Politics Will Russia Attack Ukraine?

It became obvious to me, they don't just push all Ukrainian males from 18-60 into military service, they also keep them as hostages. And the Western media just report about the men "staying back to fight". Really? As if 100 % of the Ukrainian men would be willing to sacrifice themselves for the Selenski regime and dying as cannon fodder! Nobody seems to care about all those people being pressed into service, many against their will. There were already chaotic scenes on the borders and the women won't tellt he truth, because they are afraid about what might happen to their husbands and sons. The Western "free press" doesn't report those incidents and situation properly at all, they only portray Ukrainian men as willing to fight and die for that regime. This kind of propaganda, by the leftist media in the West, how everything being phased within hours and no dissenting voices allowed any more, is quite telling about the state of our media and democracy.

Similarly, the Ukrainian regime deliberately delays the evacuation of civilians, so they can use them as human shields and delay the Russian attack. They play on time, to re-enforce their positions, regroup their military units and wait for weapons and an escalation which might bring Western powers into the war. This kind of dirty war is obviously the only military strategy they can apply to win, if they are unwilling to accept any political compromise with Russia, which seems to be the case. But it just shows how both sides don't care for the civilian lifes and structures, the Ukrainians even less, because the Russians wanted to keep it "as clean as possible", but the Ukrainian has the opposite strategy - again, its understandable from their strategic position, but it shows the same time how they just instrumentalise human suffering for the political-military goals.
 
This is the sort of thing that could make one into a conspiracy theorist. ("My dear lad, don't you know, only the poor conspire")

Ukrainian journalist Daria Kaleniuk works for the WEF

https://www.weforum.org/people/daria-kaleniuk

This is her "confronting" Boris Johnson earlier this week.

I don't know if Angela has a point or not if you're a troll or an American who is going for the "hillbilly" existence, I don't really care.


What I find remarkable is that you are playing with a kind of ideology that has subversive aims when it comes to liberal democracy. Those thoughts can just as much come from a left-wing radical as from a right-wing radical. You have that freedom as far as I'm concerned.


At the same time, I am undeterred when it comes to Putin's Russia. In my view it comes over with a kind of regime such as we have known in Franco's in Spain. But then of course in a completely different context, one based on Dugin's fourth political theory, with a revanchist agenda, with a ruthless aggressive line outwardly and a repressive inward line (all press freedom is now completely gone, protesters become rucksichtlos discharged, etc.).


I do not declare Western democracy a panacea. Here too we are dealing with hypocrisy etc etc. At the same time I notice a kind of self-hatred on the extreme flanks in the West. A self-loathing that you apparently like to stoke.


You can do that. At the same time, I have an unshakable awareness of the values ​​of liberal democracy. Again, not perfect, but certainly worth defending. Many in the West had lost sight of that for a while. Let the war in Ukraine be a wake up call, liberal democracy is worth defending. No matter how many doubts you think you can throw around...
 
Last edited:
You can do that. At the same time, I have an unshakable awareness of the values ​​of liberal democracy. Again, not perfect, but certainly worth defending. Many in the West had lost sight of that for a while. Let the war in Ukraine be a wake up call, liberal democracy is worth defending. No matter how many doubts you think you can throw around...

Just a small comment for that: Be careful as to where you look at. The threat for democracy might come from different directions and some might even disguise themselves as "upright democrats" which do everything they do, every move towards escalation, brainwashing and censorship only to "save Democracy". They are in charge, they got the control, they impose rules and pressure on the people, but talk as if they are helpless victims of a vicious attack on "Democracy", even if its just about their own personal agenda.
And this time with Russia, its just another step in the same direction. The Ukraine conflict being already instrumentalised and this tendency will increase over time.
 
You can do that. At the same time, I have an unshakable awareness of the values ​​of liberal democracy. Again, not perfect, but certainly worth defending. Many in the West had lost sight of that for a while. Let the war in Ukraine be a wake up call, liberal democracy is worth defending. No matter how many doubts you think you can throw around...

