Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[enter_tain]

Etymologists have already spoken on this matter. Arbën doesn't mean field. Arë means field, the addition of a /b/ for no reason doesn't make sense unless it was a term loaned into albanian as latin. corvus became > korb.

The meaning of Arbën being field is a local term recorded in Kurbin, referring specifically to the field between the river of Mat and Erzen. That is it. It is not a general Albanian term, it is only a local term by locals of the region.

Like someone saying Mal e Dukagjin in a folk song, referring to the plain of Dukagjin. This doesn't mean "Dukagjin" means plain in Albanian.

Trying to smuggle in this bull-sh*t etymology is a sign of pathetic desperation and unwillingness to face the truth.

Alb- is the earliest form of the Albanoi. Either etymologically related to Alb- mountains, or Alb- white.

Laberia demonstrates this as slavs must have learnt it as Albania to have made the metathesis alb -> Lab.

Polybius' and Stephanus of Byzantium's works talk about the croatian island Rab which was Arba in antiquity, and not Albanopolis, again trying to smuggle this reference into the discussion of the Albanoi is a sign of pathetic weakling desperation and damage control.

Mal e arbën is an expression. You're not a linguist and stop talking on their behalf. Both Mal (Dimallum - dy male), and Arben (Arbenia), are attested Illyrian/Albanian places.

 

[enter_tain]

And btw, Queen Teuta took refuge in "Arbona", both people and places in northern Albania. Aurel Plasari debunked the whole "Arbona" was some island b.s. as there's no mention of it.

We also have someone of last name "Arbaios" written in ancient Greek in Phoenice/Finiq.

Plenty of examples of recorded "arb" root before Albanopolis which was written in Latin and by Latin authors.

 

[Johane Derite]

Seriously, Aurel Plasari has made a fool of himself. And whoever is editing the Albanoi page on wiki is also.

This is the quote from Polybius on Arbo:

"They admitted this tribe to their friendship as well as the Atintanes, and advanced towards Issa which was also being besieged by the Illyrians.

On their arrival they forced the enemy to raise the siege and took the Issaeans also under their protection.

The fleet too took several Illyrian cities by assault as they sailed along the coast, losing, however, at Nutria not only many soldiers, but some of their military tribunes and their quaestor.

They also captured twenty boats which were conveying the plunder from the country.


Of the besiegers of Issa those now in Pharos were allowed, through Demetrius' influence, to remain there unhurt, while the others dispersed and took refuge at Arbo."

§ 2.11.15
Polybius
Histories

This Arbo that Polybius mentions is not Albanopolis as some idiots are writing on the Albanoi wiki page. It is the croatian island Rab, which was known by Dalmatians as Arba:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rab?oldformat=true


This is plain to see and obvious given the mention of Issa, which is today the Croatian island Vis, and Pharos, which is the Croatian island Hvar, and these are mentioned in the same sentence in the context of coastal wars.

That this Arbo is being claimed to be Albanopolis on the Albanoi wiki page shows just how low a level of a seriousness and manipulative scumbags these people are. Likewise, this is the Arbon that Stephanus of Byzantium references in the 7th century, so he is also not referring to Albanopolis. He explicitly cites Polybius.

The quote by Polybius is talking about Issa, Pharos, and Arba. Trying to claim this quote by Polybius is referencing Albanopolis is seriously pathetic.

Proto-Albanians do not come from the island of Arba.

 

[Johane Derite]

And btw, Queen Teuta took refuge in "Arbona", both people and places in northern Albania.

Yet again with more stupid lies from you.

Queen Teuta took refuge in RHIZON, which is today Risan, Montenegreo.

"Of the besiegers of Issa those now in Pharos were allowed, through Demetrius' influence, to remain there unhurt, while the others dispersed and took refuge at Arbo.

Teuta, with only a few followers, escaped to Rhizon, a place strongly fortified at a distance from the sea and situated on the river Rhizon."

Polybius
Histories
§ 2.11.15

 

[Olti27]

In my opinion, if there was a rhoctacism of a foreigner who heard a local it most probably was from r->l. For example chinese people would pronounce Arban as Alban. Also when kids start talking at the beginning they have difficulties of pronouncing 'r' and render it as 'l' and only later they learn to pronounce 'r' correctly.

 

[Dibran]

E-V13 looks like the Proto-Albanoid marker, i always suspected it is a language brought by Channeled-Ware people (one of inter-related languages). It fits the narrative based on facts, arguments. Still up to nowadays Beskidy mountains somehow kept this Pre Proto-Albanoid word. Beskidy-Carpathians was the birthplace of this language family during MBA-LBA up until they migrated deeper in Balkans during LBA.

