren
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujmir
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uqë
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junik
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kojushë
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dujakë
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zym
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pllanejë
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobrosh
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morinë_(Gjakova)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponoshec
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mejë
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voksh
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brekoc
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogovë
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vraniq,_Gjakova


I have been working to add a lot more.

 

[monster]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romajë
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarosh,_Rahovec
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujz,_Gjakova
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zojz,_Prizren


There was villages like Magjerci, Flokajt, Crnca etc which existed until late but they disappear after the 15th-16th century

 

[mount123]

New interview from Rrënjët admin where he mentions multiple times Albanians coming from Dardania/Moesia:

Çfarë thotë ADN-ja për shqiptarët? | PRESSING | T7

Çfarë thotë ADN-ja për shqiptarët? | PRESSING | T7

www.youtube.com

I have never heard Gjergj in these interviews name other Paleo-Balkan pops except for Illyrians. Mendoj që e përdor fjalën "Ilirë" në radhë të parë si sinonim për popujt paleo-ballkanikë.

Translating what I wrote above in Albanian: "I think he uses the word Illyrians first and foremost as a synonym for Paleo-Balkan pops"

@Riverman I haven't really paid attention to the part about Serbs living in (max 4% of total population) as it's not an interesting topic to me. With regards to Albanians this is what he says (Arbnorë, nëse keni diçka për të shtuar mos hezitoni ):

The moderator with the thick accent is E1b-V13 and Gjergj Bojaxhiu is trying to explain certain questions he asks him randomly while he is already explaining something. Basically, he says that Albanian lineages consist of 3 (kind of 4) big blocks:

1st block: Dardanians (mainly V13, Z2103>BY611, I think he mentions somewhere PF7562>PF7563>PF7566 and some L283 clades too) who migrated early during the collapse of the Roman empire to especially northern and western and after that backmigrated in the medieval era to former Dardanian territory (, Nish, Shkup, Tregishtë, Tregu i Ri etc.)

2nd block: Dardanians who stayed in Dardania who belong to uniparental clusters that did not partake in a migration towards northern and western

3rd block: Illyrians of Mati-Dibër (he especially mentions J2b-L283>PH4679 folks) with whom the 1st and 2nd Dardanian block merged later on

4th block: similar to 3rd block represented by non-Dardanian Paleo-Balkan clusters with whom the Dardanian blocks merged

And the end result being all of the 4 blocks merging together. I tried to summarize his words in a very simplistic way.

 

[mount123]

Translating what I wrote above in Albanian: "I think he uses the word Illyrians first and foremost as a synonym for Paleo-Balkan pops"

@Riverman I haven't really paid attention to the part about Serbs living in (max 4% of total population) as it's not an interesting topic to me. With regards to Albanians this is what he says (Arbnorë, nëse keni diçka për të shtuar mos hezitoni ):

The moderator with the thick accent is E1b-V13 and Gjergj Bojaxhiu is trying to explain certain questions he asks him randomly while he is already explaining something. Basically, he says that Albanian lineages consist of 3 (kind of 4) big blocks:

1st block: Dardanians (mainly V13, Z2103>BY611, I think he mentions somewhere PF7562>PF7563>PF7566 and some L283 clades too) who migrated early during the collapse of the Roman empire to especially northern and western and after that backmigrated in the medieval era to former Dardanian territory (, Nish, Shkup, Tregishtë, Tregu i Ri etc.)

2nd block: Dardanians who stayed in Dardania who belong to uniparental clusters that did not partake in a migration towards northern and western

3rd block: Illyrians of Mati-Dibër (he especially mentions J2b-L283>PH4679 folks) with whom the 1st and 2nd Dardanian block merged later on

4th block: similar to 3rd block represented by non-Dardanian Paleo-Balkan clusters with whom the Dardanian blocks merged

And the end result being all of the 4 blocks merging together. I tried to summarize his words in a very simplistic way.

I have just seen an interview with Alban Lauka on Albanian TV not sure which channel it was and can't seem to find it on YT when I search it again. During that interview he said pretty much similar stuff to what we've already heard from Gjergj Bojaxhiu. Interesting part, looks like there will be some publication on Gjergj Kastrioti's male paternal line in the near future.

 

[epirus1000]

I have just seen an interview with Alban Lauka on Albanian TV not sure which channel it was and can't seem to find it on YT when I search it again. During that interview he said pretty much similar stuff to what we've already heard from Gjergj Bojaxhiu. Interesting part, looks like there will be some publication on Gjergj Kastrioti's male paternal line in the near future.

Let see. All three main paternal lines are possible.

