Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Johane Derite]

How is that "exactly" what I am claiming? Kosovars speak Geg. That means they're just an extension of northern Albanians. Geg/Tosk split happened around Shkumbin 1500 years ago.

You claimed Albanian shepherds from North Albania in the last few hundred years spread from their tribal homelands (Berisha, Krasniq, Gashi, Shala, etc) all the way to Nish and became the dominant linguistic group from Kosova to Presheva. Such a scenario could have easily happened in antiquity also.

Proto-Albanian speakers that expanded and had far more sons, becoming the dominant demographic force and the latin speaking Illyrians of Koman would be forced to assimilate into the new reality.

Also important to keep in mind that population sizes were far smaller in the past. Prishtina had a population of 10,000 people 100 years ago.

 

[Hawk]

To be honest would not be surprised if the Illyrian patrilineage (J2b-L283) is responsible for the lighter phenotype in North Albanians and Kosovars as opposed to the more darker phenotype of middle and south Albania (not going to mention Arvanites as they are dark af). After all I do think that we most likely did inherit that more northern shifted Illyrian look to some degree for sure.

I think that you seem to forget the fact that J2b2-L283 originally is a CHG/Iranian-Zagrosi farmer marker who supposedly either got IE-zed by incorporating among Yamnaya (all Yamnaya to date are R1b-Z2103 with some I2a2-M223 so chances look slim) or at latter stages post 2000 B.C somewhere in Western-Balkans and Eastern Alps.

 

[Johane Derite]

The confusion of Dardanian and Taulantii relationship stems from the fact that a certain tribe named Peresadyes were ruling elite among both Dardanians and Taulantii according to Hammond, and these were represented in Trebeniste Culture. The Peresadyes name seem to be linked with certain names of Odrysian Thracians (one of Spartokid Kings named Peresadyes, Odrysian Prince Berisades/Peresadyes), probably a deeper connection with them in Early Iron Age. But by Classical Antuiqity they were more of a Thraco-Illyrian admixed tribe. So a Belegis-Gava/Channeled-Ware ancestry of them is probable, they admixed with Glasinac-Mat Illyrians.

In Troy after destruction, you find all over the place archeologically traces of Channeled-Ware/Gava tribes. So, connection is quite possible.

Comparing Dardanoi of Troy and Dardani of Balkans with Caucasian Albania is a major cope, and shows they are being dishonest. Not only is there the presence of knobbed ware, showing a direct archaeological connection, this is not the only tribal name that has a doublet, there are also the Mysians, Brygians/Phrygians, etc.

These are all established in academia and accepted by scholars, so trying to say there is no connection between the Balkan Dardani and Dardanoi of Troy is a stretch.

 

[mount123]

I think that you seem to forget the fact that J2b2-L283 originally is a CHG/Iranian-Zagrosi marker who supposedly either got IE-zed by incorporating among Yamnaya (all Yamnaya to date are R1b-Z2103 with some I2a2-M223 so chances look slim) or at latter stages post 2000 B.C somewhere in Western-Balkans and Eastern Alps.

?

I was just implementing that the possibilty of PIE Illyrians being significantly lighter than IA Thracians is quite big.

Sure and E1b-V13 got incorporated by Yamnaya as a former African lineage...

 

[Johane Derite]

Like I said, the Greek/Roman historians were 1000x more accurate than any modern "scholar".

Ok then, here are some ancient historians that clearly said Dardani of Balkans and Dardanoi of Troy were related:

 

[Hawk]

?

I was just implementing that the possibilty of PIE Illyrians being significantly lighter than IA Thracians is quite big.

That's a possibility for sure, but some Thracians seem to have been quite fair as well like Dacians and Getae. Ancient authors like Herodotus, Aristotle and Xenophon thought all Thracians were red-haired and blue eyed but that was wrong lol.

Sure and E1b-V13 got incorporated by Yamnaya as a former African lineage...

Africa is such a wide term, E-M78 is a North African lineage through and through, they were quite exotic looking for sure and darker, but they were not SSA looking at all, Iberomaurusians and Nile Valley Egyptian hunter gatherers were the tallest people on earth along with European Gravettians during Paleolithic/Mesolithic, and ANA were far more robust than European Gravettians in turn. Egypt in Paleolithic/Mesolithic times was like modern Southern Europe as far as climate comes, but probably E-L618 got pushed away by other E-M78 tribes when Sahara started to expand and desertify the region and the world's first large-scale human armed conflict started to appear like the massacre at Jebel Sahaba 13 thousand years ago.

