Religion why are not u a muslim?

[Satori]

Ok I read the beginning and a few replies , I don`t feel like reading everything anyone posted , so do pardon me for missing anything.

Ok , first of all Muslima i think I know what you are trying to do. Perhaps you are trying to tell others about Islam and stuff , I am a muslim too ,but pardon me. This is a very wrong way to do it!

Just so you know, Moslema left the forum about halfway through the discussion. The discussion continued following her absence. :souka:

 

[Suki-Yaki]

errm~

ne ne , say what..??! eeeh heh heh heh ...

*backs off .. joins with the shadows ... and fades away .....*

 

[Maciamo]

You suppose someone who doesn`t believe in Islam will not believe in god , but that`s not true. Almost everyone has something they believe in (even if they don`t), naturally everyone supposes that they are right , just like us muslims. So it is kinda offending to assume we are the only ones right (same goes to you christians , jews , and all other religions)

Don't forget that a sizeable portion of Europeans (I'd say over 70%) are not religious, and many do not believe in god at all or have serious doubts. A poll on this forum revealed that about 1/3 of the members (from all the world) are atheist, agnostic or without religion.

And about some of you answering so cruelly about Islam. Islam is not a religion of war , and not a religion of peace. Islam is just a religion. What makes war and peace is good and bad people. When horrible crimes happen out somewhere in America or Europe we don`t go on blaming christianity , so I hope you wouldn`t blame Islam either...

I think it's important to realise when religion is the cause of a conflict and when it isn't. Christianity has had its good share of responsibility in some of history's bloodiest wars (numerous crusades, protestant-catholic wars, etc.). Christinianity did have an influence on starting the war in Iraq. It was one of the factors, along with Saddam poor human right record and economical interests, that eventually led to the invasion (Bush himself spoke of a "crusade against Islam").

So I think we can indeed blame Christianity for horrible crimes, and so can we for Islam too (especially since the late 20th century). The concept of Jihad being part and parcel of Islam, make this religion bear full responsibility for its disciplles' foolishness, like any other holy war with other religions.

 

[InnerVision]

salam....

Why do ppl with Islamic religion ALWAYS try to convince us that RELIGION is a way to explain everything kashii: LOGIC is not the same as RELIGION my dear friend, although you believe it is.You have to realise that not the whole world spins around Allah or God

Religion gives you the Code of Life : & every rational Human wants to Live with the Logic.

So Religion has to Be Logical otherwise It doesn't fit in the criteria to be called as Religion.

You sound like an atheist.You must know that the very WEAK BASE of Atheism i.e. Darwinism
is Being ridiculed everywhere.(check this ..Deception of Evolution by Harun yahya )Besides one must know the by-products of Darwinism i.e. Racism & fascism Which are a total harm to Society's Peace.

For more information on this topic check this :
What is Fascim ??__The Bloody Idealogy of Darwinism
Refutation of Darwinism
I had a long discussion with a gang of atheists(racists) ; & right now they are dumbfounded .Click the link & help them out if you can .I don't want to repeat that discussion again. (actually exausted .. 8)
Heres the link: In the Year 20,000 __

You really think we messed up against the Nazi's eh?!

Not at all .Nazi's were completely on the Wrong side . These were the after-effects of the war which were of no value to any Nation at all.

I'm not certain I follow InnerVision's post.

1)....Certainly if everyone feared Allah to the point that they behaved perfectly morally we would have no violence or crime (Kinda like M. Night Shayamalan's The Villiage). But that's not the world we live in. What do we do with those of us who don't want to live in this fear?

2)....I am still not a Muslim.

1)...This is the Only solution .... & You know very well that majority of the people is trying to solve the issue .... but haven't yet found a single way out. So , we have to inculcate a sense of Responsibility (..if not fear ..) within ourselves & within others that one day Everyone has to be answerable for his/her Own Deeds.That will keep everyone on the Right path of showing Good-Value in one's Life... ain't it ..??

2)...This is your Personal Issue .Your Journey to explore is highly appreciated though.

Islam is not a religion of war , and not a religion of peace. Islam is just a religion. What makes war and peace is good and bad people.

Islam is the Religion which tells one how to live in Peace. & therefore it appreciates Good People & Eradicates Bad people.

Here i wanna tell some basics: (about War & Peace)

Human being Created & then Given Knowledge of the Things.He was made superior to every other Creature because he was bestowed with intelect & Will .And he was given more Liberty as compared to others. All cretures were ordered to Bow before Human.