Having a wake up call isn't defending democracy.
You still allow Putin to profile himself as the victor.
Maintaining a no-fly zone above Ukraine to cripple Putin's invasion would be.
And if you don't have the reach to do it for the whole of Ukraine, do it west of the Dnjepr.
 
I don't know if Angela has a point or not if you're a troll or an American who is going for the "hillbilly" existence, I don't really care.


What I find remarkable is that you are playing with a kind of ideology that has subversive aims when it comes to liberal democracy. Those thoughts can just as much come from a left-wing radical as from a right-wing radical. You have that freedom as far as I'm concerned.


At the same time, I am undeterred when it comes to Putin's Russia. In my view it comes over with a kind of regime such as we have known Franco's in Spain. But then of course in a completely different context, one based on Dugin's fourth political theory, with a revanchist agenda, with a ruthless aggressive line outwardly and a repressive inward line (all press freedom is now completely gone, protesters become rucksichtlos discharged, etc.).


I do not declare Western democracy a panacea. Here too we are dealing with hypocrisy etc etc. At the same time I notice a kind of self-hatred on the extreme flanks in the West. A self-loathing that you apparently like to stoke.


You can do that. At the same time, I have an unshakable awareness of the values ​​of liberal democracy. Again, not perfect, but certainly worth defending. Many in the West had lost sight of that for a while. Let the war in Ukraine be a wake up call, liberal democracy is worth defending. No matter how many doubts you think you can throw around...

He's a troll.:unsure:
 
Having a wake up call isn't defending democracy.
You still allow Putin to profile himself as the victor.
Maintaining a no-fly zone above Ukraine to cripple Putin's invasion would be.
And if you don't have the reach to do it for the whole of Ukraine, do it west of the Dnjepr.

That's a declaration of war with Russia and if wouldn't lead to a complete escalation no sane individual should ever want between the Western alliance and Russia, it would in a best case scenario just lead to the Ukrainians never to agree to any peace and prolonging the war for many years to come. And the longer it goes, to more sure it becomes that there will be a Western : Russian escalation, which again, nobody should ever want because it would be the path to World War III and nuclear strikes.
 
I honestly think declaring a no-fly zone over ALL of Ukraine is worth the risk. We did it in the Middle East and downed Russian pilots as a result, and we didn't have a nuclear war.

In some ways, crashing Russia's economy in the hope a new government is put in place that will withdraw from Ukraine and become a responsible world partner is perhaps a bigger risk. The average Russian thinks their soldiers are on a humanitarian mission. What will they think of the West for destroying their economy? They will see it as an unprovoked attack because they don't know what their army is doing. Think Weimar Republic, for goodness sakes.

The West should focus on the war in Ukraine. Get the no fly zone in place fast. Get them the materiel and humanitarian aid they desperately need fast. Let contractors fly the freaking planes if need be to take out that column in the north and break the supply chains in the south. Bombard the Russian troops with leaflets, loudspeakers telling them they'll be unharmed if they just go home. In World War I the Russian Army just dropped their rifles and walked home. It could happen again if the Ukrainians show restraint.

Putin is not going to negotiate in good faith ever. He has wanted this since the end of the Soviet Union, playing the long game while crying victim, and he won't stop until he gets it. He has to lose militarily now, or we'll have to face him militarily later.
 
The law of unintended consequences: Finnish public opinion swings toward seeking admission to NATO.
 
Having a wake up call isn't defending democracy.
You still allow Putin to profile himself as the victor.
Maintaining a no-fly zone above Ukraine to cripple Putin's invasion would be.
And if you don't have the reach to do it for the whole of Ukraine, do it west of the Dnjepr.

I hope it's a wake up call for people to be aware that democracy is never a given fact....may be some have forgotten that bicicleur.

And I'm against direct intervention because that would mean ww3.

Putin can only reach a Pyrrhus victory.
 
