Y-DNA haplogroups of Greeks by region of origin



Well i read all exept 2 (i could not open PDF)

what you want to say? that R1b moved from Crete to North east Italy?
or enetocracy? and what about Roman times and Inner greek R1b?

all can explained easily, especially J,
 
That's the Martinez et al. 2007 study I mentioned. This brings the total of samples for Crete to 504. The frequencies are those indicated in the table.

ok

BTW, why do you not split north italy into north west and north east , north west being franco bias and north east germanic bias.

also what about others natios as well IF there is a degree of historical differentual data on people. I would like to see the difference between the catalan and castilian people in Spain as a must

also, if you noticed, the last link has lots of information ...........just hover over black text , it will open the information.
 
That's an assumption you are not allowed to make. Why place them in South Greece when they could be Central Greece or the islands ?
You are right but the 76 samples fit better in the south that's why I classified them there...


All right. I suppose that the main issue was that you took Anatolian Iona as part of Greeice, while I classified those results under Turkey.

But I like your division for the other regions, so I will use it for the Y-DNA frequency tables on Eupedia.
Offcourse I included Ionian GREEKS with the rest of Greeks, why wouldn't I...it's like the case of Jews who are included under Ashkenazi and Shephardi allthough their ancestors lived in different countries 100 years ago...Anatolian Greeks seem closer to Greeks than to Anatolian Turks (because there is not ANY central Asian lineage detected in Ionians and E1b1b rises to simillar frequencies with other Greeks) while Turks from the same region (they call it Aegean region) have a lot of N + Q + R1b-M73 (5/30 = 16.7%) and only 3.3% E-V13.
Whould you really classify Ashkenazi Jews under Germany because they happened to live there 100 years ago and spoke German or Yiddish (a German/Slavic/Hebrew mix)?
 
Well i read all exept 2 (i could not open PDF)

what you want to say? that R1b moved from Crete to North east Italy?
or enetocracy? and what about Roman times and Inner greek R1b?

all can explained easily, especially J,

no , I wanted to say that R1b and J2 in crete are not "greek " but NE itlay, meaning , by just saying R!b everyone thinks its identical to R1b on the greek mainland , same with J2
 
That's an assumption you are not allowed to make. Why place them in South Greece when they could be Central Greece or the islands ?
You are right but the 76 samples fit better in the south that's why I classified them there...


All right. I suppose that the main issue was that you took Anatolian Iona as part of Greeice, while I classified those results under Turkey.

But I like your division for the other regions, so I will use it for the Y-DNA frequency tables on Eupedia.
Offcourse I included Ionian GREEKS with the rest of Greeks, why wouldn't I...it's like the case of Jews who are included under Ashkenazi and Shephardi allthough their ancestors lived in different countries 100 years ago...Anatolian Greeks seem closer to Greeks than to Anatolian Turks (because there is not ANY central Asian lineage detected in Ionians and E1b1b rises to simillar frequencies with other Greeks) while Turks from the same region (they call it Aegean region) have a lot of N + Q + R1b-M73 (5/30 = 16.7%) and only 3.3% E-V13.
Whould you really classify Ashkenazi Jews under Germany because they happened to live there 100 years ago and spoke German or Yiddish (a German/Slavic/Hebrew mix)?
 
no , I wanted to say that R1b and J2 in crete are not "greek " but NE itlay, meaning , by just saying R!b everyone thinks its identical to R1b on the greek mainland , same with J2

hahaha infact J2 is not NE Italian,
we find it also in Makedonia, the Bottiaians same J from Crete we find in Greek makedonia and is far ancient, before the begining of Makedonians,
and in Syrria due to colonization by Minoans,
That J2 in crete makedonia and rest of Greeks which also can be found in Pontic Greeks (not same but very close) IS THE PROVE OF THE HATTIANS the pelasgians, the Hath-Cretans or Eteo-cretans

and indeed that R1b you talk about exist in Makedonia Greece,
while the Chania R1b is different,

remember that Crete had enetocracy and that allows the existance of some venetic,
but that R1b exist also in Northern Greece,
a possible colonization from venice is accepted to the small numbers that exist every where venice occupied Greek lands, possibly exist and not found and in some other areas like 7 ionic Islands or some Aegean,
Remember that crete was given to Monferat who sold them to others and Kept thessaloniki
so some families, could moved there, as in many other areas,
the ones that live in plateau are typical,
I like crete very much and have friends there,
with a sharp eye you can find them easy

