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Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

You don't belong here(you should be banned). You are backwards. Extremely backwards. I posted a map of archeological sites. All you did was accuse a Serbian archeologists of plotting against Albania. And you accuse me of working for Serbs. I even asked you to explain yourself, what exactly has Aleksandrar Bulatovic written about Albanians. What is the plot here?

If you can't back up you accusations, you are backwards, you are unintelligent and you should be stopped from spamming further.
I'm just stating the fact that you keep promoting Serbian Academy thesis and scripts. You just keep confirming that. I will not use your methods of intimidation. I have no script to follow.
 
I'm just stating the fact that you keep promoting Serbian Academy thesis and scripts. You just keep confirming that. I will not use your methods of intimidation. I have no script to follow.

I'll ask again, what thesis is that, quote the archeologists in question, quote his work. What are your accusations?

So far your objection is that a Serbian archeologists works for a Serbian institution. This is incredibly stupid.
 
Here is Gottfried Schramms entire book about the early christianisation of proto-Albanians, where he makes his case for why proto-Albanian homeland being the west half of Dacia Mediterranea.

This is an Albanian translation, a bit clunky in some parts but useful nonetheless.

Especially interesting is how he explores the proto-albanian / proto-romanian symbiosis and what this actually would have entailed in daily life.


 
How does this fit the argument if proper Thracian is not ancestor of proto-Albanian? Were bessi a different people than southern Thracians or perhaps since Thracoid people were referred as bessi this might have meant a different group of Daco-Thracian came to be called as that? I also saw that in wikipedia it says that this theory cannot be supported since there is no archeological movement of such people even though we know proto-Albanians were a small group expanding and obviously they wouldn't
leave that big of a mark would they?


Hard to say for now. This is the region that Schramm argued for, and the "Bessi" from this region in the 4th century that were converted by Nicetas.

As for wikipedia, I would be wary as it is vandalized by Bruzmi/Corrigendum and co.

On there it brings up the "hellenic influence" of the Bessi, but the Bessi region in red was under Latin influence, not Greek, so that argument is dead on arrival.

Schramm laid that out himself 30 years ago:

Grok translated:

From an administrative standpoint, this area belonged to Dacia Mediterranea, which was newly established after the abandonment of Dacia and now included, in its western part, the cities of Viminacium (at the confluence of the Morava and the Danube), Naissus (Niš), and Remesiana (Bela Palanka), both of the latter located on the banks of the Nišava River. The eastern part, which today belongs to Bulgaria, included the cities of Serdica (Sofia) and Pautalia (Kyustendil).

The region we are dealing with needs to be further defined. The proto-Albanians most likely inhabited the mountains to the west of the highest peak of the mountain range, which marks the watershed between the Mediterranean and the Pontic (Black Sea) regions.

In the administrative geography of the Roman Empire, the oldest homeland of the Albanians was situated in the western half of the inland Dacia created by Aurelian, where Latin was the language of administration. To the east of the mountain slopes, relationships prevailed that did not correspond to the language of the proto-Albanians.

Around the year 275, the official language here was Greek. Pautalia, and to a greater extent Serdica, should be considered cities where Thracian was perhaps not spoken to a significant degree; the local civilization, however, bore pronounced Greek characteristics. A significant part of the growth and flourishing of Serdica occurred during a period that also saw the Gothic attacks of the 250s in the 3rd century, when Greek dominated as the language of culture here. The majority of inscriptions began to be written in Latin only in the 5th and 6th centuries. An idiom spoken near Serdica, it seems to me, would have been more heavily influenced by ancient Greek loanwords. And this applies as well and also for the broader periphery of Pautalia.

Our later treatment of the ecclesiastical terminology of Albanian will substantiate these conclusions. That the eastern part of the central group of the mountain range is less suitable for being localized as the homeland of proto-Albanian than the western part will be proven, to be fair, for the southern part of this group through another argument."

1744058515867.png
 
Hard to say for now. This is the region that Schramm argued for, and the "Bessi" from this region in the 4th century that were converted by Nicetas.

As for wikipedia, I would be wary as it is vandalized by Bruzmi/Corrigendum and co.

On there it brings up the "hellenic influence" of the Bessi, but the Bessi region in red was under Latin influence, not Greek, so that argument is dead on arrival.

Schramm laid that out himself 30 years ago:



View attachment 18143

Some important points from Schramm on concrete implications about the Proto-Romanian / Proto-Albanian symbiosis.

- Proto-Romanians rented lands owned by Proto-Albanians and learnt transhumance shepherding from them
- The Proto-Albanians and Proto-Romanians spent winter months in close proximity
- Proto-Albanian and Proto-Romanian Christian lexicon points to shared family church services, but separate liturgical services, possibly in same church buildings
- Bilingualism was common, at least among the men
- Proto-Albanians and Proto-Romanians intermarried and chose godparents from each others communities



"By the mid-7th century at the latest, all hopes that the Empire would expel the invading Slavs had vanished. Most of the population from the Romance-speaking region south of the northern border along the Sava and lower Danube must have fled to wherever safety could be expected: to northern Italy, the Adriatic and its islands, the Macedonian-Thessalian urban belt, and Constantinople. Some refugees escaped to the mountains, where, above the valleys occupied by farmers, there were still pastures suitable for sustaining life. The economic system based on raising sheep herds was entirely unfamiliar to the Romance people arriving from the plains. However, necessity drove them to learn from the locals how to manage small livestock herds, led by professional shepherds, grazing in high-altitude summer villages during the summer months, and then, when it became cold and barren up there, guiding them down to the valleys with their lush winter pastures. To this older form of transhumance, a migratory pastoral economy long established in Southeast Europe, the pastoral Romance people, driven by necessity, added mountain nomadism, characterized by entire clans migrating with the herds.