Here the Satan got Jealous . He(satan_he was wise) told 'The Creator' (The All_Wise) that this Creature (human) will be going to cause chaos & warin the world So, i'm not going to bow before a creature made up of mud ...(actually he was proud of himself..).Allah (All_knowing) ridiculed the satan & he (satan ) took the permission of diverting Human from the Right path ( of Peace & Exploration of The Universe to Praise the Greatness of their God) .He was allowed. Human was told that from now on satan is your open enemy , he(satan) will guide you to the war ( to prove his point) .At the same time , Allah ( All-wise) used him(satan) as a tool to test the Faith of human:To differentiate between Good & Evil beings.

Allah ( All-merciful) showed his Love for the human beings when he send Messengers & the Prophets (Peace be upon them ) to show people the Right Path ( of Peace & exploration ) by inculcating in them a sense of Fear of the Hereafter accountability. & he continued to send them till the Last Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him ) When He thought that now the Message is Completed. ( by message i mean to say __ The purpose of Life & __ The Code of life__ Which in turn mean ........How to Live in Peace & How to Explore this Universe & How to Explore one's self .....& what is the Destination....?? )

So, my friend by telling this whols story i meant to say that This is the Peace for which Religion(anti_satanism) works & Islam is the Religion which is selected for this purpose by Allah & the War ,,(until & unless for Peace__Jihad__the War against the anti-Peace people __don't you think you are a part of it right now in the sense of words ..??) is the Product of satan mind.

Conclusion:Islam is the Religion for Peace. (click the link for some info. about history )

quote:

The concept of Jihad being part and parcel of Islam, make this religion bear full responsibility for its disciplles' foolishness, like any other holy war with other religions.

I have told you what is Jihad ...its the War against Evil.
there are three levels of Jihad:
To eradicate Evil ... (main purpose of Religion)
1..One must use his Tongue against evil.
2..One must use his Writings against evil.
3..Its the Duty of every muslim to Fight for the elimination of evil mentality .. (remember that officer who burst a dead Palestinian girl ... & got free ....?? )
4...once in the war kill the enemies in the battle-field (only the military people) .No woman .No child .No old.

Out of all the faiths that involve the Hossanah/Yewah/Allah deity, I personally admire the Muslim faith the most.

Jewish faith is a close second though.

I like the faiths because of the texts on them. The holy scriptures. I really find it interesting on how the old testament, and the korran seem to talk about similar things. The Muslim faith mentions prophets that are acknowledged in the old testament, and the old testament mentions people that are also in Islamic texts. The correllation is really interesting to read.

I also like the old Jewish and Islamic texts when regarding Jesus. VERY interesting to read.

Appreciated.

The Coran does not teach people to murder others in cold blood, falsely saying God told them to. The Coran teaches to love one another.

Apppreciated. Very True you are ....

don't believe in god, or i find it very hard to believe.
i believe in science, evolution.

See above ..& check the links...

I don't believe in god, because it is irrational and can be disproved by logic (depending on how one imagine it).

The problem of monotheist religion (only one god) is that they end up being intolerant and narrow-minded.

That's a simple question. I'll give you a simple answer.

I'm not a muslim and I can tell you why. A good friend of mine has been beaten up by muslims (Yes, more then one), for just being a jew. Offcourse the situation in Isra?l can piss people off, but what does a 18 year old in Europe got to do with it?

..

Never take an example from a Loser.

And, I am not a Muslim because I am not part of any religion and I believe that neither god nor any supernatural beigns nor santa claus exists. Personally, I am not a very big fan of religion because relgion is about believing and not asking questions and I like ask questions and know the truth.

Questions are always appreciated ...Only a higher Mentality can compell one to First look for the Question & then Look for the Answers ......& this is the Religion all about .All it wants from you is to be a Dynamic Thinker as if there is no question there will be no answer & thus no Progress & in turn no Exploration.Purpose will not be fulfilled which goes against the religion.

being a moslem does not exactly mean believing islam by mind and soul.

What exactly are you trying to say ...??Sorry i can't make any sense ....

Well, I don't know that much about Islam, pretty much all I know is what the mass media tells me: supposedly, Islam is a very backwards, cruel and patriarchic religion. That's pretty much the gist of it, isn't it?

moslema, is it true that women are considered second-rate citizens in Islam, for example, and what are the reasons for this?

Thanks God ..Moslema was here to answer.

I am curious. What do Muslims think of Jews and Christians? I haven't read the Koran, but do Muslims think of Jews and Christians as better than atheists or the same?

Check this : "People of the Book" & "The Muslims"

Sorry for such a long reply ..it might be difficult for you to read ... but if you do it will answer some of your questions.