As Derite already pointed out looks like Illyrian J2b2-L283 and whatever other Y-DNA was already Latinized and they are likely the source of heavy Latin substratum in Albanian.

E-V13 is too old and spread out to be Proto-Albanoid. Unless you're just using it as a broad generalization. Proto-Albanoid branches are likely further downstream E-V13. And it would only be one of a number of such branches out of others such as J2b-L283 branches and R1b branches such as Z2705.

Claiming J2b-L283 was all Latinozed Illyrians is clearly a cope by you because you're E-V13, and it's lack so far in West Balkans would bother you of J2b-L283 had any linguistic relation to Proto-Albanian.
The idea Proto-Albanians were one haplogroup is some mental retardation inbred logic.

What is your E-V13 subclade btw?

 

[Fustan]

The idea Proto-Albanians were one haplogroup is some mental retardation inbred logic.

I see everyone and not just him push this. I haven't been on fora in a long time until just a few months ago, did everyone turn insane or some shit?

 

[Dibran]

I see everyone and not just him push this. I haven't been on fora in a long time until just a few months ago, did everyone turn insane or some shit?

I think so man. It's really sad. Proto-Albanians, at least the earliest Proto-Albanians were likely already carrying a mix of J2b-L283/R1b/E-V13 and perhaps even some J2a/J1 which despite small numbers is pretty diverse in Albanians.

By the time of late Proto-Albanians, I1, some R1a and I2a was already absorbed as the Komani culture was crystalizing into old Albanians of the early medieval. But we're supposed to believe this Nimrod-E-V13 one bloodline bs as if any civilization could survive with one bloodline before it evolved itself into extinction. Lol

 

[enter_tain]

In my opinion, if there was a rhoctacism of a foreigner who heard a local it most probably was from r->l. For example chinese people would pronounce Arban as Alban. Also when kids start talking at the beginning they have difficulties of pronouncing 'r' and render it as 'l' and only later they learn to pronounce 'r' correctly.

Romans labelled like 3-4 different places as "Albania". There's an entire Wikipedia page on the different Albanias. Johan Derite is just off his meds.

Scotland/Albania -> Albion
Balkans Albania -> Arbani
Caucas Albania -> Aluank/Agwhank (in modern days)

There's a whole set of grifters pretending exonyms are what the native people called themselves. "Albanopolis/Albania" has always been mentioned in Latin scripts or Latin historians.

 

[Fustan]

I think so man. It's really sad. Proto-Albanians, at least the earliest Proto-Albanians were likely already carrying a mix of J2b-L283/R1b/E-V13 and perhaps even some J2a/J1 which despite small numbers is pretty diverse in Albanians.
By the time of late Proto-Albanians, I1, some R1a and I2a was already absorbed as the Komani culture was crystalizing into old Albanians of the early medieval. But we're supposed to believe this Nimrod-E-V13 one bloodline bs as if any civilization could survive with one bloodline before it evolved itself into extinction. Lol

It's such black and white thinking now. Either E-V13 has to be the proto-Albanian haplogroup because most Albanians have it, or it has to be J2-L283 because it has mostly been found in.... coastal Croatia (can hardly even represent Dalmatian Illyrians)... with clades where only one (the most southernmost sample) can be connected with Albanians........

People are making proto-Albanians and the Illyrians such a mystery by not studying their descendants, namely Albanians, and it's pathetic to see Albanians fall for it just because they have some personal crisis like not finding E-V13 in ancient Illyrian samples (Hawk) despite there being zero sampling in the most important regions (Albania, Kosova, North Macedonia, Montenegro). I read some anthrogenica posts of his and he just seems to have some personal insecurity or something, which explains why he won't say which clade he is as well. No wonder he supports a Daco-Thracian (retarded) theory over Illyrian.

I also love how people forgot R1b-L23 exists.

 

[Dibran]

It's such black and white thinking now. Either E-V13 has to be the proto-Albanian haplogroup because most Albanians have it, or it has to be J2-L283 because it has mostly been found in.... coastal Croatia (can hardly even represent Dalmatian Illyrians)... with clades where only one (the most southernmost sample) can be connected with Albanians........
People are making proto-Albanians and the Illyrians such a mystery by not studying their descendants, namely Albanians, and it's pathetic to see Albanians fall for it just because they have some personal crisis like not finding E-V13 in ancient Illyrian samples (Hawk) despite there being zero sampling in the most important regions (Albania, Kosova, North Macedonia, Montenegro). I read some anthrogenica posts of his and he just seems to have some personal insecurity or something, which explains why he won't say which clade he is as well. No wonder he supports a Daco-Thracian (retarded) theory over Illyrian.
I also love how people forgot R1b-L23 exists.