The pastoral Romance populations likely alternated between transhumance and nomadism depending on circumstances. However, mountain nomadism remained an ethnic peculiarity of the Romance peoples into modern times, otherwise characterizing only a small Greek-speaking Sarakatsani community and part of the Northeast Albanians. Alongside the unique phenomenon that a single Balkan barbarian people, the Bessi or Proto-Albanians, preserved their Christian religion and language, there exists a second unique phenomenon in roughly the same formative space: a Romance block managed to survive within the peninsula, discovering a new economic system and maintaining it as an ethnic characteristic for centuries.

Why did two extraordinary singularities occur in a single place, namely the central Balkans? Initially, I explained this through purely geographical circumstances. The central mountain range rises higher than all other parts of the subcontinent, creating a fan of high-altitude pasture zones that are unmatched in extent anywhere else on the peninsula. These conditions provided centuries-long dual protection from Slavic invaders. The ruggedness and lack of paths in this mountainous landscape acted as a natural barrier against unwanted intruders. Moreover, the utility of the pastures initially held little appeal for the Slavic conquerors, who were primarily accustomed to living off agriculture. This explanation seems to address a significant part of the problem. However, as I would now consider, this assumption requires supplementation. Do not other mountainous regions in Southeast Europe largely share the same characteristics attributed to the central mountain range and responsible for the unique phenomena that occurred there? Were the natural spatial conditions in the Pindus, the Shar Mountains above Skopje, and the Northern Albanian Alps not very similar? Were these mountain groups—also at high altitudes—not equally suitable for preserving indigenous languages and simultaneously fostering and further developing transhumant pastoralism? Were they not equally inaccessible and just as unattractive to the incoming Slavs?

The gap in this argumentation closes if we incorporate religious circumstances into our considerations. In the central mountain range—as we now know—the Bessi were so thoroughly converted by the Great Missionary (Nicetas) and his like-minded successors that the Christian faith did not, for instance, quickly wane during the 7th-century catastrophe, nor did it ultimately disappear. On the contrary, village churches and perhaps even monasteries high in the mountains retained their crucial role as bulwarks of the church, while in lower regions, the old episcopal organization became powerless or perhaps collapsed entirely. There is no basis to assume that Christianity proved equally resilient elsewhere in the interior of Southeast Europe. A very particular constellation of circumstances was necessary to make this singularity possible. Before the start of our history, it seemed that natural conditions would hinder the work of conversion, if not initially render it impossible. Later, however, when the Bessi—contrary to expectations—had become Christians early on, the terrain’s inaccessibility served as a protective barrier, safeguarding their new religion from the peninsula’s new rulers. Moreover, geographical conditions also helped preserve the linguistic identity of the Bessi people.

The Christianity of the Bessi, now deeply rooted, also provided protection for others. In their vicinity, and likely with their assistance, Romance populations fleeing from the north, adhering to the same faith, found a unique opportunity to carve out a new existential niche after being displaced from their ancestral lowland environment. Nowhere else in Southeast Europe—except the eastern Adriatic coast, its islands, and the cities of the Macedonian belt—would there have been such favorable conditions for receiving the incoming Romance people.

Of course, one should not romanticize the past, especially its times of hardship. Who would seriously assume that Christian peoples, forced to coexist in the same inhospitable space, found unblemished harmony through shared faith? However, religious alignment likely facilitated the development of a symbiosis, where the Proto-Romanians rented winter pastures in valleys owned by the Bessi. Once established, this symbiosis proved mutually beneficial.

This refined hypothesis not only fully explains why only in the Central Mountain Group an ancient Balkan people and a remnant of Christianity survived. It also clarifies how a pastoral Romania could take shape. Finally, it addresses a question that has apparently never been posed before. Philological analyses have repeatedly confirmed that the languages of the Proto-Albanians and Proto-Romanians were connected by remarkably close interactions over a long period. It is difficult to identify even a single other case among known ethnic neighbors where two idioms interpenetrated so intensely. How, then, could this occur without one language displacing the other?

The compelling answer seems to be: the Romance peoples held their services in Latin, while the Bessi (or Proto-Albanians) used Bessian. Two distinct liturgical languages ensured that the two peoples did not merge into a single linguistic community, despite sharing the same faith and perhaps often the same church, but attending different services.

Linguistic evidence allows us to refine this picture further. Both languages show striking parallels in terms related to ritually established kinship ties: “wedding,” “to get engaged or married” derive from Latin corona, coronare; “father-in-law” and “mother-in-law” (consocer, consocera), and “witness, godparent” (with their female counterparts) from compatre and commatre. In the context of baptism, related to the latter term, both languages use derivatives of famulu (“baptized child”) and filianu (“godson”).