 

[hapiness15]

Other things I got right

R-Y14088 from Bezdanjaca
R-Y4355 from N.Croatia , same site as V13 sample


I noticed years ago multiple clusters of unrelated R-Y4355 around Balkans. One in Vlach Herzegovina clan I studied. Another in Bulgaria, another in Greece, and another in Romania. So I always maintained this clade was local and not Celtic. Now as I predicted it is Urnfield, and Illyrian related significantly. As predicted by me and some people from poreklo, Urnfield Illyrians had lots of R-L2. R-Y4355 is found in Herzegovina Vlach tribes of Ugarci and Zotovići, mentioned in 14th century. The latter have Albanian etymology, though I haven't seen this clade in Albania, there is one anonymous sample from Montenegro also belonging to it so they at least might have been based there in earlier times.


Also I-P78 from Bosnia. Not sure about its age, could be BA or Eneolithic even.


I-P78 today has multiple (mostly West) Balkan lineages, and one P78 was found in Daunians, though not sure it if was confirmed 100 %, I just found one mutation under P78 as +. It was always obvious that M223 under L701 is not Germanic related.

people with R-Y4353 and R-Y4354 is only descedeants of proto-italics and illyrians or they are a mix between celts R-L2 and italics R-Z49?

 

[PaleoRevenge]

A Macedonian man from probistib has created a parallel clade to one of three main branches of R-Z2705.

R-Y125049 YTree

www.yfull.com

Edit: This is not a parallel to all R-Z2705, only one of it's three main branches.

 

[Hawk]

Translating what I wrote above in Albanian: "I think he uses the word Illyrians first and foremost as a synonym for Paleo-Balkan pops"

@Riverman I haven't really paid attention to the part about Serbs living in (max 4% of total population) as it's not an interesting topic to me. With regards to Albanians this is what he says (Arbnorë, nëse keni diçka për të shtuar mos hezitoni ):

The moderator with the thick accent is E1b-V13 and Gjergj Bojaxhiu is trying to explain certain questions he asks him randomly while he is already explaining something. Basically, he says that Albanian lineages consist of 3 (kind of 4) big blocks:

1st block: Dardanians (mainly V13, Z2103>BY611, I think he mentions somewhere PF7562>PF7563>PF7566 and some L283 clades too) who migrated early during the collapse of the Roman empire to especially northern and western and after that backmigrated in the medieval era to former Dardanian territory (, Nish, Shkup, Tregishtë, Tregu i Ri etc.)

2nd block: Dardanians who stayed in Dardania who belong to uniparental clusters that did not partake in a migration towards northern and western

3rd block: Illyrians of Mati-Dibër (he especially mentions J2b-L283>PH4679 folks) with whom the 1st and 2nd Dardanian block merged later on

4th block: similar to 3rd block represented by non-Dardanian Paleo-Balkan clusters with whom the Dardanian blocks merged

And the end result being all of the 4 blocks merging together. I tried to summarize his words in a very simplistic way.

They have repeated several times about this, IDK, where they base, is it like they have information of some unpublished samples or it's their assumption. That makes the difference.

 

[mount123]

They have repeated several times about this, IDK, where they base, is it like they have information of some unpublished samples or it's their assumption. That makes the difference.

Looks like that's the case. If not entirely based on assumptions (doubtful) it would be great to have some additional BA-IA samples aswell as, crucial IMO, early medieval samples.

Statements such as PH4679+ being from an ancient Illyrian Mati-Dibër-Mirditë "cluster" are oddly specific. I kind of did expect it to have been the Illyrian patrilineage signal of Glasinac-Mati influence in Western Dardanians tbh, but looks like those inland folks might have been mostly Z1297 tribes (Z631, Y21878, Y23094) and possibly some minor PH1602 (one clade looks Proto-Albanian). I joked in the past about Northern Albanian (north of Mati-Dibër-Mirditë) J2b-L283 in BCE times possibly being all Z1297 and leaving no room for PH4679 lol

The rest (about alb E1b-V13, R1b-Z2103 and R1b-PF7562 clades) is also very plausible given the archaeological landscape of Dardania. As is always the case, we shall see what the data delivers.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Gjergj has said the Shala R-PF7563 is part of "Dardanian" cluster. I would not call it Dardanian especially when one looks at the branching(all parallel and upstream clades are in Bulgaria). What is interesting is that one upstream branch is a Albanian from Kosovo, which is why Gjergj says some Shala never even migrated to Albania but stayed there and were later joined by the Dukagjin Shala post 1600s.

R-Y83965 YTree

www.yfull.com

The rest of R-PF7563 are all natives to Albania. It is clear they have access to prelimenary EMA Albania samples(probably since three years ago). Gjergj says Hoti is Dardanian. I'm not familiar with distribution of L283 branches, gjergj is probably having senior moments.

The "Dardanian cluster" is not based on knowledge of unpublished samples. E-V13 in Dardania will not be the parental sub-clades to 400 AD Albanian population, rrenjet is hoping and coping the parental clades of R-Z2703 and Alb E-V13s, turn out to be Dardanian.