Take care.

 

[RockLee]

salam....



You sound like an atheist.You must know that the very WEAK BASE of Atheism i.e. Darwinism
is Being ridiculed everywhere.(check this ..Deception of Evolution by Harun yahya )Besides one must know the by-products of Darwinism i.e. Racism & fascism Which are a total harm to Society's Peace.

I had a long discussion with a gang of atheists(racists) ; & right now they are dumbfounded

I'm an atheist...but does that make me a racist??And does it mean that I believe in darwinism?? You seem to paint every atheist off as a racist, and in the way u post you think you are right about your religion. kashii:

Islam is the Religion which tells one how to live in Peace. & therefore it appreciates Good People & Eradicates Bad people.

You seem to use Peace a lot...but eradicating everyone who does not seem to fit the profile of the "muslim" doesn't sound like peace to me.

Never take an example from a Loser.

what the hell do you mean with that???please elaborate...kashii:

 

[George Bush]

Remember, address the issue being discussed, not the person. No personal attacks!

Point taken Satori. Reality checks never go astray
Strange how history keeps repeating itself, and how quickly people forget!
I'll make it a point to remember your point

 

[bossel]

So Religion has to Be Logical otherwise It doesn't fit in the criteria to be called as Religion.

Religion is based on belief, hence it is inherently illogical.

You sound like an atheist.You must know that the very WEAK BASE of Atheism i.e. Darwinism
is Being ridiculed everywhere.

Everywhere you look maybe. Perhaps you should look somewhere else than on Harun Yahya. Eg. here.
Evolution is a scientific theory. The details are still being worked out, but the overall concept is coherent.

Islam is the Religion which tells one how to live in Peace. & therefore it appreciates Good People & Eradicates Bad people.

Eradicating "bad" people does not really sound peaceful.

Conclusion:Islam is the Religion for Peace.

Conclusion proven wrong by history.

Even the Q'uran itself does not really sound peaceful: "As if they had never lived there! So away with Madyan (Midian)! As away with Thamud! (All these nations were destroyed)." (from Surat 11)
Destroying whole nations? What a peace!

 

[No-name]

Thank you Bossel, you are totally on point--but unfortunately now I have less clarity.
Farmad had started something intelligent back in that really long post, but the longer these other posts go on the less and less I know about Islam. Why should I become a Muslim?(- or why am not I a Muslim?) I haven't the first clue from these lasts posts.

Can a muslim answer in one clear sentence?

 

[InnerVision]

(1)...I'm an atheist...but does that make me a racist??And does it mean that I believe in darwinism?? You seem to paint every atheist off as a racist, and in the way u post you think you are right about your religion. kashii:


(2) ...You seem to use Peace a lot...but eradicating everyone who does not seem to fit the profile of the "muslim" doesn't sound like peace to me.


(3)what the hell do you mean with that???please elaborate...kashii:

(1) Well if you don't believr in Darwinism & Still an atheist .. Then How do you think Life Came into Being ... ??
& if you see on my words i used the word Besides , to mention the harmful effects of being an atheist (Most of them Believe in Darwinism & thus on Racism __wanna hear about you ...?? )

(2) ..Well Remember that Officer ..Huh ...??...Don't you want to Remove that Mentality ....i.e. That would be a Step towards Peace. ain't it ...??

(3) ..Take the Pain of Reading the Quote above My words in the Last Post.

(1)..Religion is based on belief, hence it is inherently illogical.


(2)...Everywhere you look maybe. Perhaps you should look somewhere else than on Harun Yahya. Eg. here.
Evolution is a scientific theory. The details are still being worked out, but the overall concept is coherent.


(3) ...Eradicating "bad" people does not really sound peaceful.


(4) ..Conclusion proven wrong by history.

(5) ..Destroying whole nations? What a peace!

(1)..Yes Belief & Faith are the Pivot of The Religion & the Faith is necessary to Find the answers ... As all of our Modern Science(Logic) is Proving the Faith on an Omnipotent Power. Educate yourself with the Modern Science first ...!!!Actually we do not have any other option so we have to Believe ..ain't it Logical ..??

(2) ..If you still believe in Darwinism ; I WOULD SAY you are dumb . i'm sorry to say this though ....