These correspondences suggest that during family celebrations, Bessi and Vlachs also gathered together in worship. Thus, the ethnic separation of services applied only to the norm, with regulated exceptions. The weight of the regular, weekly winter services ensured that neither ethnic identity was lost despite their close and often harmonious symbiosis. Bilingualism was likely common, at least among men, in a setting where two peoples spent the winter months in close proximity, and the difference in liturgical language was not perceived as a social barrier. It was probably common to choose a godparent or even a spouse from the other people. A Latin word for a relative, noverca ("stepmother"), was preserved only in Romanian and (as a loanword) in Albanian (njerkë)."

The Beginnings of Albanian Christianity
The Early Conversion of the Bessi and Its Long-Term Consequences
Gottfried Schramm
 
Really intresing, also the Proto-Albanian Urheimat proposed by Schramm matches with the Nish - Shtip zone, where Proto-Albanian might have been spoken.
 
Interestingly, the village "Gela" in the Rhodopes, is proposed by linguist Radu Craciun to be related to Albanian. Gjellë (food, life) / gjëllij (to live, to reside)

This was loaned into Aromanian as ghelã

Also related to the above is Albanian. Gjëllime (Remnants of dry grass scattered here and there in meadows after the hay has been gathered; grapes left on the vines after the vineyard has been harvested, stray fruit remaining on trees, etc., collected by gleaning.)

An interesting Albanoid toponym that is made especially interesting given the fact that this is the site where an old church from the 5th century was found that is associated with the Christianisation of the Bessi of this region, possibly eastern cousins of the proto-Albanians?
 
Do you know any archeological culture/site that is associated with Bessi?
 
Do you know any archeological culture/site that is associated with Bessi?
Some important points from Schramm on concrete implications about the Proto-Romanian / Proto-Albanian symbiosis.

- Proto-Romanians rented lands owned by Proto-Albanians and learnt transhumance shepherding from them
- The Proto-Albanians and Proto-Romanians spent winter months in close proximity
- Proto-Albanian and Proto-Romanian Christian lexicon points to shared family church services, but separate liturgical services, possibly in same church buildings
- Bilingualism was common, at least among the men
- Proto-Albanians and Proto-Romanians intermarried and chose godparents from each others communities



"By the mid-7th century at the latest, all hopes that the Empire would expel the invading Slavs had vanished. Most of the population from the Romance-speaking region south of the northern border along the Sava and lower Danube must have fled to wherever safety could be expected: to northern Italy, the Adriatic and its islands, the Macedonian-Thessalian urban belt, and Constantinople. Some refugees escaped to the mountains, where, above the valleys occupied by farmers, there were still pastures suitable for sustaining life. The economic system based on raising sheep herds was entirely unfamiliar to the Romance people arriving from the plains. However, necessity drove them to learn from the locals how to manage small livestock herds, led by professional shepherds, grazing in high-altitude summer villages during the summer months, and then, when it became cold and barren up there, guiding them down to the valleys with their lush winter pastures. To this older form of transhumance, a migratory pastoral economy long established in Southeast Europe, the pastoral Romance people, driven by necessity, added mountain nomadism, characterized by entire clans migrating with the herds.

The pastoral Romance populations likely alternated between transhumance and nomadism depending on circumstances. However, mountain nomadism remained an ethnic peculiarity of the Romance peoples into modern times, otherwise characterizing only a small Greek-speaking Sarakatsani community and part of the Northeast Albanians. Alongside the unique phenomenon that a single Balkan barbarian people, the Bessi or Proto-Albanians, preserved their Christian religion and language, there exists a second unique phenomenon in roughly the same formative space: a Romance block managed to survive within the peninsula, discovering a new economic system and maintaining it as an ethnic characteristic for centuries.

Why did two extraordinary singularities occur in a single place, namely the central Balkans? Initially, I explained this through purely geographical circumstances. The central mountain range rises higher than all other parts of the subcontinent, creating a fan of high-altitude pasture zones that are unmatched in extent anywhere else on the peninsula. These conditions provided centuries-long dual protection from Slavic invaders. The ruggedness and lack of paths in this mountainous landscape acted as a natural barrier against unwanted intruders. Moreover, the utility of the pastures initially held little appeal for the Slavic conquerors, who were primarily accustomed to living off agriculture. This explanation seems to address a significant part of the problem. However, as I would now consider, this assumption requires supplementation. Do not other mountainous regions in Southeast Europe largely share the same characteristics attributed to the central mountain range and responsible for the unique phenomena that occurred there? Were the natural spatial conditions in the Pindus, the Shar Mountains above Skopje, and the Northern Albanian Alps not very similar? Were these mountain groups—also at high altitudes—not equally suitable for preserving indigenous languages and simultaneously fostering and further developing transhumant pastoralism? Were they not equally inaccessible and just as unattractive to the incoming Slavs?