So, E-M78 from North Africa was a mixed ANA (Ancient North African males) and Dzudzuana females, while E-L618 was Anatolian farmer with admixed Levantine PPNB, and in turn E-V13 mutation in Europe an Anatolian farmer mixed with Steppe. This is the chronology.

 

[mount123]

Not that I'm aware of. But the solstice festivals were common to many IE groups, Thracians also had them, etc. Also our ancestors were Christian for a thousand years before islam, so many such traditions also entered via roman christian syncretisms.

The closest culture to Komani-Kruja culture is in Dalmatia in where Dalmatians (latin speaking locals) lived.

Celebrating the winter solstice at around the same time as Jesus Christ's birthday (that middle eastern guy) in late antiquity/dark ages? Don't think so... also just the word "Dimnor" does not sound like a pagan-christian hybrid more like hardcore pagan.

I mean archeology in Kosovo kind of sucks. We have Kalaja e Justinianit in Fushe Kosove and many more interesting sights but no real funding input from the so "patriotic" politician Albin Kurti (the former leaders were bad too).

 

[mount123]

That's a possibility for sure, but some Thracians seem to have been quite fair as well like Dacians and Getae.



Africa is such a wide term, E-M78 is a North African lineage through and through, they were quite exotic looking for sure and darker, but they were not SSA looking at all, Iberomaurusians and Nile Valley Egyptian hunter gatherers were the tallest people on earth along with European Gravettians during Paleolithic/Mesolithic, and ANA were far more robust than European Gravettians in turn. Egypt in Paleolithic/Mesolithic times was like modern Southern Europe as far as climate comes, but probably E-L618 got pushed away by other E-M78 tribes when Sahara started to expand and desertify the region and the world's first large-scale human armed conflict started to appear like the massacre at Jebel Sahaba.

So, E-M78 from North Africa was a mixed ANA (Ancient North African males) and Dzudzuana females, while E-L618 was Anatolian farmer totally, and in turn E-V13 mutation in Europe an Anatolian farmer mixed with Steppe. This is the chronology.

My paternal line is f'ing Illyrian... the African answer was just at the same cognitive level as your weird answer to my phenotype comment. Sure but I don't think these E1b people were as fair as PIE Illyrians or had in any way similar features... I mean would be obscure if they did. Also just looking at that turban like garnment of those Berisha/Kelmendi/Sopi whatever guys in Rugova and their tan and features...yikes.

 

[Hawk]

My paternal line is f'ing Illyrian... the African answer was just at the same cognitive level as your weird answer to my phenotype comment. Sure but I don't think these E1b people were as fair as PIE Illyrians or had in any way similar features... I mean would be obscure if they did. Also just looking at that turban like garnment of those Berisha/Kelmendi/Sopi whatever guys in Rugova and their tan and features...yikes.

My response was adressing your stupid claim that your line brought light features when it is such a complex scenario, EEF were dark haired but light skinned. Personally, i tend to be on the same line of the opinion as Ancient Greeks too light features and too dark are not attractive, Med tan is good.

Btw, there was never any Berish or Sop in Rugov to start with and they never wore any turban like garnment lol.

 

[Excine]

Regarding to the turban like garment, which is not only is seen in Rugova but also in Malesi.

Personally, I'm not sure where it originated, and the styles are somewhat varied. The garment is apparently intended to be long enough to cover a deceased person's body.

Book dedicated to Rugova clothing; https://www.scribd.com/document/396868682/Rugovska-nosnja

 

[Hawk]

That's a tradition from the Ottoman times, Derite probably knows better IDK.

But the funny thing about that dude is acting like aristocratic princess "yikes" hahaha.

 

[mount123]

My response was adressing your stupid claim that your line brought light features when it is such a complex scenario, EEF were dark haired but light skinned. Personally, i tend to be on the same line of the opinion as Ancient Greeks too light features and too dark are not attractive, Med tan is good.

Btw, there was never any Berish or Sop in Rugov to start with and they never wore any turban like garnment lol.

The admixture of the Illyrian samples can give guesses as to what they looked like but sure we Sumerians n sheet.

I mean I also like that I at least get a bronze tan when sun bathing in Batllava or whilst working on the fields in some of my free time during summer. I also think that it makes me more attractive but than in general Paleo Balkan features are more "attractive" than slanted eyes and reddish skin.

Are you from Albania? Well Peja region was pretty much ruled by Berisha-Sopi and its subclades for a very long time also J2b-L283 is quite low there.

 

[mount123]

That's a tradition from the Ottoman times, Derite probably knows better IDK.

But the funny thing about that dude is acting like aristocratic princess "yikes" hahaha.