Look at this: Deception Of Evolution :

A very interesting dilemma emerges at this point: DNA can replicate itself only with the help of some specialized proteins (enzymes). However, the synthesis of these enzymes can be realized only by the information coded in DNA. As they both depend on each other, they have to exist at the same time for replication. This brings the scenario that life originated by itself to a deadlock. Prof. Leslie Orgel, an evolutionist of repute from the University of San Diego, California, confesses this fact in the September 1994 issue of the Scientific American magazine:

It is extremely improbable that proteins and nucleic acids, both of which are structurally complex, arose spontaneously in the same place at the same time. Yet it also seems impossible to have one without the other. And so, at first glance, one might have to conclude that life could never, in fact, have originated by chemical means.

No doubt, if it is impossible for life to have originated from natural causes, then it has to be accepted that life was "created" in a supernatural way. This fact explicitly invalidates the theory of evolution, whose main purpose is to deny creation.

& At this :

IT?S IMPOSSIBLE FOR LIFE?S BUILDING
BLOCKS TO FORM BY THEMSELVES :

Protein molecules are the building blocks of life, and even the simplest one is so complex that it could never form accidentally. An average protein consists of 288 amino acids of twelve different types with 10 raise to power 300 (an astronomical number with 300 zeros) possible different sequencing combinations. But only one of these combinations can produce the relevant protein. All the other combinations are dysfunctional, or even harmful, chains of amino acids.

The probability of any such proteins to form by chance is 1 in 10raise to power 300. And in mathematics, any probability smaller than 10raised to power 50 is considered an impossibility.

Yet a protein consisting of 288 amino acids is a simple affair when compared to the hugely complex proteins consisting of thousands of amino acids, in living beings. Applying the same probability calculation to these protein molecules makes the word impossible inadequate to describe their forming by chance.

But examining at the next stage of life formation reveals that proteins, by themselves, mean nothing much. Mycoplasma Hominis H39 is one of the most primitive bacteria known to man, but consists of 600 different proteins. In its case, we would have to apply probability calculations to 600 different proteins, and the results they would yield would be simply beyond impossible.

Regardless of how much time we granted for amino acids to form proteins, they never could form by chance. The American geologist William Stokes concedes this reality in his book, Essentials of Earth History where he states that were the surface of the universe?s billions of planets covered with a watery concentrate for a duration of billions of years, still proteins could never have formed.(Fred Hoyle, Chandra Wickramasinghe, Evolution from Space, New York, Simon & Schuster, 1984, p. 148.)

About the probability of the Cytochrome-C protein, necessary for life, to form by chance, he says:
The likely probability of the formation of a cytochrome-C sequence is zero? To accept the alternative?that some metaphysical powers beyond our definition must have effected its formation?isn?t appropriate to the goals of science. Therefore, we have to look into the first hypothesis. (. W.R. Bird, The Origin of Species Revisited, Nashville, Thomas Nelson Co., 1991, p. 305.)

This statement reveals clearly that evolutionist scientists consider the scientifically proven belief in ?zero probability? as a scientific approach. In reality, principles of both logic and science demand that if a particular event has two possible explanations, where one has zero chance of being correct, then, the other explanation must be true. When principles of logic are applied to the zero probability of the Cytochrome-C protein?s forming by chance, it?s certain that it has been consciously made?in other words, created. This is the scientific, logical, and rational conclusion.

The materialist ideology forbids the acknowledgment of a Creator therefore compelling materialist scientists to reject scientific facts that contradict their philosophy. As a result, such scientists have no qualms in forsaking scientific facts that go against their grain. Instead, they try to impose their philosophies on the masses, which is why the of materialist scientists? integrity and trustworthiness are questionable.

(3) ...If you are really sincere for attaining Peace .... you have to Remove the Evil Mentality. ain't it ..??

(4) ...Well just for the Honest Information ..check this ...Islam Has Brought Peace and Harmony to the Middle East All Through History
Its just one example.

(5) ..Only & only those nations were Destroyed by Allah (The All_Mighty) which were not on the Right Track .Moving away from the actual Purpose of their Lives , which i have mentioned earlier. Whats the Problem in that ...??
The Creator wanted them to do Good to this Universe .They were astrayed & therefore Eradicated for the betterment of society.

Can a muslim answer in one clear sentence?

Well actually as i 've said earlier it is your Personal Issue .So, if you are really sincere with your quest then you have to look for your answers all by yourself.

 

[bossel]

the harmful effects of being an atheist (Most of them Believe in Darwinism & thus on Racism __wanna hear about you ...?? )

Thinking that racism exists does not make you a racist.

(2) ..Well Remember that Officer ..Huh ...??...Don't you want to Remove that Mentality ....i.e. That would be a Step towards Peace. ain't it ...??

Let me guess, remove that mentality by killing him? I smell your peacefulness.