The gap in this argumentation closes if we incorporate religious circumstances into our considerations. In the central mountain range—as we now know—the Bessi were so thoroughly converted by the Great Missionary (Nicetas) and his like-minded successors that the Christian faith did not, for instance, quickly wane during the 7th-century catastrophe, nor did it ultimately disappear. On the contrary, village churches and perhaps even monasteries high in the mountains retained their crucial role as bulwarks of the church, while in lower regions, the old episcopal organization became powerless or perhaps collapsed entirely. There is no basis to assume that Christianity proved equally resilient elsewhere in the interior of Southeast Europe. A very particular constellation of circumstances was necessary to make this singularity possible. Before the start of our history, it seemed that natural conditions would hinder the work of conversion, if not initially render it impossible. Later, however, when the Bessi—contrary to expectations—had become Christians early on, the terrain’s inaccessibility served as a protective barrier, safeguarding their new religion from the peninsula’s new rulers. Moreover, geographical conditions also helped preserve the linguistic identity of the Bessi people.

The Christianity of the Bessi, now deeply rooted, also provided protection for others. In their vicinity, and likely with their assistance, Romance populations fleeing from the north, adhering to the same faith, found a unique opportunity to carve out a new existential niche after being displaced from their ancestral lowland environment. Nowhere else in Southeast Europe—except the eastern Adriatic coast, its islands, and the cities of the Macedonian belt—would there have been such favorable conditions for receiving the incoming Romance people.

Of course, one should not romanticize the past, especially its times of hardship. Who would seriously assume that Christian peoples, forced to coexist in the same inhospitable space, found unblemished harmony through shared faith? However, religious alignment likely facilitated the development of a symbiosis, where the Proto-Romanians rented winter pastures in valleys owned by the Bessi. Once established, this symbiosis proved mutually beneficial.

This refined hypothesis not only fully explains why only in the Central Mountain Group an ancient Balkan people and a remnant of Christianity survived. It also clarifies how a pastoral Romania could take shape. Finally, it addresses a question that has apparently never been posed before. Philological analyses have repeatedly confirmed that the languages of the Proto-Albanians and Proto-Romanians were connected by remarkably close interactions over a long period. It is difficult to identify even a single other case among known ethnic neighbors where two idioms interpenetrated so intensely. How, then, could this occur without one language displacing the other?

The compelling answer seems to be: the Romance peoples held their services in Latin, while the Bessi (or Proto-Albanians) used Bessian. Two distinct liturgical languages ensured that the two peoples did not merge into a single linguistic community, despite sharing the same faith and perhaps often the same church, but attending different services.

Linguistic evidence allows us to refine this picture further. Both languages show striking parallels in terms related to ritually established kinship ties: “wedding,” “to get engaged or married” derive from Latin corona, coronare; “father-in-law” and “mother-in-law” (consocer, consocera), and “witness, godparent” (with their female counterparts) from compatre and commatre. In the context of baptism, related to the latter term, both languages use derivatives of famulu (“baptized child”) and filianu (“godson”).

These correspondences suggest that during family celebrations, Bessi and Vlachs also gathered together in worship. Thus, the ethnic separation of services applied only to the norm, with regulated exceptions. The weight of the regular, weekly winter services ensured that neither ethnic identity was lost despite their close and often harmonious symbiosis. Bilingualism was likely common, at least among men, in a setting where two peoples spent the winter months in close proximity, and the difference in liturgical language was not perceived as a social barrier. It was probably common to choose a godparent or even a spouse from the other people. A Latin word for a relative, noverca ("stepmother"), was preserved only in Romanian and (as a loanword) in Albanian (njerkë)."

The Beginnings of Albanian Christianity
The Early Conversion of the Bessi and Its Long-Term Consequences
Gottfried Schramm

Another interesting new Albanoid toponym argued for by Radu Craciun also in the territory of the Bessi again is "Tsepina", an old town and castle in the western Rhodope mountains.

Here the linguist Radu compares it to the Albanian word "thep" (peak, point) which fits perfectly semantically given that Tsepina was situated on the peak.

We can see a similar ts > th in Albanian words such as thikë from tsika, and so on.

This is further damning evidence in favour of an Albanoid population in these regions. More proto-Albanian cousins in Bessi regions?
 
Interesting argumentation from a new paper from 2022 by linguist Radu Craciun that puts Thracian back on the menu for being Albanoid, and Albanian being descended from a Thracian or Thracoid language:

"Two toponyms often mentioned in this context are Naissus (Niš) and Astibos (Shtip), both geographically located in the Thracian-Illyrian contact zone, an area dominated by the Thracian element. Noteworthy is the transition from Astibos to Shtip, which exhibits three phonetic changes typical of Albanian:

the loss of the unstressed initial a-,
the shift of the consonant cluster -st- to -sht-,
and the devoicing of the labial b to p.

It must be emphasized here that the transition from b to p is also reflected in the Thracian terms of the Paeonian and Western Thracian regions, as in the case of the anthroponym Parisades from Berisades and in the case of the plant name in the Bessi language mentioned as dinupula (sinupula), compared to the Dacian variant kinuboila – "stërkungull" (pumpkin) in Albanian.

This Bessi gloss seems to have escaped Matzinger, who states:

“What complicates the connection between Albanian and Bessi is the fact that: (a) ‘Thracian’ is attested only to a small extent and Bessi in particular is entirely unknown, and especially (b) the individual phonetic evolution of Albanian and Thracian presents distinct reflexes, which cannot be considered the result of a single language!”