a more search to Enetic places could find some more places with that R1b, but small numbers, remember that Venice and Genouates were half accepted in the begining, half of them left, but half of them stayed,

better read again about Pelasgians, and Hattians, a non IE caucasoid (J)
 
hahaha infact J2 is not NE Italian,
we find also in Makedonia, the Bottiaians same J from Crete we find in Greek makedonia and is far ancient, before the begining of Makedonians,
and in Syrria due to colonization by Minoans,

hahahaha I know , all the article says that the J2 and R!b is closer to the NE italy marker than the Balkan markers for crete.
LOL.
Maybe all the writers of the articles are idiots
 
hahahaha I know , all the article says that the J2 and R!b is closer to the NE italy marker than the Balkan markers for crete.
LOL.
Maybe all the writers of the articles are idiots
Actually mainland Greeks, Aegeans and Cretans share most of J2 sub-clades (like J2a4b, J2a4b1, J2a4h1a, J2b1, J2b2) but differ in percentages... Crete is an island so it is expected to be somewhat different than the Greek mainstream when it comes to frequencies of haplogroups (Crete has it's own J2a sub-clade for example which rises to 7-8%).
But Cretan R1b1a2 is not that different than that of other Greeks.
Greeks / Cretans
R1b-M173 (total) : 17 % / 17 %
R1b1* : - / 0.5 %
R1b1a2-M269 : 2 % / 3 %
R1b1a2a-L23 : 11 % / 7 %
R1b1a2a1a2a-U152 : 4 % / 6.5 %
 
Actually mainland Greeks, Aegeans and Cretans share most of J2 sub-clades (like J2a4b, J2a4b1, J2a4h1a, J2b1, J2b2) but differ in percentages... Crete is an island so it is expected to be somewhat different than the Greek mainstream when it comes to frequencies of haplogroups (Crete has it's own J2a sub-clade for example which rises to 7-8%).
But Cretan R1b1a2 is not that different than that of other Greeks.
Greeks / Cretans
R1b-M173 (total) : 17 % / 17 %
R1b1* : - / 0.5 %
R1b1a2-M269 : 2 % / 3 %
R1b1a2a-L23 : 11 % / 7 %
R1b1a2a1a2a-U152 : 4 % / 6.5 %

yes zanipolo speaks about the red hair of lasithi plateu which share a common R1b marker with North and west of Venice area,

infact it is interesting that the coonections of that R1b some authors make it connection of J2 !!!!!!!
 
Actually mainland Greeks, Aegeans and Cretans share most of J2 sub-clades (like J2a4b, J2a4b1, J2a4h1a, J2b1, J2b2) but differ in percentages... Crete is an island so it is expected to be somewhat different than the Greek mainstream when it comes to frequencies of haplogroups (Crete has it's own J2a sub-clade for example which rises to 7-8%).
But Cretan R1b1a2 is not that different than that of other Greeks.
Greeks / Cretans
R1b-M173 (total) : 17 % / 17 %
R1b1* : - / 0.5 %
R1b1a2-M269 : 2 % / 3 %
R1b1a2a-L23 : 11 % / 7 %
R1b1a2a1a2a-U152 : 4 % / 6.5 %

if what you say is correct , then the U152 marker must have come from the alpine area to crete as this represent the celtic marker.
 
Actually mainland Greeks, Aegeans and Cretans share most of J2 sub-clades (like J2a4b, J2a4b1, J2a4h1a, J2b1, J2b2) but differ in percentages... Crete is an island so it is expected to be somewhat different than the Greek mainstream when it comes to frequencies of haplogroups (Crete has it's own J2a sub-clade for example which rises to 7-8%).
But Cretan R1b1a2 is not that different than that of other Greeks.
Greeks / Cretans
R1b-M173 (total) : 17 % / 17 %
R1b1* : - / 0.5 %
R1b1a2-M269 : 2 % / 3 %
R1b1a2a-L23 : 11 % / 7 %
R1b1a2a1a2a-U152 : 4 % / 6.5 %


since you did not mention the ionion greeks, ( corfu, ithaca, zachanthos etc etc ) are they or do they have different markers?

as you state

Eastern Greeks (Aegean islands & Ionia) (158 samples)
I : 11.4
R1a : 7.6
R1b : 22.8
E1b : 20.3
G2 : 8.2
J2 : 19.6
J1 : 5.1
LT : 3.2
* : 1.9

joining aegean and ionion together.............unless my geography is wrong , I was taught the aegean is on the east of the greek mainland and the ionion is on the west of the mainland.
 