As all of our Modern Science(Logic) is Proving the Faith on an Omnipotent Power. Educate yourself with the Modern Science first ...!!!Actually we do not have any other option so we have to Believe ..ain't it Logical ..??

All of our modern science? Are you sure, that you are educated?
I'm not really sure of myself, but I think, reading 3 science newsletters (New Scientist, American Scientist, Explorator) per week is a pretty good start.

(2) ..If you still believe in Darwinism ; I WOULD SAY you are dumb . i'm sorry to say this though ....

I don't believe. I simply don't have the capability to believe. I suppose, the religious centre in my frontal lobe does not work properly. (But I do not believe that you actually are sorry.) I can estimate probabilities, though. The probabilities carried by evolution theory seem much greater than any creationist stuff.

Prof. Leslie Orgel, an evolutionist of repute from the University of San Diego, California, confesses this fact in the September 1994 issue of the Scientific American magazine:

It is extremely improbable that proteins and nucleic acids, both of which are structurally complex, arose spontaneously in the same place at the same time. Yet it also seems impossible to have one without the other. And so, at first glance, one might have to conclude that life could never, in fact, have originated by chemical means.

No doubt, if it is impossible for life to have originated from natural causes, then it has to be accepted that life was "created" in a supernatural way. This fact explicitly invalidates the theory of evolution, whose main purpose is to deny creation.

Educated, hmmm? "Extremely improbable" & "seems impossible" become "is impossible"?
Funny, this. I discussed this topic usually with some Christian fundamentalists from the US. You're the 1st Muslim, yet you use the same crappy reasoning these Christian creationists do.
1st you take texts out of context, 2nd you read stuff into it which is not there. Crap! Misleading, if not outright lying (which should be forbidden by your morals, or not?).

If you would have read the original text by Leslie Orgel you would have seen his conclusion, which reads:

"Whether RNA arose spontaneously or replaced some earlier genetic system, its development was probably the watershed event in the development of life. It very likely led to the synthesis of proteins, the formation of DNA and the emergence of a cell that became life's last common ancestor. The precise events giving rise to the RNA world remain unclear. As we have seen, investigators have proposed many hypotheses, but evidence in favor of each of them is fragmentary at best. The full details of how the RNA world, and life, emerged may not be revealed in the near future. Nevertheless, as chemists, biochemists and molecular biologists cooperate on ever more ingenious experiments, they are sure to fill in many missing parts of the puzzle."
A supernatural way? Natural causes impossible? Crap!

The probability of any such proteins to form by chance is 1 in 10raise to power 300. And in mathematics, any probability smaller than 10raised to power 50 is considered an impossibility.

Of course, it is almost impossible for a complete protein to form out of thin air. Oh, my! Has nobody ever told you that proteins are already evolved? They didn't spring suddenly into existence but there very probably were earlier less complex forms.

Regardless of how much time we granted for amino acids to form proteins, they never could form by chance. The American geologist William Stokes concedes this reality in his book, Essentials of Earth History

A geologist? Probably the authority on evolution. Since I don't have so much time, I won't check this one whether you again try to mislead us. But, anyway, a geologist?

This statement reveals clearly that evolutionist scientists consider the scientifically proven belief in ?zero probability? as a scientific approach.

Logic? "Look into" does not equal "believe in".

In reality, principles of both logic and science demand that if a particular event has two possible explanations, where one has zero chance of being correct, then, the other explanation must be true.

Our expert in logic at work again? If something is highly improbable, it's still not impossible.

(3) ...If you are really sincere for attaining Peace .... you have to Remove the Evil Mentality. ain't it ..??

By killing all people I suspect of that evil mentality? Peace on Earth, then. I suspect all human beings.

(4) ...Well just for the Honest Information ..check this ...Islam Has Brought Peace and Harmony to the Middle East All Through History
Its just one example.

Before that "peace", didn't they have quite some wars?

(5) ..Only & only those nations were Destroyed by Allah (The All_Mighty) which were not on the Right Track .Moving away from the actual Purpose of their Lives , which i have mentioned earlier. Whats the Problem in that ...??
The Creator wanted them to do Good to this Universe .They were astrayed & therefore Eradicated for the betterment of society.

Whole nations? Including new born (or even un-born) babies? Your Allah appears as just the same mass-murderous god as that one from the Bible.

I decide my purpose in life myself. I don't see why I should follow some ancient book. If some people choose to believe in supernatural beings, then be it. I won't hinder them. But if they want to eradicate me for not following their book of choice, they won't find peace with me. I do unto others as they do unto me (but individually, not collectively).