The difference between the Bessi (Thracian) and Dacian dialectal variants, both originating from IE *k̑un-abolo- “dog-apple,” proves that there can be considerable deviations in the transcription of glosses. Thus, the Dacian variant, transcribed with the velar (guttural) initial k-, followed by a front vowel, must have actually had a palatal (palatalized) pronunciation, close to an affricate consonant (*ts / *tz), as indicated by the Bessi variants, transcribed alternatively as d- or s-.

This “reverse” transcription, contrary to the expected evolution of a satem-type language, has also been noted by Georgiev, who observes that the Dacian toponym Germisera is also transcribed in the variant Germigera, indicating that a Latin consonant g, followed by the vowels e or i, is actually pronounced as (d)z or (d)zh.

The later variant, Zermizerga, attests to the specific phonetic evolution of the Albanian language, with the transitions *gʷhe- > *dze- > zja- and s- > z- > gj-. Georgiev’s observations relativize the value of the argument presented by Matzinger, who, based on the Thracian gloss genton “piece of meat,” from IE *gʷhend- “strike, kill,” and the toponyms Germania, Germi-sara, from IE *gʷhermo- “warm,” rules out the origin of Albanian from Thracian languages.

The Bessi gloss, written alternately as dinupula and sinupula, with d- and s- for *ts-, as well as the variants of the toponym Dierna, Tierna, Zerna, for the correct variant Tsierna, indicate that in Central Balkans, the affricates *ts- and *dz- were often transcribed using dentals (dental consonants) d-, t-, or, more rarely, th-.

Thus, Matzinger’s argument against the etymology for the name of the Dardania region falls, as for the palatal *g̑h-, etymologically justified, he would have expected a transcription with sibilants (fricatives) z or s.

Furthermore, the transcription with dentals of palatals, accompanied in most cases by variants with sibilants, constitutes an important indicator, a marker, for the presence of Albanian speakers!
"

Radu Craciun
2022
 
In Nikadin Ferizaj (Eastern Kosove) Early Christian times a sarcophagus lid was found with a man wearing Thraco-Phrygian hat.

nikadin_thraco_phrygian_man.jpg


One wonders if these were the helmet/hats wore by Dardanians themselves considering Monunious helmet was of Thraco-Phrygian shape as well.

king_monunious.jpg


Also the inscription mentioning Albanopolis

"POSIS MESTYLU F[ILIUS] FL[AVIA] DELVS MVCATI F[ILIA] DOM[O] ALBANOP[OLI] IPSA DELVS". It is translated as "Posis Mestylu, son of Flavia, daughter of Delus Mucati, who comes from Albanopolis".

Mucati or the basis muca/mouka is a stereotypical Daco-Mysian/Thracian personal name. Getians, Mysians, Dacians used this as Mucala, Mucatra, Mucapor, Mucatralis etc, etc, etc. Mucapor. Once you strip away the later Roman/Dardanian layer, the Muc‑ root lives squarely in the Daco‑Thracian onomastic world. Excluding Dardania and the Imperial period, the earliest attestations of Muc names come from the Geto‑Dacian/Mysian sphere near Haemus range. But even if attested among Dardanians it is a shared word with Daco-Mysians/Getians.
 
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"The Bessi and Vlachs were at this time the easternmost members of Western, Latin Christianity. However, in the 7th century, ties with Byzantium became even more significant. A peripheral region of that Western world, where Latin culture held sway, transformed into a peripheral zone of Eastern Christianity. This shift must have left its marks.

To test the validity of our reasoning, we must again rely on the evidence of borrowed words. Their reservoir, which always provides important clues, does not make the analysis easier this time. This is because the Greek words, which we need as evidence of Byzantine influences in this branch of Christianity in the interior of the Balkan Peninsula, entered Albanian at very different times. We already know that the massive influx of Latin words was preceded by an earlier influx from Greek. This layer would have been adopted by Proto-Albanian before the Romans, around the birth of Christ, established their rule in central Southeastern Europe. The second wave, which we will now focus on, was quickly followed by a third wave that swept over those Bessi who made present-day northern Albania their new homeland. It is self-evident that our material provides strong evidence only in fortunate cases when a single word belongs to all three layers. However, the difficulty here is somewhat alleviated if we consider that Albanian borrowings from Ancient Greek before Roman times, as seen earlier, are limited to two areas of civilization: the expansion of the list of foods and the refinement of types of weapons and tools. It is almost unthinkable that Greek influences in these two spheres of material culture continued during these turbulent times, which were followed by the Slavic incursion at the end of the 6th century and the beginning of the 7th. It is a fact that there are no borrowed words that contradict these considerations. And, in the ecclesiastical terminology of Albanians, as we have seen, there are few ancient borrowings from Greek that developed through multiple irregular sound changes.

From these considerations, it follows that the issue at hand poses serious difficulties only if we seek to determine which words entered Albanian among its predecessor speakers in the 7th to 9th centuries and which after their migration. Consequently, this task—and the reader should keep this in mind—can only be resolved very superficially. It remains to be hoped that continued discussion will make the picture more acceptable and detailed.