Just a small comment for that: Be careful as to where you look at. The threat for democracy might come from different directions and some might even disguise themselves as "upright democrats" which do everything they do, every move towards escalation, brainwashing and censorship only to "save Democracy". They are in charge, they got the control, they impose rules and pressure on the people, but talk as if they are helpless victims of a vicious attack on "Democracy", even if its just about their own personal agenda.
And this time with Russia, its just another step in the same direction. The Ukraine conflict being already instrumentalised and this tendency will increase over time.

I look very clear to the extreme right and left. That is the main direction. I don't share the suspicious side about censorship and brainwash you have. The best guarantee is still free press, checks and balances. And nothing is for granted.
 
I honestly think declaring a no-fly zone over ALL of Ukraine is worth the risk. We did it in the Middle East and downed Russian pilots as a result, and we didn't have a nuclear war.

In some ways, crashing Russia's economy in the hope a new government is put in place that will withdraw from Ukraine and become a responsible world partner is perhaps a bigger risk. The average Russian thinks their soldiers are on a humanitarian mission. What will they think of the West for destroying their economy? They will see it as an unprovoked attack because they don't know what their army is doing. Think Weimar Republic, for goodness sakes.

The West should focus on the war in Ukraine. Get the no fly zone in place fast. Get them the materiel and humanitarian aid they desperately need fast. Let contractors fly the freaking planes if need be to take out that column in the north and break the supply chains in the south. Bombard the Russian troops with leaflets, loudspeakers telling them they'll be unharmed if they just go home. In World War I the Russian Army just dropped their rifles and walked home. It could happen again if the Ukrainians show restraint.

Putin is not going to negotiate in good faith ever. He has wanted this since the end of the Soviet Union, playing the long game while crying victim, and he won't stop until he gets it. He has to lose militarily now, or we'll have to face him militarily later.

What I have seen, and heard is that the (ordinary) Russian soldiers had mainly the idea that they went for an exercise, and they are far from motivated. The Russians ultimately rely on heavy artillery.
 
Having a wake up call isn't defending democracy.
You still allow Putin to profile himself as the victor.
Maintaining a no-fly zone above Ukraine to cripple Putin's invasion would be.
And if you don't have the reach to do it for the whole of Ukraine, do it west of the Dnjepr.

Besides that Putin can only reach a Pyrrhic victory.
 
Besides that Putin can only reach a Pyrrhic victory.

In Russia it will be a victory and he'll stay in power for more decades to come, the regime will continue to be a threat.
I believe maintaining a no-fly zone may tilt the war and prevent Putin from installing a puppet regime in Ukraine.

Never since the fall of the Berlin wall there has been such a big occasion to help a country on it's path to democracy and at the same time give a blow to a totalitarian regime threatening democracy and the west.
The last 9 days Ukraine already gave a serious blow to Putin's self-confidence and now is the moment to strike.
 
It became obvious to me, they don't just push all Ukrainian males from 18-60 into military service, they also keep them as hostages. And the Western media just report about the men "staying back to fight". Really? As if 100 % of the Ukrainian men would be willing to sacrifice themselves for the Selenski regime and dying as cannon fodder! Nobody seems to care about all those people being pressed into service, many against their will. There were already chaotic scenes on the borders and the women won't tellt he truth, because they are afraid about what might happen to their husbands and sons. The Western "free press" doesn't report those incidents and situation properly at all, they only portray Ukrainian men as willing to fight and die for that regime. This kind of propaganda, by the leftist media in the West, how everything being phased within hours and no dissenting voices allowed any more, is quite telling about the state of our media and democracy.

Similarly, the Ukrainian regime deliberately delays the evacuation of civilians, so they can use them as human shields and delay the Russian attack. They play on time, to re-enforce their positions, regroup their military units and wait for weapons and an escalation which might bring Western powers into the war. This kind of dirty war is obviously the only military strategy they can apply to win, if they are unwilling to accept any political compromise with Russia, which seems to be the case. But it just shows how both sides don't care for the civilian lifes and structures, the Ukrainians even less, because the Russians wanted to keep it "as clean as possible", but the Ukrainian has the opposite strategy - again, its understandable from their strategic position, but it shows the same time how they just instrumentalise human suffering for the political-military goals.