BTW, if a protein is impossible to come into being out of the blue, how probable is it, that such a complex being like Allah just pops into existence?

 

[No-name]

Bossel, you do a wonderful job of repudiating InnerVision arguments point by point. I just kinda read it and shrugged. There are lots of similar arguments in the United States by creationists who would like it creationism taught in school. They can be tenacious and convincing unless someone takes the time and effort to disect what they actually are saying. Good job.

The God theory begins with God and ends with God. (After all, he is the alpha and omega) It is dogmatic. Proof requires some kind of analytical gymnastics that I am vastly unprepared for. I believe God created the world in six days. I can't prove it. and it doesn't make me a Muslim. I think my sons should be taught evolution in school, and creationism only in Sunday school (if that?) This is an article of faith, unsuported by science, unprovable and not convincing to those far from God. In the end like the copernican system, it is probably not worth fighting over.

Innervision: I visit the website which was wonderful and had a great conclusion. I agree that both sides should try to be moderate and tolerant. I just need clarification on a couple of points:

"History reveals that Islam is the only system of belief to offer a just, tolerant and compassionate way of government in the Middle East." I doubt however that Isreal would ever accept an Islamic government.

The site paints a rosy picture of Ottoman rule and the pax Ottomana. Was the only reason the Ottomans were tolerant was that they were muslim? Weren't the Ottomans rather hard on their conquered people- especially in the 18th and 19th centuries? Wasn't the empire invovled in international slave trading? Weren't they reviled by most Arabs? (The British seemed to have quite an easy time fermenting an uprising.) And during WWI, didn't they murder a million and a half Armenians? Can't you be tolerant and fair without being Muslim?

 

[RockLee]

Good post Bossel...oh my...like I said before, muslim ppl try to explain everything by the "holy book" and see ppl who don't believe as lesser and should be eradicated...InnerVision, you make absolutely no sense and post articles EVERY time that don't even have sense...you are all so brainwashed into believing everything the book says.If it was written in the koran that all non-islam ppl should be eradicated you ppl would even do it.. :souka: cause it's in the book.
I'm starting to believe that Islam is not a so peacefully and rather rascistal towards other religions.

(1) Well if you don't believr in Darwinism & Still an atheist .. Then How do you think Life Came into Being ... ??
& if you see on my words i used the word Besides , to mention the harmful effects of being an atheist (Most of them Believe in Darwinism & thus on Racism __wanna hear about you ...?? )

so darwinists are rascists???Oh boy, please get some sanity into you !!!And don't post crap like that kashii:


InnerVision..if you come to this forum solely to talk nonsense and spray stuff about islam, and don't post in other things, I recommend another forum about Islam We're kind of fed up with ppl trying to make a point, but end up with insulting and such and rediculing others beliefs, opinions. Thx

 

[cicatriz esp]

I think that most of us can agree that this thread has had the opposite effect than intended by the original poster, mostly due to the arguments of the evangelicals.

 

[InnerVision]

Educated, hmmm? "Extremely improbable" & "seems impossible" become "is impossible"?
Funny, this. I discussed this topic usually with some Christian fundamentalists from the US. You're the 1st Muslim, yet you use the same crappy reasoning these Christian creationists do.
1st you take texts out of context, 2nd you read stuff into it which is not there. Crap! Misleading, if not outright lying (which should be forbidden by your morals, or not?).

If you would have read the original text by Leslie Orgel you would have seen his conclusion, which reads:

"Whether RNA arose spontaneously or replaced some earlier genetic system, its development was probably the watershed event in the development of life. It very likely led to the synthesis of proteins, the formation of DNA and the emergence of a cell that became life's last common ancestor. The precise events giving rise to the RNA world remain unclear. As we have seen, investigators have proposed many hypotheses, but evidence in favor of each of them is fragmentary at best. The full details of how the RNA world, and life, emerged may not be revealed in the near future. Nevertheless, as chemists, biochemists and molecular biologists cooperate on ever more ingenious experiments, they are sure to fill in many missing parts of the puzzle."
A supernatural way? Natural causes impossible? Crap!

Attention Ladies & Gentleman ....!!!

I woulld Like all of you to see the Reference the Guy has Mentioned .....& Match it with the Words i have said Earlier ...

See this Extract ...this is from the Same site that the guy has mentioned ...

From such findings we can infer that our last common ancestor stored genetic information in nucleic acids that specified the composition of all needed proteins. It also relied on proteins to direct many of the reactions required for self-perpetuation. Hence, the central problem of origin-of-life research can be refined to ask, By what series of chemical reactions did this interdependent system of nucleic acids and proteins come into being?