An important aid for our path forward comes from the now well-known fact that during the period we are discussing, Proto-Albanians and Proto-Romanians lived in close symbiosis. Among the shared characteristics of these two peoples of the foothill regions—if what we have said so far holds—is the circumstance that both depended on the support of the Byzantine Empire and its church. This can be turned into a working hypothesis: two languages that, regarding borrowed layers before the 7th century and after the 9th, show no noteworthy correspondences, would have, during the period of Bessi-Vlach symbiosis, frequently borrowed the same words from Byzantine Greek because the cultural conditions for borrowing were similar for both peoples at that time. Thus, we now have a sieve in hand, and with its help, we can sift out the first set of almost certain borrowings from the 7th to 9th centuries.

Some borrowings, which we attribute to that period, are closely tied to the civilization of that border zone where the Bessi and Vlachs encountered Byzantine conditions. Military service was key to this encounter, which, due to the Slavic incursion, must have involved many young Bessi (and Romanized pastoralists). At the beginning of the 6th century, in the army of Emperor Anastasius, alongside Scythians and Goths, there were also Bessi troops. Two Bessi, as recorded on a papyrus, performed their service in an Egyptian garrison in 561. The military involvement of this Christian people likely continued after the catastrophe of the 6th century. One must imagine a mercenary from this people rising through the ranks, perhaps a descendant who, in 8th-century Byzantium, made a career.

Another force, without which the empire could not defend itself, was road construction. It is no surprise, therefore, that the standard Greek term for “road,” dromos, entered Albanian as drom, alongside the later variant dhrom, which adapted to the newer Greek pronunciation. In Romanian, this appears as drum, based on the Old Bulgarian drum. For the protection of roads and defense against external enemies, mountain passes played a decisive role. Their Latin name, clausura, was replaced in Greek with klisura, which in Albanian became këshyra and in Aromanian clisura.

An important word in military life, Latin tenta (“tent, shelter”), appears with the same meaning in Albanian as tendë (Gheg tandë, in Shkodër tan), while in Romanian, tinda shifted to mean “entrance, vestibule.” It is clear that this word, from Greek tenda, must have entered at least Romanian, as the shift from -nt- to -nd- occurred only in Greek, while Latin -nt- was preserved in Romanian: intendere < întinde (“stretch, extend”), cantare < cînta (“sing”). In Albanian, where all tenues following nasals soften into mediae, this does not necessarily indicate a borrowing from Greek. Determining the source language is more difficult here due to the fact that early Romance, besides tenta—attested in Italian and Spanish—also used tenda < tendita (pellis).

Through men serving in the Byzantine Empire, Albanian likely adopted traista, trajstë, strajcë, and Aromanian tastru, tastir, trastu, tratu (“saddlebag for horse gear”) from a ta(g)istron, traston, attested since the 10th century.

The same applies to Albanian flamur, Aromanian flambura, Romanian flamura (“flag”), a word that can only be derived from Latin flammula through Greek phlammouron, attested since the 6th century.

The most significant part of this group of words, worthy of consideration, which pertains to the military-characterized civilization of Byzantium’s border territories, is the Albanian word fshat, alongside its variant pshat. Its Romanian counterpart is sat. Gustav Meyer saw the divergent forms fsh- and psh- as stemming from a common Latin root massatum, meaning “complex of lands, estate.” Modern scholarship prefers the alternative that this word derives from Latin fossatum. It seems to me that this word entered Albanian through Greek phossaton. This is a well-known Greek-Byzantine term for “military camp,associated with fortification through a ditch before a rampart. This word lives on, for example, in the name Al-Fustat, still used today for the center of old Cairo. If Albanian fshat truly derives from phossaton, this moment would open important perspectives regarding the relations of the central Balkan mountains, which we should take into account. There is no doubt that Albanians had their own native word for the type of village inhabited year-round by a settled population primarily engaged in agriculture. The same naturally applies to Romance, which undoubtedly had a Latin word for “farmers’ village,” likely a derivative of villa. If the Bessi and Vlachs replaced their term for village with one that actually means “military camp,” this sheds light on harsh times when, in lowland areas, one could only feel secure in settlements surrounded by ramparts and ditches.

It is clear, furthermore, that we cannot assume Proto-Albanians and Proto-Romanians both borrowed this word simultaneously from the Greeks. Romanian sat can only be derived from Greek phossátum through Proto-Albanian fsat. Aromanian fusat, fusatea (“ditch”) shows that an unstressed Greek o would have needed to be preserved. This finding clarifies that the Bessi inhabited lower regions than the Proto-Romanians, who found their ecological niche much higher up. This resulted in Proto-Albanians—viewed solely from the perspective of military service—cultivating more direct and intensive relations with the Byzantines than the Proto-Romanians, thus passing on some cultural values to the Proto-Romanians, who lived a level higher, without direct access to the road.

Çabej rightly judged that even Albanian kurt and Romanian curte (“courtyard”), through a Greek intermediary kurti, derive from Latin curte. Both the meaning and the connection between Albanian and Romanian would fit very well with the “second wave.” However, this case is not certain.

