- Reaction score
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- mtDNA haplogroup
2) R1b-U106. It could be envisaged that L11 crossed by sea from the Balkans to western Iberia, and that the Proto-Celtic R1b-P312 (aka S116) first appeared in south-western Iberia and spread with the Beaker folk from there. But then what of the other main subclade of L11, namely the Proto-Germanic U106 (S21) ? How did it end up in northern Europe if R1b-L11 migrated by sea to Iberia ? The centre of genetic diversity of R1b-U106 clearly lies between the Benelux and Denmark.
4) A successful large-scale, organised maritime invasion of Iberia from the Balkans is highly improbable. It would take thousands of well-armed soldiers to invade a densely settled place like the Atlantic coast of Neolithic Iberia. If the R1b people were numerous and powerful enough to do it, why not continue to Central Europe or even take over the whole Italian peninsula ? Why seek the furthest possible place as a launching pad to conquer all Western Europe ? That just doesn't make any sense.
I agree with your general premise but not to the point that I would say no R1b (of any kind) was involved with Bell Beaker folks. I particularly agree with your points 2 and 4.
The distribution patterns of R1b-L11 subclades fits more of an overland east to west expansion (versus Mediterranean) and the germ-line TMRCA estimates fit nicely with Italo-Celtic and pre-Germanic expansions.
However, I do not necessarily rule out that R1b was in the latter period Bell Beakers migrations from Eastern/Hungarian Cspel Beaker folks.
Desideri's study of dental traits led her to the "reflux" west to central and then back to the west again Beaker movement theory. As I've noted on other forums, she may have been mistaken the "reflux" for what really was a "break through" of Yamanized male lineages moving out of the Central Europe and from the Danube.
Have you considered the latter Beaker phases in the west really being a Yamanized folk with new male lineages brought from Cspel Beaker/Corded Ware Hungarian/Czech area?
The Chalcolithic from the Balkans to the west were of the technology called the "Carpatho-Balkan Metallurgy Province" (CBPM). The CBMP collapsed and was replaced by the "Circumpontic Metallurgy Province" (CPM). The Maykops practiced CPM and may have introduced it to the Yamanaya as it made its way west. Some people disagree with Amzallag but he thinks the advancements in the smelting process were key to CMP's expansion. The early smelting by the Western Beakers was not advanced and not of the CMP type. However, by about 2400 BC, Amzallag thinks Rio Tinto received the new smelting capabilities. I think this could have just been the extension "break through" of Yamanaya-ized people westward. The Beaker pots were made by the women anyway and may be confusing people. All Beaker folks were not a like.
In fact, Desideri noted that her Czech mixed study group showed that there were differences among the females between Eastern Beakers, Corded Ware and Unetice. However, she noted the male dental traits were homogenous among the three groups in the Czech digs.
Of course, none of this means that multiple waves of R1b-L11 types didn't drive across France and the Alpine area into Iberia and the British Isles. The first could have come with a latter and new kind of Beaker folks that hit Rio Tinto and Wessex. If I remember right, Wessex had ties with Unetice.... different pots, but maybe the same male lineages, trade networking and metalworking?