Exactly. Albanians ate likely connected to Southern Illyrian groups which haven't even been sampled yet. They're likely to prove the point too. Illyrians were likely a language family of which Proto-Albanian was its only survivor. Much like you have distantly related languages within the Germanic or Slavic language family.

But these people paint everything with a broad brush as if their brains can't grasp nuance.

I think Flor mentioned a study coming soon with a number of samples from Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro and even Kosove I think from BA to IA.

Even Rrenjet noted E-V13 was found in Iron Age Albania with J2b-L283 and R1b-PF57652 from the middle BA to IA, that will be published sometime soon. If I'm not mistaken it is in the same batch of samples from the study Flor noted.

Yea I noticed he's never revealed his subclade of E-V13, even since the Apricity days. For all we know he doesn't even have recent Albanian matches and likes to talk smack about me having a Slavic Y-DNA when i called him out on his meltdown for not trusting either project for the head admin not being E-V13. Despite me actually having an Albanian founder effect with Albanian matches going back to the early medieval from Kruje to Diber and West Macedonia.

Probably absorbed from Berziti Slavic tribe or something into late Komani culture. As long as it's recently Albanian, I'll take that over a paleobalkan line with no Albanian matches at all. Probably why he always dodges the question.

 

[Fustan]

Exactly. Albanians ate likely connected to Southern Illyrian groups which haven't even been sampled yet. They're likely to prove the point too. Illyrians were likely a language family of which Proto-Albanian was its only survivor. Much like you have distantly related languages within the Germanic or Slavic language family.
But these people paint everything with a broad brush as if their brains can't grasp nuance.

100% my thoughts as well.

I think Flor mentioned a study coming soon with a number of samples from Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro and even Kosove I think from BA to IA.
Even Rrenjet noted E-V13 was found in Iron Age Albania with J2b-L283 and R1b-PF57652 from the middle BA to IA, that will be published sometime soon. If I'm not mistaken it is in the same batch of samples from the study Flor noted.

That study looks super promising, however I must warn you to not be too optimistic. Even if we will find E-V13, J2-L283 and R1b-L23 in symbiosis in this study, you will still have a bunch of fools spouting their stupid ass opinions. Trust me, Derite will still go on Trojans and Riverman will keep on babbling about Daco-Thracians, French guy will still go on about how that one clade is Celtic. This insanity will never end I'm afraid.

Yea I noticed he's never revealed his subclade of E-V13, even since the Apricity days.

Apricity was fun old times, at least the Albanians there back then used to defend their Illyrian heritage. And apecity was (and I assume still is) a total shithole, but this place makes it look like it was paradise.

For all we know he doesn't even have recent Albanian matches and likes to talk smack about me having a Slavic Y-DNA when i called him out on his meltdown for not trusting either project for the head admin not being E-V13. Despite me actually having an Albanian founder effect with Albanian matches going back to the early medieval from Kruje to Diber and West Macedonia.
Probably absorbed from Berziti Slavic tribe or something into late Komani culture. As long as it's recently Albanian, I'll take that over a paleobalkan line with no Albanian matches at all. Probably why he always dodges the question.

I mean I myself trolled you about R1a years ago, but I was much more immature back then so I apologize for it now, years later. I admire what you have done for the projects, especially sponsoring so many kits in a wise manner, and I am happy to see someone defending the Illyrian heritage of the three main haplogroups, and giving insights into the minor ones as you did in your earlier post(I had no idea J2a was diverse among Albanians).

 

[Dibran]

100% my thoughts as well.
That study looks super promising, however I must warn you to not be too optimistic. Even if we will find E-V13, J2-L283 and R1b-L23 in symbiosis in this study, you will still have a bunch of fools spouting their stupid ass opinions. Trust me, Derite will still go on Trojans and Riverman will keep on babbling about Daco-Thracians, French guy will still go on about how that one clade is Celtic. This insanity will never end I'm afraid.
Apricity was fun old times, at least the Albanians there back then used to defend their Illyrian heritage. And apecity was (and I assume still is) a total shithole, but this place makes it look like it was paradise.
I mean I myself trolled you about R1a years ago, but I was much more immature back then so I apologize for it now, years later. I admire what you have done for the projects, especially sponsoring so many kits in a wise manner, and I am happy to see someone defending the Illyrian heritage of the three main haplogroups, and giving insights into the minor ones as you did in your earlier post(I had no idea J2a was diverse among Albanians).