How do the fields of religion and folk beliefs help us here? Gheg konë, Tosk korë (“painting, church icon”) have their roots in Greek ikóna. That this word was borrowed in the centuries we are dealing with is not yet firmly supported by Romanian icoana, as this word could have come from Greek but through the intermediary of Church Slavonic. A reliable point of support for this is the fact that in konë < ikónë, an unstressed initial vowel is devoiced. This regular change in Albanian would have occurred when the Slavs, perhaps before 800 CE, fixed the name of the city on the banks of the Bregalnica, known in antiquity as Astibos, as a borrowing Štip. Supporting the same indication are fli, flij, which stem from Greek evlogía. We will examine this word further below.

The third word in our series, dreq, provides yet another correspondence in Romanian, confirming it was borrowed during the time of the Albanian-Romance-pastoral symbiosis. Romanians use drac as their familiar term for “devil,” while in Albanian, the pluralized singular dreq competes with djall. The singular drak, on the other hand, has taken on the meaning “block of stone.” We will address the Albanian dreq in singular later. Proto-Albanians and Proto-Romanians adopted the Greek word drákos, explained as a later variant of drákon (“dragon”). As a worm-like monster, people imagined the devil, and this was also marked in Old High German as draccho, while modern Provençal retained drac for “devil, sprite, goblin.”

The new borrowing dreq, I would believe, did not enrich the ecclesiastical language of the Bessi, in which “devils” continued to be referred to with a phonetically evolved word from Latin daemones. Our third word represents an innovation that was preserved in Albanian folk expressions.

What can we make of this frail prey? With the icon, we find a piece of ecclesiastical culture that holds essential significance for the services of the Eastern Church. If someone—say, a wandering monk or a discharged mercenary—returned from the Byzantine Empire to their Bessi homeland, they would have been expected, at the very least, to bring an icon with them. Among the large number of Byzantine monks who, during the years 726–787 in the first phase of triumphant iconoclasm, greatly valued the veneration of painted images and sought protection in outer regions due to persecution, it is possible that some found their way to the Bessi mountains. It was neither these monks nor the cunning vendors selling drawings, which were banned even in Byzantium itself, who spread the icons, as by the 8th century, the word korë had already taken root.

The Albanian word fli is found with two meanings: 1. sacrifice and 2. a three-day dish prepared in a special sauce. This duality has its roots in ecclesiastical Greek, in evlogía: 1. sacrifice in the specific sense of the offering for the Mass, but also in a general sense, and 2. it denoted a sacrifice consisting of bread or other contents, blessed during a festive service. This borrowing likely stems from the profound impression of the Byzantine service and its celebratory culture. However, without other borrowings from this context, we should be cautious with speculations.

If we attempt, after reviewing the situation, to reconstruct which words from the 7th to 9th centuries found their way from the Greeks to the Bessi, a completely different picture emerges for spiritual life compared to secular civilization. While contact with the Byzantine border regions and their strong military character clearly took root in important borrowed words, borrowings in the ecclesiastical sphere are noticeably rarer. Indeed, they appear—starting with a word for “icon”—directed somewhat blindly, without apparent logic. This does not mean in any way that the connection between Bessi Christianity and Greek Christianity during these centuries was weak or perhaps even insignificant. Rather, we are dealing with the circumstance that the Bessi, with considerable self-satisfaction, continued to cultivate their own distinct church according to their own standards: safeguarded in their language, intertwined with the customs of a pastoral people, and especially sustained by local monasteries, where the continuation of a rich spiritual and cultural heritage was in good hands. No strong influence from the far more solemn and cultivated Byzantine Church during the 7th to 9th centuries stands out. "

The Beginnings of Albanian Christianity

The Early Conversion of the Bessi and Its Long-Term Consequences
Gottfried Schramm
 
"I have the impression that for such transitions in the southern dialect of Albanian, there is a lack of any support.

On the contrary: let us take the name Bistrica in southern Albania, a tributary of the Shkumbin, which with its /i/ in the first syllable, representing the Slavic /y/, indicates a later transition than that of the Slavic u > y shift that occurred in the 9th century.

The form Bushtrica of the name, found in the north as the name of two different streams, shows that the Albanians there made this transformation before the time of the Slavic alternation mentioned above. The same picture emerges for the name Osum of the river, which in Middle Greek was called Ason, Asumis.

Albanians likely became familiar with this river no earlier than the 9th century, precisely when the Slavic /a/ had taken on the coloring of /o/."


"Taken as a whole, the toponyms used as evidence for autochthony do not precisely provide what has often been believed they offer. A study by Lafe claims that in Albania, there is a series of Latin-derived place names that have developed so faithfully in accordance with the phonetic laws of Albanian that they should be considered evidence in favor of autochthony.

In reality, Frakull, Vrakull < Oraculum; do not correspond to blatë < oblata (“sacrificial livestock, crumb”);

Kashnjet < Castanetum does not align with kështenjë; Kashtel < Castellum does not match kështjellë;

Valbonë (“good valley”) does not correspond to Ndue < “Antonius”, and so forth."


The Beginnings of Albanian Christianity
The Early Conversion of the Bessi and Its Long-Term Consequences
Gottfried Schramm
 
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An interesting theory from Radu Craciun concerning the Dacian prophet Zalmoxis:

He argues that "zalmos," a Thracian gloss meaning "‘animal fur, a skin" is related to Albanian. thelmë "cloth, piece of fabric"

He argues this comes from Proto-Albanian *tsalma, rooted in Indo-European *k̂el-, meaning "to cover, hide."