That garment is old af... nothing Ottoman about it or did you ever see a Turk wearing that. Would not be surprised if it dated back to Neolithic/EEF times. The proximity of it regarding its similarity to lets say Atlas Berbers is quite astonishing.

 

[Johane Derite]

That's a tradition from the Ottoman times, Derite probably knows better IDK.

It is an Ottoman era fashion. I can imagine that in the cold mountains they found it useful and adapted it. The words for it in Albanian are ottoman era loans also, not of Albanian origin.


One possible problem with the L283 "light-pigmentation" hypothesis is Mirdita, which in Coon's work were the shortest of all the Gegës, also had darkest hair among the Gegës, and this is a very heavy L283 zone.

Also this problem is multifaceted, and needs to account for many different streams of ancestry (like the Puka I1 cluster, probably of germanic origin, possible slavic ancestries), etc.

 

[mount123]

That's a tradition from the Ottoman times, Derite probably knows better IDK.

But the funny thing about that dude is acting like aristocratic princess "yikes" hahaha.

Also why so passive aggressive

 

[mount123]

It is an Ottoman era fashion. I can imagine that in the cold mountains they found it useful and adapted it. The words for it in Albanian are ottoman era loans also, not of Albanian origin.


One possible problem with the L283 "light-pigmentation" hypothesis is Mirdita, which in Coon's work were the shortest of all the Gegës, also had darkest hair among the Gegës, and this is a very heavy L283 zone.

Also this problem is multifaceted, and needs to account for many different streams of ancestry (like the Puka I1 cluster, probably of germanic origin, possible slavic ancestries), etc.

Mirdita is NOT a heavy J2b-L283 region. The J2b-L283 hotspots among "Gegs" are Central Eastern Kosovo, some eastern located areas be it northern or middle or southern Albania. In fact even ethnic Bulgarians in Albania carry more J2b-L283 or Metsovo Aromanians than the people in Mirdita.

 

[Hawk]

The admixture of the Illyrian samples can give guesses as to what they looked like but sure we Sumerians n sheet.

I mean I also like that I at least get a bronze tan when sun bathing in Batllava or whilst working on the fields in some of my free time during summer. I also think that it makes me more attractive but than in general Paleo Balkan features are more "attractive" than slanted eyes and reddish skin.

Are you from Albania? Well Peja region was pretty much ruled by Berisha-Sopi and its subclades for a very long time also J2b-L283 is quite low there.

There were Berish in Pej but not Sopi, in fact these two have no recent connection between each other in any way possible. I am an Albanian with origin from Lugin.

In my autosomal i am one of the few Albanians and Balkanites with the most Yamnaya, i have like 38% Yamnaya(don't know if i got it by Slavic admixture but i don't think they are the main factor since i got lower Baltic than some other Albos), and i do have slanted eyes which makes me look a bit Pseudo-Mongoloid.

 

[mount123]

It is an Ottoman era fashion. I can imagine that in the cold mountains they found it useful and adapted it. The words for it in Albanian are ottoman era loans also, not of Albanian origin.


One possible problem with the L283 "light-pigmentation" hypothesis is Mirdita, which in Coon's work were the shortest of all the Gegës, also had darkest hair among the Gegës, and this is a very heavy L283 zone.

Also this problem is multifaceted, and needs to account for many different streams of ancestry (like the Puka I1 cluster, probably of germanic origin, possible slavic ancestries), etc.

It has nothing to do with Ottomans that fashion screams EEF.

 

[broder]

The ‘Truban’ is of Ottoman heritage obviously and is also known in other words as Qefin (the white cloth that muslims cover their dead with). It’s a warrior thing, like Catholics of the same region for example tattooing a cross so they are buried as Christians when they die during battle.


Plus assigning a phenotype to haplo’s that have been in Europe for thousands of years is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Hawk]

That garment is old af... nothing Ottoman about it or did you ever see a Turk wearing that. Would not be surprised if it dated back to Neolithic/EEF times. The proximity of it regarding its similarity to lets say Atlas Berbers is quite astonishing.

Why Atlas Berbers when our subclades with them is more than 20k years old lol, why not Ancient Egyptians Old dynasty whom we share more recent paternal ancestry 13k. Maybe we built the Bosnian Pyramids afterall?

It's funny because, E-V13 Gava/Channeled-Ware Culture had completely opposite after-life belief with Afro-Asiatic people who thought inhumation was sacred and preserving the dead body was crucial for going in after-life (mummification), whereas E-V13 people burned their corpses believing that the soul will quicklier reach the after-life.