Yea for sure. They will still deny the truth because it's a hard pill to swallow. You'd think it'd humble people. Instead you have people raging for nothing at all. They will make up bs like "oh the branch is older than the Albanian subclade, must have just been later Albanized Illyrians that were Latinized first" like this rocket scientist is going on about.

Almost as retarded as the argument that some claim most R1a and I-Y3120 isn't Slavic. But if you do that where does that leave the Slavs? Ghost Y-DNA that doesn't exist? Lol

I mean sure R-L1029 and I-Y3120 were only one man when they joined the Proto-Slavs who were largely Z280. But there's no denying it mostly spread with Slavic migrations and is what helped differentiate that from the Balts. Probably around the North East Carpathians.

Yea J2a is pretty diverse. You'd expect it to match Greek J2a and yet those who have been sequenced are mostly Bronze Age/Iron Age splits. Theres only 2 Albanians that form a medieval cluster. The rest are all ancient. Some going back 5500-8800 years. So no recent matches. I mean sure,, J2a is more common in the South and far less common in the North. But it does pop up even in Kosove. But it's interesting. Wouldn't be surprised if the Iron Age clusters are connected to Epirotes.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M410/

There's also J1 which is even more rare and has a decent diversity. This clade clearly has an Albanian founder effect. I wouldn't be surprised if the Turk study sample was an exiled Albanian and the sample from Bari where Albanians migrated could be Arberesh origin.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-FGC12816/

According to Hawk though. These are equivalent to gypsy/Roma lol.

And no worries man. Water under the bridge. We live and we learn. I had a lot of rage and immaturity back then too lol.

I wish I was super rich and could honestly do more. It's super expensive. But my next goal is to try and test Dardhe in Diber, Selite of Mirdita/Mat, Kthelle of Mirdit, central Mat and some areas in Southern Kosove. Basically whatever hasn't been tested as far as villages. But that will probably be over the course of the next couple years since I want to make a big batch.

After testing Golloborde and Bulqize, some really basal interesting J2b-L283 was found. If I'm not mistaken some were Iron Age splits with no recent matches. Also the Northern Diber area turned up J2b-L283/R1b-Z2705, R1a-A11460 and also the line of Elez Isuf Ndreu should be Celtic R1b branch if I recall from a 23andme match from Diber of the same family name.

Im helping sponsor kits in Reka at the moment which is mostly R1b and a few R1a in my cluster. I'm hoping we can find Galicnik Mijaks because I habe a hunch that their M458 is under Y133367 or parallel to it since it's found in Reka and all the areas surrounding it. Much respect to Gjergj and Alban though who are finding everyone end sending out kits. I've been asking alot lolol.

 

[Hawk]

E-V13 is too old and spread out to be Proto-Albanoid. Unless you're just using it as a broad generalization. Proto-Albanoid branches are likely further downstream E-V13. And it would only be one of a number of such branches out of others such as J2b-L283 branches and R1b branches such as Z2705.
Claiming J2b-L283 was all Latinozed Illyrians is clearly a cope by you because you're E-V13, and it's lack so far in West Balkans would bother you of J2b-L283 had any linguistic relation to Proto-Albanian.
The idea Proto-Albanians were one haplogroup is some mental retardation inbred logic.

One of the lineages ultimately has to be the language carrier (though R1b-Z2103 is ultimately responsible for all Balkanic IE IMO, but way earlier during early EBA), i didn't said Proto-Albanian (Early Middle Ages, but Proto-Albanoid instead, something earlier) but you didn't care reading about it because you just want to "ass-lick" Fustanella and his comrades so you can better fit in and show your Albanianism lol. Me claiming it comes as a result one of the most prominent Albanologists as Matzinger denying Albanian descending from Illyrian and instead presenting a new picture on Balkanic IE with Illyrian not even belonging to this group of languages and being instead of East Alpine Block. But, once more you want to present usual intrigues. You just go with the theory that Fustanella and his other comrades want to hear, you want to please them because it's easier for you.

There is one other strong candidate as well, R1b-Z2705, but it's hard to know how much present was before Justinian Plague/invasions.

Obviously you act like teenager girl who lost it's virginity if i mention anything related to rrenjet be it objective because it's your mental shelter there after broder said that your village spoke Slavic once upon a time.