Other Thracian names where he argues this stem appears:

Zelmoutas
Zi-selmios
Aulu-zelmis
Diza-zelmeos
Abro-zelmis


There is an ancient Orphic deity called Zagreus who had an epithet about wearing an animal skin, could Zalmoxis therefore be a similar case? With an Albanian equivalent being something like Thelmoshi?

It recalls obscure and ancient figure of Zagreus (Greek: Ζαγρεύς) as an emanation of archaic Dionysiac rites86, who was considered as god of goats, which was torn and eaten in his honor. His oldest epithet - Melanaegis, meaning “wearing a skin of black goat”, and with this particular epithet, he appeared in Greece for the first time"

Zalmoxis
or ZAMOLXIS (Ζάλμοξις, Ζάμολξις), said to have been so called from the bear's skin (Ζάλμος) in which he was clothed as soon as he was born (Porph. Vit. Pyth, 100.14),

 
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The Illyrian geniuses at genarchavist are now pushing models of supposed ancestors of Albanians as 1/4th MENA 3/4th Illyrian.

This makes sense for Kelmendasi as he has a semitic paternal origin and so has posted in other times things exxagerating mena influence in the balkans (i.e. he is coping), but for the others its surprising that they accept it.

Psychologically for them it seems to be preferable to have a mena illyrian mixed origin rather than just a moesian daco-thracoid origin.

Interesting development in their illyrian hysteria.

1746099581532.png
 
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And of course if 1/4th of pre-slavic proto-albanian ancestry was MENA we should expect a huge antique MENA linguistic influence in Albanian also given that such a huge percentage is the highest we find for slavic ancestry in Albanians and the slavic linguistic influence in Albanian is well known.

The absence of such a huge antique MENA lingusitic signal in Albanian is further evidence for Albanian not descending from these MENA admixed Ilyrians.

Yet another nail in the coffin.
 
Riverman made a a very very interesting speculation about a possible proto-Albanian or Albanoid related migration to France that i think should be posted here also:

"
YFull seems to do something about the ancient DNA samples again, finally. Another interesting assignment, this time downstream of E-Z5017, a branch with lots of Albanians downstream and being part of the main Z5017/central Dacian branches of E-V13, upstream of CTS9320:
https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y3762/

The individual comes from Late Antiquity France and appears to be local Celtic-like autosomally at first glance at the basic proportions:
https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/cg...dieval.htm

There was a second male from the site, which belonged to a branch of R-Z2103 which is common in Albanians as well, namely R-CTS9219 (R1b1a1b1b3a1a1):
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-CTS9219/tree
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-CTS1450/ (the sample being not assigned yet, I got the assignment from the table of the paper)
Compare: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/cg...dieval.htm

This might be the first evidence of some sort of Balkan/specifically Albanian-related migration in Late Antiquity to France/Western Europe in a pretty concrete manner, considering both haplogroups, even if the autosomals are less Balkan-like. Because one might be chance, but 2 at one site are more likely to point to something.

What exactly this means is up to debate, but it might show that those two lineages travelled together (a) and that they also came together to (Pre-/Proto-) Albanians/Albania, one way or another

"
 
Riverman made a a very very interesting speculation about a possible proto-Albanian or Albanoid related migration to France that i think should be posted here also:

"
YFull seems to do something about the ancient DNA samples again, finally. Another interesting assignment, this time downstream of E-Z5017, a branch with lots of Albanians downstream and being part of the main Z5017/central Dacian branches of E-V13, upstream of CTS9320:
https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y3762/

The individual comes from Late Antiquity France and appears to be local Celtic-like autosomally at first glance at the basic proportions:
https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/cg...dieval.htm

There was a second male from the site, which belonged to a branch of R-Z2103 which is common in Albanians as well, namely R-CTS9219 (R1b1a1b1b3a1a1):
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-CTS9219/tree
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-CTS1450/ (the sample being not assigned yet, I got the assignment from the table of the paper)
Compare: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/cg...dieval.htm

This might be the first evidence of some sort of Balkan/specifically Albanian-related migration in Late Antiquity to France/Western Europe in a pretty concrete manner, considering both haplogroups, even if the autosomals are less Balkan-like. Because one might be chance, but 2 at one site are more likely to point to something.

What exactly this means is up to debate, but it might show that those two lineages travelled together (a) and that they also came together to (Pre-/Proto-) Albanians/Albania, one way or another

"
What this shoud provoke is a probing of these french regions to see if there is any sort of old Albanoid linguistic influence that can be gleaned from old toponyms and anthroponyms.

If such a signal were to be found that would be quite a breakthrough on a lot of fronts...
 
What this shoud provoke is a probing of these french regions to see if there is any sort of old Albanoid linguistic influence that can be gleaned from old toponyms and anthroponyms.

If such a signal were to be found that would be quite a breakthrough on a lot of fronts...
Really cool stuff however if there was really an Albanian migration into France, I dont think those individuals left a lingustic trace in those regions where they settled and just got assimilated into the Latinophone population.
 
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