R1b-U152 is also associated with Romans who I think brought this linage in Greece, allthough some originally Celtic influence might have occured
 
since you did not mention the ionion greeks, ( corfu, ithaca, zachanthos etc etc ) are they or do they have different markers?

as you state

Eastern Greeks (Aegean islands & Ionia) (158 samples)
I : 11.4
R1a : 7.6
R1b : 22.8
E1b : 20.3
G2 : 8.2
J2 : 19.6
J1 : 5.1
LT : 3.2
* : 1.9

joining aegean and ionion together.............unless my geography is wrong , I was taught the aegean is on hte east of the greek mainland and the ionion is on the west of the mainland.
Ionion pelagos(named after Io) is in the west but Ionia region (named after Ionians) is in the Aegean shores of Asia Minor that's why I classified them under a broad Eastern Greek region
 
since you did not mention the ionion greeks, ( corfu, ithaca, zachanthos etc etc ) are they or do they have different markers?

as you state

Eastern Greeks (Aegean islands & Ionia) (158 samples)
I : 11.4
R1a : 7.6
R1b : 22.8
E1b : 20.3
G2 : 8.2
J2 : 19.6
J1 : 5.1
LT : 3.2
* : 1.9

joining aegean and ionion together.............unless my geography is wrong , I was taught the aegean is on hte east of the greek mainland and the ionion is on the west of the mainland.

hahahahaha

that is the mistake that i see many times done by many,

Ionic Islands is the west Islands,
Ionian is the minor asian area,
 
hahahahaha

that is the mistake that i see many times done by many,

Ionic Islands is the west Islands,
Ionian is the minor asian area,

hmmm ok, then where is the ionion sea, is it not on the italian side?
 
Ionion pelagos(named after Io) is in the west but Ionia region (named after Ionians) is in the Aegean shores of Asia Minor that's why I classified them under a broad Eastern Greek region

ok, so do you have data for the greek islands between Italy and greece ?
 
That's the Martinez et al. 2007 study I mentioned. This brings the total of samples for Crete to 504. The frequencies are those indicated in the table.
I used King's data about Cretans because it was the largest and most refined (in sub-clades typed) paper allthough I Knew of the other papers too. I also wanted regions to be equally represented and if I included 504 Cretans my all-Greek frequencies would be distorted towards Cretan Y-DNA.
BTW when all 504 samples are counted the outcome is :
I : 12.4
R1a : 9.1
R1b : 15.3
G2 : 8.5
E1b1b : 10.9
J2 : 34.2
J1 : 4.8
LT : 4.4
* : 0.8
which is again a little different than your table...You make it seem as Cretans have 30% of what you call ''European'' haplogroups while they have around 37% the same way you make Greek ''European'' Y-DNA 39% while it is 43%. I detect a little bias towards Greeks, you even classified Smyrnians under Turks for God's shake...
 
In fact Smyrnians (ancient Smyrna being a small Aeolian city that was included in Ionian dodecapolis) seem closer to Aeolian Mytilene-Lesbos in E1b1b and J2a/J2b frequencies while Fokaia (which was a big Ionian city from the begining) seems closer to Ionian Chios for this haplogroups but Smyrnians have propably mixxed with Ionians and natives later so their R1b1a2 grew larger and their R1a1a was reduced...
 
One of the studies you quoted links Cretans with mainland Greeks first, than with Cypriot Greeks, than with Anatolian Turks and lastly with other Balkanians (the frequencies of a certain gene decline from 5.6% in Cretans/ to 3.4% in mainland Greeks/ to 2.?% in Cypriot Greeks/ to 1.5% in Anatolian Turks (from west Asia Minor)/ to 0% in Bulgarians...
 

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