What is your E-V13 subclade btw?

I am not going to tell you, i have publicly posted here of course. I have a sub-clade which is found solely among Albanians. But, just because your dumb-evil intentive question, i will leave it open.

As for the rest, typical weak cheerleader girl behaviour lol. "I told you so, all E-V13 members Derite, Riverman, Aspurg, Hawk went completely insane". Both you and Fustanella complete the profile of a village sniffers and trash-talkers.

 

[Hawk]

No wonder he supports a Daco-Thracian (retarded) theory over Illyrian.

IMO, that's all you got up your sleeves, "retarded theory" and you stop there. You completely lack any kind of insight in Balkan Bronze Age, Iron Age archeology the only weapon you carry around is that (i can read through your bullshit, it's pointless to masqeruade). According to you every knowledgeable E-V13 member is attacking E-V13. And it is you Don Quixote defending it. Super weird.

There is no point on denying many of E-V13 subclades connection with Daco-Thracians and ultimately Proto-Thracians (i guess that's something which bothers you and your friends), we have mentioned dozens of times before there might have been Illyrii proprii dictii carrying E-V13, but we don't know, although reading Albanian, Yugoslav archeologists on material culture and making comparisons between current aDNA and material culture they shouldn't carry too much of it and most of them would join the ranks during Late Bronze Age. I expect people like Encheleii to carry E-V13, but if you read their material culture, it differed from Illyrian-Glasinac. But then again Albanian archeologists recognized 4 material cultures ancestral of Illyrians with the core being Glasinac-Mat and second being Trebeniste?! (Encheleii and related tribes).

Do you even bother reading any material related to all of this? No, because your "dungeon and dragons" world suffices you and you don't want to break it by all means. So whoever is commenting anything related to it and opposes any different worldview it appears as a monster in your dungeons and dragons world. Likewise you attack very polite and respected members like Riverman and Derite all the time. And you even tried to blatantly lie about them. You even go as far as attacking Matzinger and labeling names and stuff, you are just a combination of evil and dumb who just uses situational one-liner comments without digging deep. That's all you can contribute.

 

[Johane Derite]

On a more updated distribution of Channeled ware in Albania.
The people that would have brought channelled ware to Albania would not have been speaking the Glasinac illyrian language.
Source: https://aegeobalkanprehistory.kreas...bania-from-bronze-to-iron-age-in-the-balkans/

Channeled ware, which beings appearing in Albania for the first time around ~1200 BC, and is an invasive phenomena into Albania, Kosova, Troy etc, would have brought a new haplogroup with it, but also a new language most probably.

If Riverman's hypothesis that EV13's expansion happened with channeled ware is correct, then this is the time period from which EV13 should first appear in Albania (although I have written earlier about some possible middle bronze age EV13 branches).

These people would have had a different haplogroup, autosomal signal, and language, than the earlier established people of Albania and Dalmatia.

Nicholas Hammond connected this migration with the "Brygi" who appear sporadically in ancient sources, around Mati, Pelagonia, Epirus, etc.

But he wrote that the term "Brygi" was probably just a general ancient term referring to the invading northeners.

This migration of Brygi into Epirus and West Macedonia he argues also had a role in pushing Dorians and Thessali south.

So to those claiming that Albanian is a South Illyrian language, they should make up their mind which South Illyrians they mean, the South Illyrians that invaded Illyria with channeled ware, or that were there since the
earlier middle bronze age period with their Glasinac cousins in Bosnia.

Here there are already two differing ancestries and languages present in the "South Illyrian" space.

 

[Riverman]

Basically the area of Albania has different sources. There are the most ancient ones, I would assume they are largely R-Z2103 and otherwise fairly mixed, probably distantly related Greek-Armenian, and then there are two people coming in, associated with two of the main haplogroups modern Albanians carry.

The first group is J-L283 and it seems to have been associated with the Bell Beaker periphery, later transitioned into Tumulus Culture, in Pannonian into the Middle Danubian Urnfielders in part. Essentially, they came from the West and being culturally, as well as autosomally, strongly influenced by Southern Bell Beakers. This can be best illustrated by these images:

https://aegeobalkanprehistory.kreas.ff.cuni.cz/2008/03/06/when-the-west-meets-the-east/

This is the framework in which J-L283 expanded, most likely related to the Bell Beaker into Pannonian-Adriatic periphery, which transitioned into the Tumulus culture in Pannonia-Western Adriatic. I would associate this with the Proto-Illyrians.