Anyone trying to solve this puzzle immediately encounters a paradox. Nowadays nucleic acids are synthesized only with the help of proteins, and proteins are synthesized only if their corresponding nucleotide sequence is present. It is extremely improbable that proteins and nucleic acids, both of which are structurally complex, arose spontaneously in the same place at the same time. Yet it also seems impossible to have one without the other. And so, at first glance, one might have to conclude that life could never, in fact, have originated by chemical means.

In the late 1960s Carl R. Woese of the University of Illinois, Francis Crick, then at the Medical Research Council in England, and I (working at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in San Diego) independently suggested a way out of this ..........

Now you got to know that my religion doesn't allow me To Lie & i try not to .......... THis is this Guy who tried to mislead you & he must be checked for it as he can do it again.

 

[RockLee]

look, you say he is wrong, what makes u so sure that your religion is right??Now did you read what I said about posting something else besides religious things??We're all kind of fed up with it.as you can see like I posted somewhere earlier Religion is mostly at the base of wars...we are having an arguement right now, because we believe different things.BECAUSE OF RELIGION !!! So it's safe to presume that religion is mostly at the base of disputes,wars,fights....

 

[InnerVision]

(1) ..Thinking that racism exists does not make you a racist.

(2) ..Let me guess, remove that mentality by killing him? I smell your peacefulness.

(3) ...All of our modern science? Are you sure, that you are educated?
I'm not really sure of myself, but I think, reading 3 science newsletters (New Scientist, American Scientist, Explorator) per week is a pretty good start.

(4) ....Of course, it is almost impossible for a complete protein to form out of thin air. Oh, my! Has nobody ever told you that proteins are already evolved? They didn't spring suddenly into existence but there very probably were earlier less complex forms.

(5) ...A geologist? Probably the authority on evolution. Since I don't have so much time, I won't check this one whether you again try to mislead us. But, anyway, a geologist?

(6) ...Before that "peace", didn't they have quite some wars?


(7) ...Whole nations? Including new born (or even un-born) babies? Your Allah appears as just the same mass-murderous god as that one from the Bible.

I decide my purpose in life myself. I don't see why I should follow some ancient book. If some people choose to believe in supernatural beings, then be it. I won't hinder them. But if they want to eradicate me for not following their book of choice, they won't find peace with me. I do unto others as they do unto me (but individually, not collectively).

(8) ..BTW, if a protein is impossible to come into being out of the blue, how probable is it, that such a complex being like Allah just pops into existence?

(1) ...& then you know it very well that Racism is Based on Darwinism .If there were no Darwinism then there could be no racist yelling that ..."During the Evolutionary Process some races Left behind & this is me who is superior to every other " ....<---This is the Bottom Line of all racists . A Total menace to the Society.

Sad to know that some of you do not know that Fact.

For a Better insight check this ..Read it & Comprehend each & every word.
Fascism: The Bloody Ideology of Darwinism

Fascism is an ideology that has brought great disasters to humanity. Not only has it caused millions of people to be killed and tortured simply because of their race, but it has also attempted to abolish all human values. The main purpose of the book is to present various fascist tendencies which appear under different methods and guises, and expose their real origins and objectives. The book also attempts to tear down the mask of fascism, and reveal that fascism is definitely an anti-religionist system..

& Now Put some Sanity into Your Brainwashed Minds .


(2) ...This is your own thinking i never said so ...!!
i told you the Levels of Jihad ...
First try to teach him using tongue & writings ...
Get him admitted in a Psychitry hospital .....( i am more concerned about his mental Health as i am a Medical Student ...)
& then Let Bossel Decide what would he do when that Officer tries to kill someone Closer to Bossel ........ You would Kill him Definitely ..you would never let a maniac kill your own Relative.

(3) ...Fathers of Modern Science BeLieve in God aswell .... don't you know ...???

(4) ...Do you know the Mechanism of Protein Synthesis .....???
..I doubt you have no idea ... & mind you .. you are talking to a Medical Student .... i would be very Glad to know what do you think how The First Building Block of Life came into Being ... ?? After you tell then i would tell you some Basics of Biochemistry ...

(5) ...Read the Complete Text ... & Check the Reference ..& try to comprehend in which context he was concluding the fact that How less is the Probability of Life coming into being all by itself .

(6) .... Watch the Difference between the Plight of people before Muslims & after that .... uptil the time crusades begin.