"That kind of dirty war" that you mention reminds me of the resistance of the Polish army in 1939, when they retreated to the east trying to resist and wait for help from the West... until the Soviet Union stabbed them in the back... .
 
"That kind of dirty war" that you mention reminds me of the resistance of the Polish army in 1939, when they retreated to the east trying to resist and wait for help from the West... until the Soviet Union stabbed them in the back... .

The Ukrainian army uses civilians as human shields and tries to use all the cities as their main strongholds, so that they can hide better and the Russians have to do maximal damage to the people and infrastructure. I can understand why they do it, but Selenski is obviously a gambler who doesn't care as long as he sees a chance to ruin Russia and make himself a hero. A lot of cities did surrender during WWII simply to save them from utter destruction.

If regular and irregular forces, which are not recognisable as combatants, hide in the urban structures, of course, any reasonable army leader would bomb the whole city to the ground before letting his boys go in. The Ukrainian leadership wants to maximise the damage and "crimes" of the Russians, so that they can provoke incidents or an intervention from the West.
That's more like dirty partisan wars, which deliberately calculated for retaliation on civilians, to get the public support against the occupants. We're already heading towards this, because there being mobs rounding up pro-Russian Ukrainians, mistreating Russians and even publishing the material, everything to stir up more brutality. Like I said, its a kind of dirty war only comparable to what the partisans especially in Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union did, if using WWII. It has little to nothing to do with e.g. the Polish strategy before their capitulation.

If snipers shoot from windows of an appartment block and civilians throw Molotov cocktails from their cars and Russian soldiers get mistreated and tortured, the obvious consequence will be just hate and retaliation. Since the Ukrainian leadership promoted such behaviour and actions from the first day, they planned to fight the Russians with that kind of dirty tactics from the start. Its the strategy the Selenski regime adopted. If you put civilians deliberately in the line of fire, they have to get hit, even if the other side tries to prevent it. And from a certain point on, they won't care any more, because there will be a vicious cycle of hate from both sides. Again, its the tactic the Selenski regime has chosen to get maximal popular support both from the Ukrainians and the outside world. But its a dirty war and strategy, no doubt about that. And they do it because they gamble for getting Russia to its knees, which is obviously what especially the USA and UK want too.
That's also, to repeat it once more, why Germany, France and several other nations, which are not that trigger-happy, tried to keep things down and not supporting that obvious war course of the Ukrainian leadership.

Again, Russia made the big wrong step to attack all of Ukraine, but the sanctions would have been imposed even if they would have just defended the East anyway, so they went all-in. I don't know in detail how the negotiations were in the past, so I can't say for sure who is to blame primarily for all these peace talks to fail, but its quite obvious that both sides didn't do enough for peace in the last 8 years. And in the last months the Selenski regime was having a straight war course.
Why should the world risk a nuclear war for such a gambler who obviously doesn't care for the risks his people or the world are taking?
That would be really, really regrettable, if the defense of such a regime would cause World War 3.
 
The Ukrainian army uses civilians as human shields and tries to use all the cities as their main strongholds, so that they can hide better and the Russians have to do maximal damage to the people and infrastructure. I can understand why they do it, but Selenski is obviously a gambler who doesn't care as long as he sees a chance to ruin Russia and make himself a hero. A lot of cities did surrender during WWII simply to save them from utter destruction.