 

[Johane Derite]

Both the Illyrian and non-Illyrian camps agree on the phonetics of Nish and Shtip matching Proto-Albanian mediation into Slavic languages.I propose a new Nish-Shtip-Shtipon triangle based on the crucial yet overlooked oikonym "Shtipon", which matches Shtip's phonetics and therefore points to mediation into Bulgarian from a proto-Albanian speaking people.Shtipon is today Ihtiman in Bulgaria, near Sofia.

 

[broder]

He is just a parallel branch to Y32147 under Y125049.

There are six other branches parallel to Y125049 under BY38894 that are predominantly Albanian, besides BY199059. The other two parallel branches to BY38894 under Z2705 are BY147912 and YF121449 (apparently from Mirdite/Mat area). So, over all as far as Z2705 phylogeny is concerned, this sample is irrelevant. Most of these Macedonians/Bulgarians are just assimilated Albs, simply put.

 

[Johane Derite]

Linguist Oleg Trubachyov argued that in Western Ukraine there are certain regions that show a substrate of non-Slavic place names of Illyrian and Thracian origin. He based this on parallels he argued were found in their respective Balkan territories.He argued this suggested that these regions (the upper Dniestr as locus for the West Balkanic i.e. "Illyroid" and the middle Dnieper/Southern Bug/Teteriv as locus for the "Thracoid") were the earlier settlement zones for these IE language groups before their migrations into the Balkans.

In "Berezan" he saw a possible cognate to Albanian. bardhë [white] (from Proto-Indo-European *bʰerHǵ- (“to shine, whiten”)).

 

[Riverman]

The issue with the Thracoid zone on this map is that it was indeed related to Thracians, but rather secondarily, when Daco-Thracians came in, in the Late Bronze to Middle Iron Age.

 

[torzio]

Linguist Oleg Trubachyov argued that in Western Ukraine there are certain regions that show a substrate of non-Slavic place names of Illyrian and Thracian origin. He based this on parallels he argued were found in their respective Balkan territories.He argued this suggested that these regions (the upper Dniestr as locus for the West Balkanic i.e. "Illyroid" and the middle Dnieper/Southern Bug/Teteriv as locus for the "Thracoid") were the earlier settlement zones for these IE language groups before their migrations into the Balkans.

In "Berezan" he saw a possible cognate to Albanian. bardhë [white] (from Proto-Indo-European *bʰerHǵ- (“to shine, whiten”)).


View attachment 15314

View attachment 15315
View attachment 15316

This placement of origins is the norm for many decades ..........................attached to the Illyroid in the west is the Italic branch ( modern slovakia ) and attached to the Italic further west is the celtic branch (modern Czech )

 

[Johane Derite]

The issue with the Thracoid zone on this map is that it was indeed related to Thracians, but rather secondarily, when Daco-Thracians came in, in the Late Bronze to Middle Iron Age.

Are there archaeological signs of movement into this middle dnieper-southern bug region in this timeframe?

 

[Hawk]

Are there archaeological signs of movement into this middle dnieper-southern bug region in this timeframe?

Yes, both the Northern Proto-Thracian Gava-Holigrady and Southern Proto-Thracians Stamped-Ware penetrated deep in forest Steppe during LBA, but the spread wasn't as massive and impactful in relation to the South-Eastern route and eventually it was weakened by appearance of Steppe Iranic people.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

 

[Riverman]

Yes, both the Northern Proto-Thracian Gava-Holigrady and Southern Proto-Thracians Stamped-Ware penetrated deep in forest Steppe during LBA, but the spread wasn't as massive and impactful in relation to the South-Eastern route and eventually it was weakened by appearance of Steppe Iranic people.

But it looks like they survived up to the Germanic and Slavic migrations. Which means that the Slavs might have come into contact with some remaining groups from the Daco-Thracians which they assimilated. To me that's a much better explanation for Thracian or even Thraco-Illyrian place names, than a survival from the Eneolithic period, from the ancestral Pre-Thracians.

 

[Hawk]

But it looks like they survived up to the Germanic and Slavic migrations. Which means that the Slavs might have come into contact with some remaining groups from the Daco-Thracians which they assimilated. To me that's a much better explanation for Thracian or even Thraco-Illyrian place names, than a survival from the Eneolithic period, from the ancestral Pre-Thracians.

I don't think so, that was probably isolated members of Carpi tribe moving more North allying with Goths to attack the Romans as revenge for the Dacian Kingdom defeat.

But LBA Gava-Holigrady/Stamped-Ware, they were short-living in Ukraine, and very likely not even real population migration, rather some LBA/EIA plundering of the region. Their main base was Transylvania(Apuseni Mountains), Southern Carpathia Orastie Mountains, Haemus Mountains deep south to Rila Mountains.

I would put Orastie Mountains && Haemus Mountains as the main center of spread to both north and south.