The second group coming in the Bronze Age was Channelled Ware, and I want to give some hints as to what happened, I posted it before, but people might not know this quotations:

Alexandra Papazovska, Early Iron Age Settlements in Macedonia and Their Relationship to Cemeteries. From the printed version of:
https://www.academia.edu/43626649/S...Heilmann_Aleksandar_Kapuran_and_Marek_Verčík_

About the invasion of the Channelled Ware people in the area of (North) Macedonia (p. 142 ff.):

From the end of the 12th to first half of the 11th century BCE, the territory along the Vardar River Valley might have been under frequent attacks and exposed to movements of populations from north to south, who brought new elements from the northern and central Balkans, which were especially visible in the material culture (including channelled pottery, fibulae and weapons such as swords of the Erbenheim and Nenzingen type as well as axes). These movements at the end of the Bronze Age hindered and influenced the development of communities in this part of the Balkans, which suggested by the discovery of burnt layers in settlements along the Vardar River Valley (for example, at Stolot near Ulanci, Manastir near Caska, Veles, Vardarski Rid, and Kastanas). Some settlements were destroyed completely, while others changed their location to a safer position, as is the case of the settlement at Vardarski Rid by Gevgelija, which was moved to a neighbouring hill of Kofilak (Fig. 2).
The most illustrative example of these occurrences was identified on the site Manastir near the village of Caska, Veles, where the discovered material (including monochrome pottery, bronze and bone tools, spindle whorls, hand mills, and jewellery) illustrated local character, cultural and economic power of the settlement until its destruction. The nature of the destruction layers in which these objects were discovered suggests the settlement suffered from a severe fire. A couple of bronze axes, spearheads, and arrowheads simply links to the northern Balkans (Fig. 3), and if the context of discovery is taken into account, it is feasible that they might have belonged to those who destroyed settlement. These types of weapons were unknown to this territory in the previous period and hence they seem to be unique. Thanks ot the relatively simple stratigraphy of the settlement and the clear original context of the finds, it is evident that the settlement suffered in a heavy fire and was never rebuilt again. Burnt layers dating to the Late Bronze Age were also discovered at settlements in the Lower Vardar Valley (such as at Kastanas, Vardino Vardaroftsa), wher ea number of "influences" from the northern and central Balkans are visible in the portable finds.

Things to note:
- The Channelled Ware people moved south along the river valleys and burnt a large fraction of the local peoples settlements down along their way.
- The local people did not disappear completely, but they retreated to upland fortified and hidden settlements.
- The Channelled Ware people did not leave, but primarily settled in the lowlands

If we reveiw known settlements and cemeteries in the region, two types of both settlements and cemeteries can be distinguished. The flat cemeteries with inhumation burials are found around settlement positioned on high and dominant hills, while the cemeteries with cremations are usually associated with unfortified settlements positioned on lower terraces.

The situation was really similar to some later Germanic and Slavic settlements in the Alpine and Carpathian zone. The end result was most likely a merged-fused population at some point, with one side keeping the upper hand on the long run. Genetically, the result was a mixture of course.

Now about the origin of Channelled Ware/G?va:

All the cultures from which Channelled Ware emerged have their counterparts or even origin in Romania. Many of the groups just have Hungarian and Romanian names or provinces. Take for example cultural formations I mentioned before, which need to be tested, like Cotofeni, Ny?rs?g, Mako, Livezile, Wietenberg, Otomani, F?zesabony, Berkesz, Suciu de Sus, Lapoș, Igrita etc. All these groups had either a presence Romania or a related group which reached it. In Hungary, the most interesting area for the earliest samples is the very corner North-East of Miskolc! Same goes for Slovakia, its only the Eastern part of the country, plus Transcarpathia, which is the main area of interest. In Romania, the groups are more widespread and cover larger territories, but its the North West primarily for the earliest periods.

I posted the mape numerous times by now, the G?va core being depicted in the first image (Abb. 2) in red: :

From this publication from Eugen Rung (2011):
https://www.academia.edu/2409522/E_Rung_Der_Gáva_Stil_

G?va is quite specific in this respect, because it led the thrust into the Balkans, or better primarily their main daughter group, Belegis II-G?va did. Kyjatice to the West, ("Late Piliny" on the map is their predecessor, this is an early stage map), is more in Slovakia-Northern Central Hungary. I suspect they got E-V13 too, but they don't have to, and so far we got J2a from them.