(7) ...noone is trying to eradicate you ...Just come out of your Paranoid ...
As you do not Believe in God .... then Please let me know about some Basic Questions of Life ....
Your Origin .....??
WhaT are you doing here ...??
What is the purpose of your Life ?? ( is it eating , sleeping & having sex ...?? )
Why you try to solve mystries ...??
what is Death ...??
What happens after Death ..??
What is Life all about ..??

(8) .... are you trying to say that Allah would be made up of Proteins ...??You are dumb ..& Now i'm not sorry at all ...

Allah is a Potential ....

He is All-Wise ......Absolute .
He creted all the Creation out of Nothing ....or .... out of Something that Human mind is unable to Find out ...How ...??
We know that He exists bEcause my own ( your aswell) Existence is the Best Indicator of His Existence ..... & Besides all the Phenomenon that have occured (Origin Of Life ..) & which are occuring now could never be possible without Him.
it is HE who has Created this Harmony so that we can Ponder Over the Facts about the Universe.
He is in the TimeLessness .....& he Knows Everything (All-Knowing)

So, it would be Dumb to take him as an Entity just Like us .

look, you say he is wrong, what makes u so sure that your religion is right??Now did you read what I said about posting something else besides religious things??We're all kind of fed up with it.as you can see like I posted somewhere earlier Religion is mostly at the base of wars...we are having an arguement right now, because we believe different things.BECAUSE OF RELIGION !!! So it's safe to presume that religion is mostly at the base of disputes,wars,fights....

I was Just Answering ..I never tried to offend but you did ...

You don't have any religion ... & Now
i want to hear answers from an atheist ..i.e.What they are upto ...??
Answer some simple Basic Questions Of lIfe.

 

[RockLee]

you're inbelievable...please just find some other RELIGION related forum, and go insult ppl there !!! kashii:

 

[InnerVision]

SALAM..!!

Good post Bossel...oh my...like I said before, muslim ppl try to explain everything by the "holy book" and see ppl who don't believe as lesser and should be eradicated...InnerVision, you make absolutely no sense and post articles EVERY time that don't even have sense...you are all so brainwashed into believing everything the book says.

(1) ..If it was written in the koran that all non-islam ppl should be eradicated you ppl would even do it.. :souka: cause it's in the book.
I'm starting to believe that Islam is not a so peacefully and rather rascistal towards other religions.


(2) ..so darwinists are rascists???Oh boy, please get some sanity into you !!!And don't post crap like that kashii:


(3) ..InnerVision..if you come to this forum solely to talk nonsense and spray stuff about islam, and don't post in other things, I recommend another forum about Islam We're kind of fed up with ppl trying to make a point, but end up with insulting and such and rediculing others beliefs, opinions. Thx

(1) ...Firs thing is ...Qu'ran is not the Book only For muslims ; Its the Book for every Rational Human Being & To you aswell if you are able to comprehend what it tries to Convey ... ....Read it & then Decide anything about it.Otherwise Be Silent ..Thank You.

(2) ...Check the Link ..& then Refer to me i will give you Many More Evidences.

(3) ...Well ...i will try to post in other topics but right now i'm busy with many other things & btw if i sound Harsh it would be in return to your Insulting replies.I usually don't try to insult anyone but dumb who do not know they are dumb.

i can be wrong but my Religion can't be. We as muslims don't boast like the Jews that we are Innocent & we will not be answerable for our deeds.This is wrong if i do anything wrong , i will be answerable as i am an ordinary Human who can commit sins .So, take me optimistically not pessimistically .Iam your well-wisher though i know you think you do not need any ..Take Care.

 

[EscaFlowne]

I've read this thread from time to time, :souka: And certain things should be thought about....At disregard this, I shall not get into this.

:souka:

 

[RockLee]

Innervision read my post...when I said things about insulting I meant exactly the thing you mention everytime...the only "dumb" person around here seems to be you not getting the message.

I believe what I want, I don't nead preaching from you or anybody else, if you believe everything they told you that's good for you, but don't call off being an atheist or someone who doesn't believe the sappy stories you believe in to be a rascist, dumb person or misinformed.You think there is a god etc..I don't.I have my own opinion about life, and I especially don't preaching from you or any other muslim trying to spread the word.I don't mean this in an insulting way, but to think and assume you are so right + you are trying so hard to prove to us god excists is getting annoying.

Oh and to me the whole idea of god who created man sound like one big pile of bullcrap, but do I call you an idiot or a dumb person for believing this?If you have an opinion about it, tell it, but don't go off assuming you are the one that's right, and we are dumb ppl who don't know the truth, because you don't even have 1 bit of evidence that indicates there is a god.And you'll never be able to prove it either.