If regular and irregular forces, which are not recognisable as combatants, hide in the urban structures, of course, any reasonable army leader would bomb the whole city to the ground before letting his boys go in. The Ukrainian leadership wants to maximise the damage and "crimes" of the Russians, so that they can provoke incidents or an intervention from the West.
That's more like dirty partisan wars, which deliberately calculated for retaliation on civilians, to get the public support against the occupants. We're already heading towards this, because there being mobs rounding up pro-Russian Ukrainians, mistreating Russians and even publishing the material, everything to stir up more brutality. Like I said, its a kind of dirty war only comparable to what the partisans especially in Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union did, if using WWII. It has little to nothing to do with e.g. the Polish strategy before their capitulation.

If snipers shoot from windows of an appartment block and civilians throw Molotov cocktails from their cars and Russian soldiers get mistreated and tortured, the obvious consequence will be just hate and retaliation. Since the Ukrainian leadership promoted such behaviour and actions from the first day, they planned to fight the Russians with that kind of dirty tactics from the start. Its the strategy the Selenski regime adopted. If you put civilians deliberately in the line of fire, they have to get hit, even if the other side tries to prevent it. And from a certain point on, they won't care any more, because there will be a vicious cycle of hate from both sides. Again, its the tactic the Selenski regime has chosen to get maximal popular support both from the Ukrainians and the outside world. But its a dirty war and strategy, no doubt about that. And they do it because they gamble for getting Russia to its knees, which is obviously what especially the USA and UK want too.
That's also, to repeat it once more, why Germany, France and several other nations, which are not that trigger-happy, tried to keep things down and not supporting that obvious war course of the Ukrainian leadership.

Again, Russia made the big wrong step to attack all of Ukraine, but the sanctions would have been imposed even if they would have just defended the East anyway, so they went all-in. I don't know in detail how the negotiations were in the past, so I can't say for sure who is to blame primarily for all these peace talks to fail, but its quite obvious that both sides didn't do enough for peace in the last 8 years. And in the last months the Selenski regime was having a straight war course.
Why should the world risk a nuclear war for such a gambler who obviously doesn't care for the risks his people or the world are taking?
That would be really, really regrettable, if the defense of such a regime would cause World War 3.

Keep this biased nonsense for that zoo at Apricity.
 
Keep this biased nonsense for that zoo at Apricity.

So, that's his home base? Why am I not surprised?

If not an ethnic Russian than a stooge; all of his posts could have come right from state news services in Russia.

He must be doing it merely to annoy. Clearly, he is convincing no one here because it is obvious that he's not reasoning logically or honestly. Having different opinions is one thing; these are serious matters with no easy answers. What we don't need is obvious propaganda.

I cannot fathom why people are engaging him.

Never feed the t-rolls!
 
So, that's his home base? Why am I not surprised?

If not an ethnic Russian than a stooge; all of his posts could have come right from state news services in Russia.

He must be doing it merely to annoy. Clearly, he is convincing no one here because it is obvious that he's not reasoning logically or honestly. Having different opinions is one thing; these are serious matters with no easy answers. What we don't need is obvious propaganda.

I cannot fathom why people are engaging him.

Never feed the t-rolls!

Most of those idiots who engage in pro-Russian (often anti-semitic) conspiracy theories are usually migrants from Eastern Europe who live in the "evil" West. I have yet to see a single German (or an Italian, Iberian etc.) that was vehemently pro-Russia. Even the neo-Nazi ethnic Germans (or the original ones) don't support them.

Why did they migrate to the so called "ZOG" West in the first place? Why don't they go live in Russia?
 
Keep this biased nonsense for that zoo at Apricity.
What exactly is nonsense of what I wrote?
So everybody which disagrees is a troll and what not, but people which demand a "No-fly zone" and want NATO to start shooting down Russian jets are reasonable?
To risk a nuclear war for a regime which doesn?t take negotiations seriously and wants to escalate a war on the back of its own people is the unbiased truth?
I just hope that this kind of warmongering never makes it among the NATO decision makers, it would be utterly disastrous. They promised they won't, I just hope they keep at least that promise, because regardless of what many of you say now, you might regret it if they don't.
 

This thread has been viewed 317306 times.

Back
Top