Many old authors, long before the new archaeological finds or any genetic ones, proposed G?va as the Proto-Thracian culture. Its simply the best candidate for later Daco-Thracians, because the core culture in the Iron Age for the Dacians and Thracians is one archaeological koine, that is the one of Psenichevo-Basarabi, which largely developed from Channelled Ware, when the dust settled down after the turbulent transitional period form the LBA to the EIA.

Kristian Kristiansen at least referred to that theory as well in one of his older books:
https://books.google.de/books?id=zAY4we4LKQMC&printsec=frontcover&hl=de#v=onepage&q&f=false

p. 388, note group and migration from "C":

https://ibb.co/LrprcJc

Also, the Daco-Thracian sphere (Carpathian-Lower Danube), later covered first by Channelled Ware, then Psenichevo-Basarabi in the early Hallstatt phase, p. 64 (note that the Danube bent is the borderline to the West!):

https://ibb.co/T1dW2Th

And he is by no means the only one, there is a long tradition of scholars to attribute the Thracian/Daco-Thracian ethnolinguistic groups with G?va/Channelled Ware. You can quote as many linguistic splitters as you like, but that won't change the fact they had one genetic (in a biological and cultural sense) origin, which is basically Channelled Ware into Psenichevo-Basarabi. No serious scholar can deny the koine which developed in the Iron Age, with the typical repertoire. And this is what persisted into the historical period.

Quotation from Kristiansen, p. 387, which just confirms the results from numerous archaeologists working on actual material from the region:

By comparison with the slighter evidence of Celtic mercenaries in the Mediterranean, not to speak of their raids into Greece, we must in this case of systematically patterned evidence, ranging from weapons to personal dress, assume a movement of people, probably warrior groups/mercenaries, during the 13th century (BR D), followed by more massive migrations from Ha A1 onwards, as reflected by the later fibula types. This picture agrees well with other evidence of contacts during the 13th and 12th centuries.

There were two waves: First individuals and smaller groups, but then came the tribes down and burnt everything which stood in their way to the ground while marching through the Morava and into the Vardar Valley. And its these people, which also migrated the Danube down and created the Fluted Ware horizon and Knobbed Ware groups in Bulgaria - out of which Psenichevo grew, while out of Belegis II-G?va with a transition and new influences, Basarabi emerged.
And at that point we already have evidence, from the Iron Age, for Thracian and Dacian speakers respectively, from those regions. Same archaeological origin, going back, ultimately, to the G?va core zone in North Eastern Hungary, Eastern Slovakia, Transcarpathia and North Western/Western Romania in particular.
This is all East of the Danube, in the early phase pretty much of it is clearly at the Tisza and East of the Tisza, especially along the Romanian tributaries too.

To sum it up: Both E-V13 and J-L283 have a clear and by now fairly obvious background story in the Bronze Age. They come from two spheres of influence: Bell Beaker/West Pannonians vs Epi-Corded/ East Pannonian descendants of Cotofeni & Co, of which most had increased WHG ancestry. J-L283 and E-V13 were kind of the regional "governors" for these wider spread networks in the Balkans.

G?va also introduced intensified millet consumption in wide areas of the Balkans. This is the same kind of millet/millet fed pork diet which appears in Tollense, in the Urnfield period. You can read it up here, it was spread by G?va down to Greece in the LBA:
https://jaha.org.ro/index.php/JAHA/article/view/656

 

[Johane Derite]

We can see what type of relationship Italic and Albanian had if we do a deep dive into the ancient linguistic history of Albanian.

If we see exclusive shared lexicon between Albanian and different IE language groups, an interesting pattern emerges.

Albanian has ZERO shared exclusive isoglosses with the Italic group, and only ONE shared exclusive isogloss with the Italo-Celtic group, while it has a bit more with Celtic.

What this suggests is that Albanian in its ancient stage was very far away from the Italo-Celtic IE group, but had a few more contacts with Celtic at a later stage, when Italo-Celtic had broken up, but again comparatively not that much.

However, if we see the exclusive lexical isoglosses that are shared by Albanian and the Baltic group, we see that this is the highest group with which Albanian shares exclusive isoglosses with. This points to some closer sphere of contact, but if we see the earlier Balto-Slavic stage, we see that
it is a bit less, but still very high, meaning proto-Albanian was in sphere of contact at the time of the Balto-Slavic common period also (a long time ago). This also extends to the Germanic-Balto-Slavic common group.

If we see Albanian exclusive isoglosses with Greek, we see this is the second highest, but very low when it comes to previous stages, so from this it again emerges that Albanian was probably in a Greek sphere of contact at a later stage in Greek's history.

What emerges from this is that a very early proto-Albanian language group must have been somewhere where it could be in contact with the balto-slavic group before they broke up into baltic and slavic.

Matzinger has built upon this work of the isoglosses, by noting that Albanian has deeper grammatical features with Greek, meaning that proto-Albanian must have been a language group that was initially part of the Greek contact sphere, that then fell into the Balto-Slavic sphere, and later again the Greek one.

But very far away from Italo-Celtic and Italic throughout this whole period. This speaks against the East Alpine Block of Illyrian languages, which had a closer relationship to Italic (even autosomally plot like North-Italians).

 

[Johane Derite]

Channeled ware, which beings appearing in Albania for the first time around ~1200 BC, and is an invasive phenomena into Albania, Kosova, Troy etc, would have brought a new haplogroup with it, but also a new language most probably.

If Riverman's hypothesis that EV13's expansion happened with channeled ware is correct, then this is the time period from which EV13 should first appear in Albania (although I have written earlier about some possible middle bronze age EV13 branches).

These people would have had a different haplogroup, autosomal signal, and language, than the earlier established people of Albania and Dalmatia.

Nicholas Hammond connected this migration with the "Brygi" who appear sporadically in ancient sources, around Mati, Pelagonia, Epirus, etc.

But he wrote that the term "Brygi" was probably just a general ancient term referring to the invading northeners.

This migration of Brygi into Epirus and West Macedonia he argues also had a role in pushing Dorians and Thessali south.

So to those claiming that Albanian is a South Illyrian language, they should make up their mind which South Illyrians they mean, the South Illyrians that invaded Illyria with channeled ware, or that were there since the
earlier middle bronze age period with their Glasinac cousins in Bosnia.

Here there are already two differing ancestries and languages present in the "South Illyrian" space.

This quote is also interesting since it claims the Enchelei were also called the Sesarethi. This phenomenon of one tribe having multiple names may point to multiple languages being present among one region.

Channeled Ware language, pre-channeled ware language, matt-painted language, etc.

 

[Dibran]

One of the lineages ultimately has to be the language carrier (though R1b-Z2103 is ultimately responsible for all Balkanic IE IMO, but way earlier during early EBA), i didn't said Proto-Albanian (Early Middle Ages, but Proto-Albanoid instead, something earlier) but you didn't care reading about it because you just want to "ass-lick" Fustanella and his comrades so you can better fit in and show your Albanianism lol. Me claiming it comes as a result one of the most prominent Albanologists as Matzinger denying Albanian descending from Illyrian and instead presenting a new picture on Balkanic IE with Illyrian not even belonging to this group of languages and being instead of East Alpine Block. But, once more you want to present usual intrigues. You just go with the theory that Fustanella and his other comrades want to hear, you want to please them because it's easier for you.
There is one other strong candidate as well, R1b-Z2705, but it's hard to know how much present was before Justinian Plague/invasions.
Obviously you act like teenager girl who lost it's virginity if i mention anything related to rrenjet be it objective because it's your mental shelter there after broder said that your village spoke Slavic once upon a time.
I am not going to tell you, i have publicly posted here of course. I have a sub-clade which is found solely among Albanians. But, just because your dumb-evil intentive question, i will leave it open.
As for the rest, typical weak cheerleader girl behaviour lol. "I told you so, all E-V13 members Derite, Riverman, Aspurg, Hawk went completely insane". Both you and Fustanella complete the profile of a village sniffers and trash-talkers.

I don't care what anyone thinks of me. I've argued with all members on this forum if I don't agree. The difference is I don't do it like a whiny child like you.

Man stip raging. Get a girlfriend or something. Your temper tantrums don't make you seem any more effective than a whiny child. You're obviously wrong. We have defters my village spoke only Albanian unless you want to choke on Serbian sources for your information.

Broder was clearly full of shit. He didn't even know my specific village and made up a bunch of mumbo jumbo about my family coming Struma in Bulgaria lol. Clearly he was being a tro-ll.

And the fact you don't want to share with use what tour subclade is goes to show you probably haven't revealed it, because, a child like you who always wants to be right would have proven a point. Lol

You can run your mouth all you want, but you have never done more than criticize either projects efforts like a whiny girl and have not even contributed a hair of efforts towards growing this project and understanding Albanian origins and ethnogenesis. I've done more for this effort than you ever will. I put my money where my mouth is. You pout your mouth where your master is. Remember that.

You've spent more time sympathizing with Serbian trash who call your people slaves. Might as well get a Serbian passport.